User talk:Louise/Archive 1

Hi

Don't add the __NOTOC__ to NPC pages when copypasting if a table of contents isn't generated. We usually want the table of contents if one is generated for the page on NPCs anyways.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:55, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi again! Place the {{stub}} tag at the top of the page (above the NPC infobox). Happy editing and creating the NPC pages :)--Relyk ~ talk < 04:53, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

You seem to be the hylek expert

Do you have any idea which tribe Big Mayana might belong to? Or Half-Baked Komali for that matter... --—Santax (talk · contribs) 03:22, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Wow

Have you been making copious notes on your travels or something? That amount of npc info is amazing! One thing, though - if the standard stub template is used, it generally goes before everything else. The usage notes on Template:Stub say not to use it on a new page or one that is obviously missing lots of info. I'm not sure why, because that would generate a list of incomplete pages (at least, I assumed so - can't find a "has stub" at Special:SpecialPages,) but it is apparently a no-no.

Oh, and please note that double quoutes ("like this") and two single quotes (''like this'') are totally different things and will lead to red links (and unwanted italics) if used incorrectly. I know they look the same on the finished page, but they are treated as totally separate entities.

But still, great work on bringing all of those neglected characters to the wiki! — snograt 08:48, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

^ –Santax (talk · contribs) 09:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Btw, try to set the | organization = parameter if an NPC belongs to an organisation such as the Blood Legion or Vigil. It automatically puts them in the appropriate category, and then we can dynamically generate a list of, say, Vigil NPC pages. But yeah, you're doing amazing work. –Santax (talk · contribs) 09:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

If you come across something like Duskrend Overlook, that is named in-game but has no article yet, you can link it anyways, even if you have no intent on creating the page yourself. Redlinks are generally speaking not bad, and just indicate an area for expansion. You don't need to go back and correct anything either. This is just for future reference. P.S. thumbs up and all that. Psycho Robot (talk) 20:05, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Lujja?

Can you please recheck whether it is Lujja or Iujja, because I just moved it to Peacemaker Lujja after your last edit (Changing the L to an I), but now I'm not so sure.

Also, HI! this is your very own talk page. You are allowed to talk to people on it! :D

Carry on ;) — snograt 18:36, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, i know, i'm just never taking the time to respond. Also, i don't know how to rename pages, so that would be helpful ;p. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Louise (talk • contribs).

It's hard to find because wikis use MOVE rather than RENAME. If I remember right, using the old, default wiki skin there is a move tab, or, if you're on the new, snazzy one, it's hidden under an arrow to the left of the search box. Of course, I could be totally wrong because I use a set of tools that change the layout. — snograt 19:13, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, if you're almost but not quite certain something is misspelled, like Agent Kilnx, you can suggest a move with a {{move}} tag. You really hate red links, don't you? Join the club :) — snograt 20:03, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Awesome, took me years to learn that! Usually a good idea to put a delete tag on the misspelled page, unless it's useful for regularly misspelled words. If I had a barnstar, I'd give you one, but I don't cos we're not that wiki. — snograt 20:11, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I didn't even realized that. I'll take the star tough. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Louise (talk • contribs).

Something that may interest you

The Living World WikiProject is designed to keep track of all the minutiae of LW releases, which is something that yourself and Anzenketh both seem to have been doing independently (and diligently). Why not pool our resources, eh? :) Oh, and great work, as ever! –Santax (talk · contribs) 00:05, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Organizations

Hey there, when creating monster pages, such as Colocal Queen remove the organization from their infobox since creatures don't usually (or ever) have an organization. Good job so far! --Ventriloquist (talk) 12:04, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

critter edits

Is there any way you could save up the location data and make one edit per zone? Instead of one per area? You've made 34 consecutive edits to Rat since yesterday, and while it doesn't really hurt anything, it is a bit excessive. —Dr Ishmael 18:40, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Crash Site #2

When linking to that, use [[Crash Site 2|Crash Site #2]]. Because of how '#' works within URLs, we can't use it in article titles, and linking to [[Crash Site #2]] actually links to Crash Site and looks for an anchor named "2". —Dr Ishmael 18:37, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

skill changes

Those haven't happened yet, don't update the articles until they're actually released. —Dr Ishmael 11:54, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

You can keep rough drafts in your userspace that you can copypaste to the articles once they are released :)--Relyk ~ talk < 16:04, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

NPC images

Would it be possible for you to redo those images? Specifically, crop them to the NPC, and de-select the NPC so there's no green ring or nameplate showing. That would be consistent with the majority of our other NPC images.

Thanks for all your work on these NPCs! Also, don't be scared to reply to us here, especially if you have questions about anything. We don't bite (except for Snograt, watch out for him). :) —Dr Ishmael 12:16, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Ish, I don't think those are Louise's original images at all. For example, File:Romperoo.jpg is a screenshot from this thread, and File:Jarngrimm.jpg is a lower-quality-and-smaller-resolution of a file already on the wiki, so I'm assuming (s)he just saved the image without zooming in on it. With that being said, Louise really can't do anything about it; I guess lower-quality is better than no-quality? --Ventriloquist 12:26, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

I see. They could still be cropped, though. And Louise, if you're going to copy an existing image, you can tell the infobox to use that existing image instead of uploading a copy: I edited Jarngrimm just now so you can see how it's done. —Dr Ishmael 12:35, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

And another tip; don't use fan-created images (paintings, images done in PS or other) for actual NPC images. I deleted the file you used on Havroun Svena because you both have to ask for permission from the author (or creator in this case) to use it and we don't use non-game images for any wiki documentation, including images for NPCs, location etc (exception obviously being ANet's images for lore-based content). --Ventriloquist 12:39, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Somewhat related here - there's no need to add a | name = parameter to NPC infoboxes if the page name is the actual NPC name. That's only needed if the page name is something like Bob Bobson (Wayfarer Foothills) and you need to set the infobox name to | name = Bob Bobson. —Dr Ishmael 18:55, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I get what you were doing now: for Captain Bob Bobson you were setting | name = Bob Bobson. Well, that's not needed either - if the NPC's title is part of their nameplate (the name that appears over their head in-game), then that is actually their name as far as the game is concerned. —Dr Ishmael 18:57, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm just doing this to pages like Head Engineer Grotall Steelspear to get their status out of the way, i just think it looks more smoother like that.

Yeah, I see what you were trying to do. Santax experimented with this a bit, but it was mostly with lore pages and lore characters with titles who didn't really reflect the characters' backgrounds in-game. I agree it looks smoother, especially on mouthful character names such as "Captain Bob Bobson the Lost". Also, sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~) --Ventriloquist 19:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I posted a follow-up comment stating that I realized what you're doing, but apparently it got lost in an edit conflict.

Anyway, the problem is that the name parameter determines what populates the Has canonical name property for the page. This is going to affect things like Template:Vendor list, where the vendor's name is queried from that property. It'll still link to the right place, but it might confuse readers when the link and the page they go to don't say the same thing. —Dr Ishmael 19:10, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Actually, your comment was deleted, not lost in an edit conflict. I restored it. --Cali (talk) 05:25, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I’m not sure if such edits are really good. The name should usually be the exact same name as it appears in-game. So I’m not sure if we should take out the “Lieutenant” there. poke | talk 11:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

NPC names

In repsonse to your edits on Crusader Aliyana and Agent Garvan: I have reverted the edits where you changed the names of these NPCs in the infobox to their name without titles. I have done this as per Guild_Wars_2_Wiki_talk:NPC_formatting#NPC_infobox_name:_with_or_without_title.3F. ~ Sanna 17:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

stubs

When creating a stub page, could you please put the stub template before the description text? It should appear at the top of the page. —Dr Ishmael 18:06, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Alright, will do. Louise 23:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits

I'm not sure why you thought it was a good idea to add all those unnecessary parameters. Icons, maps, professions and status is largely unused for generic NPCs and should not be added if unnecessary. Also, changing the name from the original to the shortened form might cause confusion when dealing with merchants, as discussed before. I'm not sure what to do with all of those edits now. --Ventriloquist 08:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Well i don't see how it would affect anything since i only change the name in the NPC box, so if i would type Scholar Penta, i would still get the same result. Also, all the NPCs since the Silverwastes were introduced has this, so i decided to do it to the others since i have nothing to do. Louise 03:26, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

It affects them when they're linked to an item. For example, Golem in a Box no longer states Salvage Specialist Roj as its vendor, but simply "Roj." While it might seem harmless, it - like Dr Ishmael said already - might cause confusion, especially when dealing with longer names. Following an existing example is encouraged, but copying its information is situational, no NPC has to have maps, professions etc. --Ventriloquist 08:32, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

If i do only non-merchant NPCs, is it okay? Louise 03:34, 5 January (UTC)

Are you referring to just the name parameter or everything you've added? I guess it's fine when added to generic NPCs, but everything but the name parameter is largely unnecessary. Ventriloquist 08:40, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm just reducing the name in the NPC box such as Tactician Footi to Footi. I just think it looks better like that. Since it causes problem with merchants, i won't touch those and feel free to undo the ones i may have done before. Louise 03:42, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

That's not what the name parameter is for. The parameter is only required if the page name doesn't match the NPC name, not to shorten the name because you think it looks better.--Relyk ~ talk < 09:54, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Ventriloquist and Relyk are both correct. Including unused parameters in a template is pointless and can sometimes cause a template to break; the name parameter should only be used to correct a pagename that doesn't match the NPC's in-game name. We do not give the NPCs "nicknames" or otherwise shorten the name to make it "look better," we only use the in-game names. —Dr Ishmael 13:17, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I ran a bot to revert all of these edits again. —Dr Ishmael 14:04, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

By a remarkable coincidence, a user, 207.96.142.72, has started doing exactly the same thing as you were doing Louise. As Mr Ollivander said, "Curious". --Spionida (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry guys, i realized my mistake and i'll stop changing the names. I guess that the hatred of long titles before names is just in my nature. Louise 16:20, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

If we were to do anything to "fix" this "problem", then it would be something like changing the font or size of the font used in all infobox headers - because NPCs aren't the only things with long names.

Also, your last edit (changing the time in your signature) seems odd - are you not using four tildes ~~~~ to automatically generate your signature? —Dr Ishmael 16:22, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I would like to help but i'm not the most experienced wikia contributor around here. I only know how to do NPC box and thats pretty much it. ---- Louise 16:28, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Guys, you're all mugs and seemed to have missed that Louise was editing via [[Form:NPC infobox]]... which dumps parameters upon save. whoops :p

The form shouldn't exist imo, so I've removed the "edit with form" tab that was appearing beside the edit button.. -Chieftain Alex 18:56, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Differents cultures

I added the remaining hylek tribes in the Category:Hylek culture and i was wondering, what goes into theses? For example, does the quaggan villages count as quaggan culture or kraals as ogre culture? ---- Louise 17:23, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Guts

Before I revert that move, could you explain why you moved it from having literal double-quotes (") to having double single-quotes ('')? —Dr Ishmael 04:49, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't know really, i got lost into the moving name thingy since there's two Legionnaire Guts Render page, so you can do what you want with it. Louise 04:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I only see the one page that you moved, and a wiki search for Gutrender only returns that result. I'm certain the game wouldn't use double single-quotes, though, so I moved it back. —Dr Ishmael 05:17, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry about that, i don't know if i can but we should delete the other one to avoid any other confusion. Louise 05:22, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Landmarks

Just a heads up, I've renamed "Category:Landmark" to Category:Landmarks, and it is now automatically applied to pages with an area infobox with type = Landmark... so I'm removing any manually added categories. -Chieftain Alex 11:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh really? So it adds up all the landmarks on the wiki? Great! Thanks Alex. It'll be easier to find if people want to add onto them :) Louise 11:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

For some reason, some of the landmarks aren't showing up in the category. Don't know if it is just for me or what. Louise 11:08, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Pages have to filter through the job queue. I expect that they will turn up when that counter hits 0. -Chieftain Alex 11:10, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah ok, didn't know that. Thanks again for saving me the trouble even if i was almost done.. just kidding. Louise 11:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

:P Sorry! Remember, if it seems like you're doing the same edit to a bunch of pages, try and think if it could be A) added to a suitable template on the page instead, or B) added with a bot account (Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Bots. -Chieftain Alex 11:23, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Uh, what are templates? Louise 11:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Templates are anything written with {{ curly braces }} around them. e.g. Template:Area infobox is summoned at the top of each area page using {{Area infobox}}. Templates have talk pages like everything else, so if you want to request some addition, there would be the place to do it. -Chieftain Alex 11:32, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

But how would this change the way i edit pages? I mean, i use templates in the articles i modifies, i don't understand. I'm not an expert on all this lol. Louise 11:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Well I'm trying to say that two edits to add categories to 190 pages is easier than 190 individual ones. -Chieftain Alex 11:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah i get it now. Its just that it was the first category i created so far so i didn't know about that. I'll keep it in mind in the future. Louise 19:21, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

NPC images

Friendly reminder that you do not need to reupload an image of an NPC or anything else if it's already uploaded on the wiki. For example, if you want to reuse the image of an Ogre Brute, copy its file name (Ogre Brute.jpg), add it into the image parameter of the NPC you want it reused on, (for example Builder Gorkan) and add the image parameter into the infobox
image = Ogre Brute.jpg. This will reuse the image without having to reupload the image itself. It reduces duplicates, it's easier and preferred. --Ventriloquist 22:58, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Animals

Why on earth have you gone through removing several sub-types of animals and reclassifying them as "Animal"? Dolyaks are an example. It's pointless, you have removed a layer of functionality. --Spionida (talk) 12:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Well technically, the race of dolyak doesn't exist the same as a black cow is an animal. Louise 12:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Technically humans and charr are animals, but we distinguish between them. The division of some types has been done since the wiki started. Maybe a little discussion would have been an idea. --Spionida (talk) 18:17, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Dolyaks are like marmoxes. They are neutral mobs that don't have any subspecies. I can see why we made a page for skelks because they have many subspecies, for example, Alpine Skelk, Shadow Skelk etc. There are only one type of dolyak found in-game other than the named one. Louise 18:24, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

There's eight that I quickly counted. Again, if it's worked since around the wiki start, why not ask? --Spionida (talk) 18:43, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't know where you made up the eight sub-species of dolyaks, but there are only one type of dolyak and it is the Dolyak (NPC). All the other ones are named ones such as Kole and Titan. Louise 18:47, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Wrong word, sorry. There are at least eight named dolyaks, I really still can't see why you removed the classification. I have asked you why you did not discuss it. --Spionida (talk) 20:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I figured since the dolyak was pretty much the Shiverpeak counterpart of the Marmox, which is in the Animal category, it would fit in there. Louise 20:05, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

The game doesn't distinguish the NPCs as different species clearly, it's purely from the lore side. I don't really like the design choice in the infobox but that's how the wiki is set up.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:33, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Revert War

You're not supposed to constantly revert other's changes. But you seem to want a war. Hopefully someone will step in. They seem unwilling to do so, so far. --Spionida (talk) 00:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm not in a revert "war", I'm just fixing things that didn't needed to be fixed. Even Ventriloquist, one of the most prominent members of the wiki, listed the sharks as fish, and it has been so for a very long time. Louise 00:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

And Dolyaks were listed for a long time as dolyaks but your vision seemed to want to change them. If the long term users want to change sharks one way or the other then let them form a consensus. Otherwise we're both being silly. --Spionida (talk) 00:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

And us reverting constantly is a revert war, whatever you may think of it. --Spionida (talk) 00:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

If I can get confirmation that sharks are part of the slayer achievement, then sharks will 100% belong in the fish category. Also the Dolyak thing makes sense since Dolyaks count towards the Animal slayer achievement. Louise 00:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Louise. Hi Spionida. I blocked you both yesterday for just long enough that I figured this way that you might both realise the importance of not just blindly reverting the same two edits without discussing it first. Decide via the relevant Slayer achievements if you can, if not stick a request on a relevant talk page somewhere - possibly Category talk:Fishes - and agree the category with other folk, possibly via Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Requests for comment. That we've had a "shark" category since 2013 makes me think that it may just be possible that someone has previously checked, or they thought that the number of pages with "shark" in the title justified the subcategory, but we can still attempt to verify that. -Chieftain Alex 08:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Alex. I understand the reason, I just didn't see the usefulness of a shark sub-category but I see that you added it to the fish page, which was my main concern. Louise 12:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

It's worth saying that I don't see the utility of many, and I mean many, of the choices made in how the wiki is put together. But there should be a discussion. There ware quite a few subcategories that are partially used, some members in the parent category, others in the subcategory. I do see your point about what you consider to be the "correct way" of doing things, but others have their opinions too. And if something is the status quo, surely if you can't see why it's like it is, finding out may be an approach. I could go through many pages removing triplicated information on each page. There are so many, but others like it the way it is, so I leave them. Thanks. --Spionida (talk) 14:09, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

For the shark situation, I could put the fish for the race in the infobox and put a shark sub-category at the bottom of the page. It would yield the same result and it would look slightly better, in my opinion. Louise 15:39, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I think there may be a "behind the scenes" way of doing it inside the infobox code. If there is, it's probably better done that way, otherwise, manual category is fine. Possibly one of the coders will jump in. --Spionida (talk) 15:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, it shouldn't be that hard to do. Just swap shark for fish in the infobox and put Category:Sharks at the end. I can do it if no one has a problem with it. Louise 15:46, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I meant in the internal coding of the infobox - to use the "Shark" appropriately. I am sure similar has been done before. That's what that parameter should do, without adding extras. As I said, why not wait until a coder contributes to this thread. But if you want to... Personally I prefer the code to work as intended. It may well be for a wiki point of view, that Shark should be renamed. Again, if you feel stingily, do whatever you feel appropriate. It can always be changed if a "better" solution comes up. --Spionida (talk) 15:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

My sense of what was said by others was that the sharks' race was shark, a subcategory of fish, not a "race" of fish. I asked you politely to wait until a coder could comment, but you have reverted and made it that the sharks have both a category and subcategory. That's not generally how it's supposed to work, as far as I know. If the people outside our "argument" think that "Shark" is the appropriate race/category, why have you changed it back?? I definitely did not agree/suggest that changing the race was the way to go. You're taking one thing and doing another. Why? Consistently through the wiki, subcategories are "race", you seem to take exception to this. Should I reclassify all the [[:Category:Fishes]] as Category:Animals? No, why not? --Spionida (talk) 16:05, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

The thing was that the shark link that was in the infobox lead to the Shark (NPC) page, so i fixed that. If someone wants to fix it further, then they can go ahead. I myself posted a discussion on the Bestiary page to merge some of these pages since they were already part of another category, but no one has responded yet. Louise 16:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

That's why I raised the possibility of changing the Shark to Shark (NPC), above, that's the probable solution that has been used many times. I was just asking for an opinion from a coder. Why couldn't you wait for that opinion? It'll come fast enough. --Spionida (talk) 16:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I don't think it would fix anything. When we link something in the infobox, it's supposed to lead to another page. When they add the (NPC) suffixe after the name, it's often because there is an item which have the same name, like Sam and Sam (NPC). But in this case, There is nothing else called Shark in the game. Louise 16:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Spionida! Glad you could come to discuss this, which you didn't bother doing the first time around. Just in case you were confused, sharks are part of the fish race. I don't know why you're arguing this. Please stop being you and go away. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 17:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

You should stop with personal attacks and tone down your comments, or ban awaits you (again). – Valento ^msg 17:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi, Lustre. Thanks for coming to Louise's defence. I am sure he needed it. Attacking someone when they can't reply is a really good trick. So is lending your login to someone. But that's me being cynical. Still, it's been done before on this wiki, so maybe not so cynical. I am pleased to see another example of a brave Internet warrior. Keep up the good work. Oh, and by the way, I do know sharks are fish, I was trying to use a subcategory, something that seems to be not uncommon on this and other wikis. And, incidentally, that others thought would be OK/reasonable. Note to the admins - it's difficult not to reply, at least once to attacks. If you take exception to it, then so be it. --Spionida (talk) 20:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Nobody's perfect, but we ask that you try anyway. :) - Felix Omni 20:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Except sharks are a species of fish, not a race. So on shark pages, it needs to be Race: Fish. It was even more funny that you linked them all to the NPC shark, not the enemy model or category. You go ahead and keep defending your point, but you're wrong. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 20:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Louise, sorry, Lustre, for your completely unbiased input. --Spionida (talk) 21:25, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Louise

You're a cool guy, it's too bad others can't appreciate this and just let you do what you do. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 17:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks man, just doing my best to help the wiki. Louise 17:19, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

No one's "under appreciating" Louise. He got in an unfortunate revert war that is being sorted out. I appreciate the work Louise has done to the wiki, but I disagree about him handling this certain issue. Does that give me an excuse to insult him? No. I'm sure both participants meant no harm in their actions, as each just tried to edit the wiki as how they individually saw fit. So please, stop trying to incite a fight with your comments. —Ventriloquist 18:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Golems

Hello, you recently created Incomp Optics DEF-1250 and SCRAP 80-T. You locate them both where I know they are, and also in the Trader's Forum. I can't see them there. Possibly a copy/paste thing? Thanks. --Spionida (talk) 00:56, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. Louise 00:59, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Been there, done that, all too often.  :) --Spionida (talk) 01:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Character pictures

You should code them so they are side by side. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 14:38, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

I tried to, but I don't know how. :P Louise 18:26, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Looks like Spionida tried, but didn't succeed. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 14:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Alex fixed it, he's the best. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 18:55, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Alex, looks much better now. Louise 18:58, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Really sorry, I had no idea it had committed/saved. <blush> --Spionida (talk) 22:45, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Total Makeover Kit

You should totally put the new faces in while you've still got the opening to do so. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 02:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't have a Total Makeover Kit, and also, I don't do that sort of stuff on the wiki. Louise 2:50, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

You only do minor changes? No adding new content? You should branch out! --Lustre Of Havoc 話 03:59, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I added a bunch of NPC pages when I first joined the pages, but I mostly update already existing NPC pages and locations in PvE. Louise 11:35, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Charr's Triumph.

Hi, I moved the Help the Blood Legion thin out nuisances to Martyr's Woods, where it is now. The other two heart NPCs are definitely in Charr's Triumph. I know Paenula's heart is conducted mainly outside Charr's Triumph, but it seems conventional to put it in the heart NPC's area. Hope that's OK. I hope you don't mind me saying but if {{area hearts}} or similar hold the wrong hearts, then correcting the heart's location and refreshing the cache should update things. It took me a while to get that, especially the cache bit. --Spionida (talk) 02:16, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Sorry about the one about supporting the troops. I forgot that you could fight in the arena located in the Charr's Triumph, but the one in Adorea Lake should stay since you can contribute to this heartby capturing drakes and minotaurs. :) Louise 2:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the thing that I am trying to point out is that the convention seems to be that the heart is listed in the area where the heart NPC is listed, not in another or additional area. I know this seems wrong, I have thought so myself on the not infrequent times where an NPC is in one area and the whole of the heart's activity is in another. Still, I'll leave it up to others to reinforce this is they feel strongly enough about it, I don't. --Spionida (talk) 02:28, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, in some pages, such as the Incendio Templum, it has already been done, so I don't think people will mind if I do the same for the others. Louise 2:30, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

<shrug> well if they have not objected, it's a change of what I have been told, so go for it.  :) BTW Paenula Drakecatcher is in Charr's Triumph, the heart Help Paenula train troops takes place in Ashford Forum as well as Lake Adorea. --Spionida (talk) 02:34, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Got to say, for the record, that you adding copies of the hearts to each area in the zone's page that the hearts operate in is contrary to all I have been told about how we list those things. Looking forward to a consensus on this. --Spionida (talk) 02:51, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Spionida is correct: Tasks (hearts) should only appear on the area page where the NPC is located. If I haven't objected, it's because I haven't been reviewing every individual edit you make. —Dr Ishmael 12:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Deeps

There is Stygian Deeps, Terzetto Bay, Straits of Devastation, Ruins of Orr. Not sure if you want to include this. It's mainly Risen kraits rather than ordinary ones. --Spionida (talk) 20:35, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Oh yeah, forgot about those, I'll add them. Thanks for the heads up, and sorry for my outburst the other day. Don't know why I responded like that :/ Louise 20:48, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Because you're a passionate person. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 22:51, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

No problem. We all, myself included, can get upset. One of the problems with the Internet and text conversations is that we miss the tone of voice and other body language that helps the other person decide on our true meaning. Keep at it, no slowing down now... --Spionida (talk) 04:53, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

"Is that better Konig?"

It's the same thing.... The only change you made was the placement of Frostgorge Sound's Dragon Tribe underneath Fireheart Rise's tribes. The reason whY I removed the over-separation is because it creates a ton of unnecessary white space and over labels the section with too many unneeded sectionheaders (which extend the table of contents unneededly). The location can be gleaned either by adding a , <location> or the like at the end of each tribe name/location, or by simply clicking the link. It is unnecessary extension of the page and clutter of the table of contents who's only purpose is to add easily found information in a new location. Konig 23:24, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

warbands

← moved to Talk:Warband

mai rc

Could really use some bot edits for all those minor formatting changes :P--Relyk ~ talk < 19:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Check out my hideUser function. :) —Dr Ishmael 01:08, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Tried what you just said and it just refreshed my page. ?? Louise 1:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't include a comment about that. Don't click on the button. Instead, hit Tab from the text field and then Space to trigger it.

At the time I didn't know how to make JS trigger a change to the page without actually submitting it, and now I don't have to time to rewrite my code. —Dr Ishmael 01:30, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

When removing the stub template from articles...

Are you ensuring that they are, in fact, not stubs? Keep in mind that a stub article is an incomplete article. So by removing all these hundreds of stub uses, you're proclaiming them complete. I've already noted a few not so that I already had on my "need to improve" list. It is, in fact, a greater hindrance to remove stubs from incomplete articles than to leave a stub on a completed article, so you know. Konig 17:53, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Most of them only lacks a screenshot which I will do after this is done. Louise 19:24, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Might sound silly, but why not remove the stub if you think it appropriate, when you have added the screenshot? --Spionida (talk) 20:29, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I know which NPCs need screenshots, so I won't have to go back in forth between the stubs and the NPCs pages. Louise 20:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

So then, maybe find out from Konig why he feels that the ones that you are removing stub from are incomplete from his point of view. maybe his definition of complete does not equal yours. Just a thought. Up to you ofc  :) --Spionida (talk) 20:37, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I agree that some of them may lacks some info, like the dungeons, so I wouldn't mind to restub them, but most of what I remove are locations and NPCs that I'm 99.9% are done except for a screenshot that I will take later after this. Louise 20:40, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Seems fair enough if that's all. :) --Spionida (talk) 20:48, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Looking at a few of the articles, the articles don't look like stubs. The usage suggested on the {{stub}} template also directly conflicts with Konig. Louise is fine in removing the stubs.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:59, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

OTOH, if Konig's "hundreds" is literal, may be some were inappropriate. <Shrug> but that does happen with high volume editing when something is not factual, but an opinion. Maybe Konig should say what criteria he thinks are being missed. he's the "complainant". --Spionida (talk) 21:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I never meant to imply most were not stubs, just that I know some locations were missing NPCs or saw some NPC articles as lacking a section or two (often the Locations or Events sections). I have those that I noticed jotted down on a list.

@Relyk the Hylek: What do you mean the usage suggested conflicts with me? I was stating that a stub means it is lacking information and to quote the template: "A stub is an article that has missing or incomplete information — this has nothing to do with length: short articles are not necessarily stubs and long articles are not necessarily complete." So where's the conflict? Furthermore "Do use the stub when an article appears substantially complete, but isn't." - most of those articles appear complete. The question is: are they? So I'm asking Louise if he's ensuring they are indeed complete (with or without an image). If he isn't ensuring they're complete, then it merely looks substantially completed - but might not be and if if isn't complete then it requires a stub template added to it. Simple as that. I said nothing to contradict what the stub usage dictates. Konig 21:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Dyrala Ogrestalker

Hey, I saw that you put a move template on the Dyrala Ogrestalker page. I'm not sure why you did this since, as evidenced by this screenshot, that page is corrent and that is her name. If anything the Dylara Ogrestalker page should be incorporated into the Dyrala Ogrestalker page (although there isn't much to migrate).

Emailformygames (talk) 07:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Ah okay, I'm just a bit confused about this NPC since there's 3 different pages of it. :P Louise 11:38, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Being confused is understandable, but before you go editing pages you should really go in-game and look at the NPC (which will take you less than 2 minutes) to verify that your edits are correct. Otherwise you end up with incorrect information which is what occurred here. Also, based upon your talk page, you've made many more mistakes similar to this one so honestly I'm concerned at whether or not you should be editing the wiki at all.

Emailformygames (talk) 07:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Spacing in dialogue

I can understand it when you start spacing for brand new dialogue trees (different from the very beginning). An additional line or two does little to no harm there, though it is, IMHO, greatly unnecessary. However, creating a lot of white space in the middle of dialogue trees is unhelpful in every way, as when it is done like separating entire dialogue trees it makes it seem like each one is a separate tree that is, for some reason, starting with indentation. It's unnecessary, unhelpful, distracting, misleading, and extends the length of the page and thus the amount of scrolling. So I request that you stop in the latter. When they're properly formatted, they do not need those divisions at all in the middle of dialogue trees. Konig 16:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Gravestones

I noticed you added articles for every single buried NPC. Isn't this more or less the same concept as we discussed regarding Warbands? I mean; as long as the only info provided is what has been written on the tombstone; won't that be sufficient? If anything, I'd just put in a redirect to forward people to the applicable tombstone article. If however, there are several other mentions of a specific buried NPC; I'd agree we should create an article to sum it all up. That way, only those with "extensive information" would be showing up as links, and it won't misguide people into clicking something that'll just repeat the same thing they already read. Titus 15:01, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

It was actually discussed somewhere - I've long forgotten where - about making articles for those characters or not after someone did such for the Ebonhawke graves. The outcome was "not" because not enough information - if anything were to be done, a simple redirect to the gravestone articles would suffice.

NPCs mentioned in dialogue are different, like Vortarl the Despoiler. Konig 17:31, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

I kinda agree that some of the articles I created are kinda useless, such as the "human is buried...", but some others have some interesting info such as one of the sunspears buried in Ebonhawke or that guy from the Zealots of Shiverpeak. Louise 18:07, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Rule of thumb: NPC info only gathered from gravestone = no separate article. NPC mentioned several places / several sources of info = worthy of an article.

Even if the gravestone text is "interesting" (e.g. the ZoS one), that could be mentioned under trivia - or maybe more preferably in a short note just below the tombstone in question. Titus 20:07, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Exception to that rule: Lore-important figures. I'd argue for keeping Cordelius Thackeray, for example, and the members of the Ebon Falcons and Nicholas Sandford. Konig 20:24, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

You know, we've already had this bloody discussion

And as I said last time, I'll say again: We mark all organizations an NPC is a member of. Not all members of the Orders are members of the Pact - and vice versa, especially as of Season 2 - but if they're in both an Order and a Pact then we categorize both. Because they are in both. But again: your argument of "If we go by your logic, we should put all members of the three orders into the pact category and it would get flooded" is false because, again, not all members of the three orders are part of the Pact - the leaders, the PS mentors, etc. are not part of the Pact, but figures like Crusader Eilye Jeyne is a member of the Vigil, Pact, and Ebon Vanguard; Apatia is a member of the Vigil, Pact, and Lionguard; Deborah is a member of the Vigil, Pact, and Seraph; Lightbringer Osa is a member of the Order of Whispers and Pact; Professor Gorr is a member of the Order of Whispers and Pact; but Riel Darkwater is only a member of the Order of Whispers, Almorra is only a member of the Vigil, etc. As such Vigil Tactician is a member of both the Pact and the Vigil, and as such should be marked as both in categories. No, Category:Pact will not get flooded - or rather, it will not get flooded any more than it should be properly documenting only the NPCs in the Pact in that category. Konig 03:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

@Louise: please discuss this and reach a resolution before continuing to revert. Changing the pages back and forth is only going to escalate the situation. -Auron 11:50, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

"Colleges aren't organizations"

But they are: "a group of persons organized for some end or work; association" [1] This describes well what a college is. Even if you disagree, the wiki uses the term in the same way that GWW used gw1:Affiliation - that is, every NPC has two mechanical categorizations applied to them, internally known as army and family - they can be in only one of each; GWW refers to them respectively as affiliation and species; GW2W refers to them respectively as organization and species/race. The wikis go the extra step and denote lore-based affiliations (especially GW2W since it is near impossible to determine mechanical affiliation). These colleges follow under the later (lore-based affiliations) if not also the former (mechanical-based affiliations).
As such, yes, they are, by the wiki - and dictionary's - definition and classification of the term. Konig 22:10, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I think what you got mixed up on is the fact that there are also locations called College of <Insert college>. But that doesn't demote the colleges to "not organizations" because they are. In the same manner that the PoI Arcane Council doesn't demote the Arcane Council from being an organization. Konig 22:19, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Your NPC name moves

Did you ensure that all of those are the correct name you moved to? Because some of those looked correct before moving from my memory, and I know for a fact that some NPCs do have such 'odd' names that denote organization, rank/job, and then unique name. I'm just checking to see if you've gone... trigger happy. You do seem to be overzealous in your RC flooding. Konig 22:34, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

The names are different in-game, but it makes more sense on the wiki to see "Historian Gikki" than "Priory Historian Gikki". Like that, all historian are at the same place and etc. Louise 23:00, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

We name the wiki articles based on what is seen in-game - no ands, ifs, or buts; only exception is when we have an NPC that uses many names (like how Steward Gixx is seen as both Steward Gixx and just Gixx, or how Rytlock Brimstone is seen as Tribune Rytlock Brimstone, Rytlock, Rytlock Brimstone, and Tribune Brimstone - in those cases, we use either the most common, or the easiest to integrate in wiki linking). You say it makes more sense to see Historian Gikki, but it also makes more sense to keep with consistency in the game. Konig 23:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

To put it another way: if you were to see an NPC in-game, and wanted to learn more about said NPC, what would you search? Some alteration of the NPC name, or the NPC's actual name, regardless of how silly it might be? Most people would do the latter. And simply "have the in-game name as a redirect" is pointless because you're just flooding the number of articles, the search engine, and likely more that I don't know about with these pointless redirects. Konig 23:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Tamini Banner

That's actually the Seraph/Krytan kingdom's banner on a centaur flag pole. The Tamini banner utilizes this guild emblem, if memory serves me right. Konig 18:08, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh. I don't know really, I just went to the first Tamini camp I saw and took this shot. Louise 21:24, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I'd guess you were there while the camp was controlled by the Seraph. —Dr Ishmael 21:35, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Necromancer edit

I'm curious, who else has access to wells? —Ventriloquist 08:45, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, since they already added the info on the Well page about Chronomancers having access to wells, I figured I'd remove it right now. Louise 11:33, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

"Ehrgen Cragstrider is only the leader of the Restoration Refuge, their main leader is still unknown to us."

Restoration Refuge is the only known still-existing home of the Maguuma centaurs, however. The only other group of Maguuma centaurs known to us were wiped out 20-stime years prior by Caithe, Faolain, and the proto-Nightmare Court. Konig 14:53, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I know. But we don't know for sure that the Restoration Refuge is the last refuge standing. They might be somes deeper in the forest in HOT. Until they comfirm it, I think its better to assume that he isn't the main guy. Louise 12:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

There's nothing to really indicate that there's a third group of them, however. You might as well be assuming that there's more leadership to the largos than the Tethyos Houses. In other words, as far as we know - which is what we document, all that we can document - he is the leader of the Maguuma centaurs. If there are more centaurs in the Heart of the Maguuma, then they might be called something else. And if there are different leaders, then we can edit the article. But right now, you are putting speculation, the speculation that there's more tribes out there when we don't know whether there are or aren't. As such, it would be more accurate to singularize the tribe and leader, rather than pluralize it. Konig 03:22, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, if we go by your logic, you too are assuming that Ehrgen is the leader of the Maguuma centaurs, which it has been stated nowhere too. I think its safer to speculate that there were more than two tribes of Maguuma centaurs than to say that since he is the first leader we ever came across (still alive, that is), that he is the main leader of the tribe. Louise 7:02, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm not assuming anything. He is the leader of the Maguuma centaurs that we know exist (those of Restoration Refuge). In Restoration Refuge, there's dialogue in which centaurs divulge to him for leadership.

Unless we have any form of indication to implicate otherwise, we should act that what we see of the Maguuma is all there is. Konig 13:56, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Dragon champions

Unless you can provide a source that calls them champions, it's best not to slap them in those categories. Normally I wouldn't oppose the whole 'if it looks, acts, and talks like one it probably is one' but this has always been an iffier subject than most. And this goes double for the experimented on ones like Bjarl. Konig 16:38, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, you need to be able to tell the difference between a dragon champion and a champion ranked NPC. They are NOT the same. Konig 16:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Linking profession skills in NPC articles

For NPC skills that have the same name as a profession skill - please do not link to the profession skill and use its icon. In most cases the two of them work quite differently. Rather, link to the mechanic associated with the NPC skill. In the original Guild Wars, NPCs use profession skills same as players do, so it is quite clear to link profession skills in their article. Not the case in Guild Wars 2 though. Examples:

• For NPCs that use the shadowstep mechanic, instead of using Shadowsteps, simply use Shadowsteps (linking to the page of the mechanic).
• In Elite Reef Skelk, you relate the mob's Ambush skill, that is a double damage attack, with   Ambush, a thief trap skill irrelevant to the skill's description.

Since you used this kind of inconsistency in many articles, I am writing here so we can agree on a proposition how to deal with this. Thank you in advance. CzechHero 00:01, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

The established practices are:

1. Don't link to player skills from NPCs. They may have similar effects and the same name, but they are rarely the exact same skill (nearly always have different recharge times).
2. Don't use an icon template in the middle of a line of prose (e.g. "Vanishes into  Stealth") because it looks bad.

—Dr Ishmael 00:59, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Agreed completely with Ish. The square icons don't mesh well with text and it breaks the readers' readability, not to mention it looks awful. —Ventriloquist 11:22, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Dude

What's taking so long? Why haven't you gotten all of HoT info on the wiki yet? :D --Lustre Of Havoc 話 12:16, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Fine, don't acknowledge me! --Lustre Of Havoc 話 01:09, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

What de ye think me be doin'? --Louise (talk) 01:10, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Being slow, that's what! :P --Lustre Of Havoc 話 06:17, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Don't ye pull me old leg now, ye rascal. I ain't young no more. --Louise (talk) 06:18, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

You're younger than I am... --Lustre Of Havoc 話 06:22, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Have you gone gonker, lad? Me old bones be barely holding me self. --Louise (talk) 06:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

about Peacemaker Report and Surface Data Entry

What are the actual in-game names of the objects? If the object name is Peacemaker Report, then the article should be at that name, even if there are multiple objects with the same name. —Dr Ishmael 04:00, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Their name are written to the singular. I'll change them back to their original form. --Louise (talk) 04:02, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks! —Dr Ishmael 04:55, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

"It was fine before, don't know why you changed it."

Uhhh, no it wasn't. If it was, then you wouldn't notice a difference. Any locations that aren't part of Verdant Brink need to be removed. That's a silly reason to revert without bothering to discuss it first.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:58, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Tell me what was wrong then. I added onto that table myself by looking at the in-game map. All of the areas on there are present in the Verdant Brink map. Just by looking at the table you added earlier, I've seen a lot of things that didn't match. For exemple, The Itzel Grounds and Itzel Hunting Grounds became Jaka Itzel. Some of the Broken Bluffs' points of interest actually belongs in the Hidden Copse area. --Louise (talk) 01:06, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

The template generates the areas automatically, so you already explained what's wrong. Itzel Grounds and Itzel Hunting Grounds redirect to Jaka Itzel and were being pulled up. Those can be fixed by clearing the redirect page. The points of interest have the wrong area in them. The solution would be to go fix those. Obviously, immediately reverting an edit did not fix anything.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:49, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I get that. But...the table was already completed, so I don't see the point in adding the template. --Louise (talk) 14:27, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I didn't add a template, I switched the static table to generate the table dynamically with Semantic Mediawiki. The point is assuming that an article (or table) is complete is a bad practice. The game might change the locations of hero challenges or the wiki might change the formatting. The two immediate advantages are that the areas are now sorted correctly and the waypoints/vistas are linked correctly.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:37, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Removing of valid wikilinks?

Not sure why you removed valid wiki links from the Rata Novus Instructor article, but when you do, would be helpful if included an explanation in the Summary so others can know your reasoning for doing so. Thought I'd make a fuller enquiry here, but have also added a discussion on formatting and wiki-linking for that article on it's talkpage. Also, I changed back the adding of the "The Granite Citadel" in the wikilink, unless the "The" is part of the formal name of a place, it shouldn't be linked as such (ie, we document the game etc). --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 12:51, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

I removed links that were already linked(?) before on the page such as the White Mantle and Prince Rurik. Also, I thought linking the whole The Granite Citadel looked better than The Granite Citadel. --Louise (talk) 18:12, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, normally we "wiki only once", as I noted in the article's talk page, this one has a good reason for being an exception (that discussion there), so for now, let over-linked and we'll see what the consensus is. As for "looks better", whether or not, on the wiki we document the game, not what we think looks better. Reading a few of the past topics on your talkpage, you have been reminded of this already. You will cause much less work for others if would stick with the common approach please. --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 23:50, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

WTF? Just notices you've reverted my changes *again* without even contributing to the discussion about the over-linking first. I went to the curtsy of posting a note here on your talkpage precisely to avoid a revert war starting up, you could at least return that curtsy and DISCUSS prior to removing someone else's work (I spent quite a bit of time researching all those links to ensure they went to the right articles etc, do not appreciate having that summarily dismissed when had already outlined the reasoning for it). --Wolfie (talk|contribs) 23:57, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Courtesy** --Lustre Of Havoc 話 05:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

HoT Casualties

Is there a particular reason why you deemed it necessary to create an article for every single person who was listed as killed/memorialized in HoT?

I feel one article would have more than sufficed for all of these: [[Sorin the Always Lost]] [[Kalevala Ilarinen]] [[Leiua'Niruo]] [[Ingwe Aman]] [[Vala Firiath]] [[Yaine Solaris]] [[Ajan the Wolf]] [[Synthia Midwinter]] [[Karss]] [[Ray Tissyr]] [[Marcus Andarrin]] [[Haroochoo]] [[Seiken Gwen]] [[Ella Tassinari]] [[Zuki]] [[Thonna]] [[Julegiliw]] [[Greibach]] [[Leroy Jaymin]] [[Rebeka Von Etto]] [[Loren Mighal]] [[Sigrir Dauethinn]] [[Thierry Dehrogon]] [[Lily Kyruna]] [[Solteig Harmossa]] [[Jono the Baker]] [[Deinos Elessan]] [[Pluxx]] [[Lilian Luzwin]] [[Nokaru]] [[Lina]] [[Fydor Heramon]] [[Sanna Georgsdottir]] [[Shena Ain]] [[Aly Katzen]] [[Edward Wiseowl]] [[Segren Din Cator]] [[Jis'chi]] [[Ulfarr Paterson]] [[Hagar Greywolf]] [[Stij Shadowslinger]] [[Danielle Urorel]] [[Lilye]] [[Squiss]] [[Cla Dragontalon]] [[Pipo the Cat]] [[Kellyn]] [[Avelana]] [[Sions Sagpson]] [[Fusa]] [[Dwokk]] [[Chyll]] [[Orim]] [[Harlo Jonendottir]] [[Teson]] [[Teris]] [[Optissia White]] [[Warbb]] [[Tyrra]] [[Fens]] [[Ravv]]

90% of these articles contain almost the same general text:

"_______ was an ________ who died when the Pact fleet was destroyed by Mordremoth."

While the other 10% simply contain a variation of the aforementioned.

It is absurd that an article was created for every single one of these names, and unless you have some sort of logical objection as to why these names should remain as individual articles, I will be nominating these "articles" to be merged into a simple list of names and descriptions on one article. 98.193.124.175 00:11, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Considering none of the moderators had a problem with it, I don't think you need to make an issue out of it. Anyone can see what he did. I also don't see why they can't each have their own page, because every other NPC has its own page on the wiki. You could always make a page that has them all on it, in case someone doesn't need to find an individual person. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 00:35, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

NPC's can have their own page. This is a list of names. There was never an NPC associated with any of these names. They are just flavor text added to the game for enrichment. 98.193.124.175 00:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Like I said, none of the mods have an issue with the creation. You're more than welcome to make a page that lists all the names, but there's no reason why they can't have a separate page. For all you know, it's being set up for future use of some kind. Gotta prepare for anything. --Lustre Of Havoc 話 01:49, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

There are no "moderators" on the wiki. I haven't seen any comments from other users either. It's only an NPC if it existed in the game, otherwise it's just a character. Typically, we only create those pages for characters that are lore-related or aren't mentioned in-game. Characters that are only mentioned in a list like this don't need their own pages. Creating individual pages here removes the context of where the information is found and creates busywork.--Relyk ~ talk < 07:18, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

I've taken it upon myself to create a page where all the casualties can be listed, and you are more than welcome to embellish the page as you see fit. I do not have the patience to learn/translate New Krytan, so there is still a little bit of work to be done.... but the new page can be found here. I have also nominated the articles to be merged. Leech (talk) 08:52, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

Good work on combining them. I'd like to see all of these one sentence pages deleted or redirected to the memorial page. I don't think that we should be using the "object" infobox since it doesn't have a title when you hover over it. We can use screenshots rather than transcribing each bit.

I'm wondering what the order of names is at the moment btw - perhaps it should be alphabetical by memorial location (e.g. section 1=verdant brink, names a-z, section 2=auric basin, names a-z...)?

For reference, verdant brink was translated here. dunno about the others.

Also, it might be nice if we wrote down where these were, I can see the VB + DS ones, failed to find the others :p -Chieftain Alex 11:46, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

On second thought, deleted is best - these NPC names are only written in New Krytan for the most part. -Chieftain Alex 11:49, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

You've certainly outdone yourself, sir. Excellent work. Leech (talk) 15:41, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

The funny thing is, I wonder if Louise even knows any of this has been done yet. Boy is he going to be surprised! --Lustre Of Havoc 話 16:06, 27 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't care much for it at this point. Across multiple wikis I contributed to, most of the things I do gets critiqued one way or another so I'm done trying to argue. --Louise (talk) 05:41, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

.*hugs Louise*--Relyk ~ talk < 07:13, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

The Location

I dont' think you should add "The" to all locations. Locations are fine without a definite article. --JonTheMon (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I add "The" to the locations who needs it. (i.e) Gendarran Fields at the beginning of the article looks better if you add a "The" just before. Also, a lot of articles already had the pre-fixe so why not apply it to the rest. --Louise (talk) 23:39, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Still doesn't flow for me. "The Gendarran Fields are a multi-racial farmland of Kryta". Perhaps it's an issue of making it too definite, when it's just a location, imo. --JonTheMon (talk) 23:43, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I would understand your concern if I added it to let's say Bar Curtis Ranch since this location is about someone's property. But in the case of the Gendarran Fields, the name ending with a common noun justify the use of the "The" pre-fix. --Louise (talk) 23:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

As this is fairly stylistic, I'll revert and let the discussion pan out. --JonTheMon (talk) 23:52, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

I have concerns here too and propose a pause in further changes. The changes make the articles read strangely to me too. Some places (e.g. Wreck of the Lethal Vantage and Shire of Beetletun because of the 'of') are fine, but most of the rest do not sound like correct English (e.g. while I would say the east gate, I wouldn't say The Eastgate when referring the to the location of Eastgate in York UK so its strange to see it referred to as The Eastgate in Tarir; I would not refer to Cheddar Gorge as The Cheddar Gorge, or to Venice Beach as The Venice Beach). Locations generally don't get definite articles even if they are common nouns. -- Fam (talk) 13:21, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree with Jon and Fam. Location names are proper nouns, and as such don't normally take articles (neither definite nor indefinite). —Dr Ishmael 16:45, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Removal of Itzel category

Why'd you do that? It was a perfectly legit category. Konig 18:57, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Because there's no need to have one for them. The Itzel are hylek so they already belong in that category and so does the Nuhoch. The Nuhoch don't have a category either and nobody seems to have an issue with that, so I don't see the point of your complaint. --Louise (talk) 03:30, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I wanted to as the same question: Why? While the Itzel are a type of hylek, they are special and prominent enough as a group of their own to justify a category and a list of its members on the Itzel page. And yes, we should add that for the Nuhoch, too. Balwin (talk) 10:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Less a complaint and more curiosity. The Itzel and Nuhochs are both distinct enough to get their own organization-based category, and I would have argued for an addition of Nuhoch category instead - there hasn't been one because a lot of these things are still WIP (just look at the itzel and nuhoch articles!). Itzel and Nuhoch refers to not only a specific tribe (like hylek itself did once upon a time), but a subspecies of the frogman race (thus far we have three named: heket, itzel, nuhoch - the standard hylek we see are an unnamed subspecies). It seems like an overall easier thing to do to put them in a category so we can have a list of types on their articles (like a handful of hylek tribe articles do - and all should). Konig 15:14, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

"Pretty much all NPCs with rank suffixes are edited that way so I don't see why it should be an exception here."

AFAIK, you are the one and only person who does this, actually, and the vast majority of NPC articles are, in fact, including the prefix. Besides, it should include the rank prefix so long as the rank prefix is actually part of the NPC's name. If it isn't, then it isn't include. Lysek isn't being unique by showing Champion in the main paragraph - that's how the vast majority of articles are done, and how all articles should be done. If the NPC name was simply "Lord Lysek" then the way you're showing it would be right. The only time we alter the article's name in the main body is when it has a parantheses modifier, like Gleam and Gleam (dragon). Konig 21:07, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Edit: The only exception to the above is when an NPC appears with multiple variations of the name, like Rytlock who can show up as Tribune Brimstone, Rytlock, Rytlock Brimstone, and Tribune Rytlock Brimstone. Konig 21:09, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I just personally think that it looks much better without the suffix and the first sentence rolls off much smoother. And then again, there's no positives in leaving the suffix there since it's already in the infobox and at the top of the page. --Louise (talk) 21:12, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

The prefix being there isn't about denoting the NPC's rank, but about denoting the NPC's in-game name, which is Champion Lord Lysek, not Lord Lysek. . Edit: You had caused similar problems with this topic before when you moved tons of NPC articles because they had 'redundant names' despite the articles being what was the in-game name (they still aren't all fixed because some are obscure as hell). This is the same kind of situation here - we document the actual situation within the game, not "what sounds/looks good". I can agree, Lord Lysek sounds and looks better than Champion Lord Lysek, but that's just simply not the NPC's name. Konig 21:19, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I know that, it's just that's it's already at the top of the page and in the infobox, I just don't see the point and like I said earlier, I think it looks smoother in the context of a sentence. EDIT - I wholeheartedly agree, that was a mistake on my end since they didn't qualify as suffixes but I still stand on what I said about the NPC ranks. --Louise (talk) 21:22, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I have to agree with Konig here. While I also find it a little odd to have names like "Elite XYZ", "Champion XYZ" etc., these are often the official in-game names of the NPCs and so the pages here on the wiki have to reflect that. Balwin (talk) 11:29, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I do agree, Louise, that it is aesthetically pleasing to avoid the rank prefix but if you do this for unique names you need to do this for all names. Then we just have Ice Imp which... is unhelpful because reading it would feel no different than reading Ice Imp or Ice Imp or Ice Imp.Unless ArenaNet goes and removes the rank prefix from the names, it's part of the name and articles should be showing such. And why would it being in the article name and infobox change things? It's the name, it should be in all three places (well, it doesn't have to be in the infobox - that's just how our infoboxes are designed). Konig 11:47, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I do agree also on the fact that it should be kept on the page. All I am saying is that I don't see the problem in removing the prefix from the name in the first sentence of the article. It wouldn't mislead people since at the top of the page and in the infobox the full name including the prefix is all written. --Louise (talk) 19:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

It's inconsistent. And inconsistency is often misleading. I don't want Champion Ice Imp's intro to read "Ice Imp is a powerful Ice Imp located in Angvar's Trove." as a viewer. That's just stupid sounding and worthy of captain obvious memes. Konig 20:24, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Once again, I don't see it being misleading since the full name is already clearly stated in big characters at the top of the page and I don't think removing a simple prefix to make a sentence look better is going to drive people mad with confusion. I've been only removing the prefix on articles regarding NPCs with proper names. Removing the prefix on articles like the one you mentioned would be misleading. --Louise (talk) 21:29, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Consistency is the most important aspect of a wiki. If you do this for some NPCs, you need to do it for all NPCs related. This means, yes, you'd do this for generically named veterans, elites, champions, and legendaries. So yes, you'd be making hundreds of articles with "Ice Imp is a powerful Ice Imp" - and that's 100% okay with you? "I don't think removing a simple prefix to make a sentence look better is going to drive people mad with confusion." You'd be surprised what inconsistency can do to folks... Konig 02:47, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I feel like I'm repeating myself here. I'm not advocating for the complete removal of the prefix on articles, only the one found in the first sentence of said article. I personally see no ways this would confuse people since if they type the name of the page they want in the search bar, it will appear with the rank prefix in it, so there's no harm done there. And it just makes sense to apply this rule to only proper names articles since they concern unique NPCs, unlike the Ice Imp one for example which covers a wider range. --Louise (talk) 02:55, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I know what you're advocating. My main issue is this: "apply this rule to only proper names articles" - you're creating an inconsistency for how we deal with the same exact situation. It creates a formatting guideline inconsistency which many editors will be unable to follow or not knowing about in order to follow. And creating the consistency in the format you prefer (removing the prefix via unnecessary extra characters) only makes the vast majority of articles' introduction confusing. Edit: Let me make my point as concise as possible: You do it to one, you do it to all. And all in this case includes generic named NPCs. Konig 03:53, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I would understand your point if we were to remove the prefix from the article title itself. That would cause formatting issues. I really don't see the big issue with this. Plus, like you said, I'm the only one who's doing this so it's not like it's causing trouble to anybody else. And again, I've been doing it for a long time, like since Dry Top was released and no one brought it up. --Louise (talk) 04:34, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

The guideline specifies the page title in the first sentence. If you have an issue with the guideline, you could bring it up on the guideline talk page. Not wait until someone brings it up. In prose, the canonical name should always be used. We use the canonical name for the page title and it's advantageous for both editors and readers when using wikilinks. This is good practice even for the first sentence of the article where the canonical name can be referred to implicitly. We don't gain anything by not doing so.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:52, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm kind of surprised to see this is still an issue with you, Louise. Ishmael and I raised a similar argument with you a year ago on the incorrect use of the name parameter and the unwarranted shortening of names, and you ended up agreeing with us. Why should enemies receive a different treatment?

I agree with the both Konig and Relyk; it might seem like an insignificant change at first, but you'd be really surprised to see how much (new) users are affected by what they see on the editing page. I still sometimes see redundant name parameters on item pages, so it would be good to avoid having the same issue tie in with NPC articles. —Ventriloquist 08:18, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I've said my piece so I'll just end responding to this: "I'm the only one who's doing this so it's not like it's causing trouble to anybody else." - As long as you edit in a public space, anyone and everyone can be hindered or helped by your edits. It is never just you unless it is in your personal userspace. This goes not only for these kinds of edits, but any kinds of edits. Konig 14:57, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Alright then, I'll stop doing that. Although I still stand by what I said, I think this thing grew way bigger than it should've and it might be better to end it there. --Louise (talk) 19:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Pictures Ahoy

I've noticed you've been uploading a ton of photos from the German wiki and I just wanted to give you a heads up on something: While the pictures may be prettier on their wiki some of the other pictures are actually out dated, aren't any better or actually worse than what we have here. So if you can, please be double check the models are accurate/up to date and that the photos are actually better quality before you upload them. <3 - Do_odleplex 03:23, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

To my knowledge, models for common NPCs in-game can changes all the time, even in-between logins. For example, one day I was roaming around the Black Citadel and I saw Dayol Stormwatcher with the model he has currently on his page. Right after that, my game crashed and when I re-logged in, he had the model ressembling the one of Crucio Bellforger. So as far as I know, other than important or specific NPCs, models can change all the time. But thanks for the heads up nonetheless. --Louise (talk) 03:33, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Before you go changing all the alt-model NPCs...

I wanted to get some discussion on it. I had brought it up to User:Doodleplex since she's working hard on the shared model project. Please stop until we get folks feedbacking on it. I only did two articles as a test. Konig 05:53, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Pictures from the german wiki

Hey, thank you for supporting me in uploading the pictures from the german wiki over here. One thing you could do: On the preview-page, click on the image once to see it in full resolution, then it will be even bigger, better, more wonderful :D --Cloned (talk) 13:13, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I was pretty sure they would be both the same size and resolution. Will do in the future. --Louise (talk) 17:33, 7 July 2016 (UTC)