User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 6

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.



Archive #5 is missing, it links to #4. (needed that link for the area id's){feel free to delete this post}Yoe Dude 21:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Drawing a line after a === title, to the right edge

On some pages with more than one weapon/armor listed (e.g. Leather Aquabreather), it would improve readability to have a horizontal line separating the items. The items are under "===XXX===" headers, which don't draw any lines. Is it possible to have those titles optionally followed by a horizontal line extending to the right edge? For example, something like:
===Header3=== {{LineToEdge}}
could do the trick. --Alad 22:24, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

there really shouldn't be more than one infobox on the page, so the design is an anomaly with respect to our formatting... it should be split per the talk page.
alternatively we could use zero real infoboxes, a table to display the data, and a fake infobox at the top with the icon, name, binding, armorclass and slot type all setup. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:30, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Alex has the right of it. If there is more than one infobox on a page, either split the page up or condense it to a table. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:36, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
example of what I'm thinking of. (idk which heading order to use on the table) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
That’s pretty much what I was thinking as well. Maybe even split it up into multiple articles based on the quote thing. poke | talk 22:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
There are already those variation tables implemented on a few pages, they look fine to me.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:56, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Table on one page seems best. Nice and compact. How about a function which takes as parameters several weapon templates, or armor templates and creates a table out of them? I.e. surround multiple armor infoboxes with a function and it creates a table out of them. (Oh, and how about the original question I asked, is it at all possible?) --Alad 00:43, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I don't think either of those are possible. If you split the distinct items to individual pages, however, we could use a semantic query to build the table from the data in the individual infoboxes. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:57, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks. And good job Alex on the Leather Aquabreather page! :) --Alad 08:32, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Floating icons

What is the reason to have icons float left? It ends up half the time being we don't want that behavior.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I can't really remember why I did that, all I remember is that it was the only way to make something work. In other words, don't go and just remove it, because stuff will break. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:57, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
I'm wondering if we would have the generic icon wrapper do no float by default and float as the parameter, as many of the icon templates don't use float.--Relyk ~ talk > 02:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Dye colours

Especially with the release of the new dyes, there are a number of dye pages that we don't have hex values for. I was wondering what the established process that was used to get the hex values we have now was, so that I could go about doing it (I expect the reason it hasn't been done yet is because it's a tedious task which no one really wants :P). I figured that if anyone would know, it'd be you. —Jyavoc 00:39, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Template talk:Dye infobox#Different color boxes was the main discussion. User:Dosvidaniya added the majority of the color codes that we currently have. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:51, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Ack, tedium indeed. But I'll give it a shot as I can. Thanks for the link (even with googlefu at your command, I marvel at the amount of obtained knowledge you have over everything here) —Jyavoc 00:55, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
I observe most everything that happens around here, yeah, and I have a freakish memory for random details. This one, at least, I've referenced a number of times, so I knew exactly where it was without having to search. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:01, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorting by profession type

When sorting by subquery doesn't work, do it manually: User:Relyk/SMW/skill icon2 *evel laugh*--Relyk ~ talk > 06:08, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Very nice :) Now we need a place to enter trait data about how they modify the skills (eg. adds this boon or condition to that skill) and your nifty query can also list the skills which depend on traits being slotted!! :) --Alad 06:46, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
That won't be possible because there isn't any data, traits don't list their effects explicitly. Generating lists through queries isn't plausible for most things anyways because we have lists divided into 50 subsections and tag notes on the skills.--Relyk ~ talk > 07:05, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
*cough* | sort = Has profession type | order = descending >.> Or, y'know, you could have defined the "type" numbers in the other order. Or, since you're only using this to sort things, you could have given the property an appropriate name like Has profession sort order and made it explicit 1 – 8. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:27, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Skills don't have a profession type. Doing other stuff involves doing stuff to the infobox, which I didn't want to do for the purpose of spamming your talk page. The property also infests the armor type pages, Has profession sort order is entirely inappropriate because it does not reflect the semantics of sorting by profession type and is abhorrent to the implementation. Furthermore, these sort order properties are hideous and don't reflect the data in-game, it would be inconceivable to sort by some explicitly defined key than implicitly with a property who's only worthwhile purpose is for sorting as the wiki decided natural sorting is way too good for the delicate professions.--Relyk ~ talk > 12:47, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Can you imagine how easy it would be to generate and keep up to date all those pages which list which skills do that, which skills affect that, which traits... endlessly? If we could enter all the trait and skill data. This is a database of some sort, isn't it? If not, then maybe a database is needed. --Alad 20:39, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Item stats

<div class="inline-icon">{{#switch:{{lc:{{{1}}}}} | magic find = [[File:Miscellaneous effect.png|20px|link=Magic find]]}}</div>

{{icon|magic find}} --> Miscellaneous effect.png

{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{1}}}% }}{{icon|magic find}} [[Magic find|Magic Find]]

{{Magic Find|3}} --> {{User:Relyk/Sandbox|3}}

{{#switch:{{lc:{{{1}}}}} | magic find = {{magic find|3}}{{#set:Gives attribute bonus={{{2}}}; Magic find}}

{{Item stat|magic find|3}}

--Relyk ~ talk > 04:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

YEEEEEEEES!!! I made the job queue top out at... OVER 9,000! ...dammit, why didn't I screenshot that? /cry
Anyway, yes? I don't really get your point here. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:07, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
So people can get their item stats without using the the item stat template...--Relyk ~ talk > 04:09, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, please, GO, CONQUER! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
The "icon" template is literally the icon wrapper that I did the tl;dr about. So poke would get mad. Maybe go do the entire thing in my userspace. I already got my medal of honor: File:Relyk nukewiki.png--Relyk ~ talk > 04:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Table manners

Seraph Spy Ivy needs some love... on her table. (sound yummy? she's cute too!)

  • Wyld Greatsword (which has 2 different icons on her vendor dialog, and which I fixed on the sword's page), isn't showing icons in the table for some reason now.
  • Couldn't enter Rune/sigil upgrades on the masterwork items in the table. Thanks mate. :) --Alad 00:47, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
As usual you'll need to split Wyld Greatsword. And just put the runes using item icon template. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 01:15, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, kind sir! :) --Alad 01:41, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

“converting to auto stats lookup”

Why is that your new standard “I left a comment” edit summary? Confuses me a lot :/ poke | talk 14:15, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I put it in a GreaseMonkey script for when I'm in bot-mode, and I just forget to turn it off. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
again :D poke | talk 14:39, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
everyone else will have to put it in their edit summaries so he doesn't feel like hes the only one doing it :p -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I already hate you for that Alex. poke | talk 18:30, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
I would say I hate you guys, but I unleashed this curse on myself, didn't I? /sigh —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:32, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
You're allowed to hate Poke and Alex, but not me I'm afraid. - Tanetris 21:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
^ Came here to point that one out… <_< ;D poke | talk 07:43, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
It is my duty to inform you that you just converted Mashed potatoes to auto stats lookup. Felix Omni Signature.png 17:48, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
I feel like this is now a gw2w meme... just saw it on User talk:Relyk‎...- User Zesbeer sig.png Zesbeer 21:48, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Removing Iran page

Are you insane or some kind of troll? This is not a support issue it's about inform players from Iran to dont waste their time here. When arena net not going to explain this clearly on their sites. I asked them already to remove Iran from the country list if they dont support us but they didn't answer. -- Milad 06:20, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

We can't do anything about it. We aren't ArenaNet.--Relyk ~ talk > 06:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
As I know this wiki made by players to help and inform other players, and that was what i did. Just don't understand why this guy deleted the page. Players from Iran can't play this game (as ArenaNet support says) and I tried to inform them from here.--Milad 06:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I moved the info you posted into running the game. I don't think it makes sense to name an article after a given country, but I do think the information pertains to specifications/requirements for playing the game, which is what running the game is about. I hope that's an acceptable solution for you. 06:57, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, it would be better. --Milad 07:50, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Template:Skill list dpl

Hey, could you tell me what’s the point of that empty table inside; and also the {{clear}}? All that whitespace looks terrible :/ poke | talk 08:48, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

That was done for the "List of X skills" pages, to make everything after the intro line get pushed down below the TOCright (so that you don't have the first header appear right after the intro line, but the fixed-width table below the TOC). ...And guess what I just realized. If the content is forced below the TOC... why the hell is the TOC on the right? That's just dumb. I'll take out the "spacer" from the template, and remove the TOCright from the skill list pages. — Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, that looks a lot better now! :) Btw. it might be a good idea to document such templates in a way that it’s obvious what they do (e.g. here, it exports lots of variables), to add a bit more transparency to all those whole automated stuff things. – Not for me (I can figure it out from the source), but for other users that maybe just want to edit a page and see a template which does not produce any output. ^^ poke | talk 12:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


Just wondering, did I do too much of a change by merging all of the Orr armors into the same article? Is there any place where general armor-related stuff can be discussed with others before taking action? I'm sort of wondering if the change I made was for the better or not, and if the same could be done with the Named armor sets as well. Thanks for standing up with my newbie confusion, hehe -Tulen elementti (talk) 06:30, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

That topic had been discussed recently, and what we had decided was to create a merged gallery page, but leave the specific item details on the individual set pages. For example, Armageddon armor would have stayed the same, but added the "armor gallery overview" template linking to the merged gallery. The way you've set it up, though, I think works pretty well. The controversy on the talk page is just over the naming of the page. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:21, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
You can use Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Armor formatting for discussion. For the Orr armour sets, I suggested User:Pling/Sandbox/Armour/Temple which would make it easier to get the stat you want for the armour piece you want. Sorting the armour pieces by their suffix or their prefix isn't useful in that sense, because they're kinda unrelated to stats like power/precision/critical damage, etc. pling User Pling sig.png 16:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

does no one check the in-game description before updating these pages?

no--Relyk ~ talk > 04:06, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Except me. /sigh —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes I hate patch notes: Larcenous Strike, Stab skills: Reduced aftercast by 0.5 seconds. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN'T EVEN CHAIN IT FOR THAT PROPERLY.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Told you ^____^--Relyk ~ talk > 05:39, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Won't happen again. Manifold User Manifold Neptune.jpg 07:14, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

What do you think?

I know simple success/failure/multiple indents etc can never completely reflect the sometimes complex chains but, does this look any good User:Claret/Sandbox? It's a replacement for what we have and do but, hopefully, looks better. Thanks. Corrected to show link. --Claret 19:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

You can bring this up on Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Location formatting :)--Relyk ~ talk > 22:13, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Will do --Claret 22:30, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Related Traits on Skill pages

moved to Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal#Related Traits on Skill pages

weapon strength query

I got the weapon strength property and template all set up and used it on "PvP Steady weapons". It was working fine initially but it's hitting the null value issue with queries (Steady Mace made it out unscathed :D)--Relyk ~ talk > 19:42, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Dang, Mace was the one that didn't work yesterday. Oh well, just wait til Wednesday. Speaking of which, that should seriously get in the sitenotice. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:40, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I hope this gets sorted out :) ([[User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox8]]). About time they got around to updating eh. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:23, 3 May 2013 (UTC)


Attack says flanking attacks deal more damage, period, while the actual Flanking page doesn't say anything about that. In your weapon tests have you noticed this at all? --JonTheMon 15:39, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

That's not something I've ever paid attention to. I haven't done much weapon-damage testing since the betas anyway. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:43, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
The very first revision of the article Flanking has a reference to ANet blog saying that even effects like stun would have longer duration when applied while flanking, but that page no longer exists. Mediggo 16:51, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Trait table

At Mesmer_traits#Illusions there's a duplicate entry b/c a user has a trait on a user page. Is that a query issue in the trait table, or an issue with the infobox populating the properties? --JonTheMon 03:20, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Neither. I'd say it's either A) an error with our configuration (I think we should disable semantics for everything except mainspace; I especially don't know why we would ever need semantics in userspace) or B) an issue with a a mainspace infobox being used on a userpage.
However, I can fix it in the query by restricting results to mainspace. Frankly, that shouldn't be necessary (see A above). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:24, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
A... would be a more thorough solution. But the biggest benefit of having it available in user space is for sandboxes and testing projects. But, the fix to the query should work for now. --JonTheMon 03:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Still needs userspace for testing purposes :3 I thought this would be moot once we have category depth hierarchy for use in queries.--Relyk ~ talk > 03:58, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
TMTOWTDI. Limit the query to mainspace, limit the query to subcategories, don't let users use mainspace templates, disable semantics on userspace, have the infobox only set properties in mainspace (like they already do for categories), etc, etc.
Disabling semantics on a namespace doesn't mean you can't run queries, it means it won't store properties for that namespace. You could still sandbox queries in your userspace. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Pretty much. Storing properties on a page was implied, to query and check it was set properly. Infoboxes make terrible sandboxes.--Relyk ~ talk > 06:27, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
“have the infobox only set properties in mainspace” – My probably favorite option. But I guess this will turn out to be a syntactical horror, right? poke | talk 09:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Pretty much. Any filtering/standardization that you perform for displaying the value in the infobox, you'd have to repeat down in the autocat section for setting the property. Or store the filtered value in a variable, but then you'd have a mess of variables in every infobox. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:34, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
We can restrain it to the mainspace and Guild Wars 2 Wiki namespace so code can be tested in the on say [[Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Semantic MediaWiki/Sandbox]]. The only other hazard is the regular sandbox.--Relyk ~ talk > 13:10, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


User:Relyk/SMW/NPC infobox, weeeeeeeee--Relyk ~ talk > 04:16, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Please don't go crazy with changing infoboxes yet - the datastore rebuild needs to finish before we add even more stuff to the job queue. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:19, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
userspace--Relyk ~ talk > 04:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Duh, I wasn't referring to what you've already done, I was referring to what I assumed you would do next. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
You are bringing down my excitement about a proof of concept using arraymaps.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Rebuild is complete, go wild! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:45, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

When are we getting Semantic Internal Objects?--Relyk ~ talk > 04:38, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I can't remember why that didn't get into this upgrade package, but do we need it? Is there something that #subobject won't work for? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:48, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
There shouldn't be. I'm not a fan of the syntax, I guess I have to get used to it. Actually, I don't know why I don't like suboject.--Relyk ~ talk > 05:01, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

User:Relyk/Vendor item cost, how2pass arbitrary parameters to a template from arraymap?--Relyk ~ talk > 17:53, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not possible due to how MediaWiki parses parser functions and expands templates. Parser functions first, then templates, so your example would result in {{currency{{!}}karma{{!}}100}} – and that’s not a valid expression which will make {{currency}} expand. poke | talk 18:01, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Arraymap is for when you want to perform the exact same action on each element of the array. That's not what you're trying to do there - you should be using #explode instead.
{{#vardefine:foo|karma;100}} {{currency|{{#explode:{{#var:foo}}|;|0}}|{{#explode:{{#var:foo}}|;|1}}}} —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:01, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Will do. I wanted to avoid using #explode as a solution lol.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:15, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Another thing: it doesn't make sense to have to enter type,amount. The order should be amount,type. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
And then also get rid of the comma :) amount type, e.g. 100 karma. poke | talk 19:16, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
To match semantically? I'm listing type first because that's how it's passed into the currency template.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:21, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
@poke: That assumes you don't use spaces within type, otherwise explode will split it up, e.g. 5 bauble bubble. #explode can only return 1 element. I suppose you could instead assume that amount will never have spaces (much safer) and use #pos and #sub to chop them apart, but that's even messier than the #explode solution.
@Relyk: But semantics don't care 'bout templates. Data entry should be natural for the user to type. And I never liked that order in the currency template - pretty sure you can find me saying that on the template's talk page - and we shouldn't be using that template in any case, right? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:25, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I meant semantically as opposed to templates. We will need the currency or similar template to generate the right icon from the item cost record whichever way it's implemented...--Relyk ~ talk > 19:42, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

[206b4e3b] 2013-05-13 20:43:54: Fatal exception of type MWException, broke the wiki, stopping for now.--Relyk ~ talk > 20:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, make anonymous references to subojects--Relyk ~ talk > 20:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Expansion pack

I think it actually is news. Anet has confirmed that they have interest to launch an Expansion pack, but they never confirmed to actually be developing one. Even a few weeks/months ago they told that they were not developing one... Until now --Landon144 (talk) 15:03, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

It's corporate buzzspeak that doesn't confirm anything. "Preparing" doesn't mean that they're actually developing, they could still be in the early discovery or design phases. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:13, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I consider "preparing" as big news too, especially because, as I said, a few months ago they said they were not working on an expansion pack. --Landon144 (talk) 15:32, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I think that's something we would note on Upcoming changes and features rather than the news in any case.--Relyk ~ talk > 15:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
NCSoft didn't say anything in May 2013 that is new since Dec 2012, when ANet said, "we are actively working on a bigger expansion as well...we don’t have a real timetable set ... Our major focus live updates. ...we do have a small group of people that is working on expansions and stuff down the road as well. " [1]. The "and stuff" tells us that expansions are just in the idea phase. The company has to prepare for success, so of course they spend some time discussing how/what/when for expansions. It will be news when NCSoft says, "we are providing ANet with funds to build an expansion" or ANet says, "we are taking people off the Live Story to work on expansions." Until then, as Dr Ishmael says, it doesn't mean anything has changed.
upcoming changes and features is where I found the quote above. 15:44, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


I can't get it to set multiple records in a property of a suboject with the |+sep= parameter or #arraymaps >.>--Relyk ~ talk > 04:12, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

That's because it's an upcoming feature in SMW 1.9. We have SMW 1.8. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 05:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
silly me--Relyk ~ talk > 21:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

lul--Relyk ~ talk > 21:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


{{#ask:[[Has item type::+]]}} comes with a nice little MySQL error. :(--Relyk ~ talk > 22:22, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Zone Location Lists

A little while ago, you (I think) added notations in the Location lists ie solo battle/quiz/ etc next to skill points. Is this the way you want to go or was it an experiment? --Claret (talk) 20:13, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure anymore, I've extended myself into so many different projects that I've forgotten what I was doing there. I thought it had gotten a topic on the Cartography project or somewhere but I can't find anything now. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:21, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I had noticed you thinning out and becoming extended - I'll leave it for now, I was not over-fond of the idea but then... --Claret (talk) 20:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
One of the worst things as a man is when a woman tells you "I had noticed you thinning out." Felix Omni Signature.png 21:07, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
This conversation could get silly very quickly, so I will keep my humour to myself and snigger quietly. --Claret (talk) 21:10, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
sniggerdoodles--Relyk ~ talk > 00:05, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Locators for Wayfarer Foothills

Hey, I was wondering if you could supply a new locator svg for Wayfarer Hills, we're currently in the works of preparing the maps for uploading and Cragstead is still missing from any of the svgs here. Even the map svg (or any single area) would be enough, if you can :) --Tera (talk) 21:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Done, guess I just forgot the locators after F&F - I did the raster maps and then went to bed, probably. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. You have no idea how often that happens to me. ;) --Tera (talk) 05:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Using {{trait icon}} more

Hi. I was looking at lists of traits that affect skills, and thought how more useful the lists would be if the trait icon would show up as well. You have the trait line name most of the time in the list, the trait's name and mostly its description as well. Its icon could immediately give an idea how deep you'd have to invest in that line, without having to click. Would it be possible to run your bot to change those lists on skill type pages to make that change? And perhaps at the same time, replace the '*' with a ':' as they're mostly lists. --Alad (talk) 18:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

The formatting doesn't lend itself well to a find/replace bot, sorry. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:43, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh look

Recipes seem to be a thing now.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Huh? :o poke | talk 11:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
^ —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:02, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Guessed translation: recipes have an API which we can harvest data from. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:19, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Maps/SVG on External Website?

Hey! First of all let me say you did a fantastic job on the maps and especially their locators - I'm sure it took you a lot of time, but it was definitely worth it. I've been working on a website using the new Events API, and I was really hoping I could use your map/locators for it. I've managed to overlay your raster on top of the SVG and implemented a nifty script that highlights the area of the active event the user currently has his mouse on. I think it looks pretty awesome and makes it so much easier to figure out where an event is compared to everyone's early implementation of the API :)

So I was wondering if you'd let me use them on that website once it launches, and if so how to credit you (and ArenaNet possibly, not sure exactly how the copyrights work there). I can make it quite prominent if you want, or just put it in a credits page if you want. I hope that's OK with you and there's no copyright issue that would make it impossible, if not I understand and don't worry about it. Let me know what you think. Cheers --Uttar (talk) 11:01, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow, cool! I didn't think anyone would find much use for them outside the wiki, so I definitely feel honored by this. Anet owns the copyright to the maps themselves, of course. Based on advice from a more knowledgeable user, the SVG shapes are original enough that Anet probably can't claim copyright on them, so I released them under the wiki's default GFDL, which basically says that anyone else can use them as long as they also present them under the GFDL. If you want to credit me for my work, just link back to my userpage here. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:30, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Awesome! :) Do you know if I need explicit legal permission from ArenaNet to use the full-size images (e.g., or would a simple copyright notice (e.g. be enough? BTW, one reason I've been changing some event names/fixing typos is that my website/program is parsing a *lot* of stuff on the wiki (e.g. it figures out the meta-event chains by parsing each meta's page) and computers are notoriously bad at understanding typos ;) I haven't changed much yet but might take a few hours to do changes in bulk on Sunday - is there any guideline I should follow or any talk page I should mention this before doing it? --Uttar (talk) 14:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't worry about getting explicit permission as long as you include a copyright notice.
How many changes are you talking about, approximately?
Protip: When you move a page, be sure to update any pages that link to it - use "What links here" under the Toolbox in the sidebar. Don't worry about user or talk pages that link to it, though, we don't really care if they get outdated. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:47, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I forgot to tell you, but I launched the website yesterday! :) Hope you like it: [2]
Also thanks a lot for the tip. I haven't had the time to do those changes yet so it will probably have to wait until this weekend, but I expect it'll be about 100+ small changes. We'll see how it goes! --Uttar (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
Oooh, shiny! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:51, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Icon links

Broken =\ 128x delta links to 64x delta, 32x links to 32x delta and 32x delta links to 32x. MalGalad 09:31, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

They're all listed out if you just use the link to the folder. But thanks for letting me know. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:32, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Recipes template issue

Do you know why Ruby Crystal has 4 recipes listed when only 3 are given? --JonTheMon (talk) 17:17, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Ruby Orb uses the wrong template for "recipes requiring". —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:43, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Good catch. thanks. --JonTheMon (talk) 19:47, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Has item type

Will we be working around the subproperty functioning until it works correctly? ^^--Relyk ~ talk < 03:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not expecting it to change anytime soon, it's not a high-priority feature for the SMW devs. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:12, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
So it's a SMW bug, not our configuration?--Relyk ~ talk < 09:34, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
It's not even a bug, that's simply how they designed subproperties to work. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 11:57, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

API names

You recently congratulated someone for changing the names to the API names but, as far as I can see, where there is a difference, anyone searching on the name they see in game will not find a match. I know there are multiple redirects but are people sure this is the way to go? You need in-game names for people to search on and api-names for the routine such as "is this active" to work on.

A suggestion MIGHT be to keep the in-game names and add another parameter for those where there is a difference for the api calls to work on eg for event Rescue Mepi's moa herd from the bandits (in-game name) {{Event infobox | level = 4 | area = Bandithaunt Caverns | indicator = flag | heart = Help Cassie around the moa ranch | api name = Rescue Mepi's moa herd from the bandit caves | event_prev = Stop the bandits from poaching Mepi's moas }} and, in very pseudo-code on click see where active from api if exists api name then use it else if canonical name then use it else use pagename

Please move this to a better area, I couldn't quite work out which would be best.

Hope this makes sense. --Claret (talk) 15:09, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The API names are the in-game names, they're based on the same string files that are in Gw2.dat. Can show me a recent screenshot showing an event name that differs from the API?
And to be clear, I thanked them for following up on the page moves, not for anything specific. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I know you did, it was just leading into my section. :)
I will have to go back to Queensdale and hope the Rancher Mepi stuff is not (as usual) bugged. It also depends on persuading people to let the previous two events fail. Get back to you. --Claret (talk) 15:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Found one by guesting - you're right, sorry. It's bugged on most servers so I was lucky. --Claret (talk) 15:53, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for checking. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:07, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Now {{area events}} seems to have stopped working, intermittently, sheesh. --Claret (talk) 16:09, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
I don't suppose your fix of commas in names broke it???? --Claret (talk) 16:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Nope. Where is it broken? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:38, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Altar Brook Vale, Altar's Windings, Bandithaunt Caverns, Beetletun Farms for a start, Two differnt browsers, caches flushed. --Claret (talk) 17:12, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Fudge, yes, that was my fix. Fixed the fix.
The reason you saw it "intermittently" is because of the wiki cache. The wiki has to parse the wikicode of a page into HTML, and that HTML version is stored in a cache for 24 hours so it can be served quickly without having to re-parse the wikicode every single time someone accesses that page. The pages you saw had been recently re-parsed. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I understood that. Cheers. --Claret (talk) 18:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Leaving blank values in Locations

Hi, I have left a bunch of {{area events}} around. Several reasons, (1) in case someone creates an event and forgets to add it to the area(s). It's terribly common, I found very many when "updating" areas. That's very many. (2) It indicates that there are not any events in case people are looking for them. I think that's useful. At the end of the day, it's a style/judgement call and it's not the end of the world whichever choice is made.

I suppose a version of area events with a subsection title and that is completely blank would be an alternative but that's another matter. I had hoped to get someone to write an {{area pois}} routine when they were really looking for work. Sometime… --Claret (talk) 22:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I assume you're referring to this edit? That is specific to the infobox, and specifically because leaving some parameters with a blank value will prevent the defaults from being used. It's simply bad practice, in any case.
That has nothing do with the area events template, which doesn't take any parameters. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Darn it, I realised what you meant as soon as I pressed the button. It's late in my time zone, (excuses, excuses). Sorry. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Claret (talkcontribs) at 23:00, 9 June 2013‎ (UTC).
(edit conflict)I think this is more about the use of {{area events}} on area articles where no known events exist *yet*. For example Township of Claypool. (or not) poke | talk 23:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
Can we omit the entire section if no events are found? We only need the section if there are known events in the area. Can say the same about the other locations, if vistas and waypoints had properties and subobjects and stuff.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
What would be nice is a version of {{area events}} that adds the subsection header and list of events IF there are any, otherwise return a blank. They could be "stealth" sections and only appear if and when needed. Similarly hearts and pois,but I can dream. --Claret (talk) 08:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Did a change to the template that allows this with {{area events|show header=y}} but I’m not really happy with it as an empty list results in extra whitespace… Can’t really get rid of that :/ (See this revision as an example) poke | talk 11:16, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Is there any particular reason to use the intro/outro within the arraymap rather than putting them after/before and outside it? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
No point in having a header parameter, either it either shows a message by default with the header seperate or it only displays something if events are found. Also, what arraymap alex?--Relyk ~ talk < 11:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
That's what I saw on the Claypool test version. Nothing if there was no events, a header if there was. --Claret (talk) 11:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
The point of the parameter is to not break existing usages… And Alex, the benefit of using the intro parameter is that I don’t need to check if the #ask returns any real output first but can just leave the detection of that to SMW itself. Because the intro parameter is only used if output is generated (so it’s reversed to the default parameter). poke | talk 11:49, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

saving pre-redirect content as a comment is dumb (it's in the page history)

"saving pre-redirect content as a comment is dumb (it's in the page history)"

You probably forgot that anons aren't allowed to remove sections, based on the automatic rules that you administer. But even allowing for a poor memory, you could have just removed the extra text. Instead, you had to make a comment that can easily be taken the wrong way. Did you mean that the edit was dumb? That the editor was dumb? That it was dumb to leave the text in, even though you knew it wasn't intended? And you guys wonder why some people don't like to edit the wiki. 18:35, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry if you took it personally, but I clearly stated that "doing X is dumb," not that "you are dumb for doing X." I don't put the blame on the user, because I realize they probably just don't have the knowledge/experience that I have to be able to know what is dumb or not (or in this case, they edit anonymously even though they obviously know that there are extra limitations on anonymous users). However, when I see someone doing something that is inefficient, bad practice, or otherwise "not right," I'm going to be bluntly honest about it. You've been around long enough that you should know that about me by now.
And no, I didn't think of the AbuseFilter section removal rule. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:49, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
That would be me. A lot of the removal rules are to handle vandal bots. There actually is an exception in that particular filter to try to turn it off for repeat users, but for some reason it's not treating IPs as repeat users. I'll take a look at it and see if we can tweak it to account for some of these situations. --JonTheMon (talk) 20:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Hmm, there isn't a good way around it for now. We might be able to put in some exceptions for creating a redirect or only removing text (vandal bots remove sections then replace with random sentences). We'll try some of them out to see if things work better.
Also, Ish, it might help to be more specific than "dumb" in the future. Inefficient, cluttered, maintenance issue, poor form, etc. Just a thought, since there is that "wiki image issue" that's come up lately. --JonTheMon (talk) 21:18, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Exception for redirect sounds good to me. And I'll try to be less dumb with my comments. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I implemented both ideas (having #redirect or adding nothing are let through; for other admins: [3]) so let me know if it's not working as intended. --JonTheMon (talk) 22:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
What's the reason for restricting removal of sections? I've noticed it's been a problem for anons in a few cases. Not that I'm saying to remove it ^^--Relyk ~ talk < 22:46, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
A common spambot technique is to follow a section edit link, then replace the editbox content with the spam payload. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:50, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed some spammers will add text and/or a section header to the bottom of the page. Is there a reason to restrict section removal and not section addition? Anons have also had problems removing sections they accidentally added.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:17, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I’d actually prefer accepting more spam over shutting out valid anonymous users. So we might just want to make the filters less strict. poke | talk 23:22, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I'm a bit baffled here. I thought we were starting to recognise some of the problems the wiki faces in terms of the community - but here I see "I'm sorry if you took it personally", which isn't an apology, and "I realize they probably just don't have the knowledge/experience that I have to be able to know what is dumb or not" which is... I don't know what to call it. It's cringeworthy.
Instead of "they edit anonymously even though they obviously know that there are extra limitations on anonymous users", it would have been better to consider the question "why is Abusefilter catching out legitimate editors?".
And the edit summary which started this was along the lines of "you did it wrong", not "here's a better way of doing it (and here's why)".
I'm not sure what advice I should give. Jon's right, being more specific and less inflammatory would help, but there seems to be a deeper issue here. It's more than just how something is being said - ten smilies couldn't smile away the lack of a certain level of respect for other users (and this isn't the first time this has come up). I'm not capable of making the kind of rousing speeches that'll fix that. I'm open for suggestions. -- pling User Pling sig.png 04:43, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
dam, shots fired -Auron 05:01, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Map: Border between Sloven Pitch and Cozen Desolation

It wouldn't normally matter, and perhaps it doesn't even now, but the border between those 2 areas is slightly off. When you walk around there and put your cursor on the mini-map, you can see which area you're in. In this case, the entrance to Vexa's Lab, which is a small round red patch just west of the vista, happens to be across the border from the vista, in Cozen Desolation. The border seems to be more to the north, with the vista being just outside it, in Sloven Pitch. I've made some screenshots of 4/5 positions that are just in Cozen Desolation (i.e. where the border is). Would you like me to upload them or do you want to go and investigate this small stretch of border yourself? --Alad (talk) 07:02, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The name displayed on the minimap has play, you can move pretty far into another area before the name changes. The best way to get which map is to re-log at the position--Relyk ~ talk < 09:03, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
I drew the borders based on the region of map that was uncovered when my character discovered a new area. This does not match to the minimap's area name 100%, and I had to fudge a few borders based on map objectives - waypoints, pois, and vistas also appear when you discover an area (skill points are always visible and hearts don't appear until you enter their active region or talk to a scout), and some of them are outside of the uncovered map region for the area. One example I remember is the vista in Borealis Forest.
As Relyk pointed out, areas do overlap a bit, too (which in my opinion is just horrible map design; non-orthogonal topologies should DIAF). So I don't think it matters all that much in this case. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Ok, we'll leave Vexa's lab entrance as being in Sloven Pitch, then, since this is where the round red blob appears on the wiki map. --Alad (talk) 16:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)


Dragon Bash icon--Relyk ~ talk < 03:53, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

These? 128x128 64x64 Or do you mean a different icon? Pie Formation (talk) 05:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
The map icon isn't in the current archives as far as I can tell.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I still don't see it in the current build's UI/32x32 folder, either. I'll take a closer look tomorrow. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 05:33, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
Confirmed through uMod, it's the 64x64 texture shrunk to 32x32 for the map icon. I hate it when they make exceptions to the rules. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:23, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
The Dragon Effigy icon is the same way, original 64x64 texture. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


Happy Father's Day! Felix Omni Signature.png 18:30, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

derived attribute icons

I added icons for the following attributs (crappy screenshots) could you add nicer once?

Thanks - Yandere Talk to me... 23:54, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think we need icons for derived attributes since we won't use them.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:59, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
In order for Attribute to maintain internal consistency, yes, every attribute with an icon on the Hero panel should have an icon on the wiki.
Textures uploaded. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:05, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Oh those--Relyk ~ talk < 00:06, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Thinks I removed the white border, so now they look more or less in line with the other attributes. - Yandere Talk to me... 01:02, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Recipe sheets

I would like to have you input and perhaps the help of your bot regarding this topic: Template_talk:Item_infobox#Recipe_sheets

Thanks! - Yandere Talk to me... 13:44, 18 June 2013 (UTC)


{{item type}} is eatin brackets.

{{Item type|Minor Rune of Balthazar}}

Rune, Rune

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[{{Item type|Minor Rune of Balthazar}}]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

[[[[[[[[[[[[[[{{Item type|Minor Rune of Balthazar}}]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

I think it's coming up from how I'm doing {{item type result format}}? I remember encountering this issue before.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:29, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

NPC Template Levels

I noticed that levels on NPC templates is now saying invalid entries when more then 1 number is entered. As well NPCs can various different levels throughout the game. What is the verdict on how to handle NPC levels?--Suddenflame123 (talk) 21:09, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Dragon Effigy icon

Hey, can you do me a favor and put the Dragon Effigy map icon from the game on the wiki? The article doesn’t have the icon (where it should appear), and I would like to use it on the maps. Thanks! poke | talk 23:19, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Nevermind, I had some help! :) poke | talk 23:27, 20 June 2013 (UTC)


I don't post new topics on my talk page very often, but... MAPS! (based on Clint's example)


...and now I bemoan the fact that the Maps extension doesn't support custom layers right now. ;_; —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:12, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

holy shit, totally missed the new API. Have fun figuring it out.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:20, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Well, that's good news. But your maps are great and utterly sufficient. :) --Alad (talk) 05:57, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
[[User:Dr ishmael/leaflet]] is awesome ;) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 10:08, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
There are 2 things on my wishlist right now:
  1. Names for skill challenges. (Probably won't happen since it would require linkage between static map data and semi-dynamic NPC/object data.)
  2. Polygons for sectors (areas).
I'll go post that on the forums now. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:49, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Very nice indeed! Can we see the npcs walking on the map too? :D No, but seriously, if this can be made to function a bit faster (lags a lot on my pc) we could perhaps filter out things and leave just what's needed, like events currently occurring. (Getting tired of seeing "any events?" in map chat...) --Alad (talk) 18:54, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
The map API only has coordinate data for the points I'm already displaying (completion objectives) and sector/area name labels. Cliff already said that they can't provide dynamic map corrdinates (specifically he mentioned "vendor locations") (yet!), so NPC and event locations won't be coming through the API. Of course, that wouldn't stop a developer from assigning unofficial and static coordinates to an event or NPC and displaying a marker for them. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:09, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Someone on reddit wanted to start a spreadsheet for static coordinates on events. Will we be storing coordinates in the infobox? I don't think it's needed if we don't need semantic maps.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:19, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
That would only be necessary if we were using Semantic Maps to display dynamic maps like this. Since SMaps dropped support for custom layers, I say screw 'em. This Leaflet.js is wonderfully simple to use, and since we're already using a JS widget to build the map object, there's nothing wrong with querying the API for the coordinates at the same time. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:36, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
For some reason the leaflet widget is not working for me in Firefox Nightly. I get a “ReferenceError: encodeIds is not defined” and a fully zoomed out display without any map background. poke | talk 20:32, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
I was trying to put chat links in the popups for poi markers, didn't work. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:36, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Hmm, it seems to work now, but is terribly slow. The original jsfiddle example works fine. poke | talk 20:45, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
That's probably because it's generating ~1500 markers with ~1000 popups and loading 24 map tiles at the same time. Restricting it to a single map/zone (my eventual goal) will probably help a lot. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:52, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Super handy API. Definitely helped compiling the sector list. MadMaxx (talk) 22:14, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

UPDATE: Test page now shows {{#widget:LeafletTest|zone=Dredgehaunt Cliffs}}, and it loads MUCH faster than the all-Tyria map. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:24, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey Doc, i bet you'll like this: ;) Look over here for the code: --Smiley™ de: user | talk 09:26, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Awesome wiki maps of awesomeness! :D see: de:Benutzer:Smiley/GW2Maps --Smiley™ de: user | talk 19:52, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
That’s pretty cool, well done! Although I’m not really sure if we can add these to standard location articles without cluttering those. So maybe subpages are more useful. Or maybe expanding maps that open when clicking on the (static) map image in the infobox? poke | talk 21:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Ok, i'd say, we're in beta state. I've pimped the widget a bit to fit all purposes (i hope :D) and Think has implemented it to the main namespace already - see: de:Widget:Karte. Examples: map of Queensdale: de:Königintal/Interaktive Karte and a task page: de:GW2Wiki:Projekte/Interaktive Karten/Helft Bäuerin Eda. Unfortunately i don't get the popup to open on the task page or when you click a link on the Queensdale map. Tell me if you guys have an idea. --Smiley™ de: user | talk 21:16, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Why would you need a fully dynamic map on a task page? Seems a bit excessive. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:35, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
...because i can! haha. No, we're still figuring out best usability. My first idea was to have a button to expand the map on the current page using Scriptaculous' Effect.Morph() since theres nothing similar to that in jQuery. I've ported that thing to prototype (ok, i actually ported it from proto to jq), just to learn that prototype and jQuery don't like each other... Anyway, this is still a test - ideas are welcome ;) --Smiley™ de: user | talk 23:22, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Update: de:GW2Wiki:Projekte/Interaktive Karten/Bücherwurm Bwikki vs. File:Bookworm Bwikki's path.jpg --Smiley™ de: user | talk 18:16, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

fm table

Is it just me or is the table formating terible off: Mop_Of_Avenging? - Yandere Talk to me... 14:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Nah. I've localized the problem, it happens only if you set cape/ring/accessory/amulet in the Item Stat Lookup, this values of "type" forces an additional line-break to appear. Also, sometimes strange Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "[". appears if I set type to any armor... MalGalad 14:54, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Extra whitespace from #if's that don't trigger for trinkets.
@Mal: it seems to be working fine on armor, Seraph-Issue Coat. Where do you have problems? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:03, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
E.g. [[User:Malgalad/Sandbox|here]]. MalGalad 15:26, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
You haven't specified the weight class. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:30, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
Aha. But can't it be a bit more... explaining? MalGalad 16:18, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
That error message is from the ParserFunctions extension, I can't do anything about it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:42, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

SMW limits

Do you know of any hard limits to how many times SMW can be called from a page? It might not have been that (there were some extraneous brackets somewhere in the ones that broke the update page), but it'd be good to know when we might want to consider incremental updates or just using alternate templates. --JonTheMon (talk) 20:10, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

smw:Help:Configuration doesn't seem to have any setting for "max number of #ask queries allowed on a page." I did see a couple unclosed {{skill icon| templates - I tried to fix one - and they may have attempted to consume the entire rest of the page as the parameter value, passing that into the SQL as a where condition. Which could certainly cause a massive performance hit on the database. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:49, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, once poke properly closed all the template calls, his sandbox worked fine. Man, that's kinda scary, but it makes sense. --JonTheMon (talk) 20:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Space may be the final frontier

but it's made in a Hollywood basement.. 04:26, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

And Cobain can you hear the Spheres singing songs off Station to Station? Who are you and how do you know the only song I ever achieved 100% on Expert Vocals in Rock Band? :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:33, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

more property duplication

Gift of Knowledge, so random--Relyk ~ talk < 13:20, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Not random at all, really. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:55, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
blegh, didn't think about tracking the subobjects it's grabbing.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:06, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Skill links

I'm planning to finish "professional" skills today, and want to hear your thoughts about what skills are worth to be documented next. My next step will be siege weapons in WvW, but the step after it... there's a hell lot of different bundles, environment weapons, items, transforms etc. Imo, after siege should be documented temporal areas, e.g. Dragon Ball Arena, because they will be historical soon, but what next - I can't imagine. Too wide variety, from underwater organ and fireworks to keg/costume brawl and mortars near Shatterer (not to mention it will require a lot of time and money to do all by myself). Ah, and eventually I'll bruteforce all 19k skill IDs, and eventually will try to dig out unlinkable skills, like ranger pet's ones (example) MalGalad 15:11, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Definitely grab the special arenas while you can. You could use GW2DB for pet skills - the only problem is that they haven't updated their code to the new identifier byte of 0x07 (still use 0x06) and they include a "quantity" byte like for item links, so their skill links don't work in-game. They still contain the skill ID, though, you just have to decode and re-encode with the correct identifier byte to get a link you can use.
Also, I just added the id parameter to Template:Skill infobox, see it on Drop Antidote. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Wow, usage of database didn't come to my mind... I'll use it, but I can not ensure that IDs are up to date and, moreover, still used in-game.
I've added activities and a chunk of WvW siege weaps, will rest the rest of today :D MalGalad 17:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
P.S. forgot to ask, haven't you discussed yet, how to describe skills with 2 IDs?
They keep their database up-to-date (probably an automated process), but I haven't noticed any changes to their front-end in almost 6 months. I.e., I would trust the IDs, even though the front-end generates incorrect game links.
I don't think that's come up yet in any discussions. IIRC, it's only ever 1 trait that affects a skill, right? How about... setting up parameters trait and traited facts (the current variables will be renamed to facts with an upcoming overhaul) to list the trait that affects the skill and the modified skill facts, respectively? I envision this being displayed below the standard description and facts, something like:

Inscribe a mark that causes fear when foes trigger it.

 Damage.png Damage: 92
 Fear.png Fear (1s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration.
 Radius.png Radius: 120
 Range.png Range: 1,200

With Greater Marks Greater Marks:

 Radius.png Radius: 240

— In-game description

Of course, some skills get replaced completely (Drop Antidote/Throw Antidote), maybe we can handle them like we do underwater skills. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
And as for skill IDs, infobox will simply have two fields, right?
For future work, traits that change IDs:
- increasing range: Rifled Barrels Rifled Barrels, Grenadier Grenadier, Spiteful Talisman Spiteful Talisman, Eagle Eye Eagle Eye, Off-Hand Training Off-Hand Training, Long Reach Long Reach, Stronger Bowstrings Stronger Bowstrings
- increasing radius: Blasting Staff Blasting Staff, Greater Marks Greater Marks, Off-Hand Training Off-Hand Training
- making ground-targeted: Packaged Stimulants Packaged Stimulants, Deployable Turrets Deployable Turrets, Consecrated Ground Consecrated Ground, Focused Rituals Focused Rituals, Trapper's Expertise Trapper's Expertise
- changing active/passive mechanics: Absolute Resolution Absolute Resolve, Shielded Mind Shielded Mind, Focused Mind Focused Mind, Perfect Inscriptions Perfect Inscriptions, Greater Marks Greater Marks
- different attunements: Ele Glyph of Renewal, Glyph of Storms
- changing name: Packaged Stimulants Packaged Stimulants
MalGalad 19:18, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Yeesh, dem glyphs. Forgot about those. And displaying the different links... ugh. Not simple at all. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:15, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
"underwater skills". Yeah. Is there an easy way to track skills that changes underwater (or at least changes name)? I was aware of Polymorph Moa/Tuna, but yesterday accidentally found Box of Nails/Piranhas, and I guess there's more such skills... Like property #Has_underwater_equivalent or smth like that? MalGalad 13:28, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
We don't currently have anything like that, no. The profession skill list pages should have them noted, though, like Tornado/Whirlpool on List of elementalist skills. And if they're not on those lists, they should be. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:01, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

deleted pages and minor sigils

Sometimes there are no minor variants of sigils. When you look at Sigil of Leeching this is basiclly how Template:Sigil table should work, but on Sigil_of_Perception you see the first row redlinked. This is because this page did exist once and got deleted, because there is no Minor Sigil of Perception. How do I get the template to work as intended?

There are sometimes only superior variants, but these sigils don't have an overview page so everything is fine. - Yandere Talk to me... 15:28, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Y'know, I bet this is the same bug that's causing properties to get duplicated when a page is moved w/redirect. The code that's supposed to delete semantic data when a page is moved or deleted isn't firing for some reason. Since this is affecting us pretty seriously, and the maintainers don't think it's a real bug because it's not reproducible on most wiki configurations, I'll try to make some time to dig through the SMW code myself. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Oh boy. What a nasty bug. O_o
But yeah this would explain a lot of the odd SMW behavior.
Can we go on one of the wiki configurations, were the bug isn't there, or would that to much work? I never set up a wiki so I wouldn't know - Yandere Talk to me... 16:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Since it's unknown what causes this bug, there's no way to know what config changes would fix it. All that is known is that a few people have reported the bug, but the SMW maintainers can't find a way to reproduce it. We'd have to get Anet to make any config changes anyway, so I'd rather write a patch for SMW than go through a bunch of "that didn't work, let's try THIS!" —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:40, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. - Yandere Talk to me... 21:38, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Inscription icons

Do you know where there is a library/group of inscription icons, ala Hard Inscription? These pages are in a bit of disarray and I can gradually fill them, but the icons are a definite sticking point. --JonTheMon (talk) 19:38, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Not as such, no. What I would do is go to GW2DB, search for e.g. "Hard Inscription," get the filename of each item's icon, then find that same filename in my icon archives. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:54, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
'Kay. I'll get to that when I get home. Thanks --JonTheMon (talk) 20:02, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

ToC double words

See, for example, Warhorn. Seems the ToC is picking up both the icon template and the name of each profession in the headers. --Alad (talk) 02:46, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Alex added sort code, the display:none doesn't hide it in the section header. I don't see why it's necessary because we'll never just show icons in a column adn we have semantic queries for sorting.--Relyk ~ talk < 02:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
I reverted the tango template, that gets used in way too many places where the extra hidden text is unnecessary. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Well implement some sorting for discipline icons somewhere, because Gift#Other_greater_gifts can't be sorted by the third column. (invisible sortcode in the row format would do..) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I had meant to do that, but I got distracted by other things last night. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Suggestions and harassment

I warned Relyk for his involvement in the recent Claret drama, but I have to post here as well. I know you started that section with good intentions. Your point had merit, and if it had merely been brought up as a suggestion and left at that, it would have been totally fine. But... it wasn't. After relyk's post and your agreement with him (still definitely fine), the situation went downhill fast. Claret basically stood up for herself. She was having no part of being told not to post accusatory messages. Without causing problems, without creating drama, Claret simply mentioned that she had no intention of quieting her opinion.
At that point, you really should have dropped it. You tried to give her advice; your point was clear, and it was obvious from Claret's response that she understood your point and opted to ignore it. But it escalated. Relyk posted in response to Claret, his second post, restating the opinion you both had already brought to the page and had already been read and ignored. Felix posts to mention that we really shouldn't be censoring non-disruptive posting, and asks Claret to re-assess her stance. You mistake his comment for a hostile... something, and reply in kind. You guys reconcile quickly, but again, this should really not be continuing. Claret then posts again and gets another round of replies from both you and Relyk confirming that you want her to stop her non-disruptive posting because of reasons.
It should have just been dropped ages ago. The conversation was going nowhere. She obviously had no intention of being censored, and despite this, you guys kept going at it. Back and forth, every party trying to get the last word in - despite the actual content of the discussion having been covered in the first 3 posts!
Anyway, always try to be mindful of your posts and what they're achieving. You went in with noble intentions and the discussion quickly hit an impasse; neither party was willing to budge. But Claret wasn't a "problem." Her edits weren't negatively affecting the wiki or its users. In short, attempting to stop her from posting any accusing comments to ArenaNet accomplishes nothing of value. As soon as you had realized that, you should have backed out. If Claret, in the future, became a problem, you could step in again with a firmer warning down the road; but at present, there was nothing more to be said. Please avoid escalating minor issues in the future if at all possible.
I still love you though <3 -Auron 04:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

I was not "trying to get the last word in". My last two replies (not counting the one I made on Relyk's rant that got moved) were these: 1 Mostly unrelated to the OP, I was directly rebutting statements in her comment there. 2 Since it seemed like my original intent had been completely lost in the ensuing arguments, I tried restating my point succinctly (and making it clear that I was not telling her to stop doing anything), but that didn't help any, so I did give it up.
However, my reply on Relyk's rant page was indeed unwarranted. I was just getting mad at Claret for being so bloody stubborn and refusing to see anything in my motives other than censorship. So I made an angry post that, as I accused you of doing, blew things out of perspective. I am sorry for doing that. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:26, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

recipe list

Look at that list magically fill up, oooooh, ahhhhhh.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:33, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Crafting cataloging kerfuffle

How can I make items which have more than one recipe version (like Minor Rune of the Krait) work with [[Template:Recipe/Requires]]? I want to output the recipe for the steel version on Armorsmith/Steel Recipes, but when I use the recipe template, it lists both, and there doesn't seem to be a way to pick one or the other. Would I just need to make a table manually? Psycho Robot (talk) 01:59, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

{{recipe table
| min rating = 150
| max rating = 200
| discipline = Armorsmith

We still need a parameter for type (armor, component, insignias, runes, bags) and we can generate those articles automatically with a tempalte. But in the mean time:

{{recipe list header}}
{{recipe list row|Minor Rune of the Krait}}
{{recipe list row|Minor Rune of the Krait|2}}
Item Rarity Discipline(s) Rating Ingredients
Minor Rune of the Krait.png Minor Rune of the Krait Masterwork ArmorsmithArmorsmith tango icon 20px.png 50
Minor Rune of the Krait.png Minor Rune of the Krait Masterwork ArmorsmithArmorsmith tango icon 20px.png 150

The second parameter specifies which recipe you want to display if it has multiple recipes. The template probably needs to be moved to recipe table row.--Relyk ~ talk < 02:10, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Short answer: don't use Recipe/Requires anymore. It's outdated and it sucks. {{recipe table}} and {{recipe list}} (and their derivatives) are the new templates that are replacing it. It seems like what wee need for those pages is a query on ingredient + recipe type. Unfortunately, type hasn't been added to all recipes on the wiki yet, so that wouldn't work anyway. You'll have to do it with {{recipe list row}} like Relyk showed. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:16, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
So many crafting templates! I ain't know what's outdated and what's not. I will deign to only use the two that you listed from now on, though. Psycho Robot (talk) 05:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
All these new (up-to-date) templates are in Category:Recipe formatting templates.--Relyk ~ talk < 07:37, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

map icons

Hi, could you look for a clean version of: Activity (map icon).png as well as the Belcher's Bluff map icon: Belcher's Bluff (map icon).png. Thanks! - Yandere Talk to me... 14:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Done, they're in the 32x32 icon set. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Somewhat related: What did you do to File:Magic Find.png to smoothen the blackness like that? We need to do the same to File:XP Gain.png, File:Karma Gain.png and File:Gold Find.png? poke | talk 17:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
All I did was crop, nothing else. You can see the original 32x32 version in the file history; the current version is 22x22. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:23, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh, interesting. Then the MF icon from the account bonuses is a different one; will upload that then separately so we have a consistent look. poke | talk 17:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah, yes, the attribute MF icon and the account bonus MF icon are different textures (536054 and 605030, respectively). I should've thought to mention that before. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:22, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Vendor table row

You should be able to do

||Has item cost={{{cost|}}}
||Has item cost={{{cost2|}}}

like on recipe without some fancy arraymap and stuff right? Shouldn't be a problem to include 2-3 cost parameters since no vendor requires than more than 2 currencies.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:43, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

You're talking about a single vendor entry where the cost is a combination of different currencies, right? Like Laurel merchant's accessories? Yes, that would work just fine. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

The Spreadsheet Thingy

Would it be possible for the spreadsheet you linked me to be modified to contain copypasta code for an entire item page? By that I mean instead of just containing recipe data, it could contain the item infobox too. Take, for instance, Mighty Chain Legs. Eventually I'll need to make a page just like that for every prefix of every piece of equipment for every level of armorsmithing. If you're already pulling data from the API, and could easily change up the spreadsheet such that I could copy and paste an entire page worth of code at once, that would save an enormous amount of time, and I could pretty quickly get pages up for every crafted item. Thanks, Psycho Robot (talk) 01:36, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

I can probably do that, but it won't be until later tomorrow. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:37, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Alright, the workbook has 3 new worksheets for armor, trinkets, and weapons, with compiled wikicode for the infobox, the recipe box, and a composite of both infoboxes with a "Recipe" header. I also made "dumb" hyperlinks to the item's page on the wiki, on the simplistic assumption that the page name is identical to the item name - this is obviously not true in all cases.
For reference, here's the link again: Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:33, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks a bunch. Redundant thanks, Psycho Robot (talk) 04:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I meant to mention: On the recipes worksheet, far to the right, I have a summary list of how many recipes there are of each type, with an X next to each one that I've fully posted to the wiki. I plan on doing Inscriptions and Components next, in order to finish all the non-equipment recipes. Your request here implies that you plan to work on equipment, so we probably aren't going to conflict with each other, I just wanted to get that stated. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:30, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I will do my best to deliberately tread on your toes at every turn. Onto the inscriptions! Psycho Robot (talk) 17:46, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Looking through the spreadsheet, I don't see any mention of simple chain armor (Chain Coat (Simple) et al.). Its not a big deal to me, but I don't know how else to get the recipe id or chat link or all that. Psycho Robot (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Nevermind, I found it. Still, watch your toes. Psycho Robot (talk) 18:13, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I'M BACK AGAIN. The recipe data for Mighty Chain Legs (Simple) is incorrect. The recipe data is outputting 34 defense, but its actually 24. I was ready to say the recipe was wrong too but I checked and I'll be damned, that actually is the recipe. Psycho Robot (talk) 18:34, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
I mistyped the values in the heavy/fine/leggings stat lookup template below level 10. Fixed.
I also updated the armor infobox to recognize the API's names for armor types, so you don't need to modify those anymore. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:05, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm wondering, quite a few of the "skins" for example Dragon's Jade weapon skins aren't present in the spreadsheet, are they not in the api then? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:52, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

The item and recipe APIs have some strange gaps. None of the recipe sheets that are sold for karma show up in item_details.json (including all the rare inscription and insignia sheets), and none of the new Celestial recipes show up in recipe_details.json. If it's not in my workbook, then it's not listed in the API. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:28, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
It's a known bug (that Cliff has acknowledged) that many items from vendors are not properly marked as having been obtained by any players and thus are deemed invalid. You can use chat links to fill in the gaps. 05:04, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Well this sure is making things heaps easier. There's something that I've done that you might have interest in adding to your copy. For armor, since it all looks identical, they all share a single image, for instance File:Chain Helm.png. So I've added an icon line to the infobox code in the spreadsheet, and made a new column with the formula =MID(A2,FIND(" ",A2)+1,1000), which takes the item name, for instance "Mighty Chain Helm", and parses just the last two words, outputting Chain Helm. Depending on what you're doing, this could help out if each one doesn't have its own icon and therefore needs a manually defined one. Psycho Robot (talk) 21:34, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

That's a good idea. Doesn't apply to Components, unfortunately, but I think we already have all of those icons uploaded. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:59, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Ship (Living Story).png

It should be a 64x64 like the ship icon, but couldn't find it. I made one as a substitute for now.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:52, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Next-to-last file in the current delta->add folder. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:07, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
nuuuuu--Relyk ~ talk < 03:49, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Could you point me in the right direction?

Lots of hunting around to figure out what I was missing on my .CSS sheet. Could you recommend again a site to better learn things like that? I can at least say I kind of understand what every line does on my user page. Also do you know or is there a chart for the color 3 digit code used for like warriors in infoboxs? Yoe Dude (talk) 07:21, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey, first of all, you can find a good introduction and furthermore powerful reference for CSS on Mozilla’s Developer Network. If you’re new to CSS, check out the CSS tutorial. As an alternative to MDN, you can also look at the WebPlatform Docs which is a new resource that is currently built by multiple browser vendors and standards people.
That being said, I am afraid I have to tell you that using your personal common.css will not have any impact on users visiting your user page. The personal CSS is only used to enhance your personal browsing experience on the wiki. If you want to apply styles to items in your user page that are visible for others, you will have to use inline styles instead (which unfortunately also limits you in some ways).
Last, we have a reference for the colors we use in infoboxes and such on Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Color schemes. poke | talk 08:29, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
for css, I'd use w3schools. For most of it, you probably have to know what you're looking for first before you can find it, but that's a common theme (nothing a quick google search won't find) - 08:48, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I don’t recommend w3schools – there are better resources available. poke | talk 11:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
I didn't know about the w3 fools site. It is kind of sad and hilarious at the same time. I am genuinely surprised anyone uses w3schools as reliable recource, because you can see pretty fast, that these people do not understand much about documentation. - Yandere Talk to me... 12:03, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer and for the heads up, I just checked, no it don't work =( I guess I must become a master of tables to get this to work for me... happy reading just not right now. Yoe Dude (talk) 21:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)