User talk:Dr ishmael/Archive 9

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.


Can not specify rarity on Vendor table row

I was going to go update the tables on the Dungeon merchant to using the {{Vendor table row}} However it seems that specifying the rarity in the rarity parameter is not working see User:Anzenketh/Sandbox/Page/4 16:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

You can't specify rarity for an item that exists, you update the information on the page you provide the template. You need to provide the specific id since multiple items have that name. Since we don't have the ids for equipment from dungeon vendors as they're accountbound and don't appear in the API, you have to provide the subobject name. For example, the specific pants you want to link to is the Privateer Pants#item2 subobject. The only time you have to do this is when the id isn't available.
You can navigate to a subobject by hitting the Browse properties on the page then checking the subobjects under "Has subobject" for which one you want. It's somewhat clunky obviously.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:25, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Oye that is going to be fun as there are 3 different stat types for each weapon on each rarity row. That would create one massive table. Now I just need to figure out the best way to attach it. I was trying to do this so we could dynamicly update the vendor location. I may go about this a different way. I may just update the table and allow it to collapse. Anzenketh (talk) 16:55, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
The vendor information shouldn't really be on the dungeon merchant page, it's more of an overview for the service rather than an overview of the items they sell.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:18, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
(more added in edit) I am assuming you are talking about the use of vendor tables should not really be used on the dungeon merchant vendors page(eg. Historian Symon page). I agree due to they sell 3 types of each weapon a overview would fit better. I decided to build a systematic query in my standbox to see if I could get the system to query the NPC by name and return it's location then use this to update the item pages regarding acquisition as the the method is limited also running manual query's where needed. Perhaps at one time we could set the appropriate values in the table on their pages. After all my main goal is just to update locations. Why did so many NPC's have to move. Or I could just decide to remove the location if present as the NPC's are prone to move have not decided yet. Anzenketh (talk) 19:13, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I mean the dungeon merchant page. The vendor pages should have an entry for every single item they sell. We may need to push those to a subpage because people will find the overview more useful. The acquisition section for vendors can be replaced by the {{vendor list}}, although I don't want to implement it yet until vendors are updated.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:35, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
I'd argue that it'd be useless data that nobody needs (i.e. no need to use VTR to document them). Its made clear above the table that the vendor sells with 3 different prefixes. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:41, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
(recent edit) I would agree that it is a bit redundant. They do list every item that they sell in consolidated form. The problem is the list has no indication that they are being sold in the first place. I tried using {{vendor table row}} however you can't specify rarity for an item that exists. If we could fix the template so that you can do that then we could use the {{vendor table row}} to document them. The other option is tell SMW they are sold some other way. However I do think that they do need to be documented as a sold item in SMW.Anzenketh (talk) 19:48, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
You don't need to specify rarity, that's done on the item. I changed the Privateer Pants as an example on User:Anzenketh/Sandbox/Page/4, per my explanation earlier.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:56, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Except that he also sells Rejuvenating and Honed of every armor on that skin. That is 18 items for just one skin multiply that by 3 skins. That is a total of 54 items total and that is just the armor. Weapons will be more like 58 items total. Anzenketh (talk) 20:11, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
where would we possibly be querying it using SMW, and thus why bother? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:12, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
On the item pages for all the items that can be acquired from a dungeon vendor. This is for future proofing. If I edit them now then I will have to edit them all again if they ever add another dungeon vendor. Saving a future edit from instead of hundreds to likely just under a hundred. Oh how I hate making repetitive edits that can't be done by a bot. Anzenketh (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
They're not going to introduce duplicate dungeon vendors at this point. Symon is and, in all likelihood, will continue to be the only Ascalonian Catacombs dungeon vendor. Don't make up problems that are unlikely to ever exist, or you'll never finish solving the problems that do exist. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:34, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) be lazy, look only at the special case items. Armor and weapons of the rare rarity are served by {{Dungeon rare armor row}}. We can bot fix any edits for the acquisition section on the armors should they move the vendors again. The tonic, runes, sigils and recipe are exclusive. Only things needing aquisition fixed on this page are the sigils. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:40, 28 May 2014 (UTC)
Well I just created {{location result}} and {{location_result_ul_format}} to solve the move again problem. I figured they could be used in other places too so I thought it was a good template to create anyways. I will be lazy and just update the ones that can't be updated by bots and put together the list that can. Anzenketh (talk) 01:03, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
We can't use the template like that because we may list other NPCs in the same area or zone. I tried using the tree format available for SMW to generate an outline, but it's broken. I dislike formatting the NPC location as an outline anyways because it looks weird in all cases. Any time it's used, you outline the zone then area then a single NPC. I made {{Location result format}} for simple displays of location for handling those very cases :<--Relyk ~ talk < 05:32, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
If we want to use that layout that is fine. But that template also suffers from the same problem see: User:Anzenketh/Sandbox/Page Anzenketh (talk) 13:17, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Generic NPCs shouldn't have specific locations listed in the infobox, didn't you say that yourself? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:02, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes I did. They should either say unspecified or go down to the least common denominator. However that does not change the fact that something Relyk says it does do does not. :P Anzenketh (talk) 14:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't recall Relyk ever claiming that it would handle multiple locations. I think you got his statement turned around: he was saying that a multi-level list format is loaded with redundancies whenever there are 2 or more NPCs listed who are in the same location. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:17, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
(recent edit) My bad I misread his comment. Back to generating my list of pages that need to be updated. Oh and the template {{Location result ul format}} was not designed to query multiple NPC's/Objects it is designed to query a single NPC/Object that has a location. Anzenketh (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
And now {{Location result}} and {{Location result format}} support multiple locations. Anzenketh (talk) 17:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Hey hey hey

Is there a reason why you haven't posted the newest zip file icons? There's a couple of effect pages I need to make which all have new icons that are found in the newest files. I usually find those on your page, but the last one is from 45 days ago. Any reason why? --Ventriloquist (talk) 19:42, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Holding them back just to spite you.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:43, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
I didn't want to have to say it. --Ventriloquist (talk) 19:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Meh, forgot. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:16, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, time to dig in. --Ventriloquist (talk) 21:24, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Itadakimasu! Felix Omni Signature.png 03:12, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

What needs to be cleaned up about it.

You marked Champion loot bag as cleanup. I don't see anything wrong with it. What needs to be fixed about it. Would you mind marking that on the talk page. Anzenketh (talk) 13:14, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I feel like the whole thing needs a rewrite in order to present the information in a clear and concise manner. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:40, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

reverting until it's actually available in-game

Do you know how long that took me (a lot longer than it should have, I'll admit)?! Minutes! But seriously, even though that area can't be accessed in-game, it does exist on the map, and the in-game map has been updated to reflect this. Shouldn't we be making some noise about this, rather than sitting on it? Santax (talk · contribs) 19:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

The wiki's purpose is not to "make noise," it is to document the game as it exists. Yes, you can see a tiny bit of the map addition from the existing areas, but we shouldn't add an entire sector to the map that is still locked away. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:33, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
If you go to Brisban Wildlands, does the map show that corner yet? If yes, it should be mentioned on the wiki somehow. If not, I'd wait; there have been lots of datamined things that never made it into the actual game, and I'd prefer we don't go down that speculative path. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 20:57, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
As Ishmael said, if you look at the Brisban Wildlands map in-game you can see that the map has been modified, but that part of the map is still largely fogged-over since it's inaccessible. So it is in game. Santax (talk · contribs) 21:51, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
The map textures have been modified. The area itself is not in-game because you can't get to it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:12, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Then I don't see any harm in mentioning that the Brisban map was modified (without saying anything one way or another about "it will be a new area soon"). Vili 点 User talk:Vili 22:29, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
Your edit summary about Dominion of Winds - that's not quite the same situation. We have quite a bit of lore about DoW, even though we can't access it. In this case, we have no lore (yet) about this new inaccessible area, we just have the datamined map textures. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

(Reset indent) To be clear, the map texture appears in-game, it just required datamining (or void jumping?) to be visible. A version of the Brisban Wildlands map without that area (so the map as it currently stands, post-revert) is therefore not reflective of the current Brisban Wildlands map. Note the issue here isn't about Brisban Wildlands but the Brisban Wildlands map. The zone itself seems to have undergone little to no change. But the map has, so we should change the map image. And I don't think it would be misleading to do so—I think the question marks do an adequate job of communicating that this is not an "ordinary", accessible area. Santax (talk · contribs) 22:39, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

But you CAN'T see the full new area! You can only see a sliver of it along the edge of the currently available map. Which means the version you created IS misleading, since you added the full thing. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:46, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Might I suggest the compromise of including the unfogged area but not giving it an area outline (neither giving it its own nor expanding one to include it)? I believe this would most clearly reflect the current state of the game. - Tanetris (talk) 02:13, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Let me repeat myself... you CANNOT see the full area in-game. Including anything outside of the borders I drew on the map would not be reflecting the current state of the game. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:16, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Is this any different from any of the other areas that have names on the maps, but can't be entered yet? I'll answer this with a tepid "yes" — I don't remember any previous update adding locations that we can't access, except when those parts of the map were about to figure into the next story. So, there's some foreshadowing involved.
I dunno if that elevates it to something that is "in the game" enough that the wiki should document it. But I really think that's a question for the community, not for the five of us to be discussing this on the talk page of one of the admins. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:25, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
That's not the same thing (I think I've typed that 3 times today) - those inaccessible names have names and lore to go with them. This new area has neither.
And I don't see anything further to discuss - you can't see it in the game, we have no information about it, we should not be updating the Brisban map yet. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:28, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
You can upload an image of the map as long as it doesn't replace our current image, not that it would be useful apart from use on the release page.--Relyk ~ talk < 02:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
Jesus, if it's that important to you that the Brisban map remains pristine, then I don't think anyone cares enough to argue. You'd have to not be paying any attention to recent living story stuff to believe we won't see new developments there soon, is all I'll say. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 02:49, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
@Ish: Using dat-mined images to provide maps that are more unfogged than can be reasonably accomplished in-game is neither new to GW-related wikis nor, in my opinion, misleading so long as the lines clearly show the actual boundaries of what is available.
@TEF: On a semantic note, this is not the talk page of an admin, but the talk page of an involved editor. Ish is not an admin in relation to this issue (or if he thinks he is, I need to go upside his head, but I have more faith in him than to assume that). Otherwise I agree that moving this section to Talk:Brisban Wildlands would be appropriate. - Tanetris (talk) 02:57, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
We document the game game as it exists. We can wait to update future information to avoid confusion. I don't see this map or any map of upcoming content being an exception to that.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Sigil table

Good catch. I began typing some stuff related to the infobox changes but I'll put it in my sandbox until its coherant. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:22, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

personal database query's - Is it possible?

Hi Ish. Cause of my limited knowledge of wiki-code I would ask you if what I have in mind is possible and if you can link me some good sites where I can learn wiki-code and wiki-media to get the right skills to start with. The base of my idea is that we document a lot of data on this wiki. Items, waypoints, vendor's. all this info is already in the infobox (and if I'm right in the SQL-database on the background). Currently the wiki is already showing a lot of very need and innovating ways to display this data. The chosen parameters are often in a template for which you need rather specialized knowledge to change it (even in a sandbox). What I would like to add to this is a very advanced template that gives you all the option available through the different kind of infoboxes and give the user the option to checkmark them and get his own output table without the need of someone smart enough to read wiki. For example. Someone in LA chat today had a question. he had a lot of need for silk scraps and a big load of karma. He had the idea to buy the cheapest light karma gear of the right level, put them into the mystic forge and salvage it for scraps and was looking for the cheapest light armor of the right level. when forging the items you don't want them to be upgraded to 80 (then it will likely drop gossamer instead of silk), it also needs to be above level 63, otherwise you have a risk of getting linnen. So this person is looking for all light karma armor, being sold for level 64-70. This info is available on the wiki, but nobody every thought that someone needed that info in that presentation. A specialized page would make it possible to show all light armor sold by karma merchants. that are level 64-70 and represent that in a table with sortable rows (so the result of a database query). This was just one example. Someone else might be missing a waypoint and remembers that when he was doing maps between level 20-50 he was more sloppy to get full map completion and want all waypoints in area's between level 20-50. I know wikimedia is not designed for this. But do you think it is possible?? What documentation can you advice? And what bumps do you think I might hit? (I know I'm gonna need a wiki account but want to have a prospect that it is possible before I go there). Hope you understand the vision I have in my mind195.240.63.18 20:24, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

You're in luck, we've done most of the work already. We use Semantic MediaWiki to store and query the semantic data (along with our documentation). It's not exactly a relational (SQL) database. If we add level parameters to {{vendor table}}, we can generate the table as seen here. We will eventually have Semantic Forms for generating tables without knowledge of wikicode. We don't store information on waypoints yet.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:04, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Waypoints? Yes we do. In Dredgehaunt Cliffs:
{{#ask:[[Has location type::Waypoint]][[Located in::Dredgehaunt Cliffs]]|mainlabel=-|?Has canonical name=|format=ul|sort=Has canonical name}}
The missing link is that we don't annotate the level range of zones. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:33, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
But the semantic data is stored on subpages! We don't need level annotation on zones since we can query the areas instead. We also have Property:Has map objectives to filter areas for map objectives. Should be able to make that query then?--Relyk ~ talk < 01:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Sneaky assassins.

Hey there, can you help me with this? Our dear Assassin has a number of Ascended recipes linked to it, which SHOULD be linked with the Assassin stat, and not the NPC that shows up in one small part of the entire game. Now, the normal thing I'd do is move it to Assassin (NPC) and edit the current one as a redirect to Item Nomenclature#Assassin. The problem is, I can't move it. It seems that the page was protected or something (I don't really know) and thus, not allowing me to move it. Help me combat this sucker. --Ventriloquist (talk) 08:09, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Go go go! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:24, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

World bosses

Right now, Taida is active. So the standard cycle starts at midnight PT with the Shatterer; that’s 7:00 UTC. Since the 6 events luckily fit well, this basically means that we can assume a cycle starting at 0:00 UTC with Taida. I updated my sandbox to reflect that, you can check it to fix your SMW cycle. I will check the mega bosses now. poke | talk 18:12, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Bah, why did it have to be midnight Pacific... now DST is gonna bite us in the ass come November. Thanks Anet. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:15, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Hence that line on my sandbox: “Rotation resets at midnight PDT making it super awkward given that everything else is usually UTC-oriented.” xD I wonder if it’s really midnight PT, or just a stupid hardcoded fixed UTC-based time… but we’ll see in autumn. poke | talk 18:18, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

To keep in mind for future reference

Hey Ish. I notice you deleted and reverted a user's first two contribs to the wiki without any sort of talk page message. That is not a thing that should happen for non-vandal edits, as it can easily discourage a potential editor. I realize you're not always the best at doing the community relations thing, so if it comes up again feel free to leave it be and pass the buck to someone else more skilled at the proverbial gentle touch. - Tanetris (talk) 21:08, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Widget Zone

I stumbled across your Widget:Zone map while trying to get Leaflet to work in Semantic Mediawiki Maps for Shroud of the Avatar wiki. Your widget is much further along than I am. Would it be alright if I crib from it for my uses? (SotA doesn't have a nice API like GW2 but I think I can cobble stuff together.) Thanks. Fenyx (talk) 20:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Go ahead. You might want to look at the German wiki's version as well, it's even further along. Both of them are essentially mothballed, unfortunately, due to a lack of interest from the community at large. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Shame there isn't more community interest. Seems like there is a lot of information on, like, Plains of Ashford that could be displayed much more clearly and concisely with a map. Fenyx (talk) 21:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm slowly puttering away at this. It is still quite messy... However in case your's or the German version ever gets unmothballed I thought you would be interested in this range of changes. It allows for multiple maps per page. (also see here which is where I got it from) Fenyx (talk) 16:12, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

floating world boss table

Would it be possible to take the {{world boss table}} and throw it into a floating div, so it's always hovering on the page somewhere? Obviously it's a bit large, so formatting out some of the information / reducing it to just the current boss might be necessary.

I wouldn't want to do it as a sitewide thing since some users would find it too intrusive or don't care about world bosses, but it might be a neat thing for people to use personally. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 00:39, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't remember how to make a hovering element offhand, and I don't really have time to research it tonight. All you would need to do is wrap the template call in a div with the appropriate CSS, though. To hide the columns you don't want, you'd use a combination of CSS like this:
/* Hide all cells after the first */
#world_boss_table th+th,
#world_boss_table td+td {

/* Show all cells after the second */
#world_boss_table th+th+th,
#world_boss_table td+td+td {

/* Hide all cells after the third */
#world_boss_table th+th+th+th,
#world_boss_table td+td+td+td {

/* Show all cells after the fifth */
#world_boss_table th+th+th+th+th+th,
#world_boss_table td+td+td+td+td+td {

You'd need some custom JS in order to hide any more rows. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Hmm...well, it's accepting the { float: left !important; } css rule, and floating to the left or right, but not moving as I scroll up and down the page. There's probably something else I need to do, or maybe some other css preventing it from working...I'll tinker with it. Thanks though. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 03:58, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Found it: position:fixedDr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:20, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, I realized that "float" wasn't what I wanted, it's fixed positioning. So that part works...borrowed the css used for the admin noticeboard warning box thing.
Now I just need to figure out how to make the table show up on every single page, like the sitenotice or similar things. The only way I know how to call a template is {{transclusion}}, though - which looks like it just dumps the contents of one page directly onto another. Putting the whole 1700 lines of world boss table html into my personal .js is almost definitely not a smart way to do it. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 05:00, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


Hey - I'm sorry for making a fuss about a certain IP, since it's obvious ban(s) are the only logical choice of action now, and I fully support your actions. Even if a user only makes amazing and helpful edits, circumventing blocks (or at the least, ignoring one's talkpage) makes that user a liability, not an asset.

Also, I appreciate you giving the benefit of the doubt the second time around, and going with a lighter touch. It's a shame it was squandered, since there's so many little pieces of information like that that do need random people to fill them out. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 21:06, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

namespace search


picks up [[Form:Recipe ingredient breakdown]] as a page although it's deleted.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:20, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Eeyup, it sure does. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:14, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Key template

It's probably just an iOS Safari thing, but Template:Key does not work with #. For whatever reason, it produces the key "box", then a new line, then a space (possibly a tab), then 1. I tried every other character possible from the iPad's virtual keyboard and couldn't duplicate the problem - it's purely #. Yes, sorry, this is entirely trivial, but I thought I'd mention it :) — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 16:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Bleh, I didn't even look at that when I saved it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Oh, hah - I guess it was a general fault, then. Presumably # is too special even for templates :D — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 17:56, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
templates are weasels and like to generate their own newline, and the # sign just starts a numeric list because it sees the newline even when we cannot... (old) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:07, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
See, this is why I like Alex. He explains things in such a way that even we numpties can understand. — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 18:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Can not use achievement template.

I was trying to add {{achievement box}} to Discovering Scarlet's Breakthrough but it was not pulling the data.Anzenketh (talk) 15:52, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure how that template is supposed to work. Go bug Relyk. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:59, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Serra Birdsong

Added a "citation needed" tag, then almost instantly a citation was added. Except it isn't. Pardon my cynicism, but i'm cynical. — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 16:29, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Seems legit. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 17:37, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

TOC -- Yes I agree TOC is needed Preview made me scared

Regarding your edit Did you do anything special to keep the TOC out of the section when I was previewing the TOC was being put in the section I was editing. That is why I added the no TOC. Anzenketh (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The TOC pops up after four or more sections. Putting a TOC tag in a template that creates sections leads to unpredictable behavior.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:54, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Short bow madness

Diantha's short bows in the table are messed up. Alex added the incorrect ID for the fine short bow, which corresponds to the Amulet of Thorns, not the fine variant. When trying to edit it, it shows the correct ID, for some reason. What am I missing? --Ventriloquist 18:03, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Psycho Robot screwed up the semantic data when he moved the short bow's page without blanking it first. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:09, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Only human sorry. :/ I must have updated quite a few of those.. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:20, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
There was nothing wrong with the IDs, I'm not sure where Ventriloquist got that from - if you compare the history across all of his recent revisions, there's no change. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:26, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that one's my bad; I thought that the item position corresponds with the ID, as in the ID he added (23899) for the SBow was referring to just that - the short bow, but it was actually correct, because it linked to the Amulet of Thorns. Psycho made the table mixing both the weapons and accessories together, but Alex changed it so that accessories go first and then weapons/armor, which confused me. --Ventriloquist 19:46, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Ahah! That makes perfect sense - you expected it to match the in-game vendor list, which Psycho's version did, but Alex doesn't have the game so he sorted it logically. Thus causing your brain to short-circuit and confuse the rest of us. Hooray! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:49, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit Freaking Conflict

re: temple armor renewal

I'm reminded of the fact that in the early days of the Ford Motor Company, there was a time when there were only two cars in the entire state of Michigan. Naturally, they had an accident. In wiki history, I only edit perhaps 10 articles a month...and you managed to be working on the same one at exactly the same time (fortunately for you, your edit was first). I'll take another look at the article, but my guess is you saw the same issues I did and have already cleaned it up. (I'm not inclined to spend another 30 minutes comparing now, as you can well imagine based on your recent joy at reviewing the last version).

Oh well. Life in the big wiki. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:03, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

I did that as part of a massive editing spree across all of the temple armor pages. Most everything should be accurate to the current game state now, but as long as you're here, I wouldn't mind a second look over everything. :) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
"Here" is an exaggeration, but I will set aside more time for the wiki in the next week and take a closer look. Aside from spot checking, anything to which I should pay more attention? less attention? – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
I did post some to-dos on the talk page over there, but I guess the most important is making sure that other pages that reference the temple armor are updated appropriately. I wasn't really able to keep track, as I was going through ~150 pages, of what all was linking where. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:42, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Soothing Mist

Can you help me find the stupid icon for this stupid page? I can't seem to find it and the current icon we have is just Relyk's screenshot(?) and the mystery surrounding this icon is tormenting me. Heeeelp. --Ventriloquist 10:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

It's not 128x, I bet that's why you couldn't find it. It was in the first "break" of non-item icons in the 64x textures. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
I was actually looking through 32x32 icons, because effect icons usually are 32x32, now I feel cheated. Thanks for clearing that out. --Ventriloquist 12:40, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Right, I meant 32x, was thinking of skills for some reason. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:37, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Item Infobox & Swimming Miniatures

Could you take a look at my question at Template_talk:Item_infobox#Miniatures? I'm really asking: what's the best way to document the "swimmability" of miniatures, so that we can auto-synch any relevant articles. (Also to make sure we've tested whether or not they swim.) (And yes, anyone else who stalks Ish should chime in.) Feel free to move to a new talk page if the infobox isn't the way to go. Thanks! – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:17, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Entroy weapon trail

That's not the weapon's trail, that's the Guardian Mighty Blow skill, specifically, the blast finisher animation. The only "trail" the weapon has, is a static effect around it, the purple lights; it follows the head of the hammer and not the entire hammer/player. --Ventriloquist 14:13, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Okie dokie. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:16, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

New release icons

Hey, before you upload any of the new icons - could you do it, separately, like you did it last time? The new icons were found in a new folder and the old ones were just updated with the previous release. It makes it easier for me to see which icons are new, and which aren't. --Ventriloquist 19:25, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

That's what I always do in the delta file. Last time I accidentally pasted the links backwards, so I'm guessing you "discovered" the delta file before I was able to correct them.  :) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:28, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Uh, since you're here, (talkcontribslogsblock log) is running rampant, deleting everything from the patch notes. Can't fix it until he stops. --Ventriloquist 19:30, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Blocked, and Poke protected the page at the same time. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:33, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
Good luck with the new recipe icons. I commend your bravery for doing it; I would have done it, if you didn't jump in, but I'd rather preserve my sanity. --Ventriloquist 14:29, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
I have a database that I can sort/filter, and the icon usage is, surprisingly, completely consistent. The hard part is just editing all ~1000 recipe sheet pages on the wiki. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:31, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Can't you just smack a bot into doing it? Isn't it just basically changing the icon in the infobox section? --Ventriloquist 14:32, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
I could, but it would take effort to set that up, and I don't mind doing it this way because it lets me do other things as I go - clean up extraneous parameters, add IDs, etc. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:34, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
That's commendable. Now, get in 'ere and get your hands dirty! --Ventriloquist 14:38, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
For anyone following along, I've updated the icons for all recipe sheets that appear in the API. All of the remaining pages that use the old icon do not appear in the API due to the annoying bug that still affects karma vendor item discovery. It shouldn't be too difficult to verify that they follow the established icon standards - I already checked the master-craftsman-sourced inscriptions/insignia/jewels last night, and I'll get them updated shortly. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:51, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Oh right, anomalies: there are some. Mostly with the new recipe sheets from Dry Top - the ambrite weapons all use the old icon, and the feast recipes are all Fine even though the output items are Masterwork. Also, the API has two recipes for Fine swords, but they both use the sword-recipe icon with a green background instead of blue. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:22, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Done with all recipe sheets on the wiki that I know of. The remaining pages that use File:Recipe Sheet.png are all historical, and the ones that use File:Recipe sheet.png are the new ambrite weapons, which legitimately use it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:24, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't know...

Relyk Ishmael recipes.png

--Relyk ~ talk < 23:31, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I haven't seen a single Foxfire thingie yet, been too busy working on the story achievements, so I was never banned. Other than that... yeah, pretty much. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Individual world boss timers

I want to query timers to generate table of all times on pages like Tequatl the Sunless so people don't have to manually list the times and take advantage of code we already have. The coding isn't exactly obvious so I'll save time asking you.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:49, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

{{world boss table|<boss name>}} Just for you. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
See that doesn't work because it hides all the times.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:36, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Then you obviously need to copy the widget and modify it so it doesn't hide anything. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:20, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ give widget pls --Relyk ~ talk < 01:47, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
There you go. poke | talk 12:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Why wasn't my version working? I don't see that you did anything all that different to get the widget parameter into the javascript. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
The “validate:boolean” stuff returns nothing for invalid content (although PHP manual says it should return false), so you ended up with a var hideRows = ; line which was a syntax error. It should have worked without the validator (as you set the parameter value to either true/false) but I guess that was a caching issue (I could still see your syntax error’d version on the template page—had to purge it first). poke | talk 12:17, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I was purging all over the place (except into my toilet). Oh well, I'm sure your version's better anyway. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:18, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
That’s very odd then :/ poke | talk 12:19, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks!--Relyk ~ talk < 13:26, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Ascended gear

"13:47, 3 August 2014‎ Dr ishmael (revert - that doesn't fit into this table well (we already have parenthesized info for a different reason), and some ascended prefixes are different for weapons - this correspondence is already given on Ascended armor/Ascended weapons anyway)"

Shouldn't an item nomenclature page mention ascended gear in some way, even if just as links to the ascended pages? I don't believe the information should be duplicated or shoved into existing tables. It just appears disjointed to have no mention of this correspondence, on the nomenclature page. -- Fey User Fey Zeal Blue Sylvari Tango.png 19:50, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

You have a point (kind of). If I'm looking for details on ascended weapon prefixes I'd expect the user to be searching for "ascended weapon" and stumble straight into the table on that page.
But if they don't search for that and somewhow have found Item nomenclature + are just clicking links on that page, then they have to go via Equipment acquisition by statsAscended equipmentAscended weapon. That isn't too hard but its somewhat awkward. It probably indicates that the ascended equipment page could do with a table showing the ascended "prefixes" (zojja etc) - these are common for both the armor and weapon pages. Would that work for you? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:57, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
My point was mostly about how you had inserted the links into the table - the presentation was really cluttered. I think you could present the information much better in a separate table that was only concerned with the correspondence between standard and ascended prefixes. Whether that's on the nomenclature page or (as Alex suggested) on the Ascended equipment page, doesn't really matter to me. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:27, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Might it be a good idea to separate the three portions of the table, so that there's a single-attribute table with single attribute, prefix, and suffix; a dual-attribute table with major attribute, minor attribute, prefix, and suffix; and a triple-attribute table with major attribute, minor attributes, prefix, suffix, and ascended name? With its own column, differences between weapon and armor can also be handled the same way regular prefixes are, and everything would be presented compactly and neatly without needing to flip back and forth between tables to connect stats to ascended names. - Tanetris (talk) 04:03, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
it was once 3 separate tables. It'd still look ugly with the ascended names in it. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:39, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
How I entered the names into the table did look cluttered, I agree with Dr ishmael saying it was too much in that one table. Another table would be fine or maybe just a link at the bottom might be all that is needed? It just seems strange that this page does not have a more direct way of conveying that ascended gear has its own naming conventions. -- Fey User Fey Zeal Blue Sylvari Tango.png 12:10, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
We need a section on Item nomenclature for an overview on ascended equipment.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:38, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

about Chat link format/0x03 codes

Does the GW2 Hex Code need ?

can (i) delete ? (that mean left Chat link, Dialogue, and ID number) ~ Wong8888 (talk) 18:24, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

I've removed the decimal and hex code columns, they are not useful for the average user. I do however need some kind of script to convert multiple chat links back into the ids (so we can display them using the gamelink template. I found an ancient reference to a .bas excel file that you'd created to convert chatlinks to-and-from ids, but you've removed it from google drive. Something else I can use? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:15, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. poke | talk 01:34, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Seems like the sharing on that file got reset somehow, it's shared again. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
thanks for doing that ish, there will be a new google drive link though, since the old one doesn't work. (I'm surprised too, I thought they'd reuse the old one)
+ thanks poke for adding the ids. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Edited the links in that post. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Need split page for 0x03 ? because maybe too much data ~ Wong8888 (talk) 14:42, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Is there a point to having that page at all? The link type is disabled, and the information isn't useful in any way. My preference would be to delete the page. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:51, 10 August 2014 (UTC)


That mini is so my bad. I thought that the blank thing is only needed when the item is used in templates that automatically generate it, such as {{recipe list}}. The bug is so freakin' infuriating; anyway, I'll blank the page before every item move now to prevent this crap. --Ventriloquist 16:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Any page with semantic properties can be affected by the bug, which is basically anything with an infobox. We only see the results of the bug when the page's properties are queried. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:16, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
this happens too frequently, we're finding that even experienced editors don't recall to do this... so I added a bit of text to the top of the move page. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:57, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Save us all

Our dear friend (talkcontribslogsblock log) is back. Precisely after a month, just like I anticipated. This time he likes putting a LOT of spaces on the champion pages, deleting old info etc. His edits are a bit more...tame now, but who knows what'll happen in the future. --Ventriloquist 12:06, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

I know, I was fixing some of his mess last night. Seriously, using spaces to align stuff to look like there are linefeeds? Instead of just hitting enter? At least it made one thing evident: he uses the same screen resolution as I do (because they aligned the same in my edit box!) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:09, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
It's weird. I wonder if he kept a calendar in his room, circling the days until he has been unbanned. At first I thought it was just a poor, ol' confused editor, trying to edit the pages; but then I went to his contributions...yeah. I'm halfway through the chaos he left, seems like he's done for now. --Ventriloquist 12:13, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Too much troll... I don't know how do you both have the patience.. -W.Wolf (talk) 00:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Besides the odd formatting, he's actually doing half okay this time. Look at the edits he just made to Champion Giant Sand Wurm and Champion Giant Basilisk. (I haven't been in EotM so I dunno if they're accurate, but at least they're written properly.) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:07, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I certainly agree. While there are some bad apples in there (turning anomalies into bugs, removing some info) it's actually quite okay now. That doesn't mean I still won't watch him like a bloodthirsty hawk. --Ventriloquist 01:12, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Sorry to tell you but not all accurate lol -W.Wolf (talk) 11:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Seriously ban him: -W.Wolf (talk) 21:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I has legendary

Thanks to influx of gold from foxfire clusters, I have my Kraitkin!--Relyk ~ talk < 02:28, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Congrats! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:30, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Congratulations! (The underwater legendaries have some of the most interesting designs/effects. I'd love it if ANet gave some more love to submarine warfare.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:42, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Centaur, Modniir, Harathi and Tamini.

Can you do me a favor? It seems the "Centaur weapons" we all know and love have been renamed for quite some time now. Usually I'd just move all the pages to the new names, but it seems there's a divide between the weapons. Some have been renamed to Harathi weapons (there's apparently an entire set of these?), six items have been renamed to Harathi (axe, longbow etc.) and the Modniir weapons don't look like they exist under that name anymore. I know you tackled these confusions before, especially with ANet's inconsistencies.

Extra unrelated note: Any way of removing five Dr ishmaels in the Gallery of greatswords? Probably confusing people looking for greatswords. --Ventriloquist 09:47, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

It was due to Dr Ishmael/Iron Greatsword (loot A/B/C/D). I've pre-wrapped the pages, a little short of deleting them, which will get them off the gallery pages. I expect dr ish will delete when appropriate. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:24, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for jumping in, Alex. --Ventriloquist 11:29, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Forward Scout Greta still sells all the fine/masterwork Modniir weapons, which use the identically-named Modniir skins. I will now spend my morning running around Queensdale and Kessex to check on the Centaur weapons. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:17, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Preliminary analysis based on Queensdale: the Centaur weapons all use the Modniir skins. The ones available in Queensdale have been renamed to Tamini weapons.
Vendor Weapon ID Cost
Laborer Cardy Tamini Axe 30360 105 Karma.png
Supplymaster Aisly Tamini Axe 30360 Silver coin 20 Copper coin
Supplymaster Aisly Tamini Sword 30394 Silver coin 20 Copper coin
Supplymaster Aisly Tamini Shield 30396 Silver coin 4 Copper coin
Supplymaster Trudi Tamini Torch 30391 Silver coin 12 Copper coin
Supplymaster Trudi Tamini Longbow 30392 Silver coin 68 Copper coin
Supplymaster Trudi Tamini Short Bow 30393 Silver coin 68 Copper coin
The weapons available in Kessex have been renamed to Harathi weapons.
Kessex Hills
Vendor Weapon ID Cost
Seraph Supplier (Cavernhold Camp) Harathi Longbow 30402 Silver coin 56 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Cavernhold Camp) Harathi Short Bow 30403 Silver coin 56 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Cavernhold Camp) Harathi Dagger 30404 Silver coin 68 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Earthworks Bluff) Harathi Rifle 30405 Silver coin 40 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Earthworks Bluff) Harathi Pistol 30406 Silver coin 68 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Earthworks Bluff) Harathi Torch 30407 Silver coin 68 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Greyhoof Camp) Harathi Hammer 30399 Silver coin 4 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Greyhoof Camp) Harathi Mace 30400 Silver coin 76 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Greyhoof Camp) Harathi Warhorn 30401 Silver coin 8 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp)** Harathi Shield 30408  ???
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Sword 30409  ???
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Axe 30410  ???
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Greatsword 30411  ???
** Discovered these four by chat-link-mining, I assume they would be sold by the vendor in Wallwatcher.
I expect there's another vendor in Wallwatcher Camp, but it was held by Harathi and I couldn't figure out how to trigger the event to drive them out. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:54, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
Alright, I ran around the camp for quite a while and I'm pretty sure the event is bugged. I tried killing some centaurs inside the camp, thinking it could trigger the event, but nope. Then the bridge defense event popped up, and the meta updated to say "Seraph forces are engaging the centaurs at Wallwatcher and the southern bridge crossing", but the camp was still unaffected and the nearby NPCs didn't reflect the change in any way. It seems that the Fort Salma destruction messed the whole meta event up, since centaurs will no longer attack the fort, which used to start the meta event. Howeeever, the final boss (part of a karma train) still pops up, regardless of the state of the meta. --Ventriloquist 14:38, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
The Harathi weapons are a clear grouping from 30399 - 30411. 30398 is the masterwork Match-Grade Standard Rifle and 30412 is an undocumented version of Lionguard Rifle - it's fine with flavor text (i.e. karma vendor item; could be that it was never added to any vendor). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:04, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Object infobox madness

Can you work some of your coding magic and make the maps optional on the object infoboxes? Despite saying it's "optional", the stupid map files are always crammed into the pages, which makes it useless, especially when many items have more than one locations or their locations don't even matter, such as Mysterious Presents. --Ventriloquist 09:30, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

While we all love using ishmael's talk page as a community portal, posting on the object infobox talk page is a better place to discuss changes to the template.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:52, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
You're right, I just assumed since another user discussed it without any responses, that it'd happen again, so I wanted to avoid making triple discussions without any traction. Ish's usually my go-to guy for fixing annoying things, force of habit :P Thanks for "fix"! --Ventriloquist 11:22, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Banded galleries

I deleted those, since the Banded armor gallery has better pictures showing the entire armor with more than one color, but if you want 'em, keep 'em. --Ventriloquist 15:55, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I'll defer to you in this. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:56, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Phantom Item entries

In some cases Template:Recipe list throws out a blank Item entry with 3 "?"'s as ingredients. I've seen it before in the past but most recently ran into it on Exquisite Charged Quartz Jewel. I tried to figure out what was causing it, and as far as I can tell (not knowing the language that is being used in the recipe templates) Template:Recipe list result format is throwing a nonexistent page name into Template:Item icon (getting  Skill.png Item) and producing a default in the Ingredients section. As the phantom Items can be seen on Orichalcum Chain and Orichalcum Setting as well, it probably relates to Charged Quartz Orichalcum Amulet, which after all that research and typing all this up on your page (being the tech wizard) I now notice that that page was apparently created by you after some misnamed items were involved, so I'd assume it's related to info from deleted pages being stuck somewhere, though purging as many related things as I could think of apparently didn't fix it. While particular cases may be able to be solved by purging the correct cache, its presence on affected pages could probably be avoided by having Recipe list result format not run it through if it doesn't find that the page exists, rather than triggering a default in Item icon and itself later on. Or something. I don't know how that language works --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 12:47, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Semantic MediaWiki#Issues. We can't do a blasted thing about it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:17, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
Bleh. All that work for nothing then :( --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 14:38, 4 September 2014 (UTC)


I think we really need to agree on what to do with him. He lasted a couple of weeks this time; but only because he was actually doing some okay edits, even if they were poorly formatted. Occasionally he'd slip and get back to his old ways, but it'd stop once I warned him. I find myself checking his every single edit, because I feel like he is trying to mask vandalism with good edits; thinking we won't notice or something else. He has been warned numerous times of vandalism and once again, he is banned for vandalizing Farrah Cappo and other pages. I'm beginning to think he's more trouble than worth. A good editor, in my opinion is the one that does not need a babysitter constantly following him and his edits like a bloodthirsty hawk. Now, one may argue that he's just an IP learning the ropes, but he's been here for what, a few months now? I did my best at the start to educate him, and to guide him on what's wrong and what's right - mainly by reverting his edits, but that doesn't seem to have worked. We should look for a more permanent solution, because if he keeps this up, he'll just keep getting banned for the exact same reason every other month, since it's clearly stronger than him. --Ventriloquist 11:53, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree. The problem is that he's an IP, and not only that, he's a dynamic IP. That means we'd have to block an IP range in order to completely stop his stupidity, and that's rarely a good idea. Even if there aren't currently any other editors coming from that IP range, you might be blocking some potential editors who try to edit in the future.
Based on the 4 IPs he's used so far, we'd have to block the range, which contains 8,192 IP addresses. (I used Special:PrefixIndex to find all the talk pages we've attempted to contact him on, then used them as input in the bottom half of Special:CheckUser to get the IP range.) This isn't a decision I'd want to make without input from other admins. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:41, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Ask him to create an account, see if he can use the same one for a while, and try to reason with him again on the talk page imo. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 14:47, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
It's worth a shot, although I doubt he'll even listen or try to communicate back. --Ventriloquist 20:54, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Just because I have no sense of humour, and in the name of science, I range blocked him on GWW. Immediately I had an IP from another range fucking about. There are two kinds of IPs, the kind that can be blocked and ignored, and the kind that you have to reason with. No choice I think. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:56, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Usually when he gets blocked on GW2W, he pops back only once his block expires, no additional IPs appear with similar edits. --Ventriloquist 21:02, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
If it ain't him, I'd be surprised. Location of address on the same latitude/longitude. If hes like everyone else, he'll get bored of my rolling blocks.. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:45, 7 September 2014 (UTC)


The newly-introduced prefixes for ascended should be added into the prefix attribute table. I did it for sentinel, but it didn't work for some reason (unrecognized prefix, pfft), so I'm not touching that anymore. Might wanna look into it. --Ventriloquist 00:08, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

You weren't actually editing the template - that table is just the documentation. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Hey, at least keep them alphabetical, you disorganized monster! And the documentation is still important, too. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:29, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Fear me, for I will mess up all of your order! (Didn't realize it was alphabetical). I'm pretty sure that all of the prefixes now have ascended variants, but I won't confirm it just yet. --Ventriloquist 12:31, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Hey, more things popped up. Back item infoboxes need to be tweaked to allow exotic items to have an infusion slot. Ornate Weaponsmith's Backpack is an exotic and has one, but I can't implement it since it only works with ascended. I'd go do it myself but coding scares me. --Ventriloquist 14:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Temporary solution with example on Elegant Weaponsmith's Backpack.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:50, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

About redirects

Hi there! Thanks for the changes on Rednax Youngblood, I just didn't know (or I forgot) about how to do redirects, hehe. This section can be deleted if you want. --Txon Atana - (talk) 02:49, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Ghastly weapons (sorry I'm an unbearable troll)

Well done. I hereby award you this Mini Llama for your suffering. --> Llama.jpg :P -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:19, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

That’s really mini. poke | talk 18:20, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

item stats

The new ineffable stuff like Brightcarved Breastplate has 278 defense compared to 245 generated from the template. There aren't any level 60 exotic heavy chest on the TP so not sure where the number comes from?--Relyk ~ talk < 21:41, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

We need a flag for these new crafted/looted items, they all have buffed stats. :/ Tyndel (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Buffs to both defense and the prefix values it looks like. If it had just been defense then we could have said "meh, manually spec the defense", but with both it looks like a flag may be the only valid option. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:58, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
I got the L60 exotic numbers from GW2DB, but that doesn't matter. Actually, it kind of does - GW2DB lists both the required level and the item level for items. (I assume they get this through memory-scraping after the game has decoded all the data tables.) For most items, item_level = required_level + 2. But even before, there were already some items that didn't follow this patter - a few trinket items (don't think they were ever available) had item_level = required_level, and a lot of items with no required level had item levels of anywhere from 1 to 10.
That's important because it's the item level that determines the stats, not the required level.
I assume that these new "leveling items" are similar to those items - they have item_level = required_level + x where x >> 2. I'm going to have to see more data in order to figure out what 'x' is, but after we know that (and hopefully it's the same for all of them), then we can just add a parameter (as Tyndel suggested) to infoboxes that adds 'x' to the level used in the call to Template:Item stat lookup. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:00, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
Oh hey, you already gave some useful data - for Brightcarved Breastplate, at least, x = 6 because 278 is the standard defense value for L66 heavy coats. Let's see if that holds for other item types/levels/rarities. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
And you can always just override the lookup by omitting the prefix and defining the stats explicitly - I think I set up all the infoboxes to allow that, anyway. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:05, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

those pesky npcs and their levels

Since this topic inevitable came up with the drop templates, I wrote some more on Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Semantic MediaWiki/NPCs#Implementation with item drops. I don't pretend to know how the drops work completely or if that's the way we should approach the problem :/ --Relyk ~ talk < 22:17, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Collectible Items format

Hey, I've been trying to help update the collectible items pages for each set, and since there's not really a template in place for them yet I noticed there's a lot of irregularity. I saw that the Style Guide page got changed to a vendor table, but I'd like to argue that the vendor table isn't necessarily the best choice for these collections. I could be wrong, but they don't seem to have a way to add rarity and putting non-vendor items into it's own table is kind of clunky and won't be the best choice for other collections where there might only be one or two items that aren't available from vendors. I changed the Uncanny Canner page from a vendor table to a standard table, personally I think it's easier to read but if you can adjust the vendor tables so they can include other items and show rarities then we can use that.

Maybe we need a collectibles table? Nefara (talk)

These are a brand-new type of thing, we're still figuring stuff out about it. Talk:Collections is probably the best place to discuss overall formatting for all of them. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:38, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
Would you have any objection to my changing the Style Guide page to follow the Uncanny Canner format? Nefara (talk)

I dub YOU

Ambient eialogue. --Ventriloquist 13:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense. How do you even pronounce all those vowels? At least "Babner" sounds like a name. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:14, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Ay-alogue? And the only quality results for "Babner" is some guy that committed a crime in 2000. --Ventriloquist 13:16, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

JSON to CSV or Excel

Do you know of any tools that will allow me to import JSON data (e.g. from the API v1 or v2) directly into Excel? Currently, I'm depending on gw2tp's or gw2spidy's csv-specific APIs to populate data, but I'd like to get it directly from the source. (Plus, the API includes details that aren't available from 3rd party APIs, AFAIK). I know there are some "simple" libraries out there for variations of C++, Java, etc, but.. as you might recall, I can't code my way out of a paper bag using any "real" programming language. (I have no idea why microsoft hasn't created an Excel Add In, since JSON has so many advantages over CSV.) So far, the only solutions that Google has been able to find for me are to copy/paste the JSON results into a webapp that converts any two-dimension arrays into CSV (that much I can manage on my own with macros).

Thanks! – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:48, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

JSON supports multi-level, multi-valued data structures; CSV only supports flat records with single-valued fields. That's why there's no "generic" method for converting JSON to CSV - you have to tailor the conversion to the data in order to properly handle sub-elements and elements with multiple values.
To that end, I wrote a custom Perl module that reads the JSON data from the various GW2 API endpoints and loads it into Perl objects, which can then be processed in any number of ways by application scripts - my original ones did exactly what you want, outputting CSV files for use in Excel, although I now load it directly to a MySQL database.
Since you don't want to mess with any code, I can just export my tables to a CSV format and share them with you on Google Drive. Which endpoints are you interested in? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:09, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks much for the offer to assist. I currently don't have a good way for grabbing data from Google Drive (for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion); I'll have to think about my bottleneck with that and see whether I want to change things. If we go that route, at the moment, I'm interested in "item id" and commerce — I've put together my own SP-to-gold, crafting, and MF spreadsheet. But with various changes to the TP, it looks like I need to know more (than Spidy or gw2tp) about how the game views items, too.
It might be the case that Excel is no longer the right tool for the job...or that I have to get a lot more sophisticated about how I use it. (And yes, I know that JSON isn't as easy to import, because it supports more complicated data structures than CSV. However, Excel workbooks have long since the ability to handle relational data: if the data architecture is static (as it is for GW2) and not too complex (also true for GW2), then all Excel should need is a set of translation rules. Maybe Microsoft wants to reserve that functionality for Access, which does a better job of it.)
Thanks again for the offer; let me rethink what my next steps ought to be. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:00, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Skill infobox: Chain icons

My head exploded while trying to figure out how you retrieve a chain skill icon if that skill uses a different icon than its page title, how does that happen?

{{#if: {{{chain1|}}} |  
; [[Sequence skill|Sequence]] 
: {{#arraymap: {{{chain1|}}}, {{{chain2|}}}, {{{chain3|}}} |,|@@@|
  {{borderless|{{#sub:{{#show: @@@ | ?Has game icon | link = none | default = File:Skill.png }}|5}}|20|link=@@@}}| → 
  }}{{#set:Has chain sequence={{{chain1}}}{{#if:{{{chain2|}}}|, {{{chain2}}}}}{{#if:{{{chain3|}}}|, {{{chain3}}}}}}}

I only save the chain parameters and md5-pull the correct image url from those strings, but for example Remove Avatar of Melandru uses the same icon as Avatar of Melandru, how does chain icon for Avatar of Melandru is resolved if sequence (Remove Avatar of Melandru) has an "icon" parameter. – Valento msg 19:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Or just upload the same image with the name 'Remove Avatar of Melandru'. :D – Valento msg 19:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking now... I'm using standard MW API to pull data and cache locally, but am I able to pull all data from a single skill through SMW Ask API? Up to this point all my "parsing" doesn't look "semantic" at all, if there's another source it would be good. But then I'd lose skill facts. T_T – Valento msg 19:44, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The #show function in there is a semantic query to look up the chained skill's icon. All infoboxes annotate the icon used, even if it matches the pagename, in Property:Has game icon.
I don't see why you would need to worry about SMW for your application, though. You're already parsing the skill infobox directly through the MW API, so you would just need to do this for each chain skill to find their icon. I don't know how you have anything structured, but I would create a local table to store the page-to-icon pairs of every skill that you parse, so that you can just look up the icon from there instead of having to pull the skill through the API repeatedly whenever it comes up as a chain skill. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
That sounds cool yes. Problem is, if the user is to link only to Avatar of Melandru, its sequence Remove Avatar of Melandru page-to-icon pair won't be cached by then, and I won't know where to pull the icon from.
I don't feel my parsed structure is bad, it's actually pretty well-organized (I could use some improvements in the parsing function though), but outside scripts have the disadvantage of having to pull references while from within wiki everything is well-connected (specially via SMW). The solution would be to upload duplicates, not sure if it would take up much of servers space, but aside from this particular caveat I can find almost every piece of data. Another issue with my current parsing function is checking for {{'s and }}'s, if you put variables parameter in the end it breaks the script hehe. You can check various skills tooltips here (ensured to work only in Chrome). – Valento msg 21:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Ah, I understand a little better now - it's JavaScript. In that case, try using the SMW API for the chained skills:
There's been a huge effort over the past few months to remove duplicate icons. I don't think we'd want to backtrack on that for the sake of one third-party application. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:23, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I understand that. I guess I'll just go ahead and cache a lookup table on page load, but only for skills which have a sequence with an icon different from page title. It WILL take up some unnecessary space in client's localstorage, but I've always been respectful to this wiki standards. I just hope you don't change the way it works for most skills (using page title), it's an easy way to store skill icons. Thanks for the input! :) – Valento msg 12:25, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Pages created with [[{{subst:PAGENAME}}]]

Hello. Would you mind using [[{{subst:#replace:{{subst:PAGENAME}}|'|'}}]] instead? Otherwise it generates those funny html codes and I go all funny when I see those. (Copied from User:Psycho Robot/kau which was derived off a suggestion made ages ago.. its also got the subst code to auto-pipe stuff + remove brackets but we don't need that here) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm done with all of that. If I have time, I'll run AWB across them to find/replace, but you could do that too. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:49, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Data on New Leveling Gear

data on new leveling gear

I thought you might be interested in the above post on the official forums. (Not to mention others that subscribe to your talk page might want to take a peek.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:43, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I already knew about that - he provided me the data for the crafted armor and one-handed weapon attributes. The "reddit user" he quoted here was me. :D —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:03, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Cool. (I didn't realize that was you, since he referred to you as merely a "reddit user"" — as anyone knows who follows wiki drama, you are the leader of a Cabal whose sole purpose is to increase sales to the gem shop by stifling Freedom of Speech, i.e. the Shiniest of the Illuminati) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

All that Leveling Equipment

Jeez, where did you get all that data to make those 200 or so Ineffable item pages? I must've spent at least $50 in gems to just make the ones I did with TP-bought ectos, and you managed to do all of them! I'm legitimately impressed, actually. Could you teach me your ways, O wiki master? Dukeplatypus (talk) 02:24, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

API. And asking for info on reddit. I haven't crafted a single one. :D —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:46, 20 September 2014 (UTC)


So, I was casually prancing around Kessex Hills today, and I noticed the camp that was permanently under centaur control (the one we thought had a bugged event) was liberated. There was only one Seraph Supplier, selling four items. Going back to your list, it's now:

Kessex Hills
Vendor Weapon ID Cost
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Shield 30408 Silver coin 8 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Sword 30409 Silver coin 8 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Axe 30410 Silver coin 92 Copper coin
Seraph Supplier (Wallwatcher Camp) Harathi Greatsword 30411 Silver coin 12 Copper coin

I believe we now have the full and complete list of all the harathi and tamini weapons; whilst the centaur ones don't even exist, I think. I'm not sure if they fixed the event bug alongside the Feature Pack, or if it just kinda unbroke itself with the server refresh, but at least now we know. --Ventriloquist 13:36, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I remember reading it... Aha!
I suppose we shouldn't even consider that a weapon set anymore, since they use the Modniir skins (or maybe we should redefine our definition of "set" to focus on skins instead of the weapons/armor that use the skins). But the "Centaur X" weapon pages definitely need to be renamed. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:41, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Wow, I don't remember reading that in the patch notes at all, and I inspected it thoroughly. Anyway, yes, we need to agree whether or not skins or weapons should be referred to as a "set". It would make sense if we merged it into skins, yeah, since it seems silly to have 4 or 5 different sets sharing the same skin, when they could all be moved into one. --Ventriloquist 14:38, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
make with the skin namespace already. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:28, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Poke essentially vetoed it, I'm giving up. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:42, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Because, you know, Poke is the consensus, after all. — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 15:21, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I didn’t veto it at all; my opinion is not capable of doing that. I’m just still not convinced that a separate namespace is the appropriate solution for the actual problem. That being said, I wasn’t the only one against it. poke | talk 15:32, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Psuedo veto. In all but name. Nothing for me to do on this wiki without skin pages to bash out. Guess I'm done here. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
And I fail to see how the "stuff them all in mainspace where 90% of them will have name conflicts" solution is any more appropriate. Just look at Steel Axe (skin) for example - there are 4 spots on that page where the template defaults have to be overridden because of the pagename qualifier. In a namespace, none of those would be necessary.
Then look at Pinnacle Avenger (skin) - this page doesn't even need a qualifier, yet SarielV created it with one anyway. Why? Because all the other skin pages he had already created needed it, so he assumed it was the standard! Again, this wouldn't even be an issue with a namespace. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:30, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Don’t blame me for your lazy infobox. poke | talk 18:08, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Add script to common.js?

Do you know how I can import an external script to use in my common.js? – Valento msg 03:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

You should be able to do something similar to WikiEd's old-style install using importScriptURI(). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:03, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Opinion on something

So I have that script, for now it runs on all urls within a page that's linking to the wiki regardless if they're skills or not. It requests data for all links, so if you've got 500 urls it'll pull data 500 times even if they're not linking to skills. The criteria for data pulling is to match href starting with "", back then I was pulling for whatever links with class "gw2skill". The question is: should I pull using the class as criteria or continue with hrefs? Should I assume the script user will treat the url before throwing it in the page (maybe by the use of bbcodes pre-parsing)? As of now, if I am to request data for every url and check for the content AFTER I pulled it, I'm afraid it may be goddamn slow... any ideas? – Valento msg 18:19, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Have a prepopulated list of skill names, and only fetch data for things you know that are skills. Also cache all data you get, so you don’t have to fetch multiple times for the same skill. poke | talk 18:32, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
You're writing this for BBcode, right? I would implement a custom tag that prints out an anchor with a specific class, then you can go the route of processing only anchors with that class. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:45, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you both, I can resume url dependency by mixing both of your ideas... I could create an anchor in bbcode-style, and also cache a lookup table for some skills when their page titles don't match their names. Something like this (for bbcode part, assuming bbcode already attributes an anchor):
     var skillLookupTable = {'firestorm 2': 'Firestorm_(Glyph_of_Storms_skill)'}; //etc this would be cached already on first script execution
     // ... after we get bbcode input skill
     bbcodeSkill = bbcodeSkill.toLowerCase();
     var requestUrl = skillLookupTable[bbcodeSkill] || capitalizeAll(bbcodeSkill).replace(/ /g, '_'); // if not on table, convert to url
     requestUrl = "" + requestUrl + "&prop=revisions&rvprop=content";
How does that look? – Valento msg 19:02, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Still haven't implemented poke's idea, but here's my first attempt at creating a simple bbcode, and here's a showcase. I think I'll attach bbcode to gw2tooltips and create a nice interface for calling both later on. How does that look? – Valento msg 13:45, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Shouldn't the tag parsing be performed in phpBB or BBcode directly? phpBB 3 allows you to configure custom tags directly from the administration panel. Doing that parsing in JS is just increasing the burden on every reader's browser.
Your showcase isn't showing any tooltips for me - not seeing any JS warnings or errors in my console, though. Maybe you only meant for it to showcase the tag parsing? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:52, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Not seeing? Maybe because I was changing some stuff to allow aliases, and there's a 2sec delay before script is run. Try again, please. – Valento msg 19:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I was thinking about making the script more "standalone", but I guess you're right. I'll just assume the end user will have anchors with correct classes, or I'll never finish skill parsing (I still want to work on traits, items...). – Valento msg 19:38, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I agree that you should use proper bbcodes for parsing there and generate actual links on the server side. That way, you are not dependent on JavaScript to just create clickable links and a readable output (that also helps you with search engines). poke | talk 19:40, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I guess I'll be taking that route, thank you for your time, guys. :) – Valento msg 20:44, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Grawl Paw, Ogre Tooth, etc. locations

So a few days ago you removed a list of locations that I had added, using the reasoning that they can drop from that mob type anywhere. That makes sense to me, but I guess my intent was to add information that would make it easier for people to actually go obtain say, a Grawl Paw, if they didn't know where any grawl could be found. Perhaps if it's labeled as a list of suggested locations? I had seen that "guides" for the new collections were desired for the wiki, and this would be consistent with that intent. Veron (talk) 20:45, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

That sort of information would be better placed on the race's page, rather than on the page of an item they drop. So e.g. grawl/ogre/etc., you might add a list of locations there. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:18, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Level equipment value

So, it seems those new items don't have any value, as they cannot be sold to a merchant. Just thought you should know, since you, well, created all the containers with the values set in the table. --Ventriloquist 13:42, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh crap. I could've sworn they didn't have the NoSell flag when I started on all this a couple weeks ago... Time for AWB, I guess.
And a big ol' /* unintelligible garble */ at Anet for leaving a vendor_value set on NoSell items in the first place. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:47, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Seriously. I've seen plenty of values set for items that can't be sold. Wassupwiththat.
Extra-note: They can be salvaged, but they don't give anything when salvaged. WHY. --Ventriloquist 13:50, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Had a report over here that they can give Essences of Luck. Still stoopid. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)