User talk:Relyk/Archive 3

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This is an archive of past content or discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to modify or discuss the content, please do so on the current talk page.


Some weird events etc[edit]

Hi, could you have a look at the template/function for "open dbl-curly"event|Cathedral of Eternal Radiance (meta event)|Cathedral of Eternal Radiance"close dbl-curly" - it shows as

  • Cathedral of Eternal Radiance - its pretty obvious what is wanted to be displayed and it's also obvious that it isn't. I remember that you're the expert in this field. Thanks --Claret 18:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
You can use {{tl}} when citing templates, so that you can display {{event|Cathedral of Eternal Radiance (meta event)}} nicely. The template uses Property:Has canonical name to display the name of the event. The property is set by the name parameter in the event infobox. If you don't include a name parameter, it will display the page name. I simply add name = Cathedral of Eternal Radiance to the infobox on the meta event.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:50, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I get it. Claret 18:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I had thought I had got it. But I am not so sure. I thought the name = whatever was used whenever the item was referred to in other pages but it does not seem to be. As an example, Cathedral of Zephyrs (meta event) has the name parameter of Cathedral of Zephyrs and inside the page it displays as such but when I look at the page Defeat the possessed statue of Dwayna, the info box is not using the "name" from the referred to page but the pagename? Is this right? Or am I again, missing something? Thanks. --Claret 22:06, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
The name parameter is to be used if the title of the page doesn't truly reflect the in-game name - we set the name parameter to whatever its called ingame.
e.g. in-game, the meta event is called simply "Cathedral of Flames" - but that title conflicts with the location on the wiki so we've given it the pagename of "Cathedral of Zephyrs (meta event)". We want the infobox to show the ingame name.
still confused?-Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I get its in-page usage and the reason for it, it was just that I had the impression, not sure from who, that the name parameter was used in other pages as it makes the info-box in those pages that use that page less than ideal, My point was that it's great for making the originl page use the "in game name" but it does not apply the same consideration to other pages "downstream". --Claret 22:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
k my bad, I have no idea what you're on about xD ^^ -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Me neither, maybe claret's talking about recipe infoboxes--Relyk ~ talk > 22:58, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Lets start again. Look at the page Cathedral of Zephyrs (meta event) - you will see that it uses "Cathedral of Zephyrs" as its name in the info box because you use name = Cathedral of Zephyrs as an infobox parameter. The starting text uses Cathedral of Zephyrs (meta event)|Cathedral of Zephyrs but that's not what I am talking about. Because of using the "name" parameter the infobox uses the in-gam name as was explained to me earlier in this thread. Now, I was under the impression that other "infoboxes" that called the page - in this case Defeat the possessed statue of Dwayna should have Cathedral of Zephyrs displaying as its storyline but it has Cathedral of Zephyrs (meta event) displaying. It it's justified to use the in-game name in one infobox, surely it should be used in others. I don't know how you program he templates but I think I am asking if the event's infobox could grab the "canonical name" when linking. I hope this is clearer but… --Claret 23:16, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Of course you can. I wouldn't bother for inside an infobox, all you need is a link to the "storyline" article and there are maybe two meta events with qualifiers.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:48, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
It'll display it correctly now. I made {{cname}} to link using the canonical name since it'll be such common code to use.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:10, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, it's my OCD coming out but I am grateful and I think it looks better :) --Claret 00:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
I was planning on doing that eventually, just never bothered.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Strange, that's what my husband says when I fix something around the house. --Claret 00:24, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Erm, <cough> is there any chance of you doing the same canonical name thing for start_npc s please? --Claret 17:48, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
Lokks like Chieftain Alex has don the honors --Claret 23:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
Could this change have broken something? Look here: Escort the merchant pack bull to Ireko Tradecamp. --Alad 00:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes, it has and it's start npcs who are not properly defined. I mentioned it to Chieftain Alex and I hope he'll fix it.

The wiki doesn't parse it correctly if it doesn't find a property. I hoped it would but it didn't--Relyk ~ talk > 02:35, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for trying you/Alex. One for the "to do sometime, maybe" list  :) --Claret 02:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
It's fixed lol--Relyk ~ talk > 02:42, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I knew I'd inspire you to great things… so it was a "to do, now if not sooner" list instead --Claret 02:44, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
darn - it's still broken Defeat the effigy and its engineer Defeat Lionguard Mette among other, sorry --Claret 18:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
{{#show:Lionguard Mette|?Has canonical name|default=stupid smw isn't working.}}
Lionguard Mette
the above line is showing blank upon query, which means SMW isn't working properly. I think relyk's code is fine, its the server cache (dr ishmael's fix didn't work >_>) my suggestion would be to drop the cname template idea and just use the pipe template in the infobox link. e.g. (press edit) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:35, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
As far as remember the pipe didn't work, hence my request for a solution. --Claret 18:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
pipe won't work on the meta_event parameter because its got a nasty #set smw attached to it. use meta_event_displayname. the start_npc can use the pipe trick. --Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Adding a parameter is a worse solution, I wouldn't even bother then... And I didn't get to see what the problem was--Relyk ~ talk > 19:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I guess it's been rolled back then, some start_npcs were displayed as [[Lionguard Mette]]. --Claret 19:37, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
{{cname|Kick (warrior utility skill)}} Kick works fine, so there was nothing wrong with the template itself... /sigh--Relyk ~ talk > 19:48, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
You guys lost me a while ago. Interesting to see where it leads… --Claret 19:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
"{{cname|Amimitl}}{{cname|Lionguard Mette}}{{cname|Example}}" AmimitlLionguard Mette{{cname|Example}}, it's an issue of the query finding the property on the page but returning a blank string. So yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with the template...--Relyk ~ talk > 19:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
IIRC, his Melid's name was displayed in the event infobox on my screen as: [[Lionguard Melid|]] (Escort the merchant pack bull to Ireko Tradecamp). --Alad 21:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal#SMW data rebuild. I suggest people get familiar with SMW, cause it's going to be everywhere and some problems will be with SMW rather than the templates lol.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:03, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
well I suggest you don't use cname until the bugs get fixed at least! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Or you could just wait a few fucking hours for it to fix itself.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I find that the cname for storyline/meta_event as well as start_npcs has been reverted. I io not think there were any problems with the meta_event aspect and I do realise that there were some with the start_npcs. A thought is that that may be because the start_npcs are not only NPCs but can be OBJECTs but that's a wild guess. However, loss of the meta-event aspect seems unfortunate as it was working well. I am worried about changing code at that level so I ask those who can to consider it, please. --Claret 17:57, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
It can be changed back since there isn't a problem now. Go spam alex's page for being a baddie. And as much as I like people using old sections on my talk page for template discussion, you can use the template talk page claret :P--Relyk ~ talk > 18:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks and sorry --Claret 19:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Regarding Virtue of Resolve Tooltip Bug[edit]

Hi. Did you recently look at the tooltip of that skill? It is clear that information is missing on the Regeneration effect (it says "+ Health" or something similar). Since there are 2 effect icons on that tooltip, one called "Regeneration" (which would correspond to the heal-over-time gained from the passive effect), and one called "Healing" (which would correspond to the healing obtained from activating the skill, and since the heal-over-time amount is placed on the "Healing" effect line instead of on the regeneration line, therefore the toolip has a bug and amount of Active Heal is missing. :) Otherwise please explain why you don't think it's a bug. --Alad 18:24, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

It's obviously a bug, I restored it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:36, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I thought that was the point of an anomaly tag, it's not a bug in any respect--Relyk ~ talk > 00:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
And here we come to the subjective distinction between anomaly and bug. The tooltip looks like it is designed to show the correct information, but one value is missing, and the other is in the wrong place - i.e. it's obviously not functioning as it should, and that is what qualifies it as a bug in my mind. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd rather get rid of the anomaly template altogether for the reason you can call anything a function. If the skill itself wasn't functioning correctly, that would be a bug. An error in a tooltip is treated as a sic or anomaly everywhere else.--Relyk ~ talk > 02:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
cf. Healing Signet. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I can agree with a bug tag when the effect tooltip is wrong, Virtue of Resolve omits the active healing altogether. If VoR was a signet, you could argue to say it was a bug if it omitted the active effect. Traits also omit trait effects (with 1-2 including the effect), but we don't tag them, but rather leave a note.--Relyk ~ talk > 03:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Eh, I see what you're getting at if we think of it functioning exactly like a signet.--Relyk ~ talk > 03:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Only 1 trait lists a single fact, none of the others list anything, so that one is actually the anomaly among traits, making that argument irrelevant.
It's not whether VoR "functions like a signet," I was pointing out that a less-obvious error in a different skill's tooltip had been notated as a bug by other editors (the number is presented in the correct place, but the number itself is not accurate). The error on VoR's tooltip is worse, because the one number it does show is placed incorrectly. So if HealSig's error is a full-on bug, then VoR's error is likewise a bug. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:48, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
The passive healing effect is in the right place, rather than it being in the place of the active healing effect. Signet of the Wild displays the passive healing for example. The effects of VoR differ from SotW and other signets because the VoR effect can be spread to others with Battle Presence.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
No, VoR has a custom fact for "Passive Regeneration" which is bugged and displays "(3s)" instead of the passive heal amount. The active Healing.png Healing fact is also bugged and incorrectly lists the passive healing amount; the active healing amount is unlisted. SotW has a custom fact for "Passive effect on player," not a standard "Healing" fact; HealSig only has an active Healing.png Healing fact and omits the passive regeneration fact. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Ugh, that makes sense that way.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Character template help[edit]

So the other day when i created my page here on the wiki you helped me get my User Infobox set up. now i want to create character infoboxes to go next to each of my character pics. There are templates out there already with all the information i want for each of my toons; i.e. Race, Class, etc. what i need to know is how to put them together in such a way as to look like the User Infobox as well as being aligned to the right hand side of the page. any advice? Thanks for your consideration. --Alexanderyount.7304 10:15, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Look around enough on other user pages, people can be quite clever with their character sheet designs. You don't need to follow an "infobox" design either. You can do something like User:Dr ishmael or User:08Ray with a simple design and copy that, or find more complex designs. The Guildwarswiki has many examples you can work off, like User:Wendy Black/Red Death Witch. I'm not particularly good with design. You can ask User:Chieftain Alex to do a mockup for whatever you want, he absolutely loves helping people.--Relyk ~ talk > 11:52, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
I did some category delving, looking for a "Category:User character templates" - it doesn't exist, unfortunately - but I did find this. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again, that was awesome.

Do me an icon favor.[edit]

Comparison of Inquest and Unknown other red icons (unused on the wiki)

Afternoon, could you do me a favor, and have a look at the icons for the Inquest weapons from Peacemaker Skrimm, and the Dark Asuran weapons from Morro - perhaps print screen both of the menus? I have a funny feeling that the icons for the two sets are confused. e.g. the icon for inquest shield, Inquest Shield.png looks suspiciously like the Dark Asuran Shield: Dark Asuran Shield.jpg Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Relyk Inquest and Dark Asuran weapons.jpg--Relyk ~ talk > 19:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
hmm thanks for the response, anet can't recognise their own icons seemingly >_> -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

sab achievments[edit]

where is the guide? i visited both sab and achievement pages and didnt see a link to the guide. there should be one so ppl can find it. --Moto Saxon 16:46, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The actual zone pages, Sunny Glade and Dark Woods are done, Kingdom of Fungus and Rapids need to be finished.--Relyk ~ talk > 16:49, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. --Moto Saxon 16:52, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Removal of weapon categories from "Skin" pages[edit]

e.g. While it makes sense categorically, how do you intend for the skin images to appear in the weapon galleries? (e.g. Gallery of axes) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:08, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

{{weapon skin gallery}} and seperate section. Although you are just concerned with the skin, one is still a gallery of weapons and the other is a gallery of weapon skins. With the recent super weapons, skin sets aren't limited to just weapons. We can't treat skins as weapons just based on having an image, they don't even use the same infobox. It's bad enough skins get put in the weapon category even though they aren't weapons. Pretending they are weapons just so we can display them in "skin" galleries together with other weapons or other presentations is a really bad approach. With smw, you could probably abuse properties and use Is for weapon and Has appearance to grab skins from weapons or weapon skins :P.--Relyk ~ talk > 16:02, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

cleaning up your leavings[edit]

It would be appreciated if you could delete-tag the leftover redirects when you move something, especially for files. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

uh huh, I wish I didn't have to.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Recipe pages[edit]

Ok I've just added dr ishmael's spans for item chat links to the general infoboxes. Apparently recipes use different chat link code to regular items, and yet recipes use the {{item infobox}}, e.g. Recipe: Berserker's Intricate Gossamer Insignia. What parameter should I base the switch from use of itemId to recipeId... they don't all use | icon = Recipe Sheet.png either. thoughts? (a recipe parameter maybe?) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:09, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

The type is "recipe", not "consumable". You don't know how bad I want to implement recipes into the crafting infobox.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:14, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
as soon as we get arraymap i guess... -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:26, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
We don't need arraymaps, recipes are the only items with discipline requirements not implemented on crafting infobox.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) I don't know what the problem is. The page Alex linked is a consumable item that teaches a recipe, it is not itself a recipe. It has an item ID, not a recipe ID. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:32, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Linked to a "recipe sheet" :P--Relyk ~ talk > 22:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Right, and that's an item, so it gets an item ID (it's 9848 according to gw2db's chat link). I don't understand why Alex is talking about recipe IDs. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Why is alex talking about recipes? I guess we don't have any pages with default item parameter template that are recipes. Still, we need to figure out if we're changing that {{recipe}} panel, especially the format, which has previously been described as an infobox in the middle of the page... -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:51, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
don't worry, ishmael has an evil master plan for that template.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I only have plans for the backend, not the format. One of the first things I criticized on this wiki was the design of that template, but I didn't (and still don't) want to mess with it myself, because I'm not very good at layout design. It's been almost a year since I first brought that up, and nothing's happened. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:55, 18 April 2013 (UTC)


[[User:Chieftain Alex/Templates/Dialogue]]:

{{User:Chieftain Alex/Templates/Dialogue | So, it took me a stupid number of hours to realise I could copy the source-code for a manually formatted dialogue and copy it
 | dialogue 1 = Does it meet expectations? Replies must use the template! :P
 | next 1 = {{User:Chieftain Alex/Templates/Dialogue | Relyk says..
            | dialogue 1 = Yes.
            | next 1 = {{User:Chieftain Alex/Templates/Dialogue | I'm not sure about the whitespacing, I would prefer a two spaces like templates. The large indents are pointless when it wraps in the editor anyways, which sucks. I'd definitely be happier with this because it's very difficult to indent correctly for lengthier dialogues and follow the flow.
                       | dialogue 1 = Yes.
                       | next 1 = 
                       | end =  I don't think anything we do can solve the dialogue chains anet employs, like [[Researcher Widd]]. It's ridiculous.--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] '''~''' [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">talk</font>]] > 18:55, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
            | next 2 = Hello world
            | end = No.
 | end = Lol. Bet we never use this. -[[User talk:Chieftain Alex|<span style="font-family:Constantia;color:#D2691E;font-size-adjust:0">'''Chieftain '''Alex</span>]][[File:User Chieftain Alex sig.png|16px|link=User talk:Chieftain Alex]] 22:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
No, I’m not doing this. You do realize btw, that using your sandbox now on the talk pages will require you to keep the sandbox forever? :P
Also, I really hate that template already. Did you ever write a dialogue from the game? It sucks a lot, and the syntax was already very simple. With a huge template and lots of indexed parameters it’s just getting worse. And also very unflexible for edge cases. poke | talk 19:12, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I have done plenty of dialogue. I find the syntax complicated trying to line up indentation and making sure my ends are in the right place. I don't see how the template makes it any worse than it is now. And what edge cases :D--Relyk ~ talk > 19:32, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
I did post this ages ago, before I moved it elsewhere. Whatever it was an exercise in annoying wikicode/html. --Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:34, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

When is it appropro to use the "main" tag?[edit]

I thought it was ok as long as you sort of summarized what was in that article or used a part of that article, but the one I did was clearly different info from what was on that page -- Is that why it's not used? Just curious! User Freshberrysmoothie Blueberry Icon.jpg Fresh Berry Smoothie 12:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

For the ascended equipment article, it was used within the acquisition section which is really about how you get such equipment. However the linked page was a list of all ascended equipment, so the {{main}} template does not really fit there.
The template should rather be used when an article just touches the basic idea about something, but there exists an actual real separate article about that topic. Good examples are the Wintersday activities where the article itself only gives a short introduction about the activities, but full articles exist that explain the whole thing in depth and also give further links to even more detailed pages. Similar examples can be found on other game release “overviews”, for example on the Gathering Storm page about Guild missions (although I think that there should be some abstract on the page below that template). poke | talk 15:57, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
The list of ascended equipment shouldn't have "acquisition" sections. It's done on some pages like item nomenclature when it shouldn't. We should summarize section and the acquisition on the primary page (Details on rings, amulets, and back items. Much of the information on infusing items should refer to infusion. I'd be happy to list infused items on that page so you can give the ascended item, how it is infused, and the resulting infused item all on the same page. Then you would have a section and main tag about infusion on the ascended equipment page. I haven't messed with it since I don't have much experience with ascended equipment--Relyk ~ talk > 18:44, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks poke, that helps! Ok, so relyk you're basically saying that the two pages should be merged together? Cuz I can work on that then to incorporate what's on the list page to the actual page User Freshberrysmoothie Blueberry Icon.jpg Fresh Berry Smoothie 00:56, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
The only information on the list page should be the list of ascended equipment, literally the tables. The rest can be merged with the primary article. I think we would link to each section on the list for the rings, amulets, and so on from the Ascended Equipment. I would actually link to the vendors since they already list all the ascended equipment and provide context on where to acquire the items. The list of ascended equipment serves more as a reference to the stats of the items themselves. Not sure if people agree on that...--Relyk ~ talk > 01:08, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Profession sort order[edit]

I had to look at the infobox changes to actually understand what it is for. – Wouldn’t it make more sense to keep that out of the article? After all, semantically, professions have an order, and a skill is for a profession, but it does not have a sort order. The sort order is something that results when applying the order on the profession to the association of skill to profession. So ideally I would like to see this on the presentation side. Although, is that even possible when writing the query? poke | talk 08:02, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Queries can only be sorted by property. The wiki sorts skill lists by profession type then profession instead of the natural ordering. If we want queries to be consistent with the rest of the wiki, we need to use a some property to do that sorting. SMW doesn't provide a way to set a sorting method on the property itself. The only way to do it would be to prefix a 1, 2, 3, etc. to each Allows value ("1 - Guardian") so it can sort the way you want. It's an internal property for queries, but I doubt we can omit it from the fact box. The other solution would be to sort professions alphabetically, which is unlikely at this point.--Relyk ~ talk > 10:10, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Relyk's right, unfortunately. While you can refer to property chains (e.g. Is for profession.Has profession sort order) in the query string of an #ask function, you can only return properties that appear directly on the pages selected, and you can only sort on the properties being returned.
However, once have #arraymap...
{{#arraymap:Guardian,Warrior,Engineer,Ranger,Thief,Elementalist,Mesmer,Necromancer|,|@@@|{{#ask:[[<parameterized skill query>]][[Is for profession::@@@]]|.....}}|}}
So what Relyk did can be considered a temporary workaround. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:48, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I see, thank you for the explanations :) poke | talk 16:39, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


We kinda collided earlier on "fixing" the conjure pages. My only intent was to get rid of the dumb old-style table templates. If you want to go through the other pages and revert the rest of the IP's changes, that won't bother me. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:52, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hearts list items[edit]

I have recently found your {{heart|whatever}} which parallels the elegant {{event|whatever}}. I like them because they avoid having to write levels more than once and the icon ofc. However, in zone pages, the hearts are written without an icon and frequently with a level. I am not sure if a {{heartless|whatever}} would be useful to keep the level with the heart but no icon, reducing room for errors, if you see what I mean. Or am I just being lazy? Claret 01:26, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Pretty sure people just didn't follow a format when they omitted the icon. Ishmael implemented the template, it just copypaste from event of course. Our format is updated to display the icon and level. So replace with template everywhere :P--Relyk ~ talk > 01:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I was not clear enough, the {{heart|whatever}} works fine in AREA lists, but in ZONES, it doesn't look right eg Grawlenfjord. If you used the {{heart|whatever}} there then you would have a "title" icon of a heart with a list below full of heart icons. See below
Complete heart (map icon).png
Renown Hearts
But if there was an iconless version, you could preserve the level being the same as on the heart's page. Clear as mud?? Sorry. --Claret 01:50, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Blegh, I knew you were talking about that. We can remove the icons in "section" headers. The reason it has that is because the icon is the same as we are sorting by the type of location. I'm more fond of individual icons. Slightly redundant but matches how they are listed on zone pages and the events and looks better.--Relyk ~ talk > 01:58, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I favour that way too but feel it's going a little to far without a consensus. Claret 02:16, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree with moving the icons back to the individual entries. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:24, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Do The Verdence and Grenbrack Delves look OK? --Claret 04:35, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I agree, this looks much better than in front of the heading (especially when the event one didn’t have one to begin with). poke | talk 12:56, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
I updated The Verdence for consistency - if we move the heart icon out of the mini-header, then we need to move all the icons. I also converted it from a mix of dl (;) and ul (*) to pure dl (;:), since the bullets are now 100% redundant with the icons. The only problem here is that the nested dl's in the event list look odd, due to the margins defined in the CSS rules. I'm not sure how to fix it, though, because we rely on that spacing both for talk pages and for dialogue trees. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Here's a try The Verdence at avoiding ;: with its extra spacing which looks bad, IMHO. I used {{event success}} and {{event failure}} for outdenting, and, I would guess, could use multiples of these to outdent more. It was decided a while ago that {{event success}} was to be used when something followed irregardless of the success/failure of the preceding. Thoughts? --Claret 15:12, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Won't work for chains with more than 2 events, i.e. Wychmire Swamp. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:37, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Then stop multiple outdents, the arrows indicate a chain. Again, IMHO, it looks better. User:Claret/Sandbox --Claret 15:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
You mean indents ("outdent" is when you decrease the margin, going "out" to a higher level of the outline). No, that doesn't look better, because having all the chained events at the same level makes it look they are all dependent on the first event and will all trigger immediately when the first one finishes. The blighted growth and grub events happen at the same time, but in between the Gamarien and avatars events, which is impossible to figure out if all the events are at the same level. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes I mean indents, brain glitch. Well we'll have to disagree that it would be confusing. When my father started on the lists, he did a great deal of the indenting Success/failure additions, there was almost none at that time and the chained events were not even grouped together. But, I guess someone would have eventually. However, since you're one of "those who have to be convinced", can I suggest an {{event blank}} empty icon space is made of the same width as the arrows, shouldn't take one of the experts more than a few minutes. That can be used for indenting to multiple levels ie {{event blank}}…{{event blank}}{{event success}}. Maybe this discussion should be moved? --Claret 18:53, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Why do you want to use icons to indicate event chains in areas? Some event chains move from one area to another. We just want a list of events that start in the area. Zone pages are better for showing event chains, since all the events at at least occur in the zone.--Relyk ~ talk > 21:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I was just remarking on the structure that was there and how the wiki's CSS affects the layout when converted to a dl format. If you want to convert the event listings on area pages to a completely flat list, that's fine, since it avoids any ambiguity by not intending to show event chains in the first place. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, I misunderstood your comment as a "want". Still, it might be nicer to use a "blank" for indents in the zone list but, sadly, I can't make one to try. --Claret 21:50, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't bother, that ends up being complicated. If we wanted to show event branching in a presentable way, it won't be with a basic outline.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:00, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
OK, fine, so I will flat list in areas and use indenting to try to tell the story in zones although, as you know, it's far from straightforward in some cases and the true branching can't be reflected in a simple way. --Claret 22:03, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
(Reset indent) That's exactly what Relyk said: "If we wanted to show event branching in a presentable way, it won't be with a basic outline.". —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:33, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
I think claret is paraphrasing me--Relyk ~ talk > 22:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Indeed she was, I may flick through this thread in a few months time and adding my comment makes it clearer to me at least. Anyway, thank you both for your input. :) --Claret 22:38, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
If we're doing flat lists, why not just SMW them into existance instead? e.g. {{Area events}} and it would call up the query for "Property:Starts in=PAGENAME", sort by Property:Has event level and format using {{event}}.. its something relyk was born to make! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:10, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
We can, we need #arraymaps evenetually since some events occur in multiple areas of one zone, like the Flame and Frost events.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:12, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Done... I can't think of any issues not to have it.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:30, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
And you use it how? --Claret 23:35, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
{{area events}}--Relyk ~ talk > 23:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Sorry to be a PITA but it lists the skill point events also, is this what you want because if so, it is negating the change form event to initiator. --Claret 23:50, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
Dunno if smw can exclude "Has event type::Skill challenge" -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Nor me but if it can't... --Claret 00:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Queries so fun. SMW doesn't have a NOT function, but you can restrict the query to the types you do want.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:11, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
You're going to hate me even more. It works, it gives a randomly ordered list without the meta event heading. I think I'll leave it for now sorry and thanks. --Claret 00:16, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
You should just add an example to the template page so I can see what you're talking about claret. We won't be using the meta event heading either for the same reason events in a meta event span multiple areas. The meta event the event is part of isn't important on an area page anyways.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:24, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Yes, SMW has a not function.
I also modified this one to be alphabetical within level, so it's not randomly ordered (Relyk's was random within level). But the meta event thing is still a problem, and it reintroduces the bullets, which is what started this whole sidetrack in the first place. Both of those could be solved, but it would require quite a bit more work. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
This started off with me asking for advice about hearts' lists. It got diverted onto more general lists and ended up apparently reversing what is common practice, or so it seems, in areas, i.e. formatted lists. I am grateful for the help although the thing I asked for was "not needed". But Caledon Forest is quoted as the norm. Caledon Forest's areas have "formatted" lists of events ie normal ones then any meta. If there's a consensus to change the format then fine, otherwise, I'll leave them alone. And the area that was 'messed up' was Wychmire Swamp. <Yawn> I am tired and going to bed. Thanks again. I'll check back to see what you guts decide. --Claret 00:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
I knew it would be random, I was just lazy >.>--Relyk ~ talk > 00:36, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Nice function. Please add a default pointing to the page's name (it's a bit redundant to have to type in the page name every time). Also, can't other things be done this way? Like the Ally npcs, for example? --Alad 00:46, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
It defaults to the PAGENAME. It can't be done for most articles yet like NPCs because they don't set a "Located in" property.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:48, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
I could have sworn it didn't work before :) Now it does. Can you change the error message from "No events found in this area" to "No events recorded yet for this area" or something similar, to not give the impression that the area really has no events in it if none have been recorded yet? Thanks.
If you get the error message, don't use the template or remove it. you don't use a template that displays events in an area for area without events ^^--Relyk ~ talk > 01:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Oh yeah, that was another problem with this semantic template that I'd meant to mention: it will only list events that are already documented on the wiki. A lot of locations have redlinks for event names that have been observed, but have yet to be properly documented. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:25, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
That's the best parts of dynamically generated content, it's probably as fast to create the infobox as it is to add it to event lists.--Relyk ~ talk > 02:34, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Just used {{area events}} on The Verdence and it returned the historical events as well as the current. Sorry. Sounds like another 'not' is needed. --Claret 09:41, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Nah, we have a boolean property for that--Relyk ~ talk > 09:42, 2 May 2013 (UTC)


curse is such a shitfest, it took me a whole hour to use css to remove everything they added. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Was wondering if you were honestly going to wipe all the crap off.--Relyk ~ talk > 02:55, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Good thing it's a dead game huh? - They

#ask default[edit]

In regards to this, you can't rely on the default parameter of #ask or #show, because it only gets used if there are no results from the query. It doesn't matter if the requested parameter(s) have values or not, if the query returns a page, default is ignored. That is why we have to also manage defaults outside of the #ask/#show queries. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:52, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, wrong flow of logic. Doing {{{2| {{smw_name}} }}} would remove a redundancy, which as my first approach. The part I got wrong was the second parameter still needs to override smw_line as the default is based on the query for smw_name. I think.--Relyk ~ talk > 01:17, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Rune table[edit]

Nice stuff that. Sorry about the test parameter ^___^

What changes will be required for using a similar template on the sigils? (it was either sigils or runes that didn't always have 3 tiers.. I don't recall which) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 14:05, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

All sigils and runes are assumed to have three versions, there are some which don't, mostly some minor versions of sigils. I'm having the table just leave it blank to make it apparent that version doesn't exist. I think for sigils and other upgrade components, we will use #arraymap to set a [[Property:Has variables]] or something. Sigils only have the one variable fact. We will eventually have an upgrade component bonus subobject for each bonus/effect for the runes, sigils, and other upgrade components. Like I know what I'm talking about.--Relyk ~ talk > 14:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
I'm probably going to start adding {{rune and sigil nav}} to things, if you want to make a sigil table up then I can add that at the same time. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:07, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

arraymap syntax[edit]

The most common practice is to use @@@ as the array variable because it is highly visible within the ensuing wikicode and because @ is never used for anything else in wikicode. A single @ is okay, but not quite as good, and x is just bad. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I was going to ask if you wanted to use the @@@@ semantic in the example, but you would change it anyways if you wanted to with your trolling.--Relyk ~ talk > 15:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Area Events issues[edit]

I've been trying to use {{area events}} to list events on area pages but I have run into a problem with this. For example Help Rupek and Porgar deliver water to their village takes place in two places but neither area page will pick this event up using that code. The event page looks ok to me, both areas do list in the infobox.( I don't fully agree with this example, it should be Degun Shun and Unbroken Expanse but my problem will still remain even if I fix this minor issue.) Yoe Dude (talk) 15:05, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Quickly Rylek, use #arraymaps on the events infobox!! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:37, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The problem is that the “areaverbatim” prevents SMW from setting the property but there is no way to set the property manually then. And I semantically I don’t think the event “Starts in” (that’s the property name) multiple areas. So either the property is misnamed (“Takes place in”?), or only one location should be set for it. But then it would still make sense to list the event on the area page to make it say “Hey, this event can still occur here; it may not start there, but you can still participate in it, when it’s running.” poke | talk 16:21, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
I think that is what the original editor of the event wanted to convey. Most events of the guard/help the whatever do/go wherever type will have this issue. They start where the NPC is located at and move elsewhere's sometimes across multiple areas. I too think they should be noted on area pages where a large percent of the action takes place. I often find the events far from their start with the NPC's down, and I think more often than not players will find these events all ready in progress. Thanks for the explanation of this issue. Yoe Dude (talk) 20:41, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The event is initiated from the start npc in Heretic Plain but the actual event starts in Unbroken Expanse. We have the npc_map parameter to have a map showing the location of the NPC to start and the NPC page. Multiple "starts in" properties is multiple instances of the event i.e. the Flame and Frost events.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:14, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
You are missing the point though. When I’m in an area, and I look at its article, I want to know all the events that somehow take place there. Not only those that are starting there. poke | talk 23:30, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
The only events that move are "protect the NPC" events or similar. That's not this event. If you want to pull that semantically, you need a "Occurs in" property. It's not useful information considering you don't know which area or which portion of the area the event. Do we really need to know whether an event crosses a certain area?--Relyk ~ talk > 23:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
There are also roaming boss events, which would be a stronger argument for the Occurs in property. The starts in property would still be where the event spawns.--Relyk ~ talk > 14:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
"Starts in" should be specifically where the event starts, not where the startNPC is located; i.e. if, after you talk to the NPC to trigger the event, they then go for a little jog before the event actually begins.
Which "roaming boss events" are you thinking of? The only ones I can think of are typically contained to a single area. I can think of some (cave troll) that don't wander on their own, but can be pulled into adjacent areas. I'm not sure how we'd qualify that, though, since it's the players, and not the event itself, that make it move into another area.
Then there are the guild bounties - they can start in nearly any area of the zone, but they don't always affect every area the way a caravan event will always affect the areas it passes through. Should we just tag them at the zone level instead of worrying about specific areas?
Maybe we need a bit more granularity in the properties than simply "starts in" and "occurs in". Maybe we should tailor them to specific kinds of events:
I know there are more situations I haven't covered, but this could be a good framework to start from. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:49, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
I know Defeat the Mark II YF-Gold golem that's destroying the area moves between Waste Hollows and Pyrite Peninsula. But there are very few events like that. We would definitely use the zone for guild bounties. Setting the zone would be the simple approach any of these and have a map show the movement. I don't think we need to "Covers area" for collect events, the collect NPC doesn't move and it's only portions for individual areas, which is why I have it mention to use the start_npc for event location.
Because an event could be in an area or only a portion of the area, the properties aren't very useful alone. The fact you can complete the events in any of the areas the boss passes through makes me inclined to create the "Passes through" property so we can pull it up semantically on area pages. We could display a gallery of event images on the area pages, which would show the portion of the area the event passes through. The "Passes through" and "Covers area" properties would then act as flags to grab the images.--Relyk ~ talk > 15:07, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I noted the following on a couple of events. Repel the centaur attacks and hold the earthworks & Repel the centaur attack and hold the earthworks are an example. The "attacks" version has been flagged for deletion 22 May and has nothing on it except the deletion request. However, it was still showing up in {{area events}} for Earthworks Bluff. Despite clicking multiple times on the time display/flushing my caches etc etc, both versions were still showing. I had to go to the "wrong" one and add an infobox with a fake location to remove it from the list. Obviously, the caches are not updating somehow. 3 weeks should be enough. Just so you know. --Claret (talk) 20:37, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

It's the same move bug where the properties get duplicated after a move. Just create the dummy infobox to fix it like you did.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:49, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Sure but it's something that needs looking into/fixing. When the old version is deleted, does that fix it also? --Claret (talk) 20:54, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Yes, ishmael confirmed the properties are removed with the page is deleted iirc.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:58, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Good. Pity deleting pages has got so far behind. --Claret (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
You're not remembering correctly - it's if the moved page is deleted and then restored, the properties are likewise deleted and then reparsed. Deleting the redirect at the original title does nothing. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:11, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Are you saying that the fake area "trick" is needed still? Or what? Sorry, a page, the original, still seems to appear in the list. What, if anything, should be done apart from the trick? It's more than a cache problem, surely. The example I gave had been redirected and all the rest of the contents deleted about 3 weeks before I noticed the problm. --Claret (talk) 22:17, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
Probably. Or ishmael can rebuild the semantic database once a month. I have no idea beyond that.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:24, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
It's not related to the cache at all, it's a bug in SMW. Nothing we can do about it, except try not to move pages. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:51, 21 June 2013 (UTC)
I guess I will keep an idea on the move log. Is a fix with SMW in the works? Is it recognised as a bug? --Claret (talk) 23:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

What do you think about this so far?[edit]

Skill Times/Pseudo-DPS User Freshberrysmoothie Blueberry Icon.jpg Fresh Berry Smoothie 21:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Area hearts[edit]

It struck me when I was adding {{area events}} to areas that a similarly configured {{area hearts}} may well be useful. Thoughts? --Claret (talk) 00:11, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Ratcatcher Knoll - as it's your routine and you may like to know of error. Thanks --Claret (talk) 08:30, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
To reopen this topic, is a version possible that outputs absolutely nothing, not even a return or a space if there are no hearts? Is it possible to have variant that works like the "upgraded" {{area event}} ie pushes a header if wanted/ Go on, you know you can.  :) --Claret (talk) 18:04, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
If there are no hearts, you don't use the template. The point of displaying text if there are no hearts is to provide feedback for the query, not for display purposes. Like I said before, comment on the {{area events}}, it's easier to read and respond to :P--Relyk ~ talk < 18:09, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
That;s true, I had hoped to put {{area new heart stuff}} in a zone's location list so that if a heart appeared, it would be picked up "automatically". I'll try to copy the extra functionality from area events to area hearts. Worst I can do is have to revert. --Claret (talk) 18:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)


<sigh> "we discussed it". OK, I guess you did, somewhere, not on the formatting discussion page but I am sure at least two of you did form a consensus (irony). I just wish you guys would keep the discussion on the relevant talk pages, it makes it difficult to find stuff when it's dotted about the wiki. If you had read the comments both on the wiki and on other sites such as reddit, you may remember that this "rules that are discussed in obscure places" and the obscurity being relative for someone who isn't in the clique, is seen as a major problem. Anyway, it messes up the category at the bottom of the page, maybe you want to suppress the category for zone "events", and maybe it's a good idea to check for such errors/problems before implementing a change. Thanks. --Claret (talk) 10:02, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok, it doesn't matter where the discussion took place. I can't always find discussion for why certain templates were implemented in such a way and I bring it up on the talk page. If you disagree with it, we can have a new discussion instead of simply reverting the edit. And you can do it on the relevant talk page if the user (myself) is claiming consensus. I've had to do that all the time working on templates. People haven't updated formatting and documentation either. I plan to get around to it eventually but I doing a bunch of other shit.
I already know the categorization is a problem, and that's because no one ever bothered approaching or fixing it in the first place. I wasn't part of the discussion for the original categorization so I'd have to look at how to implement it.--Relyk ~ talk < 10:33, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Here's the basic code to fix it--Relyk ~ talk < 10:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
(1) The code looks good but I have no idea what it does. I am not a coder. (2) at your advice, I am moving it to the formatting page. I just don't follow your logic. --Claret (talk) 11:41, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Zone as area[edit]

Setting the zone Southsun Cove as the area here, made it show “Kryta” as the zone and categorized it into Kryta events, which is obviously not how it should work. I guess we need something mechanism to specify the zone there directly and skip the “get the parent area for this area and use it as the zone” mechanism… :/ poke | talk 22:39, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

*points to section above*--Relyk ~ talk < 22:41, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Oh, didn’t know it was related to this. Anyway, that seems to be only about categorization but the next issue would be that you shouldn’t even have to specify the zone the meta event takes place as “area”. We either have to have a generic “location” parameter which just takes *anything* and figues out the rest, or we have a explicite “zone” parameter (again) where we can specify a zone. poke | talk 22:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
It needs to be changed to location--Relyk ~ talk < 22:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Reporting wiki bugs#Item icon. Remember that empty "unused" parameter that you removed? ;D -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I hate that behavior, passing a null value to a parameter should be the same as passing whitespace.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:10, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

reverting your REDIRECT[edit]

I am reverting your REDIRECT of the Item ID page to the API page ( They are two different pages. There is no information on the API page that tells a player how to use the game+wiki to get the Item, WP, POI ID's. 00:24, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I’ve redirected it to Chat link format which is the actual page that documents the chat links. I think that page already covers everything you have included on the Item id page, but explains a lot of the technical background. poke | talk 00:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
that's a better page.--Relyk ~ talk < 02:42, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

PvE can be a location[edit]

This, right now, includes all of the World of Tyria, excepting the Dragon Ball arena, which is under Lion's Arch, in the sewers; and the Fractals of the Mists. Since there's PvP areas in Tyria and PvE areas in the Mists, "Tyria" or "World of Tyria" can't be used to specify all locations under PvE game mode rules. It may sound weird to you, but the only term left is "PvE" used as a location. In the same way "WvW" may refer to both the game mode and the WvW maps as a location, PvE used as a location encompasses every location with PvE game mode rules. MithUser MithranArkanere Star.pngTalk 14:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me for jumping in here. Using PvE as a location really bends what "location" was/is meant to signify. I was of the impression that it was a (virtual) physical location. PvE, on the other hand, is a state of play. It might be that PvP is used as a location but, if so, that's wrong too, at least by my understanding/definition.
It would be nice if one of the clever guys could turn Tyria (world) to display World of Tyria if used in a location. --Claret (talk) 14:44, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
PvE is not a location. Tyria is a continent that lies within Tyria (world). The Mists is a region, for the purpose of location semantics, that lies within Tyria (world). PvP instances inside PvE are located within the area where they are accessed. The object isn't "located" in a specific location, so we can use Tyria (world) for the purpose of semantics. This may seem weird to you, but it keeps the location hierarchy structure. The Dragon Ball Arena is an instance within Trader's Plaza, not Lion's Arch.--Relyk ~ talk < 14:46, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't sound weird to me. It is simply false lore. The wiki is meant for players to use. Not wiki editors alone. We are conveying both information and lore for players to see and use. You know yourself what you mean. But are you sure all players will understand "All PvE locations" when they read "Tyria (world)"? We can't give false lore for the sake of semantics. As soon as there's something false in a page, that must raise an alarm, and action must be taken to fix it. If how semantics are set makes a piece of wrong information appear, semantics must be changed so they relate to how both the game mechanics and lore are set by the devs for players to see. Not how neatly wikified the data is and how much sense can it make to a wiki editor. If you say that something that is actually in the Mists is in the world, when it's not, you'll be putting wrong lore in the wiki. Technically Mists could do, as Tyria is within the Mists, but that could also be confusing as maost players understand "The Mists" as "Everything in the Mists that is not the world". But if you say it's in PvE, you won't be putting wrong information, and players will understand it. The perfect thing to put there would be a location page that encompasses all PvE locations, but the only term for that is the name of the mode itself: PvE. Why? The term PvE is not a location, but used as a location is a metonym for "All locations with PvE game mode rules set", it's an accurate and appropriate shorthand for it that every single player understand after a short while of hearing the term. Metonyms just come naturally, like when people say "I'm in WvW" when asked about where they are instead saying "I'm in a WvW map". MithUser MithranArkanere Star.pngTalk 15:36, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
The purpose of location as far as objects is to list the area where the object can be found. Listing "PvE" is as meaningless as "Tyria (world)". In this case where the objects spawn from an enemy, the location parameter doesn't serve any purpose. If you want a parameter to address "loot objects", go head and discuss that, as no one has bothered to yet.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:49, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Leaving the parameter empty would work too as "PvE" is still general, but if left empty, the infobox will have an ugly 'unspecified' line. I'll check if someone used to edit templates can get rid of that line as I'm not confident with templates. Anyhow, my only real concerns are having a lie or having a text like "unspecified" that implies the information is missing or unknown, when we do known that information. MithUser MithranArkanere Star.pngTalk 16:04, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Already removed :P--Relyk ~ talk < 16:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

{{recipe list}}[edit]

per Gift of Spiders (should display Arachnophobia) / Gift of Souls (should display The Crossing) - it doesn't seem to work. cache issue or something? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:51, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure it isn't the changes you added? XD--Relyk ~ talk < 12:26, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

String Bug[edit]

Never seen it so far. --Claret (talk) 01:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Try walking through the tall grass in Viridian Forest. Felix Omni Signature.png 01:32, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Check Glyph of Elemental Power tooltip in-game. The string bug was added after the recent update.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:35, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Technically, it's not a bug, those are the actual strings in the data files. The parentheses are basically a dev's note to themselves that they need to revise these strings before they go live. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:00, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
It's a trivial bug in that it's included in the live game. Or an anomaly. Or whatever. I just mark it down as a bug.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:19, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks for info. --Claret (talk) 03:22, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Preview play day[edit]

Trying more direct, send me an email through the wiki (go to my user page, click Email this user on left side), I have the info for this weekend...and trust me that you want as much time as possible to set up. Vahkris (talk) 20:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I was waiting for you to send me an email :<--Relyk ~ talk < 22:20, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
/facepalm. Figures. I sent the info, let me know if you didn't get it. Vahkris (talk) 00:25, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Looks like you're doing a great job so far! -23:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC) 15:36, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

That's some <insert random superlative> write up. Well done.
Don't forget to send Stephane links to the articles you wrote. I don't know if you need to send him all 72 (although I'm sure he'd love that), but probably should at least send him the main ones (release, achievements, locations, activities, hunts, etc). Vahkris (talk) 17:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

More crafting template tune ups[edit]

Can you edit in the ability to specify icons for Template:Crafting/Item, Template:Crafting/DualItem, and Template:Crafting/TripleItem? I'm working on cleaning up the crafting pages and with this and the edit you just recently made, I could get rid of all the annoying default icons. Thanks, Psycho Robot (talk) 21:49, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

We don't need those any more. If you create separate recipes on the item page, {{recipe list}} should pull them all up and list them. Of course, it will be sorted by rating first, so you would simply sort by name to group them together.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:13, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused by what you mean. Take, for instance, Armorsmith/Bronze_Recipes. How should I fix that? Psycho Robot (talk) 22:39, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Bah, ignore me on that first comment. It's not a simple "default icon" issue. {{Crafting/Item}} or (the new template) {{recipe list row}} isn't appropriate since it's not an actual recipe and you aren't listing items, the variation parameter got crammed in there it seems to try and address these "overviews". We need to either do it manually or create a template for the purpose of creating a recipe overview. We currently give an overview of the recipes and say 12 variations. We should end up listing all 12 recipes for each armor piece, but that would be on the actual overview page like Chain Helm. I mean, we could just provide a link because Chain Helm is itself an overview of the item created. Those crafting pages are an entire discussion in themselves. Using a "recipe-ish" format for an overview is confusing, I think we should probably present it differently then how it's currently implemented. For now, if you want to get rid of the default icon, hardcode it in in place of a template.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Doing it differently makes sense to me. I'll do somthing... different. Later. Psycho Robot (talk) 23:27, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

And another thing! The recipe box needs to be a little wider, as seen in Rejuvenating Intricate Wool Insignia. Or it should be set up to word wrap gracefully. I dunno. Thanks, Psycho Robot (talk) 17:39, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox3. better css. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:20, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Why the 10px top/bottom margin? That's just wasted space as far as I can tell. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:28, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
On my css or on the recipe template already? (both are there) - its to align with nearby STDT e.g. on Destroyer Sword. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 07:58, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

variable collisions[edit]

Something we need to watch out for - variable name collisions. All #vars are global, meaning that if we reuse the same variable name in different templates, those templates can step on each other. This was happening with {{recipe list result format}} and {{item icon}}: the former was storing the actual page name in it, then the latter was overwriting it with the canonical name, which then caused problems when the first template tried looking up the item's rarity (when canonical name != pagename, no results).

The solution is simple, luckily: we just need to prefix variable names with a local identifier. In this case, I renamed the #vars to rlist_smw_name and itemicon_smw_name. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:24, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Gah, no point in using smw_name to avoid collision with name if I simply use the smw_name everywhere. I was kind of reserving name for these cases too :(--Relyk ~ talk < 04:41, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Dunno if you recall[edit]

Do you remember suggesting that weapons should have a property along the lines of "skin used on weapon type" - for pages with {{item infobox}} + type = weapon skin? (at least I think it was you) - I'd like some input on Template talk:Item infobox if you have any time. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Suffix confusion[edit]

Their is confusion of whether to include or exclude suffixes in trinkets. The the trinkets section, I see every other trinket with suffix included so when I made a new one for the charged quartz trinkets I included the suffix too. Am I missing something or perhaps that page is done wrong to begin with. Defrule (talk) 23:56, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Those need to be moved/redirected, you'll see we also have a Chrysocola Orichalcum Ring. The logic behind it is you can change the suffix by changing the upgrade component, and then you have a "Chrysocola Orichalcum Ring of the Berserker" and suddenly don't have an article for it. The recipe will still have the full name of the item but will link to the base name without the suffix.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)


i am indeed fairly glorious <3 -Auron 12:23, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Or so his mum told him. :) --Claret (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
relyk's mum tells me that nightly tbh -Auron 14:46, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
and when mum isn't home, pa is always available. twas many a glorious night--Relyk ~ talk < 14:52, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Area event issue[edit]

Not sure if you noticed this or not but... when using {{area events|show header=y}} and there are no events for the area, it looks to me like it adds two blank lines of whitespace. The heart one doesn't do this. No clue why but I think this was something you made and maybe there is some issue with it? Arcovian Foothills is an example. Yoe Dude (talk) 17:37, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Don't know why poke thought it would be a good idea to put that parameter in. Just makes it less clear what the template is doing and we could decide on that behavior by default. Switching the two templates around creates the same whitespace. Ishmael details the problem on Template_talk:Recipe_list_by_discipline#Whitespace. I think it's because the default output is whitespace instead of not having a default, so it's creating the extra line for the query output displaying... nothing. Would simply move the logic to a query with and without the parameters (You coul wrap it in trim, but that's stupid).--Relyk ~ talk < 19:36, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation and the details but they are almost Latin to me. I didn't even think of changing them around.Yoe Dude (talk) 20:00, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
The point of inserting the header from the template is that we can use the template on areas where there are currently no events. So when events are added, the list will just work out of the box and display them correctly. If there are no events though, the whole template will just return nothing and the header will also not appear (otherwise there would be a dangling header with no content). This is not the default behaviour (i.e. requires a parameter), so that existing pages that already have a hard-coded header do not show a second header. See also this discussion.
The reason for the whitespace is generally that a template call on its own line will stay on its own line even if the template does not output anything. So you end up with three empty lines (one before and after the template call, and the template call itself), which makes the wiki parser create a new (empty) paragraph, i.e. visible whitespace… :/ poke | talk 14:21, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Template:Quartermaster/camp Help Requested[edit]

I recently made a template, or attempted to, and I copied someone else's template box from another page because it was brilliant and awesome, but even though it works fine on the template page (, it refuses to link as a template to other pages, such as, Supply Camps. Deathdealers747 (talk) 19:35, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

[[Quartermaster/camp]] isn't a template, it would need to be in the Template namespace (Template:Quartermaster/camp). To transclude an article, you put a colon in front ({{:Quartermaster/camp}}). Transcluding pages is frowned upon and I think we can rework this to a proper template. It should look like {{Quartermaster|camp}} and/or create the template subpage Template:Quartermaster/camp for the template to grab and present. To be honest, we wouldn't need templates (or transclusion) for these tables if they were static, but they are changed often due to rebalancing in WvW that it's worth doing so.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:53, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
Confused. Do you want me to create a new page using Template:Quartermaster/camp, or do you want me just to move the same page to Template:Quartermaster/camp. Because I've never heard of a subpage before... Deathdealers747 (talk) 16:39, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
I went ahead and made the template: {{quartermaster}}. Quartermaster/camp is a subpage of Quartermaster. If you do this with templates, we call them subtemplates.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:58, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

references for lore[edit]

I think it's a good idea on pages, particularly about areas and background lore, to start referencing where the info comes from (specifically the NPC that provides the info). Not everyone is going to click through the links for the NPCs in the area to find out why it's being labeled as such (The Great Collapse in particular, so there's lots of confusion on this area). Vahkris (talk) 16:23, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Don't reference, make wikilink. The page is already wikilinked in the article, so it's not needed unless you want to hardcore wiklink stuff.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:28, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I shall make the entire page wikilinks. Vahkris (talk) 16:39, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I want to see a sea of blue.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
(don’t overlink though) poke | talk 17:17, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
^--Relyk ~ talk < 17:19, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I would never... (deletes edit) Vahkris (talk) 18:00, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
(You could always do it like Google…) poke | talk 18:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Actually, the whole reason why I was using references instead of wikilinks is because the wikilinks imply (to me) that it's linking to the page of what that text is about (such as putting a wikilink on "a hero" in a Zephyrite dialogue and sending you to Glint, the words "a hero" mean Glint so you're linking to the actual meaning), not the source of the lore info. References feel more like it's saying where the info came from. I've heard more than once that there are pages that state lore and background info, but don't actually show where you can find who gave that info...such as on the Lion's Arch article saying how the Captain's Council is chosen. There's no source as to who says that, especially since the actual Captain's Council page seemingly contradicts it (it doesn't really, but it's hard to tell). Without the source, we can't easily tell if we're just using old info from some interview or if it's actually in-game. Vahkris (talk) 19:11, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't use the references tag, wikilink to the appropriate NPC dialoque and maybe have a "Related pages" section for relevant articles on lore heavy pages, which are likely wikilinked. More rigorous discussion of lore and sources can take place on the talk page if people want to verify the information. Sourcing every piece of lore would be exhausting for readers. I do understand having footnotes whenever in-game lore isn't consistent is useful.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Achievement templates[edit]

1) Don't mind if I start the discussion here about all achievement tls?

2) Has suggested location - in the "parent" achievements, like dungeon master or emperor's wardrobe, there're links to all "children's" locations. Also, in-game it's the "Suggested Locations" string. So, better change tl property to "locations"... MalGalad 18:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

We don't need to follow the in-game name if it isn't suitable. Having all properties are singular for a naming convention reduces confusion if the property can have one value or multiple values. In-game should really say Suggested Location(s) when most only list one location. Same with how it should be Has achievement tier instead of Has achievement tiers--Relyk ~ talk < 18:33, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Hm, ok.
Was studying smw documentation for a hundredth time, found #var_final. If GW2W supports it, it can be used to easily calculate AP total for the category in the achievement header. I someday accidentally found a page with wiki's versions, it variables extension version should be stated there too, right? MalGalad 18:55, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
We would do it with smw:Help:Sum format. Since we are storing the tiers in Property:Has tiers as a text field instead of an multiple record properties like we should be doing (Property:Has achievement tier), we can't use it yet.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:18, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
We can't store the tiers as records because order matters and you can't order the returned values of a record property. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
We don't need to order them as the values are returned in order they are set. Isn't it identical to Property:Has ingredient? And it doesn't look like we can use sum on records stored in subobjects :/--Relyk ~ talk < 19:37, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Under some basic assumptions, yes, a database will return rows from a table in the same order they were inserted, but you should never assume that. If the data in those rows is ever modified, the order will change; if a query is run in parallel mode, all bets are off as the different threads can return in any order and you can't predict which thread will return which rows.
Ingredients are already not being returned in the same order as they're defined. Look at the order of Weak Potion of Centaur Slaying's ingredients, then look at its listing on Jug of Water. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:58, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
So you did that for the case with ingredients because the order is relatively arbitrary. I thought you being clever and abusing the fact that they would always return in order lol.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:12, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Exactly: ingredient order doesn't matter. Do you remember way back when we were trying to set up the rune bonuses? I tried the same thing with using records (<bonus#>;<bonus effect>) but we had to abandon it because we couldn't return them in the correct order for display, and that's why we have Property:Has rune bonus 1-Property:Has rune bonus 6. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
That makes for an ugly property, but I can work with it.--Relyk ~ talk < 20:39, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
New lines are replaced with a space in the property value, we need to use a different delimiter for setting the property value.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:00, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Added code to tally the total for all achievement in the achievement category, using {{parse tier}}. We can use the same code on {{achievement list}} to generate the total automatically :D--Relyk ~ talk < 21:24, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Flame and Frost (achievements) doesn't count total AP, because achievements don't get the Has achievement category property. Any ideas? MalGalad 20:52, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Something with #var:achievement_category, which it shouldn't have been using in the first place, since that variable is grabbing the canonical name instead of the actual page.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:21, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, kinda fix. Strange, it was absolutely okeyish for other categories, and this one didn't differ. Btw, I finished conversion of all achievement category pages ;) MalGalad 21:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) We have a hole: {{achievement}} picks achievements by Has canonical name property; however, it is not set for the most of the achievements, since we somehow decided that it servers as a achievement's page indicator. I.e. achievements without page don't have such property. I'm too sleepy right now to dig in, but I thought you should know. MalGalad 00:52, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

That's the whole point of the property, most achievements don't need a separate page.--Relyk ~ talk < 00:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Right, but then how do we pull them? E.g. some Queen's Gauntlet bosses has achievements, that have self-obvious description and thus don't require a page, but this achievements I guess should be listed on appropriate boss's page too. MalGalad 01:02, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
We can use existing (NPC) pages, if it makes more sense than to create an entirely new page for the achievement itself. It certainly does in this case. The purpose of the achievement template is generate a header as opposed to an infobox on unique pages and maintain the achievement<->article relationship. We need to use {{achievement list}} to generate on existing articles such as NPCs since they can have more than one related achievement identified, like a "Related achievements" section.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:25, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Um, excuse me, but why do you not set canonical names for achievements? They are an in-game thing with a name, we should be annotating that name in the subobject. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:34, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
It's currently coded to set the name of the subobject as the name of the achievement, then the code strips the preface. Want to create explicit property for it?--Relyk ~ talk < 01:38, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
I think I misunderstood, actually, because Template:Achievement table row does set Has canonical name. I don't know what Malgalad was complaining about, then. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:30, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
He's talking about using {{achievement}} on pages that aren't achievement articles. We can use Has canonical name to identify achievement articles (as opposed to automatically linking per discussion) or relate the achievement to existing articles. I think I misconstrued it by actually adding a page parameter to some achievements to create a wikilink to the related article as opposed to an achievement article. That makes a query for the activities related to an article rather arbitrary, so I'm not sure how comfortable I am with it.--Relyk ~ talk < 02:43, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Argh. Looks like you don't understand me and I don't understand English so well to understand you. The perplexity: why do we use Has canonical name to link to achievement pages? It is property to contain achievement name, and for pages we should add another property, Has achievement article or so like that. Why? Because:

{{achievement|Savage Brute}}

Currently you can't pull most of the achievements because they don't have Has canonical name property, they have no their own page. If use {{achievement list}}, how can it help to pull one achievement that don't have page? MalGalad 10:05, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Has canonical name can be any property, it's only used as a flag for the page for the achievement; that can be changed since it's causing unnecessary confusion. The templates weren't designed in mind to create arbitrary infoboxes for individual achievements. That's because they're already on the achievement category. You would be recreating the subobject somewhere else when you should be linking to the actual achievement. Do you have an example for sticking an individual achievement on a page that can't be done with other properties?--Relyk ~ talk < 12:40, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Lets say I want to put Savage Brute achievement on the Masticus's page. How do I do it now? MalGalad 13:10, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I wasn't misunderstanding. It's setting Has canonical name ={{{page|}}} which doesn't make sense. It should be Has canonical name ={{{name}}} because every achievement should have it set, as I said before. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:05, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
@malgalad, Link the article to the NPC article unless you want to create a Savage Brute article.
@ishmael, I explained that twice now, asking if/saying it should be changed. I'm going to stop at that because it seems to be my fault this conversation is going nowhere.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:32, 17 August 2013 (UTC)


Please explain, before I furiously undo.

  • Now it doesn't support waypoints
  • It breaks in-game formatting
  • It doesn't support multiple locations

MalGalad 21:07, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

It supports waypoints once we have the structured implemented, reverted since we don't have one yet. For the other two points, we don't need to follow in-game formatting and it supports multiple locations.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:19, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
I thought we already agreed we follow formatting to a certain extent... As for multiple locations - yeah, I misunderstood the template. Then I replace it with "creates unnecessary line" and "doesn't support dungeon entrances"? :D MalGalad 21:22, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Stealing topic[edit]

5 - 1,2,3,4,5 hmm.. var_final... that would mean I could put the totals row for the SDRF template in the header template, and avoid using a footer altogether! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:49, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

If we wanted to do that. We could also display it on top and bottom.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:52, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

smw results template[edit]

Any ideas on why there is a random newline followed by a < br> tag at the bottom of this table? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:08, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

nvm newline after smw ask queries with tables. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:17, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks ...[edit]

... for fixing my edits ^_^ Need to pay more attention to my preview window next time! --Stephane Lo Presti talk 23:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

No problem, remember to sign your posts with ~~~~ or the signature button ^_^--Relyk ~ talk < 23:25, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I always INTEND to do it, thinking one second "remember to click that signature button" but then seconds later something shows up on my radar and I forget! --Stephane Lo Presti talk 23:39, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Nice pic dude![edit]

Now I have a much better idea who I'm talking too! Yoe Dude (talk) 01:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I wish that was me--Relyk ~ talk < 02:50, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

23:00 Lornar's Pass[edit]

Before that, since launch, based on my memory:

  • Harathi Hinterlands (didn't have actual invasion, but was in the meta)
  • Fireheart Rise
  •  ?? (if I remember correctly and there was smthing before Frostgorge)
  • Frostgorge Sound
  • Timberline Falls
  • Sparkfly Fen
  • Dredgehaunt Cliffs
  • Lornar's Pass

MalGalad 23:56, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Cool. Need a table on the release page :P--Relyk ~ talk < 00:00, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Folks are telling the second map was was LP, again. Hmm... MalGalad 00:05, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

SAB orthography[edit]

(that's the correct term, bee-tee-dubs) It's just New Krytan. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:11, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Well shit, I only remember reading posts that it wasn't New Krytan.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Well apparently they had a case of the dumbs, because your image matches up exactly. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:19, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
That or I haven't had coffee after getting 2 hours of sleep and forgot to remember why I didn't upload that image months ago.--Relyk ~ talk < 15:21, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

What is a dungeon[edit]

Hi Relyk, A few days ago you reverted my changes on Scarlet's Playhouse. You want to call this a dungeon and I disagree. Cause the usage of the term dungeon is being used inconsistent elsewhere too (e.g. SAB) I decided to not discuss this on the playhouse talkpage, but on Talk:Dungeon to have a more generic discussion bout what we should or should not define as a dungeon.Ranique (talk) 07:42, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


Hey Relyk! I saw that you added a comment that the achievements from the original release would be available again. I'd been wondering about that myself. Could you point me towards a source for that statement? Thanks! Ajaxas (talk) 14:25, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

[2]Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:35, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Scarlet Tracking[edit]

Thanks! I had no idea how to do that! New to the game and wiki and I fumbled my way through what I did. Piccolopete (talk) 05:30, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks to the widget, we can do the "fetch" functionality outside infoboxes. The wiki needs to figure a format to present events with multiple locations/ids like these cases.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:39, 31 August 2013 (UTC)


gww:Xunlai Archivist Rylek. That is all. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:12, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Damn, Rylek you look hot! - Yandere Talk to me... 12:26, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
What a dashing person--Rylek (talk) 14:51, 6 September 2013 (UTC)


What's with the "Removing all content from page." thing? —Ventriloquist (talk) 16:53, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

SMW fix!, I won't bother with a note unless it bothers people.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:57, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

subliminal message here[edit]

I just broke it. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I got in the news![edit]

And it's about someone being mad at me. Way to go me. Rakuin (talk) 10:21, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Yay!--Relyk ~ talk < 21:09, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
There's often a thin dividing line between famous and infamous. --Claret (talk) 21:46, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm not presumptuous enough to say people care either way.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:50, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Was thinking about the other guy but you are most definitely famous, IMHO ofc. --Claret (talk) 21:52, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Was referring to both Rakuin and myself. But if you say so, I will proudly say I'm famous.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:06, 5 October 2013 (UTC)