User talk:Relyk/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past content or discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to modify or discuss the content, please do so on the current talk page.


A quick thank you note[edit]

Hi Relyk,

As Phase 2 jsute started and I see that you're spending some time updating the Lost Shores articles, I'd like to tell you how grateful we are that editors like you are sacrificing some of their free time for this effort. I've seen a lot of your names on edits so I wanted to tip my hat off to you (and I'll try to do the same next week for all other contributors!).

From ArenaNet: thank you! --Stephane Lo Presti talk 20:38, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Now create an npc called kyle/kyler/kilor and we can slap a trivia in there! --Chieftain Alex 21:53, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
It will be a Hylek name Rylek--Relyk 21:58, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
Sounds legit. --Chieftain Alex 22:28, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Dear Kyler[edit]

I miss you. Sincerely, your Rask. 17:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Your name sounds really familiar but I can't place it. Vili 点 User talk:Vili 20:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
try pvx. --Chieftain Alex 20:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

User:Relyk/Template:Skill table[edit]

I don't understand SMW at all, but I get the feeling the square brackets after the search category in your example shouldn't be there. Also, why does the initial query {{{1}}} have to be in brackets? --Chieftain Alex 09:58, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

smw:Help:Selecting pages, just how you use it for categories/semantic properties lol. #show is used for individual pages and you don't use brackets.--Relyk 10:11, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
{{#sub | {{{2}}} | 5 }}
{{#sub:string | start | length}}
Also, why were you using the #sub stringfunction without a colon and a start string? Try "{{#sub: {{{2}}} | 5 }}"--Chieftain Alex 10:34, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't know...--Relyk 10:36, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
At least its working now ^^ ----Chieftain Alex 10:50, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
It was from confusing extension syntax with built-in function syntax yet again.--Relyk 10:53, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps there is a reason you've got some empty queries occuring in the middle of your template, but I think I may have simplified it a bit. (also added a second sort order) --Chieftain Alex 12:53, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Which template and for what queries?--Relyk 12:56, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I love how it sorts by profession, then randomly lists the articles opposed to then sorting by natural order. I left canonical name off because I thought it would do so.--Relyk 13:02, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
I kept forgetting that it doesn't sort in show preview cos its a template >_> - so I added the working sort stuff, then deleted and it tried some random shit... and obviously no effect.
I didn't know what to call the lines with just |? in the skill table template. Whatever, it looks great now. --Chieftain Alex 14:51, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


Could you give me an example of where it was breaking? I really hate how the [hide] bit doesn't align with the text when divs are used instead of table formatting :/ --Chieftain Alex 20:44, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

It breaks after encountering section headers. Could change the headers to ;'s instead since section headers inside the spoiler tag is dumb anyways.--Relyk 20:47, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


How's gws? Life Guardian 08:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Enjoying it, don't play much now due to nothing to do.--Relyk 16:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
I never really put enough time into it...idk i just wasn't into gw2 as much as i was into gw1. Every time i log in i dont know what to do. Life Guardian 06:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
GRIND DAT LEGENDARY Vili 点 User talk:Vili 06:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Dungeons are fun, if you play with friends on skype and have a plan, good luck.--Relyk 07:18, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Fuck i forget most of my wiki-fu...anyways, lolfriends. My only 80 is also a ranger, which from what ive read sucks? Life Guardian 07:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Fix me[edit]

I am broken. (I've created Property:Has appearance but when I stick <gallery> either in front of the query or using |intro parameters, it does nothing) >_> Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I noted the problem on your talk lol.--Relyk 00:43, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Why you do this T__T[edit]

This broke my heart for some reason. I'm imagining you just sitting in a corner in the dark with this pouty look now on your face that just saying "All I wanted to do was help." Oh god, the wintersday feels. —Jyavoc 07:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

lol. I did the same thing with Reaper's Rumble, expecting stuff in the activity to be put there. The category never got used. I like the method I took with Costume Brawl better.--Relyk 07:54, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Wintersday drop template[edit]

Hey, I went through and edited the templates and converted all the data, but I'm finding that on the page for the Giant gift data, the last column isn't showing up. There's one guy who got an unbreakable bell, and while I've placed that information there, it's just not showing. Can you maybe help/fix it, since this seems to be something you know about? --Valicene 05:59, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I mentioned it on your talk page, there's too many entries for the item, we've only defined an arbitrary number of 16 variables for columns in the {{SDRH}}. It's the reason I haven't switched Daily/Drop Rate to the template :3--Relyk 07:03, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Ah, yeah, I just figured it out myself. I'm going to try and size some of the drop data down (I was able to do it for the large gifts) while still keeping it accurate and meaningful. Cheers.--Valicene 07:34, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
I fixed it, it's extremely fucking tedious btw--Relyk 07:36, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I'll take a look at how the templates themselves are constructed, and if it's something that's tedious but you would like to be done anyway, maybe I can do the grunt work on it. --Valicene 07:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
It's simply copypasting more variables. If you need for whatever reason 30 unique items, you do the same as I did: [1] and [2] and [3]. We're due to get some extensions that will simplify the template greatly.--Relyk 07:43, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Okay, thanks -- I'm going to let you finish changing things and then put in some more data. Appreciate your patience with this; I know how to use a wiki (obviously), but tables like that are well out of my area of expertise, so it's been a learning experience. --Valicene 07:51, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Title page[edit]

The change you made to the title page I think is for the worse. Especially seeing as Hall of Monuments section doesn't fit the "Title / Accomplishment" categories, the other thing that I dislike about it is that the list seems like it makes the page longer because the headers for each section seems to be huge. I would revert it but I do think that there is a better way to have that page. I just don't think its what you changed it to or what it was. you also removed information that was important to some of the titles. - User Zesbeer sig.png Zesbeer 11:47, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Whilst I like the clarity of the previous edit, and have minor issues with that current edit (which I will address in a sec), I feel the simplicity of Relyk's table is superior to the separate tables of before. That said, the headers in Relyk's table need to be swapped out for plain text, to avoid the massive spacing. This will be equally clear on what section is being listed, minus the pain to my eyes. - Infinite - talk 12:25, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
I have taken the liberty to edit the aforementioned. - Infinite - talk 12:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Didn't remove any information that couldn't already be found on the pages. The sections don't work on same line for some reason, it's STDT template's fault. Hall of Monuments gives titles, doesn't matter what category it's in.--Relyk 13:32, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

research suggestion[edit]

Add {{research}} to {{SDRH}} so that it automatically appears in all new drop rate pages. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:49, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I was going to do that, but notice templates typically go on the top of the page--Relyk 03:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Just put the other boilerplate text into SDRH, too. I've gone ahead and done that for you, and I edited Mad King Chest/Drop rate to match. I'm about to fall asleep at the keyboard, though, so I can't do the rest. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 05:46, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
I'm hasty to make the description boilerplate since you want to detail how to spade the drops, such as if it's a drop from an enemy or multiple items from a package. But that'll be good for the project page and link to that since the techniques won't vary.--Relyk 05:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Template:Knockback redirect target[edit]

Knockback is equivalent to Push, not Launch. Does that one skill actually use the wrong icon for knockback or something? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:47, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

No, I just forgot about the alt parameter as well as confused push and launch :/ I notice this minor issue mentioned on talk, knockback is more common to see in descriptions. Need to change a couple things in skill infobox.--Relyk 03:12, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Double node items[edit]

In regards to your change to Gold Ore (node), there's some inherent chance to get two of an item, which seems to be greater for rich veins. I haven't touched a gathering bonus banner in weeks, but I get double items per gather regularly. I suppose it's also possible that the Power of the Mists Gatherer bonus and the guild 48 hour gathering bonus are poorly worded and also contribute.

And I'm also fine with explaining more about how the drops work, but it needs to be on all of the node pages. Manifold User Manifold Neptune.jpg 01:31, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

yup but the way its listed implies each has a chance to drop. drops differ between reaource nodes. it doeant have to be on one page. redundancy is good.Relyk Christmas sig.jpg talk 01:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)
The Power of the Mists bonus is actually an extra use of a node, i.e. you have to hit F again and it consumes an additional charge of your gathering tool (or more; I've gotten up to 6 chops from a tree before and up to 4 gathers from a plant). I don't know exactly how the non-banner guild upgrade works, because our guild has never used it yet, but I've still obtained 2 separate log or ore mats from a single use (my "loot monitor" shows 4 distinct entries after 3 chops, e.g.), so that particular occurrence is not linked to the guild upgrade. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:26, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Can you please fix something you "broke"[edit]

This edit (I think) messed up the object infobox's icon parameter. I'm not really good with infobox coding, and now the infoboxes won't show the icon image for when | icon = skill challenge - and it'd be rather tedious to edit all the articles to fix it from them. I'm not really sure what your intentions were for changing this, since so many article had it set up like that and unlike NPCs, objects don't have icons except skill challenges and perhaps a few others - there won't ever be an icon named after the objects, unlike NPCs. Konig/talk 14:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

The argument passed to the icon parameter should be "skill challenge.png" because "skill challenge" is not an icon. This is the same practice for other templates. If the icon doesn't exist, we can code the default icon for "type = skill challenge" as skill challenge.png instead of PAGENAME.--Relyk ~ talk > 05:05, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Need to code it like: User:Relyk/Sandbox--Relyk ~ talk > 05:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Fix {{SDRH}} logic to address empty parameters due to the way Alex coded the checks[edit]

What's the issue? Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:17, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Try using
| Bank = 
| Stone = 
| Salvage = 
| Merchant = 
| Trader = 3 
| Box = 1 
| Repair = 2
| Mystic = 3
| No extra item = 53 
| ~~~}}
--Relyk ~ talk > 17:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Hmm ok. Reminds me of a problem I had over at gww:Template:Mission rewards, where we had to use something along the lines of the following to avoid people leaving things blank like cretins:
{{#ifeq: {{{parameter}}} | 0 |   | {{#if: {{{parameter|}}} | {{{parameter}}} displays |   }} }}
But our problem here should be under SDRL.. specifically instead of:
{{#vardefine:DRvar_1  | {{#expr: {{#var:DRvar_1|0}}  + {{{{{#var:s1}}|0}}}  }} }}
Instead of just {{{{{#var:s1}}|0}}}, It probably needs to use something like
{{ #if: {{{{{#var:s1}}|}}} | {{{{{#var:s1}}|0 <!-- parameter give but left equal to empty space -->}}} | 0 <!-- parameter not noted at all--> }}
Although I'm not sure. Perhaps if I make a sandbox version of SDRL I will test it later. Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:22, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Have fun trying to work around it! There shouldn't be a difference between omitting the parameter or leaving it empty.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:43, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
If the equal sign is empty, I've concluded its their own fault. I can't fix this. Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
Seriously. They could at least enter a 0. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:00, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
This is the world of lazy people! Don't worry though, the copypaste version includes 0s.--Relyk ~ talk > 03:44, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
The only plausible way of fixing this would be to use {{#iferror: {{#expr: {{{{{#var:s1}}}}} + 1 }} | 0 | {{{{{#var:s1}}}}} }} every time #vars1 gets used, but thats doubling the if statements and I really don't want to do that :p Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
That's not solving the problem anyways. I can't figure out the problem due to the wiki syntax or how the variable function works, and hard to debug error messages ^^--Relyk ~ talk > 09:38, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


Have a passive on cooldown with certain traits. Well, at least, thats what you posted on my page. Did you mean to put it there? I mean, huh?? Puk 03:25, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Yup, I put it on your talk page, which is for talking.--Relyk ~ talk > 03:29, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Lol, yeah I know xD But i mean whats the context, I'm not with you on that. Puk 03:31, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Things I don't like about GW2, Signet's not having a passive while on cooldown from active use. <---------------------Relyk ~ talk > 03:32, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
OMG someone read my whinging! Lol, it all becomes clear. Thanks man ^_^ Puk 03:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Systema naturae[edit]

Phylum: Animal? ...Kingdom! --ICBM 12:40, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


"this retarded table" "That kind of shit" "the ugly as shit table" I know it's not cool with you, but keep the tone less confrontational. You might think it's sugar-coating or pandering, but you can be firm without going that way. --JonTheMon 18:34, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I gave my formal response, responding to anons who write tl;drs can be filled with the shits and fucks as needed. I'm not attacking anyone, so don't be so anal.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:47, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
No, it is not okay to use language like that with anyone, regardless of their verbosity or their anonymity. It's not civil, it's not respectful. It may not be a direct attack, but most people definitely find it offensive. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
I find the most people really don't give a fuck unless they feel they are being attacked. It wasn't being uncivil or disrespectful to the anons. Filling a paragraph with shit or retarded doesn't make it confrontational or uncivil or disrespectful. You can ban me if you think people are actually being offended, I respect if you regard it as degrading the discussion or attacking people.--Relyk ~ talk > 20:07, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
It's ok, ishmael has a baby dick so he has to get off on ponies and correcting people on the laws of the internet (protip there aren't any). 03:32, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
I, too, enjoy responding to months-old topics to troll poorly. -Auron 03:58, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Event infobox help[edit]

Could you take a look at something in Template:Event infobox? Seems like an ongoing issue you were working with that hasn't gotten enough attention. Pages like The Frozen Maw and Defeat the strange foe that came through the haunted door try to list multiple areas and fail. I don't see a markup that lets you list multiple areas and there's no mention of a standard layout for it that I can see. Son of Svanir's NPC infobox does multiple locations alright, except it doesn't list zone. Perhaps leaving "area" alone and adding an extra location value like NPC box, which doesn't automatically parse the text, would work?

It looks like they used areaverbatim=y to get around it, but you've since updated the event infobox. No idea about any of that. Any suggestions? If I edit it myself I'm likely to break the wiki. Quickfix 05:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Relyk could add something along the lines of zone2, zone3, zone4. (I've not seen more than 4 zones per event) Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:44, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Alternatively, I semi-reverted both Yandere and Relyk and yet kept the new historical bit and the SMW stuff. hopefully fixed. Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:14, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I wasn't sure if Relyk had something else in mind. Also, didn't know about the comments concerning autocat being weird with it. Things look good now on the pages I checked. Quickfix 09:39, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
As soon as we get #arraymaps for SemanticMedawiki, we'll be able to list comma-separated values. We can list multiple areas, zones, levels, etc. The area parameter is for the area the event starts in, so it only needs multiple values for events like the haunted door. Meta events should only be listing the zone they're in, the starting point is the first event and the ending point is the last event.--Relyk ~ talk > 10:03, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Its definitely for all areas it occurs in, not just the first one, meta and non. Manifold User Manifold Neptune.jpg 10:42, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
The area parameter?--Relyk ~ talk > 10:45, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I think I agree with Relyk - meta events should only list the zone, not areas. The individual events that comprise the meta event take care of documenting the areas. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
So an event npc in one area that kicks off an event in a different area should only have the npc's area? Collect grub remains for Ine - is this layout with the area the event takes place being listed at the top explanation adequate? It's cool if we leave it out of the infobox, but want to make sure following that layout is explicit enough. Also, at this point many meta events list multiple locations in their box, which looks ok: Flame Legion Battles. Granted, I don't know infobox etiquette.
Hmm and while we're talking about this, what about individual area pages? Do we just list events that start there on area pages? Or events that take place in them too? It could get a bit messy, but I'm guessing the answer is to include something if it's important. Quickfix 18:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
NPCs that start events are indicated by an event star over their head. The NPCs that wave you over alert you that an event if it is active, they don't trigger the event. The location of a meta event is the portion of the zone the meta event is active, rather than a list of locations the events in the chain occur; the meta event will indicate what stage it's at. A list of areas doesn't tell you anything. The other piece of information you need is which portion of the zone, which is described on the meta event page or by visiting any of the event pages.
Normal events that span multiple areas are typically escort missions, but you won't know what stage it's at unless you get close enough of or meet the alert NPC. Listing all the areas that event crosses isn't nearly as valuable as simply asking the NPC. We will list all events on an area page as we are documenting all the events that take place in an area.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Ok, I pretty much agree. The thing that kind of throws me with the event infobox is that it's called "location". Perhaps we could have a "starts in" instead, since that's the useful thing we want to provide. Right? It'd have to be a new entry too, because renaming location would make most pages wrong. We could slowly transition to listing correct starting info, and then deal with location clutter in the infobox later. Maybe move location stuff to the actual page. Quickfix 09:02, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

New icon sets[edit]

[[File:User Chieftain Alex New weapon icons.png|thumb|right]] I don't suppose you know which groups of weapons received new icons? In order from new .dat:

  1. Red ones
  2. Purple - Destroyer
  3. Dark green/blue - Beaded
  4. Light blue ones
  5. Brown ones
  6. Light purples - the ghostly/mist weapons like Ilya
  7. Dark blue ones
  8. Blue - Mystic
  9. Light red - Priory's Historical

I could do with a hand identifying which weapons are which. Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:47, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Wow you even sorted them to take a screenshot--Relyk ~ talk > 16:58, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Its so much easier if I sort the icons into groups - usually the .dat has them plastered about all over the place. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:03, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
I had to leave before pointing out dark blue looked like Foefire weapons because of the sword :P--Relyk ~ talk > 18:39, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
Zzz I figured it out from the lovely dpl galleries in the end. Only a few lone icons unknown / almost good enough.
  • 534297.png
  • 534296.png
  • 534301.png
  • 534307.png
  • 534308.png
  • 534309.png
  • 534310.png
^ unknown. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:17, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Attack (attribute) rewrite[edit]

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say with this rewrite. I read it as implying that the attack stat is used in calculating damage from utility and elite skills but not from weapon skills, which is not something I'd ever heard before—is that what you intended, and if so, what is your basis for this conclusion? It also says both that weapon skills' damage is based on the product of weapon damage and power, and also that their damage varies only with power; those two statements seem contradictory to me. --Felbryn 22:40, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

weapon skill damage varies with power, skill damage in general varies with weapon damage and power.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:03, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
That is so vague that I can't even tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with the damage article. And you still haven't answered my question about how you know. --Felbryn 23:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Meh, looks like I was wrong, utility just scales with power.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
I think your first comment was simply backwards - all skill damage scales with power, while weapon skill damage also scales with weapon strength. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Nah, I thought weapon strength affected utility skills. The damage page doesn't provide much clarity on that point.-Relyk ~ talk > 23:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Philosopher's Stone and Infusions[edit]

The other Infusion pages list 50 Philosopher's Stone which would be in relation to the old 1 Eldritch Scroll and 2 Eldritch Scrolls for the Versatile Version. Because the Versatile Versions were changed to 100 Philosopher's Stones. So what is correct? - Yandere Talk to me... 07:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Why are you asking me? I don't think I messed with those pages.--Relyk ~ talk > 07:51, 6 February 2013 (UTC)


It's not really a big deal, but please try to avoid profanity in edit summaries. Felix Omni Signature.png 16:47, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Shut the fuck up ginger. 03:34, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Because the shit hits the fan if I post on the right wiki.[edit]

I had this filter active for a bit - it was super effective in stopping ragey as shit proxy users. :P -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:07, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Has game id[edit]

Game ids overlap between different types of things. First one I could find (because GW2DB doesn't let you search/index by ids): Brutal Shot (skill id 526) vs. Protect Redreave Mill from Separatists (location/task id 526).

Do you think we'd be okay storing all ids in a single property (and differentiating types by disjunction with a second property/category) or should we make a distinct property per type? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

For performance reasons, I rather want to have separate properties instead of having to join over two to find out the article for an id etc. Also note that some articles will have two ids in different categories (items can have a recipe for example). poke | talk 22:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
That's how I'm leaning, too. I just saw Relyk had made this with a generic property and wanted to understand his thoughts on it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
We will only use the id property to lookup the page with that id. The performance difference would be trivial, although it would still be there because you have the property limited to the category subset you want. The id is unique to the page as it gets set in the infobox. By design, there isn't a situation where you would set multiple id properties on the same page (i.e. infoboxes will only assign one id property). There is no real difference between the two, except it's slightly more wordy with a generic property. We can go either way, but distinct properties will be slightly easier to use.
The only problem with distinct ids is that you need to know if it's an item id, event id, etc. This is the only time you would use a generic id in a query. I get to bring up Subproperty of again, where we can set all id properties to be subproperties of Has game id. That will allow us to query if a id matches any id on the wiki, I think.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Multi-item pages (runes/sigils/potions/etc.) will be getting multiple ids per page, unless someone gets around to splitting them soon (I would, but my map project will probably consume all my time for at least another month). The item vs recipe ids that Poke mentioned isn't directly an issue with the same "page", because the recipe will be a subobject (which SMW treats as another page).
Using subproperty semantics would indeed be logical here, but I can't really think of a situation where that would be used. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:23, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
“The id is unique to the page as it gets set in the infobox” – Unfortunately, it is not unique. Weapons and armor are the best example. There is a unqie id for every item combination that exists as it is (i.e. an unmodified drop). For example, I have 30 different ids for Acolyte Coat, all with a different level requirement and defense value. While we would probably only use one id when outputting a chat link (per GW2WT:CP), when decoding a chat link all those are required so we can get the article regardless of which item was specified. So yes, we will have to define multiple ids per page.
Regarding the subproperty thing, I don’t really understand how that works, or why an id would semantically be a subproperty of a game icon. poke | talk 06:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
We want to assign multiple ids to a single id property, so querying for the id would lead to the page. That's not the same as grabbing multiple pages that have the same id. I don't know how we'll handle weapons and equipment exactly. And I meant Has game id...--Relyk ~ talk > 06:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
Assigning properties as subproperties of a "master" property means that you can query all the subproperties at once by querying the master property, but you can still query the individual subproperties. Essentially, it's a way to symbolize a categorical hierarchy within SMW. The common example is familial relations: Has son and Has daughter would be subproperties of Has child, where the subproperties include the distinction of gender.
One application that was discussed but hasn't been implemented yet is for rune bonuses: Has rune bonus 1...Has rune bonus 6 would be subproperties of Has rune bonus, which would allow us to query all rune bonuses to find runes that e.g. interact with Might, while the distinction between the subproperties would allow us to list the bonuses in order. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)


I'd really rather not. At least not until a week away (phone interview, design projects, coursework... >.>) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:46, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

and actually if the runes are anything like Sigil of Air, there will be a tonne of redirects pointing to the wrong one :/ (where would we point the main sigil page (e.g. would Sigil of Air become a disambiguation?) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
We are keeping the main rune pages. They will describe the "rune/sigil group", list all three rooms, and any notes common to all the runes. Better than a dismabiguation pages. If they don't provide the specific name for the rune, it makes sense to redirect there anyways.--Relyk ~ talk > 10:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Let me get this right every Rune and Sigil finally gets a single page with one infofox? Yeah!
By the way do we keep the infoboxes on the group pages or do we rewrite them a bit so that we have a simple list? - Yandere Talk to me... 10:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
The rune/sigil tables will be generated semantically the way they are listed on the rune page or similar, as soon as we get the SMW update. They can be done by hand before that. It's impossible to do with DPL even if you wanted to since the same template is used for each variable in rune stats. At least that's my plan. Someone probably won't like it...--Relyk ~ talk > 10:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Oh I love it. An idea I had a while back is get get the information from the "variables" variable and display them on the piece equipment that had this specific upgrade, but it didn'T really work because dpl gets confused with diffrent infoboxes on one page. But now this should be a rather easy dpl call. What do you think? - Yandere Talk to me... 11:00, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
User:Relyk/rune has all the code written out now, for the lulz.--Relyk ~ talk > 13:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Ok I've got some time tonight so i could start the sigil pages - what are we placing on the generic page, e.g. Sigil of Accuracy. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:57, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Leave the general pages alone for now, otherwise it will make people angry.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Do sigils all have the same binding? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:25, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
I think so, sigils are only crafted or salvaged. People will fix it if they didn't already add it.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:30, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Done. what a waste of time <3 -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:29, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Added it to my news about 30 seconds after this lol.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:32, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

New users and CP[edit]

So, if you were a new user, how would you expect to find out about the CP talk? If you can't easily find it, where should we mention it to get new users there quicker? --JonTheMon 14:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I added chat code redirect earlier to help with this issue, as it's been constant. I added a couple more redirects.
This is an elegant solution though: Added id parameter to {{default item parameter}} and gave it Number type, people can add the numeric id. If they add chat code instead of an id, it'll bring up a SMW flag that leaves a helpful message. It will be on all item pages. The text can be removed but we will be using the id parameter and property either way. It's easy to modify or remove if needed.--Relyk ~ talk > 15:47, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
How does that help a new user get to the relevant discussions? --JonTheMon 16:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
It links to chat link format.--Relyk ~ talk > 18:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
(ec) Hell, how do we get experienced users to the relevant discussions? I didn't know about Talk:Chat link format... pling User Pling sig.png 18:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

RE: Table include[edit]

You posted a chunk of code on my User_talk:Rohar/Chat_codes page, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what you are suggesting. I'm noob at this. -- User Rohar icon.jpg Rohar (talk|contribs) 06:20, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Disregard, others helped ;) And it was obvious, once I was sober this morning. Cheers! -- User Rohar icon.jpg Rohar (talk|contribs) 19:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Defense vs Armor[edit]

You've now twice edited Defense (attribute) to say that the defense attribute is derived from the armor attribute, which I'm pretty sure is incorrect. My understanding is that:

  • Defense is the sum of the defenses listed on your equipped armor (items)
  • Armor (attribute) = Defense + Toughness

Is that wrong? And if not, why do you keep saying that defense is derived from the armor attribute instead of the other way around? --Felbryn 02:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Your total defense can be derived by summing individual defense values or using the Armor and Toughness attributes. Phrase it however you want, because I obviously can't.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


New vandals go at the top :) pling User Pling sig.png 23:31, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

That completely threw me off.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:33, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Off hand Notes[edit]

The notes you replaced is not about Dual Wield. It is about the anomaly that even if you are not dual wielding in one weapon set, but have an off-hand weapon in another set, the set without an off-hand will receive the off-hand weapon skills. In the case of the thief profession, it changes the Skill 3 even if you only have a main hand weapon in one set. I have consulted Dr. Ish about this that is why the information resides in the off-hand, rather than in Dual Wield. Please revert back. Thank you. --Sir Vincent III 20:16, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Y'know, this actually applies to both main- and off-hand weapon slots - you can do the same thing with 1 mainhand weapon and 2 offhand weapons. I didn't think about that before, but now that I have, the best place for it would really be on Weapon swap. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 21:03, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
This is really wierd. Never knew that either since I always have a main hand weapon. I'll re-think the notation and add it in the weapon swap. Thanks. --Sir Vincent III 21:08, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that's a functionality of weapon sets and swapping between them. You can be quite clever with dual wield skills because of it.--Relyk ~ talk > 21:35, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
lol yeah, and clever in spending also, like saving currency by purchasing one pistol or dagger instead of two. --Sir Vincent III 21:52, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


wtf? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Dear Rylek[edit]

Dear Rylek, I am just wondering why you reverted my edit on the Ghost Eater page. I believe that the information I put there was both factual and helpful. I am sure you had a good reason because you are very active in the wiki community. Is it because we are not putting strategy on boss pages but on dungeon pages instead (I don't know if that is a rule, it is just my best guess)? If you could just enlighten me/ point me in the right direction that would be great. I would like to edit the wiki more in the future, so this would be helpful. Thank you. 23:48, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, always put information on the relevant page. That's where people should go to find information. It's the same for putting a walkthrough on Defeat the shadow behemoth instead of Shadow Behemoth. That way we keep information related to the NPC on the NPC page and information related to the dungeon on the dungeon page. I was going to copypaste what you wrote if The Ghost Eater wasn't already updated on AC explorable.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:57, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, thank you very much. That makes a lot of sense. 00:02, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Help with a page[edit]

On my edit of the page Category:Critters, I was trying to make a Title? page for that category. I didn't do it right and you fixed my mistake, but I still think there should be a page to link "Critter" to other than the redirect to NPC rank. Something similar to Statue was what I had in mind but no clue how to make it work. Any ideas? Yoe Dude 23:42, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Critter is a rank, not a type or race of NPC. Indiscriminate Slayer also refers to the NPC rank. The problem is that consensus on the NPC infobox hasn't been for whether to display the family/affiliation or the lore-related race. The race of an Eagle is a Bird or Eagle, while the family/affiliation is Critter. The Critter family is just a catch-all for all critter creatures unlike other families, as far as slayer-related.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:53, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
I guess I'm just confused, some POI pages like Wizard's Fief list critter as a type of foe. I guess I just wanted that link to go somewhere's beside the redirect. Sounds like this needs some discussion as you mentioned above. Thanks for the speedy reply, I'll just ignore this for a while =) Yoe Dude 00:04, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
That's because they are listing it wrong, but the template doesn't do checking on race. The race of an NPC is subjective, rather than a part of any game mechanic. Except for Risen since they are all Risen rather than their original race.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)


^ Using that above the Daily table would be misleading as there is no guarantee that its been updated + people will no doubt flame us because of it. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:34, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Why is why I subbed it, I thought subst: output the raw for magic words though.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:40, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
{{subst:User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox4}}
Monday, 04 March 2013
-Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:35, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

re: Restorative Illusions table[edit]

You commented on the Restorative Illusions discussion, and I wasn't entirely sure I understood. Did you mean something like this? I know the current version looks messy, but I'm not sure this one looks much better. Any suggestions?

Incomplete Article names using DPL[edit]


For an example, check out Toy. A few of the items listed, like Pirate Sword and Frying Pan, are not going to the correct toy articles because, I think, the article names have parentheses in them. I am not familiar with the DPL set up and the interaction with the template. Please address this issue if you can. I feel it is best to revert back to a non-dpl list in the interest of the reader if this issue cannot be corrected. --Chaba 19:07, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

The dpl wasn't coded completely how it should. The dpl was pulling the name parameter from the template and listing that. It should've been coded to link to the toy article and then display the name as the alternative text so you don't see the (toy) suffix.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for your prompt attention! It would've taken me much longer reading the extension's talk page to figure out a solution. --Chaba 19:16, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
| category=Toys
| uses = Template:Item infobox
| include = {Item infobox}:%PAGE%, {Item infobox}:name
| secseparators  = *[[,,¦,]]\n
| format = ,,,
| ordermethod=sortkey

This is it coded correctly. But there is no reason to hide the suffix in a list in the first place.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:37, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Double Strike attack rate[edit]

I believe the time it takes to complete a sequence of the auto-attack is of interest. With it you can compare the damage per second between weapons. Chad 17:10, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

You can't compare anything meaningfully. Damage per second is based on your build and strategy, not the interval of the autoattack for one weapon.--Relyk ~ talk > 17:30, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Screwy variables[edit]

Any idea why the current content at User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox doesn't work? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:19, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

{{User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox|Heritage armor}} needs to produce the correct images first lol. Why are you being lazy and not using templates?
{{Armor gallery|{{{1}}}}}
{{#vardefine:armor| {{#replace: {{{1|{{PAGENAME}}}}} | armor |}} }}
{{Armor gallery header}}
{{Armor gallery row|{{{1}}}|asura}}
{{Armor gallery row|{{{1}}}|charr}}
{{Armor gallery row|{{{1}}}|human}}
{{Armor gallery row|{{{1}}}|norn}}
{{Armor gallery row|{{{1}}}|sylvari}}
{{Armor gallery footer}}
|- class="{{{2}}}"
! rowspan=2 | {{ucfirst:{{{2}}}}}
! Female
| [[File:{{{1}}} light armor ({{{2}}} male).jpg|100px]]
| [[File:{{{1}}} medium armor ({{{2}}} male).jpg|100px]]
| [[File:{{{1}}} heavy armor ({{{2}}} male).jpg|100px]]
|- class="{{{2}}}"
! rowspan=2 | {{ucfirst:{{{2}}}}}
! Female
| [[File:{{{1}}} light armor ({{{2}}} female).jpg|100px]]
| [[File:{{{1}}} medium armor ({{{2}}} female).jpg|100px]]
| [[File:{{{1}}} heavy armor ({{{2}}} female).jpg|100px]]
Special case for charr, which I don't really like as it makes the template inflexible
{{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|charr |
{{!}}|- class="{{{2}}}"
! rowspan=2 | {{ucfirst:{{{2}}}}}
! Both
{{!}} [[File:{{{1}}} light armor ({{{2}}}).jpg|100px]]
{{!}} [[File:{{{1}}} medium armor ({{{2}}}).jpg|100px]]
{{!}} [[File:{{{1}}} heavy armor ({{{2}}}).jpg|100px]]
--Relyk ~ talk > 20:06, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, the entire point of using the variables throughout was so that the template could adapt to the name-formatting that seems so random for so many pages. Clearly it processes all identical parameters starting from when they're first called.. e.g. it processes {{{1}}} as equal to the first image string, and then assumes its the same for the rest of them -_- -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:28, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
blegh, I would never do that with a template, that's just scary code. If you want to use a template, you have to designate a format for the image file names. I'm under the assumption this is something you want to implement rather than just get working, so sorry if it's otherwise :P--Relyk ~ talk > 23:47, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
e.g. if pling changes the image format hes using ;) Oh well, if it can't be done then forget it! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:59, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Not saying it can't be done, just that it's not a worthy venture in any respect.--Relyk ~ talk > 00:12, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

renown heart rewards[edit]

Why don't we create lookup tables for them (like the ones in Template:Event rewards) and perform that lookup within the infobox template, so they can display in the infobox? It's just 1 data point per currency (xp/karma/coin), so it doesn't need a table of its own like event rewards do. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:35, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I want to eventually stick it in the infobox, but I'm going with this so I can produce something with the lookup table. Waiting on any problems before making further changes to the infobox.--Relyk ~ talk > 22:49, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Well screw it.--Relyk ~ talk > 01:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

{{Default item parameter}}[edit]

Your edit doesn't seem to have worked as intended. Plush Charr Backpack Cover is displaying "unknown" when set to no. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 12:31, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The no value can go diaf--Relyk ~ talk > 12:39, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Fixed, you had an extra squiggle. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:48, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Critter Page[edit]

Hey thanks again for making that page, I just had one thing to ask. It's just me but I think that the "image" used on a "main subject page" should be the best example of something in that category. I really like your comment on the crabs, but I wanted to ask you if you would mind if I uploaded a better picture of the NPC crab for use on it's page and the critter page. Yoe Dude 20:19, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Is my crab not cute enough for you? I spent hours lining up that perfect picture of adorable.--Relyk ~ talk > 20:29, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up on the page change. But about your crab, it's not that it's not cute, it's just the image is so small. I just thought a bigger, clearer image would be better on the main page for critters. But totally my opinion. I don't upload images just because I think mine is better, that's why I took the time to ask in this case. If it just was the crab page I wouldn't have said anything, I just think an image on a category title page should be the best possible example image.Yoe Dude 21:08, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
All the critter images are going to be that small, if you can get the shitty camera placed correctly for a level and close image, don't need my permission to fix my crappy yet absolutely cute image.--Relyk ~ talk > 21:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Flame and Frost move to narrative page?[edit]

Hey, what are your thoughts on moving the Timeline and some of that info for the Flame and Frost releases from the game release pages to the Flame and Frost narrative page? Currently that page is just sitting there linking back to the game release pages, so it's not especially useful. I was going to bring up the discussion on the relevant pages but I wanted to check and see if my brain was on right first. I know we pretty much left the Lost Shores narrative info on the game release pages (and specific NPC pages also), so there's already a precedent there for having it there, but that just leaves the actual narrative pages sitting there useless. Vahkris 13:16, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

The timeline is still relevant to the individual game releases. We can use dpl to pull the timeline section and display it on the narrative page.--Relyk ~ talk > 15:44, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:Event result format[edit]

Hi, I think you are the one who wrote this {{event|<event name>}} piece of wonder and beauty. One problem, it deals poorly with "Various" or whatever when dealing with the Stop the skritt burglar before it escapes with the treasure event. And the event's infobox has an error too. Not sure if the list is repeating the infobox error or what. I have no idea who deals with such stuff. Could you have a look at it please or point whoever does at this problem. Thanks. Claret 00:22, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

This is a problem for any event that occurs in multiple areas, which is also a problem for the infobox itself. If an event has multiple values for level (i.e. varies), that means the event occurs in multiple areas. If all these events take place in the same zone, the location will be set to the zone rather than an area. For displaying the level for such events, we can address it in multiple ways like displaying varies, a comma-separated list, overriding the default level, displaying the level range of the zone, or simply omitting the level. We should actually omit the levels because there is really no point in displaying event level(s) unless the event only occurs in one location. But how we represent these events is up for discussion.
Stop the skritt burglar before it escapes with the treasure is a special case in that it takes place across multiple zones and even regions. We can't display a level for it with the template, so we can omit it. Omitting the level implies that it varies based on the area and we simply provide a link to the event itself. Fortunately, all events that occur in multiple areas are special events and/or a part of a game release. Normal events adhere to the single area/single level rule. We also have to decide if we want the event template to bother taking care of such cases and have people use wiki links instead.
tl;dr If the event doesn't have a single value for level, thus a single area it starts in, we can omit displaying the level altogether.--Relyk ~ talk > 01:51, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I can see that, unfortunately the listing template gives "()" as the level which may well be counter intuitive to a new user. Claret 02:08, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
That was assuming events were unique, so the template was being rude. It's an easy case to address.--Relyk ~ talk > 02:15, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Claret 02:49, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
Very soon now (by the end of the month), we will have everything in place to fix this using the almighty #arraymap parser function. And finally complaints like this will be a thing of the past! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:54, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
I would go as far as list the individual areas instead of the levels. That would be a better approach for these specific events that occur in more than one area or zone.--Relyk ~ talk > 04:00, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Vendors with level sensitive inventory[edit]

Hi, I mentioned it elsewhere some time ago but I see you're working on a new template for vendors, or a variation. I found, or I think I found, vendors who sell, as an example, collecting tools depending on the character that is interacting with them's level. I certainly did not research this to any extent but I think you should be aware of it if you are revamping the templates, Claret 23:07, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

That code isn't related to standard merchants. They are handled on {{inventory}}. afaik they offer gathering tools based on level up to the a given level.--Relyk ~ talk > 23:52, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah OK, but I HAVE found level character level related vendors, honest. Claret 23:55, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Here's an example, Ravis the Eager is shown having a level 1 inventory, if I approach him with a level 25, he offers a level 3 inventory. Who's interested in such matters? Claret 10:39, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter. We would list level 1 inventory anyways because that's appropriate for the level of the area.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:17, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmm OK, if you say so. It's just that some things are nit picked to death and it's alright to leave this. No problem personally but… Anyway, I am tracking those I find and if anyone's interested then I will have some to start. Claret 19:21, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that's the case for any standard merchant.--Relyk ~ talk > 19:24, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
No, it isn't, at least at the lower end of the spectrum. Many/most sell a set inventory whatever level the character is, SOME have the variable inventory. It's just because I poke around lower levels with mid level characters that I found this. Anyways, no big deal. Claret 19:27, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Nope, but we can note it on the merchant page :P--Relyk ~ talk > 19:35, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Will do, thanks for your help. Claret 19:37, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Uncatchable caltrops radius[edit]

Hi. In circular AoE effects that are centered on the caster, one should not speak of a "range", but a radius of the effect. "Range" implies a ranged skill or the ability to put the AoE effect anywhere you want within a certain distance, or "range". The Caltrops skill uses "Radius" on its tooltip. Any similar skill (circular, centered on the caster) using the word Range is simply an error/bug. Some rectangular traps centered on the caster (like Needle Trap) do use the word Range to describe the length of the rectangle. I would have preferred another word, like "span" or "width" perhaps, reserving the word Range for ranged attacks only, but that's a different story.

After further testing, I agree with you that the radius of the dodge caltrops from the Uncatchable trait is bigger than 80 as I first wrote. I'd say it's 100. Here's how I tested (I recommend you try it): While standing still on as flat a surface as I could find, I placed the camera vertically above, then hit the Caltrops skill + dodged. Two concentric circles appeared. I quickly ran back forward to place the camera above the centre of the circles. The radius of the large circle is roughly 2.5 times that of the small circle. Knowing that the big circle has a radius of 240 (what the tooltip of Caltrops says), the radius of the small circle has to be around 100. Tested both in PvE and PvP (just in case there might be a difference). --Alad 05:28, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I didn't look at it closely, thanks for checking. Range was the wrong word to use, although it means the same thing for PBAoE skills.--Relyk ~ talk > 05:35, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
No it doesn't - range is the max distance at which you can target a skill. It's PBAoE, ergo range is 0. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 05:46, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
PbAoE aren't targeted, so I'd rather say they don't have a range than that the range is 0.--Relyk ~ talk > 05:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)