Template talk:Effects nav

If its any consolation, I agree with Sparky's revert. (Xu Davella 02:37, 21 September 2010 (UTC))

As do I. It's still not conclusive. Manifold 02:42, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm thinking that we should have an official source stating what daze is. Player reports aren't bad, but they are much less finalized than ArenaNet sources. --Riddle 00:29, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Malchior got that from an anet dev... Shadowed Ritualist 00:40, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Okay, can you link it?

EDIT: I mean, it needs to be first-hand. We need ArenaNet explicitly saying "yes, it has been confirmed" --Riddle 00:41, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

No, because the guy that said that doesn't want people bugging him, so we're not supposed to be told who it is. But they did explicitly state that. Shadowed Ritualist 01:03, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

We do not document leaks or unofficial sources. That source must be disregarded. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 01:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

How is that an unofficial source? A good deal of information came from people "claiming" it to be in the demo, when there is/was no videos and screenshots. It's words that people pass on from playing/viewing the demos. In this case, the "source" claims to be an employee of anet, I don't see how this is any less official then that word of mouth. Venom20 04:24, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Wait, are we discussing the fact that it may or may not be a condition? or that it may or may not be removable? Venom20 04:29, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

We can't verify an ArenaNet employee refusing to publish this information and refusing to reveal his/her identity. --Riddle 04:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

So this squabble is over a source and not over the information presented then? I say throw it up. Worst case is that it's proven wrong and it needs to be taken down. According to the mysterious source, the animation will be included at comicon NYC, so you'll have the answer by then. Venom20 04:34, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Also, you might want to edit Daze, as it still says that it's a condition. You cannot remove it one place and leave it up on another, that's just sloppy editing. Venom20 04:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

At this point, we can leave it be until we get the proper answer. I will, however, edit Daze for consistency's sake (if someone hasn't beaten me to it.) --Riddle 04:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Though I have no problems documenting it as true, I also have no quarrels waiting for an official word. The only thing that is preventing me from believing that this is a condition was the quote from EricFlannum : "The conditions currently in the game are: bleeding, blindness, burning, cripple, freeze, immobilize, poison, vulnerability, and weakness." here. Granted the interview was from a while ago and more things could have been implemented. Venom20 04:43, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Considering the conditions have been changed as of that point, it no longer holds validity. Simply said, this shouldn't be in effects, because it has a very good chance of being a condition, so it is not NOT a condition. It may be better to say unknown or unconfirmed or something. (Meant unconfirmed as to it being a condition). Shadowed Ritualist 19:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know, I put Dazed in "Other" due to its ambiguity, there is no real reason to make a whole new section for it. :\ –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 03:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree, keeping it in other for the time being should be sufficient. Venom20 03:58, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

What those two said. A F K When Needed 14:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I was going to complain about why Daze is in unknown instead of other (since they're both essentially meaning the same thing) but then I realize that the unknown category is there in limbo...probably didn't need to waste my time pointing that out....*breathe* (Xu Davella 17:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC))

Template colour

While I have nothing against the colour at all, what I dislike is that it shares colours with some unrelated navs. Sharing colours between navs occurs on this wiki a couple times but they navs are somewhat related (see City nav and Locations nav or Professions nav and Playable races nav). Presently the effects nave shares the colour (#CCDDEE)with the playable races nav and the professions nav. It could be just me, but I'd like to change it. Haven't got a clue to what though. Don't want to run out of colour selections before all the professions are released. Venom20 17:12, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Conditions are displayed with a brown arrow in GW1; maybe a lighter shade of such brown? - Infinite - talk 17:26, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Infinite, brown would be nice. - Lucian Shadowborn 20:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

1 Colour selected arbitrarily

2 Colour selected arbitrarily

3 Colour selected from GW1 bleeding image

4 Colour selected arbitrarily

5 Colour selected from closer to the border of a GW1 condition icon

6 Colour selected from closer to the center of a GW1 condition icon

While I prefer some shade of red, I was finding it difficult to find a nice one. Some of the above colours were selected directly from images while others were arbitrary. Venom20 13:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Split?

Perhaps it would be best if we split this into a "Boon nav" and a "condition nav." Aqua (T|C) 21:24, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I say keep it how it is. It seems unnecessary to split it. Where would we put the "Other" section if these weren't together? Eive 21:36, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

This is fine as is; not too big, not to small. Perhaps small icons if the future holds them. :> - Infinite - talk 21:44, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Aegis, Rejuvenation and Smiting

These have the same icons as the related virtues. Their description readable from 3:00, while their icons are clearly visible from 6:14 in this video, if someone want to upload the icons instead of using the skill icons. 87.97.6.126 12:12, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Effects using skill icons

While Aegis, Rejuvenation and Smiting are somewhat unique, having only a single known source (AFAIK), all Stealth skills I've seen so far give you a boon with their own icon, while invisibility (from Camouflage, missing in the list and an entirely different problem) doesn't have an effect icon at all. For consistency's sake I don't think any of those should have an icon. --zeeZ 20:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Alignment Problem

I don't know how it looks like in your browers, but it's definitely not right in mine. Glastium | talk 11:16, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Pictures

I don't think adding pictures of the effects is good when we can just add them to the page...looks pretty bad to me and yeah :/--Icyyy Blue 11:53, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah it's making the effects template look unnecessarily bulky. --Xu Davella 09:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I would only include the icons if the content of the nav is made into a table format. Like this it's just messy. - Infinite - talk 13:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just a thought I had. Others could get a row of icons as well, but I wouldn't suggest it until they are consistent in availability. Venom20 14:13, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

What about any of these set-ups (there's 1 per type of effect, but the idea is that 1 style is picked and the entire nav will be in that style)? Note that Blackout is using a place-holder icon for fomatting (something that we can do without in the first set-up, as seen in boons).

The set-up seen for Boons is the most elaborate but also the most aligned, whilst allowing icons to be used viably. - Infinite - talk 15:04, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Love the current lengthy one. Compatible for all browers and languages. Glastium | talk 11:17, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Though I love the current design, but as others effect grow, will it be eventually to lengthy? Glastium | talk 14:31, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Classification

Can we figure out what exactly should classify as a effect? Seems like at the moment this nav is just a catchall for every mechanic in the game. We've got boons, conditions, movement, forced movement, stuff like quickness, frosty armour and stealth that I don't even know what to call (I thought we weren't having enchantments and hexes in this game!).

My first thought is that effects should be limited to things that show up in your effects monitor, but I don't really know how practical that is as it could again lead to a whole bunch of stuff getting sucked in. That leads to my second thought, which is that "effects" is way too broad a term to track this stuff. I think we should track boons and conditions in one place (or separately), and find other ways to classify the rest.

Control might be a good place for stun/daze and forced movement. I'm just not sure about all the boons that aren't really boons.

Am I barking up the wrong tree here? Eerie Moss 13:15, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

All the boons here are boons in game as well, so I don't really get what that part is about. I agree that reorganizing should take place, and I like the idea of control category. Also, a little offtopic, but I don't get why smithing has this icon. Alfa-R 19:03, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

By not-really-boons I mean stuff like quickness and frosty armour (assuming that shows up in effects). They're buffs but they're not classified as boons in game. Eerie Moss 19:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Proposal. I'm more looking for input than trying to dictate what I think should be in there, so feel free to edit if you think there's stuff that should really be included. I just think we need to give careful thought to how things are categorised so we can keep the wiki tidy and ordered. Eerie Moss 21:27, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

I think misc effects should still be present. There is a group of effects that can be called buffs: quickness, frosty armor, stability, frenzy, invisibility, invulnerability, stealth, rejuvenation and smiting. Also, why do we have virtue icons for the latter two? They have no icons accociate with them in game afaik. Alfa-R 10:39, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Rejuvenation and smiting come from the guardian virtues and don't have their own icons. In fact, in the press beta, neither does aegis, so not sure what direction they're going there. I'll put the other effects back in, but we'll have to figure out at some point whether they should be tangoed or just use in-game icons. They may not be as clean and consistent as boons and conditions, so it might not be very pretty unless we lose the icons in the nav.

How do you feel about the separation of control in the example? Eerie Moss 11:16, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

I like it. This category actually has an effect feeling in it, that is changing how an opponent can behave for a period of time, while things like teleport and shadow step are mechanics that are just a kind of movement imo (they are also instant, not continuous as other effects). Aegis (boon) has a shield icon which is presented here. All other effects i'd leave iconless for now as they will hopefully get icons that look more in line with the current ones. Alfa-R 11:55, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I'm going to slot it in. Easily reverted and might spark more discussion once it gets more exposure. Thanks. Eerie Moss 12:03, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Power of the Mists

Should we not just write out power of the mists? On normal webpages the layout is lightly botched anyways. --David 11:28, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Fixing the nav

I removed plenty of stuff from the effects nav. I believe that it is rather pointless to list effects produced by single or just a couple of skills (like Frenzy, Ice block, etc.). These effects are much better listed in Effect#List of miscellaneous effects, which doesn't yet exist, however. I also removed Power of the Mists and sorted out the boons to same grid as the rest of the table. Finally, I put Evade in, because it is a very common effect produced by not only Distortion (which used to exist in the nav) but also every other skill which makes a character retreat, leap or just avoid attacks like Distortion. I gave it the icon of Invulnerability because during the time of evade you are immune to incoming attacks. Finally, I took Dwayna's Lament down because it is not a condition, or if it is, it is not a common condition applied by normal means and thus has no place in effects nav for most common effects. Mediggo 11:52, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

I like the super sexy changes, except for the reorganisation of the boons. I thing the 3x3 layout is much better to read. But anyway kudos! I like it very much. - Yandere 12:02, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

That can be easily changed. Personally, I like the space between boons and conditions as well as the unified look of the grid, but I also agree that 3x3 is a much better read if looking only at boons. I figured that it wouldn't be too bad to let folks see how the table looks to them with that kind of layout, now that the control and other effects row is cleaned up a bit. Mediggo 12:33, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Boss Effects

Hello, I'm not sure where to discuss this, but with the increasing addition of boss effects like Hardened Scales and Armored, shouldn't we make a "Boss effect" navbox or add this section to the current Effect Navbox? --Fowk (talk) 23:17, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

See the {{effect infobox}}, we can use charges to describe them. And the these monster-specific effects aren't meant for the nav, otherwise you have a list instead of a nav,--Relyk ~ talk < 04:11, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

What about Watery Grave? --Fowk (talk) 06:15, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it stacks, just doesn't have a duration.--Relyk ~ talk < 07:31, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Not sure I made myself clear, but I was questioning if making something like the navbox below (which is just an example) wouldn't be nice. Looking on the 32x32 ui textures you can see there are some new of those purple icon, probably they are already implemented in the game, we just need to find where. ;P --Fowk (talk) 17:58, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Boss/Special Effects

Inflicted to players	Watery Grave
Self buffs	Hardened Scales	Armored

I don't think a navbox would be particularly useful. Just categorize them. —Dr Ishmael 18:30, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok, and how am i to do that? --Fowk (talk) 18:40, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Probably add a boss type for effects related to bosses. That's rather generic since boss can refer to multiple things. I think it will work for now.--Relyk ~ talk < 18:51, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Hum, checking the effects, there are similar effects that aren't inflicted by a Boss, like the karka hachling's one and the Champion Spider eggs that spawns at the melandru event. I believe a good description would be something like:
"Effects in this category requires the player to do an action( Hardened Scales) or wait for the duration to end ( Karka Face Grab) and can't be removed by usual skills."
but I dont know how to name it --Fowk (talk) 20:08, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

That's probably as ambiguous as you can make :P--Relyk ~ talk < 20:55, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Why not just call them "Unique NPC Effects"? -Somohexual (talk) 22:11, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

because then you have a list of effects.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:02, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Isnt that the point? :P If you only want boss effects then just make it "World Boss Effects" -Somohexual (talk) 23:44, 4 October 2013 (UTC)