Template talk:Skill infobox/Archive 3

From Guild Wars 2 Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Effects

I'm pretty sure it was already discussed — is there any plan to already implement the effects of a skill ? Currently, some have put the effects in the descriptions, some in a note outside of the infobox… It lacks a bit of consistency. Some skill pages have a table that show when each tier of the skill is available — considering the tiers also modify the effects, this table could be implemented in this template, with the level and a list of effect for each tier. Thoughts ? -Alarielle- 13:47, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I would raise the idea from the dust and say that infobox could really use the "effect" info. For example: [ Effect: Bleeding.png Bleeding ] This would be a lot better than reading the description "Bleed your foe" Wapakalypse 17:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Any way of implementing that would make the infobox redundant with the skill description, which I guess isn't horrible, but if we can avoid, I would prefer that. That and not all skills have effects. Aqua (T|C) 23:06, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Skill point cost

Now that we're learning skill point costs for utility skills, I think that this infobox would be a better place to put it, rather than in the notes section for each individual skill. Thoughts? 71.226.51.118 11:52, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to this. --JonTheMon 16:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Isn't that the skill-point item at the bottom of the infobox? Vahkris 16:23, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh, there it is. Didn't notice lol --JonTheMon 16:26, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Combo Initiator and Finisher type

Given that we have the press beta skill videos and the types are listed in each skill Tooltip, I think it would be good to include in the info box items for Initiator Type and Finisher Type, seeing as they are set types. Any thoughts? Vahkris 16:06, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

This sounds logical, but would we want to make it a simple Initiator/Finisher or make it a bit more flexible if they decide to make it more complex? --JonTheMon 16:09, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
If you or anyone knows a more flexible way, perhaps that would work. All I'm really looking for is something in the info box to show if a skill is an initiator or finisher, and what type of initiator field (ice, poison, dark, etc) or finisher (Whirl, Leap, Physical Projectile, etc). Vahkris 16:21, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Do we know what all types there are? --JonTheMon 16:46, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Suggesting a new template

I would like to suggest a new format for this template. IMO, the currently one could be changed to be aesthetically more pleasant, and the current placement of the profession icon feels somewhat lacking. We have also seen, in-game, that some skills have an activation time (with the orange brush-like stroke charging), which we will likely document eventually. I would like to suggest changing the current format for the one seen here:

(For the records, very little in that template is mine. Most icons were made by Aspectable, the activation icon is the same we're using, and the template itself is a variant of Noxx's old template) Erasculio 11:18, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I would definitely love to see the link to the skill list reimplemented, that one I miss a lot, and I like how the skill points cost is shown with an icon as well. Merging of two lines for profession mechanics is also a nice touch, but I'm afraid it wouldn't work as well for Death Shroud and Steal, and I'm also not quite sure why you went the exact opposite direction for weapon skills (breaking 1 line into 2). The larger skill icon is nice but it creates way too much whitespace around the icon parameters. I don't care either way regarding the profession/race icon. User Noxx Sig.png 13:17, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Environment : underwater-only or land-only statement.

Some skills can't be used underwater (and vice-versa) : mainly weapon and utility skills, while the majority are "per se" amphibious (and need not be modified). So it would be a good idea to add an environment parameter for such skills (with options: land, underwater and maybe amphibious, this last one for certain pets' cases perhaps).

No idea if thematic colors or environment icons (or even background images to reuse the idea just above, from User:Erasclio) should be used.

--Leonim 23:47, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

adding conditions/boons/control elements to the infobox

Hello all, I'd like to propose adding the elements in the title of this section to the infobox. This can be done with the current infobox, or the above proposed infobox as it does not add anything to the infobox per say. Here is my proposal, and here are various examples. As seen, I'd like to move the condition/boon/etc templates out of the Notes section on the skill pages, as they do not belong as notes. They would then be placed under the skill description. This has the added benefit of adding a plethora of parameters to the skill infobox that can be used by DPL to clean up the respective pages (poison, blind, fury, etc). It places the elements into a table with no boarders. Max of three columns (one for conditions, one for boons, and one for control elements). If a grouping of elements are not used then the table will only use 2 columns, and align to the left so as to not look foolish. This helps to eliminate some of the current whitespace that is introduced on the skill pages by the clear template. Thoughts? Venom20 User Venom20-icon-0602-sm-black.png 21:32, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

That seems like a lot for the infobox. Wouldn't that be more appropriate as another template? --JonTheMon 21:51, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
yes, but I thought the overlapping of templates may cause issue. This set of conditions/boons/ controls sits under the description but not under the infobox. I suppose as long as a second template sits in the same area, that would work. Venom20 User Venom20-icon-0602-sm-black.png 22:13, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
There is already the templates for each individual effect. Could re-purpose your boon/condition/control to accept those templates to fill in each area. Imo there is a little too much whitespace between the description and the list of effects, but other than that I like the setup. User Mattsta Sig1.jpgUser Mattsta Sig2.jpg 22:30, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
This is more concept than anything I think, I'm sure someone else can code it more elegantly. I've always been a "as long as it works" kind of coder. Also, I used all the effect templates already, this pretty much just implements them all in a mass of if statements and places them in a better location than without them. I will need to experiment later with layering a template over top of another template in terms of spacing, something akin to what JonTheMon is thinking. A second template to do this would be nice. I agree that if one were to use all the parameters, it would be entirely too large of a template, but the usual page has what is currently there + 3-4 more parameters for effects. Venom20 User Venom20-icon-0602-sm-black.png 00:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Categorization override

Many outdated skills are still categorized, due to the lack of parameter overriding it. Can we implement a parameter to manually override automated categorization? - Infinite - talk 13:27, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you talking about having a parameter to specify a category, or removing categorization for the infobox? --JonTheMon 13:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Removing any automated categories altogether. - Infinite - talk 13:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
There should already be a parameter for that: "categorize", the last parameter described. --JonTheMon 13:42, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I did attempt that, but it failed to show up on Show preview. Is that intended behaviour? - Infinite - talk 13:44, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
Le sigh That's b/c that part of the infobox was built wrong. Try it again. --JonTheMon 14:01, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
As per my mindless editting spree, one can tell it functions now. :P - Infinite - talk 14:16, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Help?

Hi, I'm from wiki-br, it's a translation project of this official wiki, I'm running into some problems with this template, it seems it adds too much space (maybe {{{clear}}} causes this?) below the skill infobox, I'm wondering why this is happening; check it here. Also, I've updated some stuff to the effects template, like intensity stacking, and a more game-looking description of these. - 187.53.138.214 08:34, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, got it figured out, it seems our wiki has been using an old version of the template, I've put graphical indicators to show what weapon slot the skill is set to, check it out. :) - 200.199.220.67 00:11, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
The graphic for weapon slot worked nicely here, good work guys, just remember to check every skill page as some of them simply does not show the weapon slot. Again, good work! :) - 187.53.138.214 11:23, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Another suggestion

Hello it's me again from wiki br, I want to suggest you put a navigation box below the skill infobox for fast travel between skills. I've changed some stuff to the skill infobox myself as you can see here, I made a template for chronologic-like box that should suit many cases, check it here. See you! - 187.53.138.214 17:00, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Let's tango!

The tango weapon-slot icons are nice, but I think the blue doesn't "pop" well enough. Could they be re-done with a more contrasting color? Maybe a yellowish-orange would work better.

For visualization:

Weapon slot 1 tango.png
Weapon slot 3 tango.png
Weapon slot 2 tango.png
Weapon slot 4 tango.png
Weapon slot 5 tango.png

Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:22, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I like the other images better, these ones are weird... - 177.1.251.84 03:46, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I like both actually and either would be fine by me. However I also think there's something with them that makes it less obvious which one is the highlighted one. I'm curious how they would look with less spacing between them. I think that could help with the "popping", since the spacing wouldn't give the eye more things to contrast with.
I'm also not sure about the spacing in between 3 and 4. It looks a bit off to me, even though I know why it's there. — Rhoot User Rhoot sig.png 03:53, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the noobish, but what does "tango" stand for? - 177.1.251.84 07:33, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Tango is a design standard for icons. It is the name of the design idea behind the clean glossy icons. I didn't even know we had weapon slot tangos. I think the spacing between the 3rd and 4th wouldn't be so bad if the spacing was reduced across the entire image. What do the other images look like? User Mattsta Sig1.jpgUser Mattsta Sig2.jpg 07:52, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
I've made them the same blue as active links (which the infobox is full of). A single random orange dot won't look good in an infobox imo. I think that making non-active less shiny will fix the problem. Alfa-R User Alfa-R sig.png 07:57, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
(Dunno if it's the wiki being slow, but 3 and 4 still look the same.) That looks better, but I agree with Mattsta about the spacing - reduce the space between 1-2-3 and 4-5, leaving a larger space between 3-4. Less whitespace will also improve the contrast. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Lack of consistency in skill descriptions.

The skill Strike is under the skill type "chain". It's description is...
Chain. Strike your foe.
The skill Arcane Blast is under the skill type "arcane". It's description is...
Blast your foe with energy for critical damage.
In the first example above (as well as in almost all guardian chain skills), the skill description begins with the skill type ("Chain"). In the second example (as well as in almost all other skills), the skill description does not include the skill type ("arcane", "spirit weapon" or whatever), since skill type is described in the skill infobox anyway.
I believe it would be nice for us to pick one among those two formats, so all skills would be under the same formatting. Erasculio 02:56, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

On GuildWiki, we do not include the skill type in the description so that we don't duplicate information that's already in the infobox. On GWW, they do include the type in the description so that it perfectly matches the in-game description. I generally prefer presenting things exactly as they appear in-game, but this would be an exception - if the type is already in the infobox, then it's redundant to show it in the description as well. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:13, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Another point on description formatting: Do we need to include wiki links in the description for things that are automatically linked elsewhere in this template? See Reaper's Mark. Mark is linked in the infobox, and Fear is linked in the effect list immediately below the description. Is that necessary? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:46, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Not sure if I understand, but I would say yes it is required to show fear in the effect list since the skill doesnt state duration. As for main hand experience I tend to read the effect of a skill and wonder how long does it last, so having a section that mention the duration of said effect is important in my opinion.Tech Wolf-Talk 01:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
No, I'm asking whether the word "Fear" in the skill description needs to be a link. The effect listed directly below the description automatically contains a link, so why does the description need to have one as well? It seems redundant. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
Oh now I understand, well yeah it is redundant to have 2 link for it, but then if we remove the first link, we run into an inconsistence since we usualy use the first one to be the one that redirect, but if we remove the second one (I think it is possible but, I have no knowledge in coding) would require to rework the template, or maybe just add a way in the template to enable or disable a redirect. Also to return to what Erasculio said, It might be just me but I prefer to keep it on the format like Strike, mostly because 1) it is the description of the skill in the game 2) it is GWW2 template, why should we have 2 version(when I mean version I don't mean a second template but a modified one that allow on or off option for skill type) for a template because of some few(no idea of the amount) skill that show his skill type in the description. So to conclude, even if it is redundant I think it is better to keep both information.Tech Wolf-Talk 03:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
The problem with removing the "redundant" links is how it changes the skill lists. In the lists themselves, we only see the skill description, not the effects. Therefore, removing the links from the description would effectively remove the links from the skill lists.
Personally, I like the format "Type. Description" more than just "Description", but whatever is chosen, I only want to have the same format for all skills. Erasculio 03:51, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm with you 100% on the need for consistency. But I'm also in favor of reducing redundancies. Skill type is listed in the infobox, why does it need to be in the description? On the other hand, maybe we don't need to list the type in the infobox? (Compared to GW1, a much higher percentage of skills don't have a specific type, so who knows, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.) I just want to avoid listing the exact same bit of info more than once within the same template. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:18, 11 May 2012 (UTC)
As much as I would prefer stating the type in the skill description, what gets me is, again, the skill lists. In the lists, the skills are grouped by type (see here for an example), so if the skill type were mentioned in the description, we would end with a skill list showing for example a "Glyph" section, and, within that section, skill descriptions would begin with "Glyph" as well. This is the kind of redundancy we really don't need. It may be better, after all, to just remove the skill type from the descriptions. Erasculio 04:34, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Directing to the skills' page

Hi, I've just changed a little thing, the name, e.g. Warrior, redirects to that profession skills' page, and the icon to that profession's page. It should help people have a way to "backtrack" to the profession skills' list much easier, of course you can just change it back if it turns out a bad thing. :) - 201.24.9.137 18:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Placement of text for description

I have a tiny suggestion. I would like to move the small text "in-game description" from the right to the left or center. As it is now, many descriptions are short at to the point, and the "in-game description"-text kind of gets lost way out there on the right (especially on wide screens, which are more and more common). So much whitespace, and it only adds confusion if anything :) - anja talk 20:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Left-aligned sounds good. Actually, I wouldn't mind if the main {{quotation}} template was modified that way too. (That said, I imagine it's quite clear where the skill description is coming from, particularly with the huge quotation marks... Perhaps we could just leave out "in-game description" from skill pages altogether.) pling User Pling sig.png 20:20, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
I think that leaving it to the right, but changing block width from 100% of the screen to 100% of the content (by changing quotation block display property from block to inline-block + adding clear to the end) would work. It will look like this:

Random description text to show how it works.

— In-game description

A bigger chunk of text. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

— In-game description

Alfa-R User Alfa-R sig.png 20:24, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
I'd prefer a uniform location for it. Also, when looking for the source, after seeing your first example (the one-liner), my eyes go to the end of the last sentence for the second example - except the source isn't at the end of the sentence. pling User Pling sig.png 20:30, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Quotations are almost never used next to each other like that, so that shouldn't really be a problem. On the other hand, the Chicago Manual of style says that sources in block quotations should be given a separate line for poems only, for regular text they should be given in parenthesis right after the text, so quotes should look like this:

Random description text to show how it works. (In-game description)

A bigger chunk of text. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. (In-game description)

Alfa-R User Alfa-R sig.png 20:53, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Do we really need to have that "in-game description" notice in the skill articles, anyway? Using the quote template to indicate a source works in something like the profession pages, in which the source isn't obvious and in which it isn't perfectly clear what has been copied from an official source and what has been paraphrased by wiki authors. Skill descriptions don't really work that way. Erasculio 21:04, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Removing the text is a perfectly fine alternative too! But I liked the first proposal from Alfa-R, with the text following the text width - anja talk 20:35, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Skill formatting proposal

Since it's about the implementation of this template, it's best to point here as well that I have submited a proposal for a skill formatting article. Erasculio 21:10, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Combo field and combo finisher information

I think combo information (both field and finisher) should be kept in the skill infobox, as they used to be, as opposed to in the skill description as they are right now. They have been moved out of the infobox presumably since the game lists them among the other variables such as damage and range. However, we do not list all information exactly as the game does - for example, all utility skill descriptions begin with the skill type, but we have moved that information from there to the infobox itself. Likewise, I think we could move the combo information from the variables and to the infobox.
The variables we list under the skill description are usually numeric variables, and usually things that can change - the damage done by a skill depends of the character's stats, range may not necessarily change but it's still a numeric variable, and so on. In other hand, the skill infobox usually has text information, describing information that is more static and less likely to change, such as to which attunement or weapon a given skill belongs to. Considering the nature of the combo information (how it's static, and a text variable), I belive it would work better if grouped with similar information inside the infobox.
The code for this would be simple to add to this template, since it was there a few months ago. Erasculio 16:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

How would you handle e.g. Explosive Shot where there's a qualifier on the combo? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:22, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Combo | Field (projectile, 20%). This is the exception, rather than the rule, so I'm not that worried about it. Erasculio 16:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I never liked that old style, because it places the emphasis on "Field"/"Finisher", relegating the actual useful info (what kind of field/finisher) to a lower-case word in parentheses. If we go back to that, I'd like to see it changed to:
Combo field | Fire
Combo finisher | Projectile (20%)
Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:55, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok. May also be useful if there is any skill that is a combo field and a combo finisher. Erasculio 17:02, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I disagree, skill variables should be kept in the skill variable section. Whatever we choose needs to work for everything, so dismissing exceptions doesn't work. Also, I too did not like the relegation of the actual field/finisher type to a subscript. Aqua (T|C) 18:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Instead of the full combo information in the infobox, might I suggest a clear indication (possibly in tango form) that a skill has a field or finisher effect? - Infinite - talk 18:19, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Where in the infobox would you place that? It doesn't fit in with the normal "label" | "value" pairs, so I'm not sure how well that would play out. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Alongside recharge and the rest of them tangos? - Infinite - talk 18:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) How many combo skills with a certain % chance to trigger combo there actually is? Two? And they're all recharge-less attacks, correct? I don't really see any reason to abandon including combos from infobox just because there's no pretty way of including that value for chance. Isn't that why they were removed from infobox in the first place? Mediggo 19:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Aqua, theorically skill recharge, skill attunement and all those other features are also skill variables, but they are not included in the skill variables section. My argument is that the combo information is closer to the variables described in the infobox (static, text-based variables) than to the characteristics described in the variables section (more flexible, number-based). Ishmael's suggestion above has dealt with the issue of not placing the actual field/finisher as a subscript, as well as with the percentage thing.
Although Infinite's idea could work, too. I do think it would work better as text under the infobox, but his idea has some merit. Erasculio 21:11, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Eras, by skill variables I mean things that appear after the skill description in the tooltip (i.e. conditions/boons/damage). Recharge is its own thing, and attunement is not explicitly referenced. Aqua (talk) 20:55, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Aqua on this one. It felt odd to me when the combo information was in the infobox, wheras in game, the information is listed alongside the variables list. I think keeping it synchronized with how the game displays the information makes it more intuative. --Thervold 21:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
Probably "variables" is an unfortunate word choice, because, as Erasculio pointed out, it doesn't accurately apply to everything we currently place in |variables=, and it can also apply to other things in the infobox. I think a better way to think about it is to make a distinction between properties of the skill - things like profession, weapon, recharge, etc. that determine where/when/how you can activate the skill - and effects of the skill - the things that the skill does when activated and the things that signets/virtues do when passive. Properties belong in the infobox, while effects belong under the description as they are in-game. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:18, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
@Thervold: we are already documenting the skills differently from what they are seen in game. The in-game descriptions begin with the skill type; we have moved skill type to the infobox, away from the description.
@Ishmael: you have a nice point, but then again skill range has been left inside the variables section. By your definition, it's a property, not an effect. Erasculio 22:45, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
True. I think the real point we need to realize is that there's no "perfect" way to describe and organize this info. Thus, I say we just follow the conventions established by Anet with the in-game tooltips on what goes under the description. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Remove type from infobox and add it to skill description, then? Erasculio 01:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Movement cancel

Should we put any information related to movement cancelling the full activation of a skill like meteor shower, barrage etc in the infobox? Or maybe it's something that can go to a notes section on the skill pages? As far as I can remember, that information wasn't in the tool tip in-game. --Lania User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg21:57, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

If it's not given by the in-game tooltip, it should go under Notes, IMO. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:09, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
By full activation, I suppose you mean channeled skills? It should be noted if they can be used while moving or if movement stops channeling of the skill. I think canceling any skill with activation type, other than channeled, will instead make it go on a short recharge, as if having its activation interrupted. Channeled skills that are fully activated and "enter channeling" go to full recharge if interrupted, right? Mediggo 06:35, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, meteor shower and related skills aren't channeled skills. Meteors will start falling as soon as casting begins, but unless it is casted fully, the meteor shower stops shortly after. Canceling in mid cast does cause it to have a short recharge instead of a full recharge. But yeah, I'm not sure about channeled skills since all of the ones I've encountered can be used while moving, and cancelling it by using a roll dodge doesn't seem to make it recharge faster, but I could be remembering wrong. --Lania User Lania Elderfire pinkribbon.jpg19:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Environment weapons slot icons

Might be useful to have the skill slot icons display for environment weapon skills. -- User Nineaxis Icon Mesmer.jpg Nineaxis (talk) 03:47, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

I'd been thinking the same thing, and not just for environment weapons, but also for transforms and downed/drowning skills. So I moved the {weapon-slot} logic outside of the massive {slot} switch so it can be utilized by any skill type/context. Seems to be working - e.g. Electrified Tornado. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:15, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Category for skills with punctuation

I'm looking at Category:Shout skills and think that it would be great if the template can index them by the first letter rather than by the double-quote. No? -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 05:38, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Done. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:53, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
#replace - nice! Didn't realise that exists. One wrinkle though, there's this Save Yourselves, which is an obsolete skill but used to be categorised in the same category. I suppose it's actually a nice side effect to be able to exclude it from the category. Oh, you're actually aware of it already :D -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 14:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I checked the category to see what was all there before deciding how to update the template. :) That was the only one without quotes, and since it was historical, I just gave it the boot. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:28, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

A splash of colour is needed, perhaps?

It's difficult to tell what profession the skill belongs to at a fleeting glance. Admittedly this is a bit of personal preference because I like pretty colours, but also because I preferred the previous infoboxes, they had more... info and looked nicer. But, in my opinion, the colour is needed. The pages look a lot more drab than they did before the change. ~ ♥ Kailani! ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ 08:14, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

That was because the template wasn't updated yet. Should look as intended now. Alfa-R User Alfa-R sig.png 08:51, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
It would be great if the vertical line (here and in trait infobox) matched its colour to the header background just like in other infoboxes. User Noxx Sig.png 09:28, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, but that was harder to do for infoboxes, unfortunately. May be in a next update. Alfa-R User Alfa-R sig.png 09:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Ah, that's much better now. Thank you! :D ~ ♥ Kailani! ʕ •ᴥ•ʔ 12:18, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Tooltips/popups?

Does this wiki support tooltip popups? Would there be some way to install MediaWiki's tooltip extension so we could get previews similar to those we see in game? --Kaleden 18:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Separate parameters for passive and active effects

I suggest creating separate parameters for passive and active effects for signets (and potentially virtues as well), e.g. a parameter passive description, with which description would be treated as active (which it is for other skills anyway). This would help better automated formatting, especially on the Signet page, where all descriptions are filled in manually so far. User Noxx Sig.png 12:48, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Underwater parameter for h/uuu/e?

I noticed that on a quick search we aren't actually documenting which healing/utility/elite skills can/cannot be used under water. I thought the skill not being available or being replaced with something else could be a thing for the infobox, for example underwater = no adds a notice it is blocked, and underwater = Summon Something Something displays the replacement skill (if those still exist, I thought the necromancer had something) --zeeZUser ZeeZ Sig.png (talk) 14:48, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we need something for this. I was thinking more of a terrain parameter, where the values are land, water, or both. There are very few skills that have an aquatic counterpart - Rifle Turret, Tornado, and Life Blast are the only ones I know of - so I don't think that would be useful to have in the infobox at this time. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:17, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
So put that info in Trivia section, simpler. – Valento msg 21:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree with adding such a parameter and displaying the "unusable underwater" icon that has been added in BWE3 in the infoboxes and skill lists. While I think that adding the underwater replacements to the infobox may not be the best idea, if we hide that information in the Notes/Trivia section, only those who already know the skill does that will notice it there; we could perhaps add this directly below the description (with the skill icon, to attract even more attention) or above it, similar to the disambiguation links. User Noxx Sig.png 13:07, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Here's the icon: Not available underwater.png. My template-fu is still inferior. Add the icon next to the skill icon at the top, and a notice text at the bottom of the box? --zeeZUser ZeeZ Sig.png (talk) 13:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
The icon displays next to the recharge icon in-game, so I placed it in that section of the infobox. I imitated {{otheruses}} for the notice about the skill that replaces/is replaced. See Tornado / Whirlpool for how this works.
I'm thinking that notice would look better if it were formatted more like gw1:Template:Pvpversion, but I lack any style-foo to make it look good. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:42, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
It would be perfect if we also had a simple water droplet icon without the red cross to display for skills like Whirlpool or Dark Water. User Noxx Sig.png 19:15, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Linking the icon to somewhere useful

Hey, I've had an idea, what do you think of linking the underwater icon to a section (say "Unavailable skills") in Underwater mode page listing all skills that are not available underwater? You could use DPL in that section to gather the skills which can't be used underwater or write them down directly. Thoughts? – Valento msg 19:22, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe a DPL expert can even create the automated list to show skills that have a replacement underwater, and maybe displaying this info in a table. – Valento msg 19:24, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
I think that might be better left to the individual profession lists. A unified list of all professions would be too big, IMO. However, your first suggestion of linking the icon is good - the section will require an update to explain the icon, of course. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:42, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I see, seems perfect and simple. – Valento msg 18:35, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

ground-targeted skills

We need to add something for skills that are ground-targeted. I've compiled a mostly-complete list at User:Dr ishmael/ground-targeted skills, and there are 4 types: circle (most of them), line (Line of Warding, Flamewall), arc (Frost Fan), and vector (Whirlwind Attack).

What should we name the parameter for this? I can't think of anything that isn't clunky, but maybe we'll have to live with that. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

'Targeting' would be short and simple. Or what are you speaking of exactly?
Edit: Or 'Targeting Type'... like 'Activation Type'. Gnarf 15:18, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Since all ground-target skills are AoE skills, maybe just area of effect? Like what is now outdated on the area of effect article. - Infinite - talk 15:53, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
EDIT:Or "area" for simplicity. - Infinite - talk 15:56, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
But a vector is not an area. Neither is a line, really. Also, there are point-blank AoE skills (either self- or target-based) that aren't ground-targeted. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:00, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Simply 'Ground-targeted'? Gnarf 16:07, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I guess we need to decide both the input parameter to the template:
{{skill infobox
| blah = bler
| ground-target = circle
}{
And the label that actually gets displayed in the infobox. I'll be fine with whatever, I just don't like having to be the one that picks between multiple clunky choices. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:09, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

I think it's not important what shape the targeting has. Line, Circle, whatever... To me, the important thing is an indication how a skill is targeted. Ground-targeted, target enemy, target self, melee ... Gnarf 16:15, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Are there any line skills that aren't AoE, though? All offense-oriented skills deal damage in the areas on and above the line, and the ward blocks targets in an area on and above the line. Veil of Invisibility and Spectral Wall inflict their effects on and above the line. The z-axis makes line-target skills vertical AoE skills. Essentially all target skills are AoE, just not horizontally (except melee line skills). - Infinite - talk 16:32, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Hum, so mix Gnarf's idea with Ishmael's, a parameter to define how the skill is targetted, and in case of ground-targetted the ground-target parameter would have to be specified; I'm just not comfortable with adding another label to the skill box, that "properties" list should stop growing, maybe represent these two info through icons? – Valento msg 22:02, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
If we do that and make a general target parameter, then why would we need a second parameter? Just let the values be "ground circle" and "ground line" etc.
This infobox is in no danger of being "too long," just look at some of them on Wikipedia - the country infobox takes up 2 full screens at 1080p resolution. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 22:34, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
I meant who/what it's targeted to (ground-targeted, target enemy, self-target, melee, etc) as Gnarf mentioned above. Btw, that's a pretty long infobox! :O – Valento msg 22:49, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Never mind, I got it now. – Valento msg 22:53, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. But to decide that, we need a preview first. Gnarf 08:29, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I had inspiration about this last night - just add "ground-target" as a possible value for activ-type. Because that's what it is, isn't it? It's a type of skill activation. Then we add ground-type to describe the shape of the ground target. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:22, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
Have you already checked if there might be conflicts with this? (i.e. a ground-targeted skill that has another activ-type) – Valento msg 05:40, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Sooo... is there any decision on this? It would be valuable to know at least whether it's ground-targetted or not, someone could make use of such a parameter (*cough cough*). :) – Valento msg 19:34, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
I will look into this when I have time, is anyone interested in going on with the discussion? – Valento msg 21:33, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe if you start a new section instead of revisiting a 2 year old section.--Relyk ~ talk < 16:42, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Tool belt and racial skills

Racial skills now have tool belt skills for engineers. Can someone please edit the template to allow the tool belt link to appear for racial skill infoboxes. Mora 19:51, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Standing still while casting

While most of the skills can be casted while moving, there are some which require you to stand still. Instead of flooding the notes section, would it be a good idea to implement that to the skill infobox? Not for every skill of course, but for those who actually require it. Gnarf 10:20, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know how we could indicate that in a clear and simple fashion. It would have to be text, in which case I'd rather leave it to the notes. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
"Maintenance: Standing still" - wouldn't that fit? Gnarf 14:50, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
"Maintenance" is not a known term, there's no icon for this mechanic, and it only applies to a small number of skills. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 16:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
I would go with Activ. type: Stationary, or rather Stationary, channeled since most, if not all, such skills are both. User Noxx Sig.png 22:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Shelter, Symbol of Protection (needs confirmation), and such. — Gnarf ~ El Psy Congroo ~ 22:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
I was rooted by some Guardian skills too. I thought this was a bug not a feature since the skill description gives no hint that this would happen. - Yandere Talk to me... 22:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd argue that Shelter is channeled as well due to the blocking; nevertheless, the exact wording would of course depend on the skill in question. User Noxx Sig.png 22:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
I think Noxx's suggestion to put it in the Activ. type-part of the infobox is very good. It could be represented with an icon, like a red cross over a boot or something. (Together with text, of course). - anja talk 07:26, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I would be wary of creating new icons to signify certain things. It could end up confusing when these icons don't exist in game. I am slightly torn though as if we improve our documentation it may encourage Arenanet to improve their in-game documentation. Such a thing may even be implemented between now and release, so while we can think about a good way of indicating this on skill pages/in the infobox, we should probably hold off doing things like creating symbols for it at least until the game has actually been released. Misery 09:37, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The sequence section

At the moment I believe that the sequence section of skill pages suffers the same problem that weapon pages suffered from previously. Namely that the information is all available, but not particularly accessible. You can see that Chop chains to Double Chop and then to Triple Chop, but not what that actually means. For Chop it isn't that important, but for Ether Bolt it is actually pretty important to know that the third skill in the chain summons a clone.

I would like to remedy this if possible, but I don't know if it should actually involve a change to the skill infobox, or if something should be added to the end of these pages, such as the two possible examples here. Please note that my verbose skill box is a work in progress and is here only for demonstrative purposes. I prefer the first option in this instance as the second is really much too large and not really what I was making that skill box for. Thoughts? Misery 10:16, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I think your changes, if I understand them correctly, are either too big or too small. I believe that listing partial information on all linked skills on each skill's page, wherever would that be, is rather pointless — this is already done in skill lists or weapon pages, which are made for simple overview of the skills. On the individual skill pages the information should either be completely separated or fully merged.
We are currently doing it the first way and if I would have one suggestion for improvement, we should somehow highlight the current skill's icon in the sequence line in the infobox, so that you don't need to compare the icons to see it's, say, the second skill of three. The alternative solution would be to have all two or three skills on the same page, with descriptions, effects, infoboxes, notes and all that, and then redirect the other skills' names to that one page (that's the way the German GW2W does it). User Noxx Sig.png 13:42, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll make the same argument here that I made for the weapon pages. I think it is much more intuitive to find out everything that a skill does on its skill page, including what it turns into when you use it, than to go to a list of all the skills to find out what a specific chain does. Why are we forcing people to look for information in a very specific way? At the moment going to Ether Bolt would require two more pages to be visited to understand fully what that skill does, assuming someone even knows to check for a chain. I'm not opposed to the German wiki approach in principle, but it makes it much more difficult to access information from the individual skills as is done on our lists of skills based on profession. Perhaps it would be sufficient to include the skill infobox portion of subsequent chain skills on the parent skill using includonly tags, leaving the two chain skill pages exactly as they are now. Misery 13:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Forms, conjures and device kits: Child skills

I would like to propose an addition to this template. Five variables child1-5. These would contain the skills that these various kinds of skills "turn in to" upon activation. This would allow lists of child skills to be generated simply by referring to the skill infobox of the parent skill such as I have done for a chain skill in the second example here. If done properly this could also be used for environmental weapons as well to automatically generate such lists as exist on some of these skill pages already either by expanding this skill infobox to do that or through the use of a second template.

I would prefer the latter as I feel this template is already complex enough and this section would not be required on a majority of pages. It would majorly simplify the documentation of these kinds of skills as all that would have to be done is the child skills would have to be entered into the template and then all these lists (such as currently visible on Conjure Lightning Hammer) could be generated automatically. Sorry for opening yet another discussion on this page, but the section above lead to me thinking about this. Misery 12:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I think you're thinking about this backwards. We already have the child skills listing the parent skill, and EW skills listing the EW. There's no need to list them both ways. While DPL can't sort them properly by slot, unfortunately, SMW will be able to do that, and more. Besides, all of the skills you mention already have a perfectly-functional table of their child skills anyway, so what's the need for this change? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:59, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
All the skills I mentioned do, but Category:Environmental_weapons contains many that do not and is likely to grow after release. Also the existing tables are not always formatted consistently. I was trying to think about how to approach this problem from the other side using the parent skill and I got sort of stuck. I may be doing it wrong, but wouldn't you have to go through every single skill (usually these skills do not have a common category and maybe this is actually the problem) and look at the parent skill, check if they match the parent skill in question, then populate the list in that way. This seems incredibly inefficient. If you know of a better way of doing this, please let me know. This feature would also be incredibly useful if anyone else wishes to use our data for their own applications, such as a site that has roll-over descriptions for skills, with the skill descriptions taken from this wiki. If they wanted a rollover to show not just the parent skill but also the children, this would simplify things greatly. I'm more than prepared to accept that there is a better way of doing this and eager to hear what it is if it exists. It may be true that SMW will address all these problems elegantly, but I am only just getting to grips with DPL, so you will have to forgive me if that goes over my head for now, but it also isn't installed yet. Misery 13:43, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Slot and activity

The template needs to be explained more or more examples given.

I added Member of the Kennel and that has 5 skills. It's a form effect specifically for a heart I couldn't figure out whether "slot" is needed and what value to put in. Is it @weapon@? @environmental@, or @utility@? Or none?

Had trouble with "activity" as well. The explanation of wasn't really helpful. This parameter auto-categorises but none of the values I've tried (heart, event, name of the heart, etc.) had existing categories. Examples of the possible/planned-for values are needed. -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 01:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)


Cast Times

So maybe I'm just slow and didn't notice this before, but as of build 15,674 it looks like there are cast times listed on skills now. ~ Capric 02:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

If so, that is brand-spanking-new, but we definitely need to document it. Downloading the update right now, and once I verify it and find the icon, I'll update the infobox for it.
Oooooh, what about the skill list pages? I bet people are gonna want it there, too. There really isn't much extra room to work with in the row templates. Oh boy. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 02:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Activation.png
Yep, spiffaroonie. Or something. Here's the icon, infobox is updated... time to go into documentation mode! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:08, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Durrr.. I'm sure this is probably documented somewhere, but what's proper way to write fractions for cast times etc? Right now I'm presuming to use ascii codes, eg ¼ ½ ¾. Should those be used or is there some special thing for them? Or should decimals just be used? ~ Capric 03:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Addendum: I figured it out. For others, it's ¼ ½ ¾ (See edit since I'm not clever enough to disable formatting) ~ Capric 03:29, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Either of those formats has the same resulting display - the & notation is simply a shortcut for people who don't want to spend the time finding the actual characters to copy or the ascii codes to use. :P I'm actually planning on putting some parser code into the template to transform decimals into the fraction characters - that way no one has to know either of those formats, and it makes SMW happy too (activation/recharge can be stored as number properties instead of string, which makes them a lot more useful for queries). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:17, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Huh, okay. I saw that they displayed identically, but I thought there was some other benefit to using the &frac style (since it looked like that's what you were using). But I'm inferring that right now it's pretty much a wash for which one to use. Anyway, that decimal conversion will be pretty cool. Though personally I would be just as happy with plain old unconverted decimals :) ~ Capric 06:01, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Template:Fraction now exists to do this conversion. I'll do some runs with AWB this afternoon to "correct" the various formats (¼, &frac14;, and {{1/4}}) that have been used so far. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)