Talk:Zone

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Explorable zone?[edit]

So we have Zone redirecting here. As far as I know, there isn't any other type of zone that isn't "explorable". Wouldn't this page be better as Zone?--Lon-ami 18:32, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Maybe they want it has opposed to Instanced zones, like dungeons and certain locations in towns. If a map isn't explorable, then I don't think there is any point in it existing anyways(unless it's a removed map or something). I guess you can say every map is a zone, and each zone can be explorable(has monsters, quests, points of interest, waypoints, etc) or be instanced(is a dungeon, storyline map for alking to a special npc or have a event triggered). UkranyPt 10:50, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
There's a discussion on location terminology here. The discussion regarding the prefix wasn't really resolved, but it's primarily meant to be a little bit clearer. A city can be considered as a type of zone. An explorable zone is... a non-city zone. -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 08:08, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Bringing this back. I think having Zone, City and Dungeon would be fine, and there's no room for confusion.--Lon-ami (talk) 12:00, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

renown heart list[edit]

I've noticed that there are two different ways that renown heart lists are displayed. there is one after zone completion, and one much latter down the page. I'm arguing that it would be better up near the top of the page. The argument being that I believe most players will be most interested in the renown hearts if they were going to a zone. That being said, I am new to this wiki and new to wikis in general, so I figure i'll leave it up to someone else. Everfeather 18:42, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Take a look at Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Location formatting and Guild_Wars_2_Wiki:Projects/Cartography. -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 10:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Mount Maelstrom is not in Maguuma[edit]

I do not know how to fix the table or I would do it myself, but Mount Maelstrom is in the Steamspur Mountains. C The 03:01, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Geographically, yes, but mechanically, it contributes to the Maguuma Explorer achievement, thus it is part of the Maguuma Jungle region. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:47, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Wayfarer Foothills[edit]

...is missing from the DPL table. I'm pretty sure it was there when I created that table, and I can't figure out why it's missing now. Even the simplest DPL query on uses = Template:Area infobox doesn't list it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, I just realized the problem. DPL is limited to 500 results, and this limit is applied before any result filtering, e.g. by includematch, which is just plain stupid. I hate DPL. But at least I think I can fix it. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
Fixed. If we simply had these things categorized in Category:Explorable zones this would've been so much simpler, but nooooooooooo, that's really dumb apparently. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:57, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Table improvement[edit]

I did this for personal use User:Lon-ami/Zones by level but maybe it was nice for public use, too. Opinions?--Lon-ami (talk) 12:02, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I am glad that someone boldly implemented the OP's table format for this article. It is much simpler to use and it offers sorting. 75.37.23.47 20:08, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

"Counts towards Heart of Thorns world completion"[edit]

So, while pondering whether I should pre-emptively add Path of Fire world completion to the zone table row template, I started wondering: what on earth does "Heart of Thorns world completion" mean, anyway?

Completing all those maps doesn't have any special "world completion" reward, character nameplate star, title or map GUI. Sure, they do have map completion rewards, like every other map does, and those rewards contain a subcomponent for crafting legendary weapons, but the last time I've checked world completion wasn't defined by the ability to make shiny weaponry. Furthermore, those gifts are still purely driven by map completion, as you can complete each zone on a different character, which still gives you all the items without you actually achieving "HoT world completion" anywhere.

So, is the HoT world completion respected somewhere in the game or is there any other reason why it should remain, or am I free to just scrap it? User Noxx Sig.png 18:34, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

crap it. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:53, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Feedback 2018/07/30[edit]

Apparently, as documented in Ember Bay, gathering & vistas done in the zone count for Heart of Maguuma dailies. I don't think it should be grouped with VB AB TD DS, because those are core maps to HoT. Still shouldn't this detail be included in the table? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 162.205.5.130 (talk) at 20:08, 30 July 2018‎ (UTC).

Ring of Fire[edit]

As of 9/17/2019, Ember Bay is listed as mechanically being in the Heart of Maguuma, while Draconis Mons is listed as mechanically being in the Ring of Fire. It didn't used to be - is it supposed to be this way? The preceding unsigned comment was added by PanBelacqua (talk) at 00:31, 18 September 2019‎ (UTC).

Ember Bay has been part of Heart of Maguuma mechanically for as long as it has been in the game, but it was originally listed wrong on the wiki. So yes, it's supposed to be this way. SabSparrow (talk) 02:30, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
It frustrates me to no end that it is the case, but it is, as you can see in the API here and here. Ember Bay was originally listed as being in Ring of Fire due to the ecstasy of going to a new region without having checked the API (my bad), but it was always wrong. This is also part of the reason why I added the Geographical region column, because the Mechanical one is often a huge mess. User Noxx Sig.png 05:37, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
Bummer, sorry that I didn't check the discussion before my October 9 edit :) — Ralesk (talk) 20:33, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Show which Story[edit]

One of the issues is that the name of zone isn't mentioned in the achievement section or the story journal. So its very difficult to tell which Story to start to open up a zone on a different character. Could that last column be expanded to include the name of the Living World release? The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.47.8.228 (talk) at 14:18, 12 June 2020 (UTC).

Currently if you hover over the icon next to, for example, Living World Season 4 (notice how all the icons are different on each line?) it links to the story achievement section (named the same as the release). Should only be one more click away from there to find the first story episode of each chapter. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:23, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Yep, it can be seen by hovering the icons there. However, since the wiki is now more mobile-friendly I also agree it would be a good thing to have the info right away (there is no hovering on mobile). What if instead having it like "Living World Season 4" it was the episode name right away? No need to put a new column or something, just change the link to point to the episode directly instead the season. Txonä Atan - (talk) 19:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, then we lose the column saying which zone is part of which LWS/IBS season? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:17, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Well, we might not have to, we could either keep both columns or say something like "War Eternal (LW Season 4)" or "LW Season 4, War Eternal", I've been considering that for quite some while now as well. The problem I see with that is what should we do about maps released over multiple episodes (which is a problem we already have with the achievements, as there's no icon for Shadow in the Ice (achievements), we really should show both). We could perhaps say Whisper in the Dark, Shadow in the Ice (The Icebrood Saga), but that's getting quite long, or use multiple lines. And once we go down that path, we should also show Gates of Maguuma, Entanglement, The Dragon's Reach: Part 2 (LW Season 2) for Dry Top for consistency.
Whatever the case, it would take up more space. On a somewhat related note, there's a lot of "wasted" space before the level 80 indicator that I've been eyeing for a long time. We could theoretically split the table in two—base game (with world completion) and post-launch zones, which are all level 80 anyway, shrink that space and use it for the release information instead. However, I'm not convinced by that either, as it can be a useful indicator showing people that all of those maps are max-level, despite the layout issues... User Noxx Sig.png 10:56, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Tried reducing the scaling width, looked ugly. I've always quite liked the ability to sort the table by the zone column with the coloured blocks with zone-level, but is it actually useful? -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 13:38, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox - potential rework without the excessively wide column. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 14:04, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I never realized just how much did the region colours help with distinguishing between the individual rows, I've got to say the list without any colour is quite uninviting. Besides, it still doesn't link to the releases, only the achievement categories, and I'd personally prefer to keep the geographical regions, given how misleading the mechanical ones often are.
I wanted to try something completely different and, so I added loading screens to the rows (similarly to Release) to help give each zone/row a bit more identity; take a look at User:Noxx/Sandbox. I'm still not 100% happy with it, but with a bit more tweaking that could be a viable alternative. User Noxx Sig.png 20:01, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Well, both options look fancy and stuff but we can't forget the main purpose, that's Zones by level meaning it's main purpose is to tell their related levels. All the other info are additions. They having achivements or not or being part of map completion is irrelevant to the article. There is no mention about these anywhere in the article other than in the table. I also see the "wasted" space with that colored blocks but I like the idea of why it's so. My idea was just swapping the links in the "Released in" column for their respective episodes. Sure we have cases of zones being split between several releases, but so far we have only 3 cases (Dry Top, The Silverwastes and Bjora Marches), maybe they could just get a footnote added then the line won't get too long. I think we don't even need info about map completion, the Map completion article covers that (maybe just add a link pointing to that article under the Exploration section), same for achievements. --Txonä Atan - (talk) 21:28, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
To be fair, the column is called 'Released in', which (at least for me) implies it should link to the first release the map appeared in. That might solve the problem. DJemba (talk) 21:36, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
Yep, maybe put a link to the first release and then add a note for those spread through other releases. --Txonä Atan - (talk) 21:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I really like the table with loading screens from Noxx. Maybe have that as a separate table and keep an altered version of the "by levels" table below. —Kvothe (talk) 22:27, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I really like Noxx's table too; it's so pretty. But having both would lead to unnecessary bloat, in my opinion, and unfortunately I'm not convinced Noxx's version does as good a job of comparing the zones by level. —Idris User Idris signature.png 22:54, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
I'll admit, I somehow completely missed the fact the section is actually called Zones by level... Nevertheless, that was certainly a lot more important distinction when most of the maps weren't max-level, the question is why should the main list of zones focus so much on level in a game where it matters so little, why shouldn't the list be Zones by alphabetical order, Zones by region or Zones by release order instead (which it actually is as well)?
So, we could either keep the current focus on level and (more or less) leave the table the way it is right now and has been for years; change the focus and use a different style for the list (whether mine, altered or different altogether); or use two tables, one focusing on levels, one on other info. I am personally in favour of the second option, I'd say alluding to the zone theme is more important than levels and I don't think it's necessary to duplicate the info in two tables. Whatever the case, I do feel like that table's design can still be improved, I like the loading screens there but even I'm not convinced by the rest of the row. I'll certainly think about that in the meantime and try some sort of a compromise. User Noxx Sig.png 23:03, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
That's a fair point about newer maps; the current table does look a bit dopey with so many level 80s squished up against the right-hand side. Maybe we could split it into two tables, so the first one covers the original release maps, and the second covers the lw/expansion maps? This might be less bloaty than just repeating all the info across two tables. —Idris User Idris signature.png 23:22, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
So, how about something like this: User:Noxx/Sandbox? I decided to split the table in two after all: the first one still visually showing the level ranges, albeit in a lot more minimalistic and less space-demanding manner; and the second one replacing them with the unlock requirements and achievement categories instead. And this time I'm actually personally a lot more happy with the result. User Noxx Sig.png 21:45, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I like what you've done. The little level blob is quirky. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:11, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I liked the idea of splitting them like that, it just made it easier to tell what counts or not toward map completion. I'm just unsure if loading screens are needed but it gave a good look though (shudders at the ugly non-sense ones though). Overall it looks good but just a little quirks: what about using "Related achievements" instead the icon? Or was it intended to keep the column thin? Also I'm unsure about the "Unlock requirement" column, somehow it looks inconsistent. The living world links from season 3 onward just look unnecessarily repetitive, maybe put only the link to the release? For the ones released in seasons 1 and 2 it looks fine as it looks like a note added to the "None" requirement, maybe even using the link to their related releases instead to Living World seasons. --Txonä Atan - (talk) 23:26, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The reason why I only showed the achievement icons was because the category name would always just repeat the release or zone name and I felt that was unnecessary. I added the text there now, is that better?
I feel like the loading screens make the table more visually interesting (Dry Top notwithstanding) and help give the zones an immediate identity, you can tell the difference between Grothmar Valley and Bjora Marches at a glance, for instance. As far as LW season links go, I'd say they can be helpful for players who don't have all the releases memorized and they help a bit with grouping, I don't really see the need to remove those. The fact the first three zones don't list the releases is slightly inconsistent from the "release the map came with" point of view but I'd argue listing them all isn't that important, as unlike the rest of the zones that has no effect on gameplay nowadays for people with the core game only. User Noxx Sig.png 06:40, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Current one looks really good. You can use {{Achievement icon|Dry Top (achievements)}} for the achievement column. —Kvothe (talk) 11:18, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Some observations regarding User:Noxx/Sandbox:
  • Sorting by loading screen seems a little bit strange to me, furthermore it's the same as the column Zone. This could be disabled with class="unsortable" in the header.
  • While the Original release zones table can be restored to its default order by sorting the column Levels, there is currently no way to do this for the Post-launch zones table. Here it's sorted by release, i.e. the column "Unlock requirement", hence this column should not be sorted alphabetically but chronologically. E.g. this can be achieved by setting {{increment|release-cnt}} data-sort-value="{{#var:release-cnt}}" for each Unlock requirement table cell.
  • Several columns could be created automatically using smw. E.g. Alex created the property Has loading screen recently, set in the location infobox for zones. Furthermore, there are the property chains Has level range.Has minimum level and Has level range.Has maximum level. The property Located in allows to ask for the mechanical region.
--Tolkyria (talk) 13:09, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Thanks for all that advice, everyone. ^^ I turned the suggestion into templates in the meantime (I'm sure it could be done better, but it works :P), but as I'm not that experienced with SMW, there's one thing I didn't manage to do: make the image from Has loading screen link to the zone article. I tried things like ?Has loading screen#150px;link={{{1}}} (or even inserting the equals sign from a template akin to {{!}} just in case), but it didn't seem to work, can that be done in some way? User Noxx Sig.png 19:28, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm think there isn't any way to do it yet (at least I'm not aware of any). The equal sign "=" is reserved for specifing the result header of the current property, see smw:Help:Displaying information and smw:Help:Image tips (although these manuals are lacking some features). They are aware of it, see here, but don't expect any solution soon.
A proper workaround is either using link = none, disabling all links for all properties or simply add ?Has loading screen# to get this property in plain format. Then in the result format you can add your wanted file options. --Tolkyria (talk) 20:04, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Oh, I wasn't aware of the plain format, that makes things a lot easier, thanks. :) User Noxx Sig.png 20:30, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
The reason why I only showed the achievement icons was because the category name would always just repeat the release or zone name and I felt that was unnecessary. I added the text there now, is that better?
Oh, I actually meant the icon in the header, I see why it was only icons through the whole table. Something still bugs me about those Living Story links though, but I can't provide a better idea :S A last thing, I swear xD: do the links in "Geographical region" need to be small? Or was it a leftover of something? Overall, it looks good. --Txonä Atan - (talk) 22:44, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
I made the geographical region font smaller because for the most part the mechanical region is what matters in-game so it helps attract your attention there between the two similar columns. The geographical region is mostly just fluff made with a significant amount of hand waving in some cases (the worst offenders being Bloodtide Coast and Bitterfrost Frontier). However, I did try to remove it just now and make the text the same size, do you think it's better like this? User Noxx Sig.png 06:51, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
Actually the smaller text was fine visually, I just was wondering why. It looks good either way. --Txonä Atan - (talk) 03:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Well, it didn't seem like anyone here was against this design, so I went ahead and changed it. Let's see what that will do... ^^ User Noxx Sig.png 21:35, 21 June 2020 (UTC)