Talk:Effect stacking

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Red link[edit]

Erm, I think I preferred the redlink, and that was talking about multiple bleeds stacking. Not effects from separate attacks/skills. Not really enough to create something.--Corsair@Yarrr 00:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

While i agree this isnt enough information, i'm sure it is going to be common in more skills, and i added a stub so as more information is released, it will be filled in. Feel free to delete it and re-make it as more information is added though, wont hurt my feelings. Vald Thursday User Valdimir newsigicon.png 00:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I think we should just wait until there is a more official name for it. EiveTalk 08:47, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Nah, this is a very unnecessary page. What is said here, can be very well said on the pages of the conditions. Ge4ce 16:46, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I think we should keep it at least untill we know only a few conditions stack. I have a feeling that burning and poison will also stack. If it'll be so, keeping this page is a smart decision. --Exikor 13:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
It has been confirmed that there are multiple conditions that stack. (I don't think Burning will be one, but definitely Poison and possibly Weakness and Vulnerability.) The official name for stacking effects is effect stacking. These things can be found here. Removing delete tag. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк) 05:19, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Added some stack effects because they were listed on the individual skill pages but not here. Ee 08:18, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Poison and burning are stackable[edit]

Lots of footage and screenshots from the demo have shown that small icons are placed above your current target's name on the top of the screen to indicate conditions they are suffering from. Many are shown with small numbers beside them, indicating a stack. Here is a screenshot that shows that both poison and burning stack. [1] I'm sure it won't be hard to find others by looking at some demo footage. --Emelend 00:35, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

We will never see the end of Burning Poison Rangers. ~ Bow User Bow Sig.png | 00:41, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Guilds of Warcraft[edit]

everywhere I look :( Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә User Aliceandsven 3.png ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 09:56, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

WoW wasn't the first with stacking effects and GW2 won't be the last. --198.82.116.77 00:37, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Stack Cap?[edit]

Is there a known hard cap or is it just up to the variable limitations within the mechanic? -- Blue Phoenix User Blue Phoenix Phoenix inverted.jpg 06:31, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Intensity Stacking Example[edit]

I don't think the detailed example provided in the intensity stacking section adds much, if anything, to the page. I've commented it out rather than deleting it, since the original editor clearly spent some time on it, pending more serious discussion. ~Ekko (talk) 01:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree with you (being the original editor of that last update) : I tried to keep it optional with a hide/show feature as I didn't find it completely relevant to the main article as I was writing it. That's a problem with any extended use of examples, which are imo not a good thing on a wiki.
The mechanic for effect stacking is rather straightforward, and the update I made to the article explains it rather well. That long example is a failure of mine to find a sentence to explain why effect stacking doesn't forcefully mean twice a standard damage (like previously stated). I should have kept it for this talk page as it is now for reference and the curious.
--- Windy example moved from article page
To keep things simple, we could say the target would be suffering from 210% of the standard bleeding value during those six seconds, but it would be a bit innacurate as intensity is level-dependent.
In the above situation, lets say the bleeding comes from a level 38 character (Alpha) with no Malice, his bleeding rating is 19 (damage per second) for the unmodified 10s duration. While the second bleeding stack comes from her level 40 partner (Beta) with 100 points in Malice (the +10% damage enhancement) and 200 in Expertise (+20% in duration) applying 5s of bleeding : her resulting bleeding damage would be 22 (level / 2 + 10% from Malice) per second for 6s (5 + 20% from Expertise).
Alpha and Beta would bleed the infortunate target, regardless of her level and defense, for a total of 322 condition damage : 19 then (19 + 22) x 6 followed by 19 x 3. Meanwhile, Omega's player would see, on screen, corresponding packets of 19 and 22 hemorrhaging from her character.
To be complete, Omega could initially be under an effect which reduce the duration of received conditions, for instance -20% from a complete set of Superior Rune of Hoelbrak. Then each stack would get its own duration reduced (8s for Alpha, 5s for Beta), leading to an overall 262 bleeding damage broke down like this : 19, (19 + 22) x 5, 19 x 2.
The bottom line is that each stack of an intensity-stacking effect is treated independently from the others in terms of damage inflicted. Vulnerability is even more straight-forward as it momentarily reduces defense, effectively piercing the armor (and Toughness attribute) as long as it lasts.
---
Thanks for pointing this. -- User Leonim Sig.jpg Leonim [talk·contribs] 18:28, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Quickness stacking[edit]

I don't think quickness stacks in duration, can someone else test and confirm this? (I used haste and sigil of rage) Shadow X 18:11, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Contradictory information on duration stacking[edit]

10 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target. 3 seconds later, another 5 seconds of regeneration are applied to a target. For the next 5 seconds, the target will experience the effects of the most powerful regeneration stack at which point the lesser powerful stack effects take over for a further (10-3) 7 seconds

When a boon or condition stacks in duration from multiple sources, its strength is applied in the order of application, using the relevant stats for each source. For example, a stronger stack of poison applied over a weaker one must first wait for the weaker stack's original duration to expire before the increased damage takes effect.

Two drastically different answers... Neither of them really makes sense, still, I suppose one of them is the right answer? --Kgptzac 09:07, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad it's not just me that found that confusing. Robdalf 23:19, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
After a bit of testing, it seems like burn (at the least) ticks through based on the order of application (first in, first out) rather than having priority based on intensity. I'm a bit hesitant to change this section though, since I haven't gotten good tests done for poison / regeneration. Does anyone else want to weigh in on this? Softspoken (talk) 22:17, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Another kind of stacking: Precision[edit]

A Superior Sigil of Perception grants +10 precision for each kill. It also says "Max 25 stacks; ...".

How is this calculated? Is it 10 for each of the first 2 kills, then 5 more for the 3rd? Or, is it 25 x 10 precision, or 250 total (assuming you kill 25 things and don't die). Daddicus 03:36, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

It's +10 per kill up to 25 * 10 = +250 max. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:46, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Ahhh, thank you! I was hoping that was it. :) Daddicus 05:48, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect max durations listed for boon stacking[edit]

I'm not sure about what the actual maximum durations are, but I just tested that at least Retaliation lists a wrong maximum. It currently lists a maximum of 25 seconds, but I can easily get it to over 50 seconds on my guardian, so that makes the other maximum durations a bit suspect as well, meaning I'll have to start testing those :P Just wanted to give a heads up, I'm not going to be editing it since I don't know the true max duration just yet. I'm also able to get protection to at least 37 seconds, so that's wrong as well. I'll try finding another guardian to do some proper testing with as we'll hopefully be able to stack for longer durations than the cooldowns :P

Perhaps change the values to question marks, not sure what the convention is as I've never edited a wiki before. Unless there is another more up-to-date page on this subject?

Apparently these values are for sPvP only, my mistake. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sizzling (talkcontribs).

This discussion suggests that the maximum might vary depending on the source. --Felbryn 19:31, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Non-boon/condition stacking[edit]

Could the article mention how other things stack? For example, things affecting magic find, karma, XP, etc --Combatter 16:36, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

You would have a section on the appropriate page for your examples, like the "maximizing your karma" on karma.--Relyk ~ talk > 17:27, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Let's start to use proper language for stacking[edit]

If I put 52 playing cards on top of each other, I obtain a stack of 52 playing cards. Or a stack of cards. A stack, not 52 stacks. A stack of cards, not 52 stacks of "playing". Playing card = Might boon. When I stack 25 might boons, I obtain a stack of 25 might boons, or a stack of 25 boons. Never 25 stacks of might. It is impossible to have more than one stack of might (or any boon) at the same time. Visiting card = Bleed condition. When I stack 10 visiting cards, I never obtain 10 stacks of "visiting". Always one stack of 10 cards. One stack of 10 bleed conditions. We avoid jargon in this wiki, it seems, everywhere except in some rare cases like this one. How about making an effort to use the word "stack" properly? :) --Alad 07:52, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

You can have "one stack of ten cards", but there's nothing improper about having "ten stacks of cards". You're just using a slightly different metaphor for the same thing. Unless you can find some actual in-game text that says it one way or the other, I don't see any reason to change the current language. --Felbryn 08:15, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
ArenaNet uses the term "stacks" to refer to the intensity of the effect, like in Game updates/2013-02-26.--Relyk ~ talk > 08:19, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Short Temper, Berserker's Might, Impale (warrior sword skill), Signet Power, Dazzling, ..... —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Retaliation, Stability and Weakness - limited number of stack times[edit]

The article states that Retaliation, Stability and Weakness only stack in duration a certain number of times. Perhaps some information could be added as to what this actually means. What happens if someone applies Retaliation to someone for a sixth time? Does it replace/overwrite any existing Retaliation or does nothing happen at all? Cheers. --Combatter (talk) 12:34, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

In recent patch notes, I thought Immobility had a stack limit imposed of what, 4 stack? Sorry I don't have the link handy. BlackVegetable (talk) 04:00, 24 December 2013 (UTC)
Retaliation has a stack limit of 5. One thing I thought was a bug turned out to reveal that buffs can "only stack up to 9 times." https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Swiftness-Bug-when-40s/3448857 --Isil`Zha Dervish tango icon 20.png 20:02, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Do conditions/boons from a single player stack?[edit]

The examples show how the effects stacks between player a and player b. How does stacking work for a single player? The preceding unsigned comment was added by 134.134.137.71 (talkcontribs) at 22:49, 7 August 2013 (UTC).

It works the same way. They do stack. --Alad (talk) 19:13, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Feedback 2015/09/19[edit]

Insert feedback text here --101.178.231.214 12:30, 19 September 2015 (UTC) Under "Examples of duration-stacking effects" there seems to be a comment in italics that's not useful. The clarification asked for is provided just 3 paragraphs after it. Can I just delete it?

I deleted it, good find. Generally these comments should be put on the talk page, not the main page, so if you see something like that again you can probably delete it. Tyndel (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Would like more info on stacking limits[edit]

From the current page: "Most effects have a stacking limit, which means that the effect can only last so long, and further stacks cannot be applied while the stack is at the limit. This limit applies to each source independently, as multiple sources can stack the effect for longer than a single source."

Also: "Boons are limited to a maximum of 9 stacks, with the exception of Retaliation."

I'd like substantially more details/examples on these stacking limitations (assuming anyone actually knows how they work).

If I apply a tenth stack of swiftness, does it replace one of the existing stacks (which one?) or is it simply ignored (which would mean applying short-duration stacks of a boon could be actively harmful in many cases)?

If one of the first 9 stacks runs its course and expires, does that free up a "slot" for a tenth stack, or once you hit 9 do you need to wait for the entire combined duration to run out? If one of them running out frees up a "slot", then in what order does it use up the existing stacks? (FIFO, shortest first, something else?) For Regeneration or Retaliation, since stacks can vary in quality rather than just duration, what happens if you have a short-duration high-power stack competing with a long-duration low-power one for a slot?

What counts as a separate "source" for a boon? What actually happens when you get the boon from multiple sources?

If you use one of the skills or traits that converts conditions to boons (or vice versa), how many stacks do you end up with after the conversion? If you use Signet of Inspiration to copy your boons to allies, does it copy the number of stacks as well? (You could hit max stacks very quickly that way.)

What are the max stacks for the rest of the effects in the game? The page mentions cripple and slow, but doesn't specify their cap; it doesn't even mention exotic effects like stealth, alacrity, and superspeed.

Why the heck do we have such a weird, complicated, poorly-documented rule in the first place? (I'm having a hard time seeing what design goal or technical limitation it could possibly address.) --Felbryn (talk) 09:19, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Help the confused bonobo that i am[edit]

Which one is it ? Should there be an "A" in the 15-20 column ? Should there be a 15-20 column ? Help, i'm losing my mind !

User Serge Yseron confused bonobo.jpg
Serge Yseron (talk) 18:34, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Some people have cleared it up for me on the GW2 forum: the sequence is ABBA, B is inserted, extending A, A will not be accounted for during B. Yseron - 90.88.80.150 19:32, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Regeneration updates dynamically[edit]

Currently the note states "Damaging effects (retaliation, bleeding, poison, burning, torment, and confusion) of a specific source will update in intensity if the source's stats change by various means (e.g might). However, same does not apply to Regeneration. Using Banner of Tactics will not update the next healing ticks from regeneration if banner was applied after the regeneration was."

I have however experienced that Regeneration DOES update intensity after casting as per stats change for each tic. For example: If a druid casts regen with traited Call of the wild using Berserker's warhorn, after weapon swapping to a magi's staff their regen continues ticking with a higher value (and lower again if swapping back).

This may require further testing. Whether the old statement is fully outdated or if the banner has different effect I haven't had a chance to test yet.

Feedback 2017/04/24[edit]

The note regarding regeneration in the end is incorrect, regeneration does scale dynamically as per healingpower changes tic by tic. --Cinnamonfox (talk) 08:01, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Regeneration Stacking doesn't work the way it's described.[edit]

The longest boon will run first, then the rest will follow. The ABBA pattern talked about in the discussion section here would be preferable, but it's not what actually happens in game.

I've tried it out with another Mesmer :https://youtu.be/jrJyuPWBY40

What seems to be happening is: After the current stack runs out it switches to the one with the longest duration, If there is more than one at the same longest duration it takes the one with highest heal power. At 5 stacks, instead of just not taking up more regen packets it replaces a short duration packet with a long duration one. (Mostly speculating here)

Point is, regen stacking is not as clean and helpful as we'd all hope.

Ranys (talk) 22:31, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

I kind of want to do a total rewrite + test some of this stuff from scratch[edit]

It's clear that

  • regen obeys different rules than the other duration-stacking boons. Any related info and examples IMP should be moved to that page
  • at least one example on this page is of suspect correctness

It's further clear that, strictly speaking, this page doesn't do a good job of answering some questions. (I've made the page more concise, fixed 1.5 examples, and made 8 wording changes, but that isn't much)

  • when do stacks overwrite each other?
  • when does a stack causes another stack to drop off the end of the stack of applications?
  • when does a stack actually pause?

TL;dr I think the rewriting of this page could be its own page by merit of so much conflicting information and so much to double check and so much to decide/vote on. (Such as: can we move regen-specific nuances to the regen page?) --Nolanlemahn (talk) 12:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Fury stacking[edit]

To coroborate the statement of the previous section (page rewrite + test) I tested in the Training Area with a Warrior having almost 100% boon duration (banner, Diviner gear, food) with both Arcing Slice (to not have to use the CD resfresh musroom) and Signet of Rage (to see how far I oculd push the test with the mushroom). I managed to get a a maximum Fury duration of more than 4min30sec with Arcing Slice and 7min20sec with Signet of Rage. I think the misunderstanding is linked to a misunderstanding of Heat Sync that was thought in the example to give a single aggregated Fury stack from all the ones of the Tempest but instead what it does looks closer to giving individually all the stacks present ont he Tempest (which would explain the necessity of giving an effect on the affected player in order to handle up to 9 stacks correctly).

Will update the wiki accordingly, wanted to post this here to keep a trace of why this change was done.

  • Arcing Slice could give me 31.5sec of Fury at level 3 at 97.13% boon duration so I could have at most 283.5sec of fury which is 4min43.5sec so consistent with observations
  • Signet of Rage could give me 49.25sec of Fury at 97.17% boon duration so I could have at most 443.25 which is 7min23.25sec so consistent with my observations

BackIsBachus (talk) 08:24, 13 July 2019 (UTC)