User talk:Chieftain Alex/Archive 6

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Per This

Yeah, I didn't do anything then. Except for answer the person's question. And I could, technically, pull the same comment about you complaining about me, yet not doing anything. And yes, you have complained about me. So I'm a little sick and tired of fixing Santax's formatting, so I'm sick and tired of the game to the point where it's a pain to edit anything on the wiki or even post on the forums. If you're going to complain about my complaining about a person rather than actually starting up the old edit wars over the DOZENS of errors - both formatting and lorical - that I've seen Santax do, I just have one request: don't. Because one comment after looking at dozens of things that made me, quite literally, facepalm is far from bad. May not be perfect, but it isn't bad. Konig 14:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Well at the moment I'm hauling the dialogue out of the history page. Far more productive than trying to coerce you into being useful. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 14:31, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
How ironic, since I didn't see you do that yet I went and did the same, reformatting for consistency. Konig 14:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
And "useful" is subjective, given how pointing people to the issue or the solution can be useful - rather than shutting up and whatnot. Incidentally, I did both before you "coerced" me via insult (intended or not). Konig 14:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
don't go all emo on me + harm your userspace... (sure you want all those deleted?) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:16, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Well, I'm very sorry for having chronic depression. It's a bitch, especially when I also have anger issues. And yes. Konig 17:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Quite a lot of things link to User:Konig Des Todes/The Archivists' Sanctum, so I haven't yet deleted it. (don't think it should be speedy either) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I too have bouts of chronic depression; I cry every night to the sounds of Rick Astley and flashbacks to Taffy the hamster, who died after two weeks in my brother's care--Relyk ~ talk < 21:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Something about tables is behaving differently for me and I don't get it. On Bag of Alliance Supplies and Spinal Blade Pack, the table is going at the end of the sentence of the paragraph before it. I never had this problem before. Did I just get lucky with tables before? What's going on! MAKE THE VOICES STOP! Psycho Robot (talk) 21:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes you did just get lucky before, I've had this many times. I have done two things: i) added "display:table" to your new template to get it to fall into place. (bloody awful display: inline-block) and ii) added a parameter to {{clear}} so that it can be used to left-clear stuff. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Separate section instead of putting in the summary...--Relyk ~ talk < 21:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

API List of applications

Please look into, ... thanks...

this reply won't be satisfying to anyone, but really I'm just an admin here + don't actually do gw2. I can't vet any applications with any gw2 expertise, and really don't think I should be touching the API namespace at all. (I'm severely out of my depth there). I will however add your application, but henceforth i won't be touching it at all. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:01, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Why did he post on your page of all people? Maybe because you're active and not Ishmael? I see, you responded to the last few posts.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

+ not behind a bar

Actually, it is. I just went behind the bar too so that I could get a full image model. Same model, same kind of background (bars), but one has full model the other doesn't. Konig 16:28, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Surely the fact that the NPC is behind the bar is more important than being able to see the NPC's legs? The importance of the context is the reason we don't just, say, use a render. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:33, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
The reason we don't use renders is because we don't have them and no one's getting them. Konig 16:40, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

custom release navs in Template:Temporary

Get on it. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:52, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

alright. The image is the easy bit, the text + formatting much less so without entering more values. I'd like to be able to extract the formatting from the Release page.. dpl would be the obvious choice. (I thought about subobjects, but then we'd pretty much be storing the wikicode as some random property "Has release label" -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:56, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
ugly fix works perfectly. highfive! :P -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:33, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Brohoof! /) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Wonder what your favorite weapon is Psycho Robot (talk) 19:49, 11 March 2014 (UTC)


you just eced me on User:Alfa-R/Sandbox somehow. Teaches me to troll RC.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:18, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

damn, and there I thought you were going to say that you were having trouble posting 250k bytes of "we are anonymous" on a mainspace page. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 22:20, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
No, that would be utterly uninteresting and not worth my time.--Relyk ~ talk < 21:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
are you from the same pvx that i was from? cos that sounds like a blast -Auron 02:19, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
...fine--Relyk ~ talk < 02:39, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Lack of capitalization

Sorry for Hurting your capitalistic[sic] Feelings chieftain alex ;) tiTus tHe tHird User titus the third.png 23:10, 12 March 2014 (UTC) Won't happen again :) Titus The Third User titus the third.png 06:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

PvP stuff

I don't know that you want to spend too much time cleaning up PvP articles. The PvP overhaul system is coming out soon and after that, its likely that every article will be obsolete and need to be deleted or completely reformatted. Psycho Robot (talk) 17:50, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

yeah I knew there would be an overhaul soon, but I was checking something with dpl and there were a handful of funnily formatted ones.. fixed + will stop. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:52, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Lion's Arch

I had an angry GW2 session today, but I've seemed to have given that anger to you. Sorry about that. :) Geekfox (talk) 04:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

nah no edit summary like that can possibly be serious :D (plus mispelt "blank".. so epic fail as far as I'm concerned). Removing blank parameters is always sensible if you've got smw running around in the background bringing up errors.
looking at Defeat Scarlet's Prime Hologram before the defenses activate, I think the event infobox needs some kind of override for the parent of the "location" parameter so that we can move the event into Category:Lion's Arch (Enemy Controlled) events. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 10:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
misspelled*--Relyk ~ talk < 00:35, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
misspelt looks retarded. - 11:15, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

As per the "only one infobox per page rule, Reinforced Harpoon of Earth

As you posted in ooOoo Spear's talk page, it seems Reinforced Harpoon of Earth also has a second infobox to cover its second weapon model. How do you split a page? Thank you! --Messenger (talk) 13:54, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Done - you literally make a new page with a similar title and push all the irrelevant stuff onto it. Then you add {{otheruses}} to the top of the page, and check that the "name" parameter on the infobox has been filled in to match the name of the item rather than the pagename. (Reinforced Harpoon of Earth + Reinforced Harpoon of Earth (level 68)) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

I told you

You can't query by Property:Has canonical name because it's not unique lol.

{{#ask:[[Has canonical name::Master of Ruins]]}}

World vs. World Season 1 (achievements)#Master_of_Ruins15, WvW Spring Tournament 2014 (achievements)#Master_of_Ruins9

This would be the valid query for looking up a specific achievement in an achievement category:

{{#ask:[[Has canonical name::Master of Ruins]][[Has achievement category::Daily}}

Also, achievement subobject is guaranteed to have an achievement page, so you don't need an if statement. Cheers.--Relyk ~ talk < 03:29, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

half the time, the link is completely irrelevant and imprecise. the ifeq stops it linking to some tediously long page with a one liner on the achievement.
fixed by reverting to variables. we could solve the smw problem by adding all of the relevant daily items for non-living-world stuff to Daily/List of daily achievements, and pulling subobjects only from the one page. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 08:50, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
in fairness a) one of those pages didn't exist when I checked the template, and b) the list of achievements that you gave me was incomplete. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:20, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Those sound like excuses. You're suppose to get it right the first time in spite of any issues that may occur.--Relyk ~ talk < 11:56, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

news articles

{{ArenaNet content}} and Form:ArenaNet content if you want to play around with it a little.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:56, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

I was going to post something earlier but had second thoughts. the form tended to paste in empty "{{arenanet content}}"s when I was using show changes.
Originally published at [{{{url}}} {{{title|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]{{#set:Has URL={{{url}}}}}.

Written by {{#vardefine:authors|{{#arraymap: {{{author|Author 1, Author 2, Author 3}}} |,|@@@|[[Has author::@@@]] }}}}
{{#if: {{#pos: {{#var:authors}} |,}} | {{#sub:{{#var:authors}}|0|{{#rpos:{{#var:authors}}|,}}}} and {{#sub:{{#var:authors}}|{{#expr:1+{{#rpos:{{#var:authors}}|,}}}}}} | {{#var:authors}} }} on {{#time:F d, Y|{{{date|N}}}}}.
the stupidly long bit is just figuring out the position of the last comma and replacing it with an "and".
if possible, I think that the content should be free text rather than a parameter. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
renamed it to be as awkward as possible to use. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:39, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
I think it would be fine if the list of authors didn't force a conjunction, especially if the output is of the form "Authors: X, Y" —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:52, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
meh list what relyk already had why don't you..
it doesn't need the two ArenaNet icons at the top either. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:57, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
That does seem redundant... I understand why we put it on the title line, in order to indicate that the entire page is special, so we can probably remove it from the notice. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 18:59, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
One of the reasons I'm making a single template is to possibly fix that redundancy. The notice template may be impact pages that aren't ArenaNet articles.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Wanna move {{Arenanet article}} and fix all those links while you're at it? We don't need to format what I'd consider the header (including authors) exactly like the original article, having an infobox-like header would be more fitting for a wiki. I figure we could avoid the need to code it in altogether but you did it anyways. We can end up pigeonholing the format that way like Ishmael pointed out. The content portion is actually the opposite, the goal is that the template and article will be interacted with by form so it will be a parameter rather than free text. I put it as a parameter so we can separate from any trivia, notes, and external links below the article as needed.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
no point in fixing the template name before deciding how we're presenting the recent articles with the new template, if we decide to remove one of the icons for example I might end up making two or three edits... might as well wait until we decide first. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 20:48, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Good luck!

So, hopefully you won't see this post before April 17th. But anyways: all the best of luck with your final year project!
Stay in there, and just imagine that it's a really interesting Wiki-page in need of editing! ;) Titus The Third User titus the third.png 13:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Good luck indeed! I'm going to miss your assistance with the overhaul project (this couldn't have been worse timing!), but we'll muddle through somehow. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 14:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Best of luck Alex! --W.Wolf (talk) 14:37, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Now we see where his loyalties lie. Felix Omni Signature.png 17:29, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Stop trying to get him to come back! I, for one, always hated your guts, I'm glad you're gone, and I hope you never return. Psycho Robot (talk) 18:22, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Psycho says he'll miss you, as well. 23 days to go, we believe in ya! --Ventriloquist (talk) 09:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


So... could you just not resist the siren call of the "edit" button, or did you finish your project early? Either way, glad to see you back! —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:45, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

saw the santax/konig thing going down and thought I'd better chime in. got a few more words to go, but all the data acquisition is done. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 12:45, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
He was IP editing even before removing the block :p
(ignoring the fact that sysops can edit even while blocked, hurr smart mediawiki) Vili 点 User talk:Vili 21:54, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
still, number of edits via ip over 2 weeks less than number I've made since unblocked over 24hr. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:55, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Orr: You could go somewhere else

Is there any way to use SMW to 1. create a list of all areas and all POIs in Straits of Devastation then 2. create a list of all karma merchants that are set as being located in any of the strings created in step 1? Psycho Robot (talk) 23:33, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Agent Crandle, Agent Siobhan, Arcanist Repth, Ballistician Heavyhammer, Crusader Vilborg, Grretergrret, Marksman Kamekeck, Recruit Tochacatl, Recruit Wongoo, Tactician Deathstrider [[Located in.Located in::X]] is called a "property chain". —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:57, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Damn ishmael.
{{#ask: [[Located in.Located in::Straits of Devastation]][[Has service::Karma merchant]]
| limit = 250
| ?Located in
| mainlabel = NPC
| class = table npc sortable
| default = No results dingus.
{{#ask: [[Located in.Has location type::Point of Interest]][[Located in.Located in.Located in::Straits of Devastation]][[Has service::Karma merchant]]
| limit = 250
| ?Located in
| mainlabel = NPC
| class = table npc sortable
| default = No NPC standing in POIs dingus.
--Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:58, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Alex insulted me using my own language. Truth be told I could use a taste of my own medicine. Psycho Robot (talk) 00:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
His query is wrong because you asked for all pois and areas :D--Relyk ~ talk < 00:03, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
{{#ask: [[Located in::Straits of Devastation]][[Has location type::Area]] OR [[Located in.Located in::Straits of Devastation]][[Has location type::Point of Interest]]
| limit = 250
| ?Has location type
| ?Located in
| mainlabel = Location
| sort = Has location type,Located in, Has canonical name
| class = table pve sortable
| default = No results dingus.
since you asked. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:13, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Relyk is a literalist. Anyways, is there any way to have it display the level in the table even if its empty? I tried on my sandbox but it doesn't display the npc if the level field is left blank, which it is on a few of them. Psycho Robot (talk) 00:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
{{#ask: [[Located in.Located in::Straits of Devastation]][[Has service::Karma merchant]]
| limit = 250
| ?Located in
| ?Has NPC level
| mainlabel = NPC
| class = table npc sortable
You mean like this? You can't set it as the default sort field, because that does require the property to have a value. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 01:01, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
In short, the query filters out any values missing a value for the property that you're sorting by. Some templates set an arbitrary value like 0, which won't work for this property.--Relyk ~ talk < 01:48, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

SDRH templatez

Go go more template rewriting? We will need some sort of backwards compatibility but since the existing tables usually have inaccurate totals and make our current research superfluous, we can wipe the drop tables alongside it.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:15, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

back braces

The Strong/Hearty/Enduring Back Brace items are non-standard: according to GW2DB/Guildhead, they have an item level of 33, but instead of requiring character level 31, they have no level requirement. (In general, item levels are 2 greater than the character level, I don't know why.) While I would normally protest the inclusion of these stats in the lookup templates, they are the only three basic-rarity back items (with stats) in existence, so it's not going to hurt anything. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:24, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Same for Mad Memoires, although it's fine, and the Spinal Blade Pack is also fine, but again, it won't hurt anything. I guess. :P —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:27, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

groan. I thought something fishy was up when I was looking at Mad memoires complete edition and thinking "+18" is much higher than other items of same rarity with higher req". Close shave. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 07:28, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
7zip file containing item_tb, item_rune_bonus_tb, and recipe_tb as CSV files. In order to reduce complexity, I collapsed most of the tabs from the spreadsheet into a single wide table - rune bonuses were the only thing I didn't feel like mashing in there, so they got their own table. I also skipped making a decision for attributes and instead worked out a way to derive the prefix for an item - this would be used with the level and rarity to determine the numerical values. However, per the comments above, I see that I should probably record them somewhere especially for these silly snowflakes. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 23:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
luckily I only really used the main item sheet - my last copy of the database is from may last year, so perhaps it's unsurprising that I couldn't get it to update based on those files (was highly amusing to see my pc struggle for 5 minutes). Anyway, got all the stuff displaying that I want now. thank you. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 00:32, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Trust anet to add a bunch of stuff the day after you did this for me. Guess I'll get the data from the sheet provided for psycho. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:56, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Actually, if its not too much effort, a csv file with the skins on would be much better for my purposes. (the sheet for PR is spread out over all those sheets...) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 10:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
What exactly do you need "with skins on"? (PR?) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
I was meaning the same csv file that you provided above, except with the skin ids added to it (which you have provided to Psycho Robot (PR) at User_talk:Psycho_Robot#Skins_Galore_redux. No worries though, I've got the data I need now, just uploading to google drive. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 13:44, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Ah, okay. I wouldn't have had time to do anything until right now, so you still would've gotten your own data first anyway. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 13:54, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
too many to display all of it on one wiki-page, (yes I tried) but I stuck it in a spreadsheet anyway.
I presume we're going to be adding the skin names to the infoboxes using bots, and I recall there being a problem with our naming scheme for parameters/smw properties somewhere, but not precisely what the problem was. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
Property:Has skin type, basically. It needs to be de-linked from item-level infoboxes and repurposed for the upcoming Template:Skin infobox. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 19:25, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Import "Chart" templates?

Hi Alex, I was thinking about converting my Tyrian Royalty family tree into a proper (editable) Wiki chart. But I guess I would need quite an intricate set of different Templates to manage this. This would take an extremely long time to set up manually, so I was wondering if it was possible (and desirable) to import these Chart Templates to the GW2 wiki by using the Special:Import & Special:Export functions..? Titus The Third User titus the third.png 10:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

I've done imports before, so its possible yes. Dunno how desirable that'd be though since those templates look quite awkward to use. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 11:03, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
That is one crazy amount of templates o.O poke | talk 11:06, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Sure is! :P I'm no experienced Wiki user, so I don't know the importance of all those templates or how they function. Initially I though you only needed one "Template:Chart" for the various boxes and lines ... but obviously I was wrong. Could it be an alternative to import only the most necessary ones, like a "light version" or something? Titus The Third User titus the third.png 11:28, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
They made every possible cell type (all the different line shapes/styles) a separate sub-template, that's why there are so many. Doesn't look like a light version is possible. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 12:27, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
Super akward... Tried using tables to put up a family tree, but that wasn't exactly any better. Jeez, why does everything have to be so damned cryptic on Wiki. Should have been a simpler way making this... :S If I ever feel like clawing my brains out, I'll try to make the tree on a sandbox on the real wiki instead. Don't think I'll ever get that far (after seeing how kitten complicated it is), so don't worry about the Template. Thanks anyways! :) Titus The Third User titus the third.png 14:18, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
If you can work out the code to use while previewing on Wikipedia, you could paste the wikicode into w:Special:ExpandTemplates + then copy the result back onto our wiki :P
however the result is just as horrible xD stick with the picture? ^^ -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 14:27, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
How dare you suggest that the other wiki is "the real wiki?" Shame on you :( — snogratUser Snograt signature.png 14:49, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
you read more into that than I intended. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:17, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
@Snograt: haha, I kinda saw that one coming :P
@Alex: eeeh.... In English please? :P Anyways: wasn't too hard/akward to use the Chart Template actually. Still a crazy amount of templates to import though.. Titus The Third User titus the third.png 18:16, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
  1. make the chart on wikipedia 1Yes
  2. copy the wikicode
  3. go to w:Special:ExpandTemplates
  4. paste wikicode in top box. Press OK.
  5. scroll down to the box beneath "Result". Copy all that wikicode.
  6. go to your sandbox on this wiki.
  7. edit. paste code. press save. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:21, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
2. to 7. = 1Yes Allrighty! Thanks a lot!
And then; number 8.: remove all the </tr>'s & </td>'s? XD [[User:Titus_The_Third/Tyrian_Royalty_family_tree_2|Lol wtf!?]] :P --Titus The Third User titus the third.png 20:08, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I am never, ever, ever converting another wikipedia template to be GW2W friendly. I've created {{Family tree}} + updated "User:Titus The Third/Tyrian Royalty family tree 2" for you. Takes 9 seconds to load on my crappy connection >.< works though. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 12:59, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Wow.. I don't know what to say.. Except thanks! And great job! I feel bad about putting you through all that trouble now. I presume this subject is of quite narrow interest (me and myself), so thanks a lot for your effort and again my apologies for all the trouble caused!
P.S. I loved the "Credits" part :P.. Looks like the Wikipedia sysops could learn a great deal of "simplification skills" from you! Titus The Third User titus the third.png 15:47, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
P.S.#2: I also love how you created the "defining characters" as its own section. Couldn't understand why the Wikipedia chart made this so damn complicated by requesting you to put it on each single row! Amazing work. Respect! Titus The Third User titus the third.png 15:53, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
They don't have all the tools we have (arraymap + variables in particular), but in fairness they had a few clever ideas like comparing uppercase/lowercase symbols to figure out whether or not to use a template. Thanks, no problem and good luck :P -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:55, 24 April 2014 (UTC)