Talk:Firstborn

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Firstborn[edit]

So. Could it be a social class among the Sylvari? Thought? --I AmLegion talk 17:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

that'd be cool, hopefully soon they will give us an interview about the social classes.--♥Icyyy♥ 11:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Firstborn as a social class (that you can choose at character creation)? That just sounds odd at best. I'm tempted to say that all player characters will be firstborn along with Caithe just to make them adults, playing as a teenager would be weird. Though, it is a bit unfortunate just how little we know about sylvari. We know there's an "evil" Nightmare Court, 4 seasons by time of birth that affect looks, that their racial skills will have the most healing orientation of the 5 races, and that's about it, we don't even know the exact definition of a firstborn. Hopefully they'll be the first race to be discussed in-depth. User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 13:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Well interviews have stated that the Sylvari are adults when they "awaken from the dream"... not teens. So I assume that we will witness our Sylvari characters emerging from the tree at the beginning of the game (which would be awesome, btw). --User Phnzdvn sig.pnghnzdvn 13:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
That would be awesome. :D So I guess all the teens are just sleeping in their flower buds. Y'know, that's some carefree child care. :P But yeah, I don't think 'firstborn' will be a social class of any kind, but who knows... User Rose Of Kali SIG.jpgRose Of Kali 14:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I don't think it will be either, I expect our characters to emerge from the tree young and naive. --User Phnzdvn sig.pnghnzdvn 14:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
But then the Sylvari would have the shortest biography of all races. No. I believe that Sylvari characters will have already some experience in the real world. --I AmLegion talk 14:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
That's kind of the point though, that they are new to the world and mostly inexperienced. However, I do remember reading in an interview that they had a bad first experience with the Asura who (typically for them) wanted to use the Sylvari as experiment fodder. So they do have at least one "burnt hand" type of event in their very short history. Arshay Duskbrow 14:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The sylvari biography will most likely be about one's views on the world and not their personal history. There could also be multiple introduction cinematics based on one's heritage and social class. If so, you could have a firstborn sylvari talking about when s/he was born and didn't know what was going on, or you can have a middle ground sylvari talking about being guided by the firstborn, or you can have a "just been born" sylvari which is learning everything others know via the DoD the instant they're born - how chaotic those thoughts must be. :D Likewise, with other races, the heritage and social class could affect the intro cinematics. It won't be like GW1 with one singular introduction and one singular ending. GW2 will have multiple differences throughout the game. -- Konig/talk 19:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

It was stated somewhere that our Sylvari are all firstborn and have been in the world for 25 years, I don't think there are any other kind. Taros 21:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Where was that? Source, please? Also, It did say in one of the recent interveiws (I think that french one) that they inherited memories and knowledge from the Pale Tree Thing. Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 22:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Is it not true that the Sylvari are born with the knowledge of their kind? So the first born would not be the wisest...but the most naive...and the most recent born (whatever the generational number)be the most wise... Book 11:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Right in a way; the knowledge that the firstborn gained was passed on to future generations of sylvari as instinctive knowledge. E.g., wielding a sword is something current sylvari know how to do naturally, but only because older generations learned how to do it first. They don't have knowledge of that action in the sense that the sylvari who learned how to wield a sword do/does because it's simply an instinctive reaction.-- Shew 11:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
All depends on how you define "wise" - the Firstborn are wisest in that they have the most experience in the world, but they were born the most naive of all sylvari. The current sylvari know what they know only due to the previous generations and as such are naive themselves, with no experience to go off of. Think of it like a grandparent telling their life story to a baby and the baby actually understanding and remembering it all - the baby only knows about it, but it hasn't experienced it and as such isn't wise, just knowledgeable. -- Konig/talk 22:17, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Chronology[edit]

The language in the sourced documents--the Guru post and the blog post--is a bit nebulous in establishing a chronological order of departure. If there is another source, it would be helpful to have that included. Redshift 01:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Position in sylvari society[edit]

Where is the source for this part: Although they are the closest thing to rulers that exist within the sylvari race, the respect for them comes solely from their wisdom and time spent in the world. It seems like original research. 122.111.184.90 05:01, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/ "The firstborn are the closest thing the sylvari have to rulers, yet the respect they command comes solely from their wisdom and time spent in the world." Section The Grove, third paragraph first sentence. -User Eive Windgrace Harbinger of the Deceiver.png 05:08, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

3 firstborn names unknown?[edit]

Three firstborn not yet revealed? Could Killeen be firstborn? Ramei Arashi 03:12, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

No. She isn't. 199.126.37.144 05:30, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
I believe Killeen said she was 4 years old. 213.166.207.170 06:57, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Ah I didn't remember that. Ramei Arashi 20:10, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Amaranda[edit]

If the dialogue in A Different Dream is transcribed correctly, then Amaranda the Lonesome is one of the firstborn. I am referring to the line, "She understands its nature more than any other mystic of firstborn". Does anyone have the means to quickly check? --Santax (talk · contribs) 23:00, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

About the Luminaries[edit]

There's a logical contradiction in canon:

  • Trahearne is the oldest of all sylvari
  • Luminaries are the oldest of their cycle.
  • Treahearne is not a luminary.

The point of the article is to show the importance of the Firstborn to the sylvari, including the fact that the sylvari have a special term for the first born of the Firstborn in a given cycle. However, it's a distraction to those concepts to get hung up on whether we are talking about the first four, the first five, or #s 2-5, when we don't really know why there's this inconsistency in the canon. It could be that ANet failed to check its own notes, it could be that Treahearne is not considered to be the oldest of his cycle for this particular situation, it could even be that to the sylvari, this isn't a contradiction.

I recommend that we keep the article's intro simple and stick with the well-worded {{anomaly}} (under Notes) to cover the gory details.

In other words, the main idea is that eldest sylvari are special. Which specific ones are the most special is adequately covered by Notes and by the list of sylvari in the article. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 09:00, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Luminaries are not defined as "the oldest of their cycle". The contradiction comes from the fact that the Luminaries each claim to have been born when:
  • Aife: "as the sun rose on the first dawn of our race."
  • Niamh: "at the zenith of the first day of our race."
  • Kahedins: "as the sun first set on our race."
  • Malomedies: "on the first night of the sylvari race."
This is purely their own words (during the first and last story instance of chapter 1 - excluding the tutorial of course), and not part of "what a luminary is." Depending on how you interpret the line, it could be that Trahearne was born (if Dawn) after the sunrise, and thus Aife is fifth, or (if Dusk) after the sunset, thus Kahedins was fifth, and neither would be lying since they'd still be born at the first dawn/dusk for the race, whereas Trahearne was born just after on the first day of the race.
The point I've been making with ensuring to note that Trahearne is not a luminary (as there are only four) is that not all luminaries are the first of each cycle.
I'll give the article one final rewording, removing the false note of "the eldest of each cycle is a luminary" part by just denoting that the sylvari race are guided by the luminaries, whom are all firstborn. Konig 18:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi there! Just dropping into the conversation after noticing Trahearne was listed as a luminary and wondering why there were two dusk luminaries checked in the article. I'm assuming this should be changed still? I didn't want to just edit since there was discussion but it's been quite some time. Industria (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Recently Revealed Firstbonr[edit]

It appears as though we know the names of at least two more Firstborn. From the Seeds of Truthe release we meet Wynne (probably named after the GW2W editor) and Ainne (another wiki editor). I think Wynne is Night. 58.106.130.138 19:08, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Wynne is night. Ainne is just a Mender, nothing hints to her being a firstborn as I saw. Plus if she was, she'd have been at the gathering - Riannoc was dead already (and this should have been known, despite Melomedies and Caithe apparently not), and the other two missing are simply unknown to players.
So now we know all three Night Firstborn. Konig
Also, while The late Wynn was a well known wiki editor, Wynne is a Welsh name, fitting with the common sylvari naming scheme. The name means blessed, white, fair n which matches Wynne's in-game model. Konig 21:02, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Also, Riannoc wasn't the first to die. He was the first (only?) Firtborn to die. Talk to Malomedes in the first instance, he says 3 (nameless?) Secondborn died and refers to Riannoc being away. 107.219.56.95 03:30, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Malomedies merely states worry about Riannoc who has been away for a long time - basically, Malomedies doesn't know whether Riannoc's state of being. This doesn't mean he's still alive at the point - just that Malomedies doesn't know he's dead (or alive). Of course, this itself is a retcon as both Caithe and the Pale Tree stated that Riannoc's death was felt throughout the Dream (and affected it), and it questions how they know Riannoc died first. There's also the possibility that only Malomedies doesn't know (when Riannoc's death is first canonically mentioned, Malomedies was completely out of it in a near-death due to having been experimented on by the asura), but that begs the question: why wasn't he told? But again, nothing outright states Riannoc wasn't first to die. Konig 05:55, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Riannoc/Dagonet's cycles?[edit]

So I could've sworn that there was some dialogue in the game, either with Dagonet himself or with one of the other Firstborn, that confirmed Dagonet's status as a Dawn bloom. Even if it's not explicitly stated ingame, from the description given of Dawn cycle sylvari's natural diplomacy, and his status as an apparent diplomat in Divinity's Reach it can be construed that he is a Dawn bloom. Likewise with Riannoc, it was stated that he was "valiant as the shining sun" and was idealistic and direct, clearly characteristic of a Noon sylvari.

Have we gotten any further confirmation on either of these from Word Of God/ingame dialogues? --Gyllbane (talk) 09:26, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Not as far as I or Titus were able to find, hence why they're not specified. Though Dawn and Noon is most likely, given the other two cycles have all Firstborn known. Konig 17:24, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

A reference to the biblical 12 Apostles?[edit]

Or just a coincidence? --210.186.163.10 23:04, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not a direct reference, but sylvari lore borrows from biblical sources along with the fantasy themes.--Relyk ~ talk < 23:07, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Riannoc's profession[edit]

Riannoc is described in the page as a 'warrior', yet I'm pretty sure that in the Secrets in the Earth instance, story instance, Riannoc uses guardian skills. Might be worth having someone confirm this and update if correct. Draxynnic (talk) 12:07, 14 January 2017 (UTC)