Talk:Control effect

I've never heard "control effect" This is just because stability says in the tooltip? Because crowd control functions differently in terms of what removes stacks of defiant.--Relyk 08:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

They're essentially the same, except for Sink and Float, but that might as well been an oversight or a bug. Also, AFAIK, stability does prevent Basilisk Venom and Deep Freeze from working, so why are they listed down there? Mediggo 16:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Definition

Reading the pages on Control, Control effect, Interrupt and Stability proved a bit confusing. I can't remember the term "Control Effect" being used in-game. Where does the definition come from?

I ask because many conditions, besides Fear, can be considered "control effects", such as immobilize, blind (makes you miss), chill (slows you down), cripple, weakness (make you "half-miss" and dodge less), confusion (forces you to use your skills less), etc...

The common factor seems to be that "control" is "hindering the opponent from doing what they intend to do or can do" or "forcing them do something". But the definition used here is extremely specific:

• Disable all skills
• Prevent movement (willful movement, at least)

Of the conditions, Fear is listed here as a control effect, but not immobilize or cripple (during which skills can still be used), so the above 2 conditions of the definition seem to have been strictly applied in making that list. Hence my question about where this definition comes from.

Stability, for example, doesn't mention the words "control effects", it just lists a number of effects (and Pull, Ice block and Petrification, which are listed here, are not among them).

Also, interrupting an opponent is clearly related to control. Can only these "control effects" interrupt, or are there skills which don't apply these effects, but which can still interrupt?

One last thought: can "condition duration" affect any of the listed "control effect" durations? (All those listed except launch, pull and push, are not instantaneous, i.e. they have durations). If it does, aren't they conditions as well? --Alad 03:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

"Control effect" was conceived as a catch-all for the gray-icon effects (Stun, Daze, etc.) that are not conditions (I don't know why Fear is listed here, it's a condition, so it shouldn't be). Look at how the navbox on this page is arranged.

"Control" or "crowd control" is a more general term that covers all game mechanics that, as you put it, "hinder the opponent".

The Condition Duration|Condition duration attribute only affects conditions, not control effects. —Dr Ishmael 03:58, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I think Fear was probably added because it is listed with the effects which Stability prevents. It's clear that some of these "control effects" are also conditions. (BTW, I searched a bit in-game and saw the term "control effects" used to explain Stability on the guardian's "Stand Your Ground" and Hallowed Ground skill tooltips. The elementalist's Tempest Defense trait lists the same 8 effects and calls them "disabled".) Creating a category of effects based on the icon color does make sense, but I guess we should know what it is that they have in common. Something apart from them just being control effects (since Fear is listed with them), such as not being able to control their duration, perhaps. On the other hand, a Control Effects category doesn't necessarily only include the effects listed by Stability. Can these grey effect icons, and hence this page be describing "control effects that are not conditions"? (PS: According to the Basilisk Venom page, Petrify seems to be a standard stun effect). --Alad 08:01, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Breaks Stun

It is mentioned on the Stun break page that if a skill Breaks Stun, then it also breaks "control effects", without details. Does anyone have a list of the effects broken with "Breaks Stun"? I see mentions of it working with Knockdown, but no complete list. It would be interesting to put the list on this page and other pages such as Stun, Stun break and the page of every effect it can break. --Alad 21:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Any with duration: knockdown, daze, sink, float, and fear. Most launch and some push and pull effects include a knockdown at the end of the movement. —Dr Ishmael 22:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Taunt?

Taunt seems to be missing from the list. --69.249.29.124 16:23, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

1 Done. --BryghtShadow (talk) 18:58, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

"soft" cc

I moved the soft cc section under "See also" because they are not, mechanically, control effects, so they should not be in the main section (even as a subsection). They are merely related, which is why they fit best in a "See also" section.

Also, the term "soft cc" is a pretty obscure one, in my experience. It certainly isn't notable enough for its own article, but I don't feel it's notable enough for a line in the intro here, either. —Dr Ishmael 17:43, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

We can decide what to do later, once more info is released concerning the softer side of cc (i.e. See if there is a mechanical backbone that is built to define CC). G R E E N E R 17:52, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't think the term "soft cc" is used all that often but since it has been brought up, might as well put it on the control effect page, where it fits the most. I don't see the need to separate it further from this page since the "see also" section is widely used as a connection between other articles, not as a filler for an existing one. I just think it looks unfitting to have it hidden away in the last section of the page. —Ventriloquist 22:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Petrified and Freeze don't trigger traits. With that in mind, I spun them off into their own section, and took the soft control with them. This way they're not "hidden away" at the bottom of the page, but they're also not part of the main listing. —Dr Ishmael 13:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

After reading Greener's link, I'm thinking... split everything up, but do it like this:

• Disable - basically move this page and make it relate directly to the trait mechanics that say "disable" (i.e. the "not-soft" control effects). I've never liked the term "control effect" very much, it lacks the directness of "boon" and "condition"; "disable" feels much better in that company.
• Crowd control - new page, covering everything, with "Disable" being a subset of this.

If anyone feels that a split is still unnecessary, then at least move the article to "Crowd control" and restructure it into "Disables" and "Other crowd control". —Dr Ishmael 13:44, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

I think there's room on the page for both groups; they just need to be reorganized. The lead intro seems to state that CC = Disable, where I agree with you that Disable ⊂ CC, though the strongest subset. "Control effects" almost seems like a category name, and should be replaced by "Crowd Control", which is the ubiquitous for the concept. G R E E N E R 19:36, 16 August 2015 (UTC)