Talk:Bundle

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The most awesome weapon type. If GW2 has item and weapon spell equivalents, they will be filled with win. Things like the Spear of Archemorus will be so much more useful. Though unlikely, it would be cool to pick up dead people in PvP and throw them (or I guess you could carry them to safety *sigh*) and/or use them as shields to guard against those leet warriors shooting arrows through a wall of fire. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted charr sig.PNG (τѧιк) 01:27, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Oil Spill? U?--Knighthonor 02:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
given some of the hints they've dropped about how abundant these will be, and that they said at least one profession will focus largely on them, i'm almost afraid how long this list will get after release. though i suppose the mechanics prolly wont care if the wood plank came from a barrel or a gate, so i guess they're going to lob these into broad categories. so maybe it wont get quite that long, but still, it should be fun watching ppl trying to find and list all the types of e-weaps there are.Akbaroth 08:33, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Since [[Barstool]] is an EWeap, maybe Beermug is too? (See the cartoon in the article on the 'site.) Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 23:44, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm fairly certain I remember them mentioning the mug as a weapon in that article. Eive_Windgrace 00:07, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it was in this. :) Speaking of which, shouldn't we have a spot with the comics on here too? We have concept art and screenshots from the site, and these comics often include information or could be used for citation; should we make a category for them (who knows how many more they may end up making)? --AmannelleUser Amannelle Me.jpg 00:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh wait... CAN we put that on here? It's copyrighted to Scott Kurtz. --AmannelleUser Amannelle Me.jpg 00:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Someone could always just go on his forum and ASK HIM. He does have his own site y'know. Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 00:57, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
What happened to Mug? Ramei Arashi 16:37, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Got mugged.--NeilUser Neil2250 sig icon5 Anti.png 17:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
Mug is mentioned on the combat article, so it should be listed here. Ramei Arashi 03:12, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
One thing that I haven't seen made clear yet, is whether we will be able to retain environmental weapons in inventory. Say I pick up a pick (pun!) lying on the ground, can I put it in my backpack for later use or do I have to put it back down before I can use my sword again? Arcfire 13:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Strange-Lookin' List[edit]

I was looking at the list of known weapons, and suddenly thought 'What would someone just randomly clicking around think of this? Or someone who hasn't read anything else?!' I mean, the words 'Egg' and 'Catapult' and 'Barsttol' are in the same place... Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 19:34, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

That will probably make it more interesting for the reader! Imagine yourself facing Shiro or the Lich with a barstool! It's definitely different then the crowbar and the torch we mostly see in rpg's and fps's alike. Why can't the goggles be used to deal 1 blunt damage? Why not?! Cause it could! The goggles, do nothing! Ge4ce 07:21, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Extra lol points for Ge4ce.... Anyways, I'm sure once we get closer to the release of GW2 this page will have much more information on it, and if not we can just add random things like Blade of Grass, house, or pool cues to the page to make it look well thought out. Eive Talk Windgrace 07:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
If Blade Of Grass was available, I'd just use that ALL THE TIME. Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 17:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Rabbit ???[edit]

So... rabbits. You can pick em up and they change your skills. This is a definition of an environmental weapon. Rabbits don't sound much like weapons... but who knows. Do we need to think of a more general name rather than 'weapon' or do we just rewrite the definition to be a bit more broad? -- Aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 23:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

I find it weird too but the word comes directly from Anet, I don't think we can change it. Chriskang 23:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
I guess we'll have to see; if these environmental interactions extend to sitting in chairs, drinking beer, holding bunnies, and possibly even food, then maybe it will have to change from weapon to... I don't know, "item"? "Thing"? Any other synonyms? :P --AmannelleUser Amannelle Me.jpg 23:37, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
I'll write a different definition which emphasizes the skill change rather than the weapon aspect then and we can see what we need to do with this later. I just realised that these are like an evolution of the bundle items in GW1. :) -- Aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 23:48, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Where'd you get rabbits from? 0.0 --Unending fear 23:48, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
here. :) "we have an early event in the game that has you picking up rabbits. You’re holding this rabbit and it actually changes your skills." --AmannelleUser Amannelle Me.jpg 23:51, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
"Come and face me, then, noble opponent! Draw thy weapon and...and...uh......is...is that a rabbit?" --Random Knight. Zolann The IrreverentUser Zolann The Irreverent Mysterious Summoning Stone.png 01:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Rabbits don't sound like weapons? Maybe you're thinking of the wrong kind of rabbit. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк) 18:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
One thing that I haven't seen made clear yet, is whether we will be able to retain environmental weapons in inventory. Say I pick up a pick (pun!) lying on the ground, can I put it in my backpack for later use or do I have to put it down before I can use my sword again? Arcfire 13:04, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
There's no need to post the same thing multiple times, especially on the same page. You might be able to stow some away, you might not. You're obviously not going to be able to put a trebuchet in your pocket, though. -~=Ϛρѧякγ User Sparky, the Tainted guided sig.png (τѧιк) 17:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
"AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRG!" The Alice 18:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Races?[edit]

I remember watching a video with an interview with Eric Flannum who said something about races having their own set of skills when interacting with siege weapons....Now that I can't actually find it, I'm wondering if that interview was actually in reference to different professions having their own take on the weapons. Also, there's a note on there talking about how environmental weapons get destroyed after use. Though I have a vague feeling that this has something to do with the leg on the barstool, that particular information should be fixed. As it stands, the note also alludes to the fact that you can destroy rabbits too, which would be sad :S (Xu Davella 15:50, 1 September 2010 (UTC))

I'm pretty sure different abilities with environmental weapons was profession rather than race based. They've always talked about the rock where the warrior can throw it and the elementalist can turn it into a meteor. It was mentioned again recently in one of the gamescom video interviews. I've never heard mention of race based environmental stuff - but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I'll see if I can find the reference for the environmental weapon destruction. It was in reference to the temporary rock/branch/bees weapons you can get so we should probably clarify that. Mortars and cannons in the shatterer fight and steeleye span seem to available to use whenever you want. Rabbits, I'm not even sure that they're an environmental weapon - they're here because when you interact you get a new skill bar which is our current definition of environmental weapon. I saw mention of 'bundle items' somewhere in the gamescom information so maybe they're technically one of those. I heard mention of a bug that the bunny could actually be used as a weapon. That is pretty funny. :) -- Aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 22:52, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Nav?[edit]

I've made a possible nav here. What do people think about using it? Aqua (T|C) 04:47, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm assuming that there'd be a massive list of environmental weapons when game is out, so I wouldn't go for it. (Xu Davella 08:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC))
Navs like this or this come to mind about that argument. Aqua (T|C) 16:07, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I am inclined to say that an environmental weapons nav is not as collected as diguises and historical content. Environmental weapons are wide in use and effect. Why would someone want to navigate from a bucket to a turret? - Infinite - talk 16:17, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Too many I think for a nav. It is possible when we know more that there could be logical divisions which would allow for navs over a subset. -- aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 00:13, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Unnamed EW?[edit]

As you can see in the thief videos, when you use the steal skill on a monster you get an unnamed environmental weapon. How are we supposed to document that? Add the information on the monster page (including skill bar that you get after the steal)? Create a page with a player-made name? Other ideas? Chriskang 02:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Define unnamed. Is there no way to check what you stole at all? If so <subject> <object> would be my best idea at this point. I.E: Moa feathers. - Infinite - talk
Exactly what you described: select a moa, click the "steal" skill, the left part of your skill bar will roll (like when you switch weapons), your weapon skills are replaced by some environmental skills and voila. There isn't even a way to know what you have stolen from your target. In the case of moas, you know that you have just stolen feathers because the first environmental skill is "throw feathers", but it might not always be that clear. Chriskang 02:43, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I hope that most are clear and the ones that aren't clear may be cleared up by ArenaNet... - Infinite - talk 02:58, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
I think that goes for pretty much all the skills they've written so far, unless the intent is for us to find out for ourselves which would be a wiki-nightmare. (Xu Davella 03:34, 6 March 2011 (UTC))

The Skills[edit]

Have any of these weapon been clearly seen in any of the demos and if so is there footage of this? I would think maybe a elementalist's conjure would have. --Ian8766 21:37, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

one of these weapons has been shown I think and I'll search for a vid. --you like that don't you..The Holy Dragons 21:47, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Here is the bucket of water in use.--Saxon 21:54, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
And here is the same in HD ;) Chriskang 22:02, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Thats no exactly what I had in mind XD but thanks lol lol. Btw, in another video I saw the other day someone pick up something that appeared to be a vace and you could throw it or just go up and hit them.--Ian8766 22:32, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
I think that means Link has escaped his cage again...where's gonnon when you need him?--Elemental Phantom 22:40, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
I found a video where a guy uses a pole of a weapon rack. Idk how to add it to here though. At sec 51 [1]--Ian8766 20:26, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Bundle[edit]

From the Rune of the Engineer effects and dev comments and the UI [2] (6:21) - Are Engineer kits considered Bundles? (6/14/2012) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.94.110 (talk).

I don't know about that, but isn't this the same thing as an environmental weapon? —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:04, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Wow, that video is from last August. Kits don't work like that anymore - instead of a "drop bundle" icon to the left of the toolbar (like environmental weapons), the kit skill itself flips to a "stow kit" icon. I wouldn't think of engineer kits counting as bundles anyway, since they can't actually be dropped on the ground. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 00:08, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
Engineer kits -are- bundles. Try this yourself: Equip any kit, jump, and press `. You will get the message "You cannot drop bundles while in the air!" Not to mention, Rune_of_the_Engineer. They have been bundles from day 1. So just might want to add that to the page. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.65.156.104 (talk).

Static Enviromental Weapons[edit]

Should we create a new page, or section inside the page to group the enviromental weapons that can't be moved? Such as the Asura and Hylek turrets, the trebuchet and others? Lokheit 20:36, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes I think we need two categories : static ew and skill-generated ew. --Till034 20:54, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Indestructible EW?[edit]

I found a miner's pick today and apparently it never expires until you either grab another item, swap weapons, drop it, or if you enter a skill form (such as death shroud). I used this bad mammajamma for nearly a half hour, it has 3 chained attacks even thoguh it doesn't specify it, the last in the chain is a pretty powerful aoe. I don't know if this was a glitch or intended this weapon be so strong and virtually indestructible. Anyone else found anything like this? Nay the One and Only User Nay the One and Only SIG.jpg 22:10, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

source of term[edit]

I know this is pretty much futile at this point, but do we have any in-game source for the term "environmental weapon"? Everything I remember (hint, Rune of the Engineer, the "Drop bundle" button, etc.) always uses the term "bundle." I know that EW was the term used by Anet during development, but when everything in-game uses a different term, I would think we'd want to use the in-game term. Not to mention, "bundle" is a much simpler and broader term to use (and it would fit in Template:Skill infobox much better). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 15:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not strictly opposed, but there's lots more of these cases if we're going to go down that route. I don't think soldier/adventurer/scholar is used to group the professions anywhere in-game, and "dynamic event" doesn't appear anywhere, in fact when you mouseover the event assist (I don't think that term appears anywhere either) the tooltip says "World Event". A hint just calls them "events". I see "environment objects" is a hint as well, which also seems to refer to environmental weapons. I remember a lot of discussion about using the term renown heart, but not how official it is. Manifold User Manifold Neptune.jpg 01:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
Why did the discussion die. I don't have a problem switching to bundle. It's the official term for engineer kits, conjure weapons, and banners, which all function as environmental weapons. The name itself is misleading because not all the weapons are obtained in the environment. And it just sounds horrible to keep saying "Environmental weapon" in prose.--Relyk ~ talk > 07:32, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
another thing to note is traits using the word bundle such as improvisation. lumpy (talk) 00:28, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Bundle infobox[edit]

So I was attempting to document Ash Legion Spy Kit and I came to realise that the way that environmental weapons/bundles are documented is rather confusing, and I think we should change it. Right now, we stick them on the same article as the object or consumable where it is obtained, but this sort of breaks down when the bundle is retrieved from both objects and consumables, like Drake Egg, planks, metal bars, and others. Oh also we should finally ditch the term "environmental weapon" as its not used anywhere in game that I can see.

What I propose is the following: we create a new infobox, bundle infobox, that is intended to be used for the actual bundle, along with its accompanying skillset, that goes into the players hands. It'd include a gallery of the bundle being held, and would automatically categorize it as a bundle. In the case of ice bow, there would be three articles related to it: Conjure Frost Bow, the spell; Ice Bow, the object; and Ice Bow, the bundle. In the case of planks, there would be a litany of articles about the various consumables and objects that give you the plank bundle, and one article about the plank bundle where the skills are described.

Lastly, to tie this up in a nice neat bow, we should add fields to the item infobox for consumables and the object infobox for environmental objects which basically says "Gives Bundle: Bunde name", perhaps along with [[Property:Gives bundle]] for querying sources for a bundle on the bundle page. If someone else takes charge and makes the templates themselves, I will document them as I go about the world on my journey to document karma items, loads of which give bundles. Psycho Robot (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

unfortunately many pages directly use "category:environmental weapons" + so my quick fix this morning was less effective than it could have been, but I'll get this started by moving it to "Bundle". no comment on creating 3 pages for each item with a new infobox. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 09:37, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
It wouldn't have to be three pages for each bundle. Rather, what I suggest is just creating one extra page for each bundle. Right now bundles are combined in either the consumable item page or the environmental object page, but as I pointed out, the logic in that breaks down a lot for things like drake egg where it comes from a ton of different places. I keep running into issues where this turns up a problem. I just investigated Forager Hitkiti and the items he sells, and every one of them was a bundle that came from loads of different places. The harpy feathers give the feather bundle which also comes from moa feathers, an environmental object.
Not only that, but disambiguating between bundle-giving consumables, bundle-giving objects, bundle-giving skills, and the bundles themselves would clean up the stolen skills part of the wiki. Right now loads of bundle skills are labeled as a "thief stolen skill", but the reality is that the theif just stole a bundle, which gives skills. So instead of saying "stolen skills", it should just be "stolen bundles". There'd be a lot less overlap this way, and it'd be much easier to document everything. Psycho Robot (talk) 03:27, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Bundles are a type of object. The only issue is bundles that are destroyed when dropped where we don't have a name available. The best place for bundles given by items is simply on the item page. Stolen skills are part of the Steal profession mechanic, they are not related to bundle skills by any mechanic, only having similar skill properties. Mashing them together is silly. Blame anet for sticking the bundle mechanics into so many aspects of the game.--Relyk ~ talk < 04:13, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, Relyk, but there is a very important distinction between objects - which appear in predefined locations, can have health bars, and can be interacted with - and bundles - which usually appear pseudo-randomly within a certain area, although they can also be player-generated; never have health bars; and can be picked up, at which point they either override your skill bar or create an item in your inventory.
However, you are correct that stolen skills are not based on bundles, because they do not suppress your equipped weapons (this is why engineer kits are bundles, and also because you get the message "Bundles cannot be dropped while in the air" if you attempt to stow a kit while jumping). —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 06:01, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Alright--Relyk ~ talk < 06:46, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I figured that since they were identical to a bunch of bundle skills that they could be considered bundles, but I can see the argument that they're not. So we can ditch the idea of making thieves steal bundles instead of skills, however I still think creating a bundle infobox for actual bundles would make documentation a lot easier and clearer. Psycho Robot (talk) 21:57, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Ranger Pig Pet Family F2-skill bundles?[edit]

Since every pig type pet for ranger creates an environmental weapon/bundle should that be included on this page, or at the very least referenced with a link? Nay the One and Only User Nay the One and Only SIG.jpg 00:34, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Good eye. It's been added. G R E E N E R 02:10, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Bundle v Environmental weapons[edit]

I have two questions about this. One, correct me if I'm wrong here, but as far as I can tell, it appears we're supposed to change things from "environmental weapon" to "bundle" based on the fact the page was moved here and the object infobox automatically makes "environmental weapon" be "bundle". Two, if this is the case, what about objects that are weapons that you can't just pick up and walk away with, ie basically everything in Category:Static environmental weapons and some of the WvW siege weapons? I feel like since they're static and can't be moved, they actually be considered as environmental weapons and not bundles and would like a separate page (maybe the same as the category's name to avoid potential confusion?) to differentiate them from bundles. - Doodleplex 20:24, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Bundle, bundle, bundle, please. For 'static' objects, I would be fine with static environmental objects, but objects you can pick up that are currently listed as environmental weapons should be moved/changed to bundles. Bundles are listed and referenced in the game, whereas env. object is a much less supported term. —Ventriloquist 21:55, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
Alright, I will start fixing what is still labeled as an environmental weapon to bundle. Should we have a page to define what static environmental weapons means so people don't get confused(since not everybody checks talk pages)? - Doodleplex 22:10, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
I think a redirect could be created to a section on bundle. I can write one up if you don't feel up to it. —Ventriloquist 17:55, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
As I have been working on these things the last few months, I've seen that the distinction between bundles and environmental weapons is more or less arbitrary. In making my own determination, I've focused on the "environmental" part.
  1. If it is something you interact with directly in the game, and it gives skills, it's an environmental weapon.
  2. If it is something you get from an object, npc, or consumable, or it has no skills, it's a bundle.
  3. If it is a bundle that can be dropped and picked back up, the picked up item is an environmental weapon. You don't always pick up the same item you put down, so take note.
  4. If the environmental weapon forces you to stay in place while you use it, it's a static environmental weapon.
  5. If you change form by using it, it's probably a transformation.
These are for classification. Occasionally, you get a square peg that fits in the round hole, like the Pipe Organs being Static Environmental Weapons. You may not whack someone over the head with one, but it fits the template.
There are a few places where we have both a bundle and an environmental weapon article for the same item name. There's also a couple where we have multiple item bundles (planks, hylek poison pots, boulders, etc.). So, the field is pretty messy.
Whatever route you decide to take this one, I'll need to stay appraised. SarielV 20 x 20px 15:49, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Usually I'd agree, but the game clearly references 'bundles' (drop bundle button, and a few others), so I think we should stick with that. Environmental weapon is sort of an awkward name, too. —Ventriloquist 17:55, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
Not sure if it's entirely applicable, but it's maybe worth noting that the entire skill set is always dependent on bundles. The weapons you equip; actually just another set of bundles you can store in your inventory. Legends for revs? Just a filter on the bundles you have. So I think sticking with "Bundles" is a safe bet. -Darqam 17:59, 21 March 2017 (UTC)