Talk:Kralkatorrik/Archive 1

any1 got any source's of what the article says?? cause i never heard of it ^Teo^ 22:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I think The Movement of the World -- br12 • (talk) • 22:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

maybe a note and a link to that page then?? ^Teo^ 22:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I thought "Drakkar" was the water dragon? --Lou-Saydus 22:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

hmmm.. dunno rly ^Teo^ 22:28, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

nope.. Ancient Dragons this page says that it's 2 seperat dragons ^Teo^ 22:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Drakkar would be an ice dragon imo. -- Armond Warblade 22:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, even though all the ice melts. :P Lord Belar 00:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Drakkar can be D-Man, Water Dragon can be Scuba Steve. Problem solved. You hear me, ANet? Calor (t) 00:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Scuba Steve! Damn you! I'm also somewhat confused as to the line between Water and Ice as far as Guild Wars goes, since the Water school of magic covers all Ice-related magic, and indeed the damage is simply "Cold" damage for the majority of it all. We won't know till more info or GW2 is released. --Cjad the Nord 20:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Scuba Steve? Why not Steve Zissou? :P --MageMontu 19:58, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Where does it say they need to be elemental dragons? Ivokk 02:56, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Is Grothmar really the Water Dragon?

It is just an image, but... there are large ships, perhaps frigates or something similar, in the OCEAN near the dragon. This does not fit the part of the dragon we see in the Charr homelands, it is merely a lake. The undead creatures of Orr on the other hand are ruled by an undead dragon, and as far as we know they have a navy. So either the image is just incorrect or the water dragon is not necessarily to be found in the charr homelands, but in the sea roughly south of Kryta/Tarnished Coast, where the sunken kingdom of Orr is located. --Longasc 22:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That's clearly not an awaken dragon you're referring to, as there's grass growing on him. If it's the undead dragon, he wouldn't have grass on him and wouldn't be above surface. The reason for the boats would be that it's concept art, not an actual image of how it will look. Very rarely does concept art actually end up as a whole in the game. Also, since the image you're referring to is concept art for GW:EN and not GW2, it can't really be the undead dragon as he's not visible in EotN. — Galil 15:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I see your point about the concept art and it is good. I have a gripe with the names. People call the dragon Grothmar because he is in Grothmar Wardowns - just like the "Drakkar" in Drakkar Lake. Drakkar means nothing else than Dragon, was used for longships with a dragonhead as well. We do not know the names of the dragons except Primordus, so far the names are nicknames, both Drakkar and Grothmar. They sound similar and very likely to be their names, agreed. But we are jumping a bit to conclusions based on assumptions, but actually it does not hurt. I just do not like it, but with only one article as source that states not much, we cannot do much more than that. Except waiting for more input. --Longasc 22:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't mind nicknames based on explorable areas being used, as long as they are placed between inverted commas, so at least that way the reader knows it is a nickname and NOT the actual name. --Santax (talk · contribs) 10:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

You guys keep confusing this water dragon with the undead dragon of Orr, This guy "Scuba Steve" and the Undead Dragon of Orr are different. "Scuba Steve" flies south corrupting the land...the undead dragon of orr rises from beneth the sunken subcontient of Orr and rises it agin, enslaving the corsair navy that was exploiting the remains of Orr for bounty...the desert dragon goes and cuts of comminucation bewteen elona and tryia(contient)  !!!check the movement of the world article!!!

In EotN, it looks like has has layers of scales(?), and in the concept art, he's clearly in a different area with no layers, just spikes. But it is concept art, so you never know. 24.7.141.45 00:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

is he really going to be that huge in GW2? that would be crazy

go to the oposite side leave form doomlore and walk towrds it u can clearly see fins--The real lord randy taylor 05:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Dragons would be covered in fins. That depends on the fantasy world tho. ---Chaos- 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I see no fins. Just possible legs. At the least, limbs, which go into the ground and are therefore unable to be seen further. It could be fins, legs, or arms. So lets call them limbs for now, shall we? -- Konig Des Todes 03:53, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Wing

If that dragon in the picture really is "Grothmar", don't his wings look like the searing crystals (color)?--Unendingfear 15:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Due to shape of the horns, and wings, it has been theorized on GW2Guru that is actually Zhaitan. Though it is hard to tell. But his body in GW1 was blue-ish, so having matched the searing crystals a little bit wouldn't surprise me, as those were blue-ish as well. Assuming this picture is of "Grothmar" that is. -- Konig/talk 16:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The searing "crystals" are obsidian (volcanic glass). -~=Sparky (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

But their color is a bluish color. And I wouldn't say they are Obsidian either, as they are a light blue color, not a black color. -- Konig/talk 20:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps the Charr called upon Grothmar's power (praying to him) during The Searing. Unlikely though, since he was taking quite a nap. — PonyX 04:04, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they just hacked chunks off of him. Belar 04:15, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The Searing was caused by the Cauldron of Cataclysm from the Titans. Besides, the incidences we have of a being calling upon a Charr resulted in this guy. -- Konig/talk 07:06, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

How do you get the Nornbear out of Charr...? I'm confused. — PonyX 15:03, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe he meant "a being calling upon a dragon" showing that had the Charr called upon the dragon, they would have ended up like the Nornbear

Woops, forgot to sign--Kitor 16:24, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

That is correct, I meant that the Charr was corrupted just as the Nornbear was, but by a different dragon. -- Konig/talk 21:57, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Combat

I can't wait to see how Anet puts these fights together. These guys are HUGE. 68.193.113.198 19:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

You ever play Lost Planet or see the trailer for its sequel?....We can take it down....71.234.86.225 22:15, 15 December 2009 (UTC)AceKevin8412

I just watched it xD. It's WAY smaller than this guy is gonna be, + they used a (nuclear?) rocket to destroy it xD131.180.114.103 12:16, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Event System

I doubt you can kill any of the actual dragons (except Zhaitan) because it says that after they move, they don't do much. Visually, it doesn't quite match Grothmar. It looks too small to be Grothmar (there's no crater of corruption behind him or whatever). Killing random/generic dragons must be a part of the new event system (since Grothmar flying around with a huge trail of corruption behind him attacking villages isn't reasonable), so this could easily be a non-storyline random dragon. -~=Sparky (talk) 02:59, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

diff=23675&oldid=23667

"They work with the Krytans and Ascalonians, and even maintain a presence in Elona, although crossing the Crystal Desert is currently impossible due to Palawa's stranglehold over the southern reaches and the desert dragon's presence in the northern desert." --Santax (talk · contribs) 21:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't say that Joko's forces are fighting Kralkatorrik's forces. Just that the two forces prevent access to Elona. However, this shows Joko is fighting Zhaitan's: "This undead armada has cut off all human contact with Cantha, and the dragon’s undead army wages war even now along the northern Elonian border, preventing all in Tyria from departing for other lands...for now." -- Konig/talk 22:14, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The northern Elonian border could easily be the Blazeridge Mountains, if you consider the Crystal Desert to be part of Elona, in which case Zhaitan's forces would be fighting Kralkatorrik's? In any event, it probably actually is best to put it neutrally until it's made clearer. --Santax (talk · contribs) 22:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I think before the Crystal Desert was formed, the Crystal Sea (thus the Desolation as a possible coast) was the "boarder" between Tyria and Elona. And since the Crystal Desert was formed, I think the whole desert (including the Desolation) was a "no man's land" meaning there is no set boarder. This based on the mentions of Elona being just the three provinces (Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi) - meaning the Desolation wasn't considered Elona. But with Joko ruling Elona, I'd say the Elonian Boarder goes as far as Joko's rule. -- Konig/talk 23:14, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The Movement states that Joko established his throne in the Desert, but it doesn't mention whether if that's the actual desert or the place we used to consider the Desolation (I assume that minus the Margonite it is now considered part of the Desert). That said, the ruins in the Desert suggest that some point after the Exodus the Desert was part of the Elonian empire, unless Margonites liked building things on the seabed. --Santax (talk · contribs) 11:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It is known that the Primeval Kings extended their rule all the way to the Tombs of the Primeval Kings, but after their fall, I don't think the Crystal Desert or the Desolation was really considered a real part of Elona. Like I said, it seems to be a "no man's land" of continents - part of the supercontinent Elona and Tyria is on, but not part of the individual continents, unless someone is currently taking claim on that land. Margonites were not part of Elona, and they did build structures in the desert - so did Turai and the other Elonians on the pilgrimage. But beyond the Primeval Kings, nothing shows the Desolation or the Crystal Desert to be a part of Elona except for what Joko rules after he rules Elona. As for where his throne is, it could be in the Desolation (which I'd assume would no longer be called such due to the water running through there now), or in the southern Tyrian map - or perhaps in between the two maps we have atm. I'd assume that Joko would love to build his throne (or at the least a monument) on the unfinished Temple of Ascension, to further plow his dislike for Turai (the whole finishing something his enemies couldn't).

In short, I don't think we can set a definitive line of where the boarder of Elona is at, except for where Joko now rules. And seeing how we don't know where that is at the moment, we cannot tell where the boarder is. All we can tell is that Joko is fighting Zhaitan, and Kralky is preventing access to Elona via the desert. -- Konig/talk 17:34, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Order of Whispers

I wonder how they got through. I smell an expansion in the planing! Either way ones You get an asura Gate some where none of the dragons will be able to stop travel to that area.--Yozuk 21:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I just think it's because they are more ninja (yes, that's an adjective now) than even GW1's finest assassins. Paddymew 05:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

My guess: Asura Gate. Or Kormir is given them access to the Shadow Nexus. -- Konig/talk 14:57, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing ninja about any GW1 assassin.

Nice guess, but someone has to build an Asura Gate first, and then why would only the Whispers be able to use it? And GW1 assassins have quite a few ninja things about them, you don't even need to look hard to notice. Rose Of Kali 19:11, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they found an abandoned gate, the Asura probably abandoned quite a few of them when they were fleeing from the Destroyers. It's also possible that they figured out how to build their own long range gates or teleporters. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:59, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

There is no mention of Asura ever coming near Elona, and it still doesn't explain why Whispers only. It does make me think of the portal in THK, it behaves like an Asura gate, but was obviously made by someone else. Rose Of Kali 11:35, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Due to the material of those, those gates (there are three - another is in Iron Mines, forgot where the third is) are made by the Mursaat. There is also the teleportation method that Rurik and the heroes used in Ruins of Surmia mission (which it is believed that all the "rose compasses" seen throughout the game - which are most dominant in Prophecies and the guild halls - are an old kind of teleportation pad). So there are at least four ways they could be traveling - via the Rift (Odran's portals or Shadow Nexus), via an Asura Gate, via a Mursaat gate (highly doubtful), or via the teleportation pad (should they be such). -- Konig/talk 16:39, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

For the record, there's an Asura gate undernearth Kamadan, so there could be more elsewhere in Elona. They also could've hired a krewe to build a pair of gates for them, or recruited some Asura with the necessary skills. They also could've figured out how to build long range teleporters themselves, or developed some form of magical stealth. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 03:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I question the canonocity of the Cantha and Elona version of getting to the Eye of the North, because only the beginning is different, and throughout the whole Eye of the North game, your hero is assumed to be Tyrian. Also, aside from this (and the joke of the Wintersday Dwarf), there are no dwarves in Elona or Cantha, and all the Asura seem to be Tyrian based (afterall, if there were Asura under Elona and Cantha, why are they all on the continent of Tyria now?. And why does everything have to be magical? Just like Basalt Grotto was not a magical means to get to Vabbi, perhaps the Order of Whispers just found a passage which no one else has. -- Konig/talk 16:56, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Canon is a tricky thing in games, but I don't think ANet would make an entire campaign non-canon for two thirds of the playerbase. We don't know if the Depths were just under Tyria - after all, the earthquakes spanned all 3 continents, and the Dredge made it to Cantha somehow. If something is seen in-game, it must be accepted as canon unless ANet says so. --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:03, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I'm not saying that the Depths of Tyria isn't under Cantha and Elona - in fact, for Elona, there are many things which hint to possible structures underground (many of the ruin structures is similar to those found in just underground locations - such as the Catacombs of Ascalon). I'm saying I don't think that the singular Asura Gate is canon lore for being under Kamadan and Kaineng City - like wise, I don't believe the PCs are in fact the ones who do all the lore things, but the main storyline is done by Devona & co. and the heroes of the campaign (quests is far questionable on who does it - I think the other henchmen personally). With that belief of mine (which, honestly, is mostly based off of the Stories) Devona and co. would be the heroes which are talked to that say they are from Ascalon and the like - not some random Canthan or Elonian hero. -- Konig/talk 21:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Don't you think it's a bit early for such an in-depth analysis of how they get there? All we can is guess and speculate. :P And the story of Devona&co vs the PC is age old, and is still open to personal interpretation, it was designed that way, you make you story to be what you want it to be. Rose Of Kali 14:21, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Simple answer: Whispers have access to certain beta skills--99.225.28.182 04:08, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Not to bring up a dead discussion but the Asura gates under Kamadan and KC no longer have the receiving gate in Boreal Station or did you forget that Vekk smashed it to stop the destroyers chasing you through. And who says that those caverns didn't collapse afterward, I mean they were already falling apart.-- Tenri 04:11, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The War in Kryta has Evennia going to the Eye of the North via the gate under LA. Most likely she goes to the one in Boreal Station (implying it got fixed after the GD's death). But non-the-less, I doubt that the two quest/missions under Kamadan and KC are canon to lore, most likely they were just added to allow everyone access to EN.

Also, as proven by the GoA, asura gates can be reconfigured to other gates. There is no forced 1 to 1 always situation. -- Konig/talk 13:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the Order of Whispers traveled through the sand the same way the player character does in the game--Junundu. My prediction. After all, they know how to do it. As long as they can get to the desolation from wherever they're headquarters are in Elona, they can just burrow under everything until they hit a mountain. Just a thought. 71.248.50.138 18:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Kralkatorrik / Krakatoa

Could this dragon be related to the volcanic Indonesian island Krakatoa? I would edit the page, but I wanted to get a second opinion. Markus Clouser 01:35, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

The structure of this word makes it sound Northern-European/Viking in origin. It seems unlikely that someone would take an Indonesian volcano and make it sound like it came from Northern Europe. Thus I wouldn't put it in the article unless confirmed by ANet. Rose Of Kali 17:00, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

First there is no drakkar and second kralkatorik or such is the dragon of destruction (its more like a rotting flesh dragon) ----The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Matu3333 (talk) .

Who said anything about Drakkar/Jormag? Anyway, there's nothing rotting about the pictures we've seen of Kralkatorrik. --hexal 14:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

He mixed up Kralkatorrik with Zhaitan, the Undead Orrian dragon. -- Konig/talk 21:09, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Wtf what ahs kralkatorikl to do with water hes a necro! ----The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Matu3333 (talk) .

Possibly a concept art of Kralkatorrik

Am I allowed to add this concept art to Kralkatorrik's page? I can't imagine any other Elder Dragon to look like that one... --Thalador Doomspeaker 15:38, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Kralkatorrik is as big as a mountain. Maybe the dragon in the pic isn't an elder dragon. -- Arduin 20:58, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I say it is Kralkatorrik because with the dragon being up in the sky he would look smaller and the creatures are closer than Kralkatorrik and part of him is cut off. Also it says that Kralkatorrik flew across Ascalon when he went from the Charr Homelands to the Crystal Desert. Though you shouldn't put it as concept art of him because unless proof (such as an interview or caption) is found, it's just speculation. - Giant Nuker 21:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

^. Nothing has been said that it is Kralkatorrik, it's just pure speculation - Which doesn't belong on a wiki :P --Naut 21:18, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Keyword is 'Possibly', Thalador :P. --Naoroji 21:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Really? I thought it had already been confirmed that was Kralkatorrik, and the cloud behind it is what corrupts beings in the first place. --Amannelle 21:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that's just a general of Kralkatorrik. There seems to be various mutated or draconic purple lightning creatures and land found in either ascalon or crystal desert concept art. I doubt this is Kralkatorrik due to the lack of spikes and the color is different (Kralkatorrik is blue not silver!), thus it would be a general as the elder dragons' general are the most draconic of their minions. -- Konig/talk 21:53, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

"general as the elder dragons' general are the most draconic of their minions" HE GOT GLINT D:. NOOOOO --Naut 22:00, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I see what you mean, Konig. --Amannelle 22:32, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Konig, that's a concept art and it shows a dragon that totally looks like Kralkatorrik. How much time has passed since the last two depictions of Kralky (in-game and the Water Dragon concept art)? Let's see... 3 years! Also, you can't really see its back - thus cannot say that there are no spikes* -, it's just your "it cannot be because if we can't see something it must not be the thing because..." habit. If Kralkatorrik's general is that big than how large could Kralkatorrik be? He could destroy Ascalon in a few minutes! And just to mention, look at the pespective. The heroes are in the foreground while the dragon is further in the distance. And that's only part of it. The dragon in that concept art is possibly the same size as Kralky from in-game, or maybe even larger.

I don't know what do you want with its colour. Kralkatorrik is blue? Then my eyes must have severed a fatal damage or I need new glasses, but there's nothing blue in that metal-like back (in-game). It's definitely silver. I'll copy what I said in another thread:

"This is definitely Kralkatorrik.

- The massive size

- The smaller dragon minions around it

- Flying (like he did while he was going to the Crystal Desert)

- Purplish lightning, mist -> in the Ascalon section of the Art Book we can see creatures that seem to be very corrupted and have a purplish glow

- It doesn't resemble to any of the Elder Dragons we have seen (and we can rule out the possibilities that this CA is depicting the Deep Sea Dragon or Jormag)

- Primordus looks rather different (and we already have a CA about him) and there's nothing "undeadish" in the environment or in the dragon itself"

• you should also know that Kralkatorrik is pretty much burrowed in that island. We can only see his spine, nothing else. --Thalador Doomspeaker 08:09, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Nevertheless Thalador, we still can't put it on the article. Due to it being pure speculation :P. For all we know it COULD be the Deep Sea Dragon, or Jormag due to the lack of concept art behind them. --Naut 10:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

((I wonder, since glint lives in crystals, do ya think she and Kralkatorrik are related? o.o --Neil • 12:59, 25 July 2010 (UTC)))

I think all dragons are connected with crystals somehow. Destruction's Depths (which leads to Primordus) is completely filled with crystals. And the area in Ice Cliff Chasms that has a mini dragon is surrounded by crystals. Of course Kralkatorrik is the Crystal Dragon, and Glint lives in one. The only two dragons that we didn't see near large crystals were Jormag and Zhaitan, one of which we never even saw, and the other was frozen. Eive 15:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I disagree greatly. The ice near the "mini dragon" is seemingly imprisoning it (there are no crystals there). In Destruction's Depths, those are just like the structures elsewhere - such as at Raven's Shrine, which seems to draw the ire of the destroyers. Also, those "crystals" are not close to Primordus - you go through an asura gate. Those ice structures are still in the far shiverpeaks, maybe reaching into the nortnern shiverpeaks. -- Konig/talk 00:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I did remember the asura gate part way through my comment but didn't change it. With the mini dragon however, I don't really see how that could be ice. How exactly would it have froze that way? It would've had to jump into a lake, then fly back and sit there as it was frozen, I think that is crystal. And I'm fairly positive that the surrounding area also has the "stalagmites" of crystal too. I do concede to your other arguments though. Eive 01:41, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Unnatural formation, of course. But that doesn't look like crystal. For comparison, look at this, those are crystals, while this doesn't look like such. The textures are way different. -- Konig/talk 02:08, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, we know that this isn't Kralkatorrik but rather the Shatterer, a high ranked dragon minion of Kralkatorrik. -- Konig/talk 19:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Female

Okay, so the interview ([1]) calls Kralkatorrik her and she (no, not the chocolate Hershey). But that interview isn't written in the traditional sense... It's summarizing what Jeff was saying. Could it not be that they mistakenly denoted Kralkatorrik as she and Jeff never called it as she? Would seem weird they suddenly denote Kralkatorrik from being "he" and "him" (or "it") to being "she" and "her." -- Konig/talk 16:01, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

I too am suspicious. How do they know it's a girl, who checked? --hexal 16:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

How do you check a dragons' sex? - Mini Me talk 18:26, 27 July 2010

You ask the guys who designed and coded it. pling 18:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, when talking about a boat or ship, we generally use the term "she." So it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that this dragon is actually genderless and simply because "she" is the size of a mountain, they call "her" a "she." Eive 19:14, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Also according to that article the Elder Dragons may not be intentionally destructive its just their nature and they can't help it. Ramei Arashi 19:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Wait, what does that have to do with deciding what gender a dragon is? - Mini Me talk 22:00, 27 July 2010

I believe he is referring to how females are destructive on their hormones/making a joke. - Giant Nuker 22:52, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Location?

I find it strange that the Crystal Dragon landed near the Crystal Desert. When I first heard of the Crystal Dragon, I immediately thought of the Crystal Desert and that being the cause of the desert's name. Anyone else find this weird to think of? Or is there any link between the two? --Spigs 09:34, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

As per here, the two are unconnected. Kralkatorrik is called the Elder Crystal Dragon because the Dragonbrand is a line of things that were turned into crystals. The Crystal Desert is called such because it is made out of tiny crystals (some not so tiny as can be seen in Elona's Reach). The Crystal Desert was once called the Crystal Sea (named such, I believe it was stated, due to the sea looking like it glittered like crystals) and was turned into a desert with Abaddon's fall just before the Exodus (not early enough for it to have dealt with Kralkatorrik). To our knowledge, there is no link, and by what we know there won't be. There may, however, be a link between Kralkatorrik and Glint. -- Konig/talk 13:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Glint i am your father? 78.150.245.125 16:40, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Not in GW2?

Okay, so I've been humming and hawing over this in the couple weeks since PAX, and I think it's okay to post here. When I was there, I overheard one of the devs saying something to the effect of, "What would they do if we told the Kralkatorrik wasn't even in the game?" So, I'm assuming that we'll be seeing Kralkatorrik in one of the coming games (Cantha or Elona, maybe?). Anyway, I just thought I'd put that info out there. :D --★KOKUOU★ 05:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Some interviews in the past have stated that all five of the Elder Dragons' influence is in the game - due to this, people have already been speculating that we only see and fight Zhaitan in the game's initial release. Most people who think this think that there will either be 1 Elder Dragon per expansion, or that Tyria will be getting additions the size of Sorrow's Furnace/Titan Quest update while new expansions come out (in order to keep things intereting). But for now it's just that: speculation. And nothing new. -- Konig/talk 10:39, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd also bet on Elona, given that Kralkatorrik has taken residence in the Crystal Desert, and is apparently vying with Palawa Joko for absolute control of the region. It will probably involve the Order of Whispers slipping us in... <speculates wildly> Arshay Duskbrow 02:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it's Zhaitan, not Kralkatorrik, which is battling Joko's forces. -- Konig/talk 02:06, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Really? The Strait of Malchor seems pretty far from Elona. --Kyoshi (Talk) 03:05, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it's both. Read the Crystal Desert article: "For most of recent history, Palawa Joko has maintained control of the entire Crystal Desert. However, after the Elder Undead Dragon, Zhaitan, rose from underneath Orr, the desert became a warzone between the two undead forces. Furthermore, when the Elder Crystal Dragon Kralkatorrik awoke and flew south in 1320 AE, it claimed the northern portions of the desert as its own. Joko has maintained control of the Desolation and a southern portion of Crystal Desert despite the two threats. The presence of Joko, Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan has cut off the land route from Tyria to Elona, save for the members of the Order of Whispers who have somehow bypassed this obstacle." Assuming we can get rid of Zhaitan in the first GW2 release, it'll be Kralkatorrik vs. Joko (probably with us ending up helping him...again). Arshay Duskbrow 03:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Such articles are second hand sources. We're only told that Kralkatorrik has land in the northern Crystal Desert (which may be out of Joko's reach), and that it blocks off passage to Elona. Nothing, read: nothing, states that Kralkatorrik's forces are in a war with Joko's. In fact, that article doesn't state they are fighting, merely that Kralkatorrik is a threat - which it is - and that Joko has maintained control of the southern Crystal Desert despite Kralkatorrik's presence in the northern Crystal Desert. -- Konig/talk 06:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Yep, like I said, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the power vacuum caused by Zhaitan's fall - assuming we actually get it done... Arshay Duskbrow 06:45, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

2012 - Infinite - talk 06:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

You wish. A F K When Needed 13:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Damn, they're onto me! - Infinite - talk 14:48, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

@Konig: Considering that it says "despite the two threats", I think it'd be safe speculation to say that they are putting some pressure on Joko. Still speculation of course. --Kyoshi (Talk) 16:17, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Seeing how I wrote that line in the article, I think I'd know what it was meaning. Kralkatorrik is a threat, but not an imminent threat. Like the DSD is a threat, but not a direct or imminent threat to the main races of Tyria - hence why we know so little of it. The only information on this topic comes from the Movement of the World which only says the "desert dragon" (before Kralkatorrik was named) is blocking passage to Elona. This is literally the only line which connects Joko and Kralkatorrik: "although crossing the Crystal Desert is currently impossible due to Palawa's stranglehold over the southern reaches and the desert dragon's presence in the northern desert." Nothing says that the two are fighting (the bit about Zhaitan fighting Joko is this line: "the dragon’s undead army wages war even now along the northern Elonian border, preventing all in Tyria from departing for other lands") -- Konig/talk 21:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair, fair. --Kyoshi (Talk) 23:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Power vacuum! Watch for it. ;D Arshay Duskbrow 23:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)