Talk:Elona

Elona in GW2

Not solely GW1 material. The fact that Joko dammed the Elon is enough to make me think this will be relevant in GW2. -- Armond Warblade 22:13, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that's just lore. Elona might be an expansion, though. Lord Belar 22:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It may just be lore, but at this point lore is all we have to document. The fact that the devs put enough effort into thinking up what happened to Elona makes me, as a writer, think it's important - you simply don't have time to think of unimportant details most of the time, especially not ones as major as this. -- Armond Warblade 22:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Just like cantha, it's a perfect setting for an expansion. Help what's left of the sunspears take down Joko, traitors, etc. Lord Belar 22:25, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm willing to bet there will be four installments. Tyria (Including EotN lands) which introduces all the races, as they're homes are all on Tyria. Installment two features, say, an alliance with the Dredge or wiping out of the Dredge, and using their tunnels to get to Cantha to lead a rebellion of unified Kurzicks and Luxons against Usoko's descendants. Installment three would be joining the Order of Whispers, and going across the Crystal Desert (Farmland?) to defeat Palawa Joko. Installment four would then be, with the Canthan army, perhaps Palawa's army, and some Norn, and the Ascalon Vanguard holding out at Ebonhawke, killing the Ancient Dragons. Calor (t) 22:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Or just let three or four Norn take out all the baddies in Cantha and Elona. -- Armond Warblade 22:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Three or four? Try one on each continent, and have Balthazar kill the dragons. :P Lord Belar 00:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it will be its own game and you can be both undead Sunspear and Centaur. I hope you can be this races becose that would be cool, And i iike Centaurs.--Dam Wish 10:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It does stink that Vabbi is all dried out now, since those palaces and gardens were my favorite landscapes in nightfall, and some of my favorites in the game. (Actually, most of my favorite pieces of terrain seem to be changing in guild wars 2, Kurzicks get conquered, Jade Sea might be melting back into plain water. Hopefully some new good stuff appears in 2, though I guess the Echovald forest terrain might still have enough buildings, streams, and such to look cool.)Tambora

Sounds somewhat weird if Elona is not included in GW2. Since it has been stated that there won't be stand alone campaigns but rather expansions and mini expansions. Entire elona sounds too big to be added as an expansion, at least entire area we have now. And I'd really like to see Elonian continent in GW2. (Dan Ops - talk) 22:12, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see more Elonian content too. -_- Vili 03:25, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Connection to Tyria

Well if Elona is included, and it is connected to the continent of Tyria, why not add in a new space in between that? The Order of whispers may not even be operating throught the Crystal Desert at all, simply crossing the Charr-held Ascalon and going south from there? Its an intriguing thought, and is another place to incorporate a new race/cities/dungeons/weapons/etc. I know im really going out on a limb here, but there could be a race of say "High Elves" (I know, not very original, but it would go with what in saying, just keep reading) which are formed as Mursaat "dillutes" so to speak, still angelic, but more human-like. Aiding the Order of Whispers to get to Elona, it would also fill in that "mystery land" that we see when we look at a world map of GW. And it would allow players to get to Elona without making major changes in the storyline... yet anyway. Raziel spiritflayer 07:25, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Elona and Tyria are already connected through the Crystal Desert / Desolation. Fox007 10:41, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of this, only isnt the desolation kinda toxic? And there is still the problem of that mean old dragon... This was just a way of suggesting a new area, and a way of "finishing" the continent of Tyria. When looking at the maps im GW1, you will notice land going off the edge of the map(s) If we can climb and swim in GW2, they can't really use cliffs and chasms to blocade it off... I think they are using the dragons to do that, at the moment anyway, and I for one think that it would be awesome to "zoom out" and see the whole planet, the completed continents, and maybe even adding a "realm of the gods" type of thing (just like another planet/ realm, with a portal somewhere on Tyria, like the realm of torment). Raziel spiritflayer 03:23, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Travel to Ebonhawke you will find a blockaded cave with a hole in the boards. Follow the clues and you will find out that the Order of Whispers is using this cave to go somewhere. It looks to me like it cuts through the Blazeridge Mountain bypassing the Desert Gate, the route to to Elona, and is still being used. Agent Nighthawk 15:21, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

South side of Blazeridge Mountains is hardly Elona, but yeah, it's likely going to be used in later releases or expansions. Mediggo 16:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Concept Art

I really don't think that that piece of art is of Elona. There is a lot of Tyrian concept art depicting similar places. --Fox427 03:45, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

That's Ebonhawke. The stone hawks are the give away. And the fact it is in the art book in the ascalon section. :P Nice spotting. -- Aspectacle  07:03, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Kourna

Do we know what happened to the Kournan government after Nightfall ? We kinda killed their leader, two of her generals, and the third one came to Istan to train Sunspears... So who ruled Kourna between Varesh and Palawa ? 213.166.213.254 23:56, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

I can't remember exactly, but I believe Morgahn became interim Warmarshal, but I imagine they changed their system of government at some point because the title of Warmarshal is hereditary and Varesh is last of her line (actually come to think of it, there must be other relatives because Palawa Joko is still enslaving descendants of Turai Ossa). But I think it was Dunkoro who became Spearmarshal, not Morgahn. --Santax (talk · contribs) 00:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Looks like it was intentionally left ambiguous, reading the Kournan Peasant's post-Nightfall dialogue. --Santax (talk · contribs) 00:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Morgahn taking command would make sense, but during the ending cinematic we see him training Sunspears... and this is what made me ask the question^^ Thank you for pointing out the dialogue, I didn't even notice it changed O__O Ha, a Vabbian noble buying the throne would be epic^^ Thanks for your answer ! 213.166.213.254 10:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

From the EN Manual: "Kourna had to deal with a power vacuum after the loss of its leader and most of its military. The Sunspears, along with Morgahn, an ex-general of the Kournan armies, proved invaluable to its recovery." This makes me think that there was a small version of the Pretender Wars and Morgahn and the Sunspears settled the war, if not their (temporary?) rulers. That is, until Joko showed up. -- Konig/talk 15:49, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

River Elon

Palawa dammed the river right?

apparantly in character creation we can choose (if human) ascalonian, krytan, canthan and elonian

I think I found a clip of the dam - [1] - look at around 2:30 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Getefix (talk • contribs) at 15:31, 16 February 2010 (UTC).

Thats probably not it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.26.82.47 (talk) at 19:36, 27 March 2010 (UTC).

1, Yes.

2,Irrelivant and already known.

3, yes that is the dam, If you know of any other dams in GW2 please feel free to share.

4,Sign your comments.

--Neil2250 , The Zoologist 21:05, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

@3: We see two dam in the trailer, mind you. One of which is in the charr homelands area (the scene where you see deer and a bridge in the greenlands), and we see a damn in pre-searing - along the Great Wall. I wouldn't doubt more dams being made in 250 years. Where needed. -- Konig/talk 21:57, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Personally I didn't realize it was that particular dam, please don't be so rude, Neil; jeez, did you have a bad day or something? :P Also I wonder how they will apply the "ability" to be Canthan or Elonian without yet having those lands... or has Elona been revealed to us? o_O --Amannelle 02:11, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

All groups, including Orrians, live in Kryta. Mostly as descendants of refugees. Canthans and Elonians don't come from Cantha and Elona this time, but come from Canthan and Elonian descent. Kryta has basically become the USA of Tyria, in terms of the humans that live here. -- Konig/talk 18:25, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Ahem, you mean the Canada of Tyria, with Canada having a more balanced distribution of the races than any other nation.--99.225.28.182 21:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I wouldn't say "balanced". :P And USA has much more population-wise, don't they? --Amannelle 23:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

And the USA makes more sense since Kryta is now the place to escape to for other-continental peeps. Zolann The Irreverent 23:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Canada currently has the highest immigration rate, but a large portion of the immigrants are Caucasian. However, it was later learned that of all the countries in the world, the USA is the most desired place to immigrate to, so I suppose it's safe to say the USA is like Kryta in this sense; or just say North America and be done with it. ;) --Amannelle 00:17, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'm pretty sure no country in the real world is post-apocalyptic refuge for humans. Just saying, this is kind of silly and off-topic. --Kyoshi (Talk) 00:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Lol but GW2 isn't post-apocalyptic. Well, at least not in the true "Armageddon" sense... I suppose you can say it is enduring major troubles, but the sort of apocalyptic I think you're referring to technically means "end of the world". I have a feeling ANet doesn't want the world of Tyria to end before any Expansions come along lol. Kryta is just a refuge for those who want a better life (or life at all lol); I think it's quite debatable that immigrants come to countries with that goal in mind. However, as to this being off-topic, you are right. xD More on-topic... They have talked about Elona and Cantha, but how far do you think we will actually be able to go in GW2 before any additional games are released? --Amannelle 01:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

It was an exaggeration, really. Basically that the human race is dwindling.

The limit would probably be at the Crystal Desert; I don't see them allowing us into Cantha or Elona until an expansion comes along. --Kyoshi (Talk) 01:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh! ^^ Oops, sorry, I misunderstood.

Yes, the Crystal Desert does sound like a reasonable divider... though I'll still miss Cantha. ^^ At least we'll (probably) see it sometime in the future... eventually... --Amannelle 01:07, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think they would have bothered with a Guild Wars Beyond story (I assume they're going to get GWB stories, at least) if there were no expansions to be released. --Kyoshi (Talk) 01:08, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

So

Is it actually 'Elonian', or is it 'Elonan' like one of the recent warinkryta updates hinted? I iz confused. --Naoroji 16:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I sorta like the sound of Elonian, but I think it is actually supposed to be Elonan... not positive, though ^^; --Amannelle 16:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit: In GW1 it was Elonian, so I'd assume it would be the same, however, it may have changed over 250 years. ^^ --Amannelle 16:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Where in GW1 did it say Elonian, though? Because, well,... Here; http://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/ scroll down to April 29th. --Naoroji 16:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

From the Guild Wars Nightfall Manuscript: "Elona thrives in a realm surrounded by savannahs, deserts, plains, and wastelands. Three allied provinces stand side by side to support this proud nation. To the west is Istan, an island province littered with the ruins of an earlier Elonian empire. To the east is Kourna, known for its fiercely loyal soldiers, dedicated army, expansive estates, and agriculture. The northern province of Vabbi is home to wealthy merchant princes, a land where successful Elonians believe their safety, security, and affluence allow them to sponsor many of their nation’s greatest achievements. Despite occasional rivalries, these three provinces—Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi—have kept Elona prosperous and strong for over a thousand years. " --Amannelle 17:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, this is from the EotN Manuscript: "All of Elona has prospered from increased trade with Cantha and Kryta in recent years, and many Elonians have begun traveling the world, for both pleasure and adventure. But as word spreads of strange rumblings from beneath the ground, adventurers are likely to return to Elona to investigate. " --Amannelle 17:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

So THEY (ANet) made the mistake. Lol @ that. --Naoroji 17:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The new guy (Dave, I think his name was) made a typo. It is called Elonan one time, and Elonian hundreds of times. Anet makes typos all the time, nothing to go "Lol @ that" or change thousands of things because of. -- Konig/talk 18:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Wohey, calm down 0_0. I was just doubting because I have a character with Elonian in the name. Would've been a bummer if the real spelling was then Elonan. And other than the warinkryta update, I couldn't remember any other mentions of Elonian/Elonan. So, easy, Konig xD. --Naoroji 18:43, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, you didn't specify what you meant. When I saw it I first assumed it was a sarcastic "ANet made a mistake, big surprise there" comment. Konig must be as tired of those as I am. --Kyoshi (Talk) 18:54, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

^_^ That's sorta how it sounded to me too, but I just trusted that Naoroji wouldn't say something like that. --Amannelle 19:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

"Konig must be as tired" I am but I wasn't even saying what I said in any hostile or aggressive tone... At least I didn't mean to. -- Konig/talk 21:25, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Lol today we learned the wonderful curse of communicating through typing; completely misunderstanding intonation behind what people say lol. xD --Amannelle 21:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

In two different directions, no less. =P --Kyoshi (Talk) 21:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Did you guys forget your rare materials?--99.225.28.182 21:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Bingo! Thanks, IP =). Also, @ Konig, sorry then mate xD. Just looked like it for a second there. But as Amannelle already said,... The curse of typing and not talking face to face, I guess =). --Naoroji 22:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I get this alot. Zolann The Irreverent 23:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Nation vs province

The terms are not synonymous, so I've edited the article to remove what I believe to be erroneous 'national' designations. The manuscript is very consistent in referring to each province as a province, and I believe matters of 'national' pride refer to a contribution to or comparison of all three provinces. Redshift 13:35, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

They, elonians, are one nation: Elona. They, elonians, are split into three provinces: Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi. All Istani, Vabbians, and Kournans live in the nation of Elona. BUT, they act as seperate entities like (please correct me if I'm wrong) a confederation. Loosly allied as one nation, but almost their own nations.

For instance, let's say (picks random states from the USA out of a bag) Virginia, Pennsylvania, and New York were their own country, called (for this example) the North American Confederacy (NAC). In this country, there is no strong central gov't but there is strong state/province gov't. Virginia could have laws banning murder, smoking, and non-prescribed drugs. NY, however, might just ban murder. Pennsylvania could ban drinking and get away with allowing murder because the central gov't is either non-existant, is similar to the Sunspears, or is impotent. Whichever it is, it cannot enforce or create legislation to ban murder in all three states/provinces.

In Elona, a similar situation exists. The three provinces are one nation, but do not have a central gov't to pass legislation over all the provinces. Vabbi could ban smoking and murder, Kourna could ban acting, and Istan could ban acting and murder; noone could say differently.

I hope that made sense.-- Necro Shea Mo 03:42, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Elona is a continent, not a nation. Elona has no nation, by name, during GW1.Konig/talk 06:57, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

I understand, Necro, thanks :)-- the edit was made to correct in that direction that although possessing a large degree of sovereignty they were still provinces and not independent nations. As for 'no nation', I believe that conflicts with the language in the manuscript, as cited above. Redshift 07:11, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

The three provinces were once all under the rule of Primeval Kings, prior to end of gw1:Shattered Dynasty Era. As such, the three loosely allied provinces could still be thought as a nation, according to Wikipedia's definition of the term, if it weren't for the fact that the three provinces are very independent and only loosely allied, and are often stated to be nations of their own right as well. Mediggo 10:01, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

It's kind of ironic, but I am going to correct myself: Elona was and still is considered a nation, but possibly not a continent (in NF, the Desolation isn't considered part of Elona but "north of Elona" - same with Dzalana being "east of Elona" - and both are part of the same landmass). In A Light in the Darkness, Trahearne even calls Elona one of the four major human nations of the northern lands (Kryta, Ascalon, Orr, and Elona). So yeah, I was wrong then. Elona has been the nation - just as Cantha is the empire - and potentially not the continent (I actually don't recall off the top of my head any in-game dialogue or manual dialogue calling them continents, only fan-written stuff doing such).

But the bigger question is why Mediggo went and revived a 1.5 year old discussion? Konig/talk 02:57, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Mediggo is tired of waiting for the Elona expansion--Relyk ~ talk > 03:26, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

"has never been" vs "is not"

That was my edit, wasn't signed in. Any reason I'm getting undone on that one? I think the phrasing I chose is clearer, as 'is not' leaves it open to interpretation that it may have been accessible in the past (whether or not it is common knowledge that it hasn't been). Also, is there any way for my attribute the edits to my username? I submitted changes before I realized I wasn't logged in. --Ph03n1x (talk) 02:12, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Not undone. Original was talking about initial release in future tense. It was out of date. However, I felt that can be easily misread (I did at first as "never will be" and then "wasn't but is now") but I shortened it for consicion reason to show that it is not presently available but could become in the future. Didn't consider the chance of it being interpreted as having once been. I like shortness and directness but won't be fussed if reverted.

To your last question. No clue. Konig 02:34, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Post a note on the IP's talk page saying it's most likely you. -Auron 03:04, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

To elaborate on Auron's answer a bit, no, there's no way to reassign ownership of wiki activity from an IP to a user. —Dr Ishmael 03:25, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

The Leaks

With the recent leaks and such, we have images of the new maps, which obviously take place in Elona. So is it worth it to include those images at this point in time under a spoiler section, or should we wait for additional details? --Teletric.3821 (talk) 12:14, 9 May 2017 (UTC) The latter. All of the information is, apart from being subject to change, acquired through the breach of an NDA, and since we're the official wiki, we should and are not allowed to help spread the word in any form or way let alone support breaches of conduct. We're already treading on thin ice with having articles on datamined information (and we have been warned multiple times that it's not appreciated nor approved of by ArenaNet), so this would be very unwise. talk 12:30, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Split

The fact that the nation and the continent of Elona share a name seems to be causing some confusion; e.g. the lede says that Elona is also known as the Land of the Golden Sun and the United Kingdom of Elona (not actually sure where that one comes from; it might be nice to use the referencing system we already have to prevent disputes over it), but one name refers to the geographical entity and the other refers to the political entity. --77.101.110.105 13:07, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

A split is unnecessary, since beyond mechanics there's yet to be anything that says Elona is a continent (beyond one manual entry - manuals are written pre-beta though and could be in error, hard to say) - just things that says this is not this which is painfully obvious. I do not think there is enough to merit a split over what may not even exist. Do note that not a single promotion for PoF calls Elona a continent - it is always land, nation, and/or kingdom. Same with dialogue in GW2, and even GW1 - when Elona is compared to continents, it's compared to Cantha and "the Tyrian continent" which is just saying, as aforementioned, that this is not this. Konig (talk) 18:27, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Continent? Nation? It's not hard to use a general term which can stand for both, until we get a dev to put on their geology/anthropology hat for us. G R E E N E R 21:46, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Per yesterday's Dev Diary, the concept of an Elonian nation was something of a temporary phenomenon that united Vabbi, Kourna, and Istan after the post-Scarab Plague chaos subsided. It was referred to as a "shared kingdom," but there doesn't seem to be any united leadership. Turai Ossa was the only king of a united Elonian kingdom, and then only because the other provinces rallied behind him during his time as Warmarshall of Kourna and then sought his continued leadership in recovering from the war. Other than during that one generation, the only time Elona was ever truly united was during the Primeval Dynasty, but it doesn't appear that that era is what "United Kingdom of Elona" refers to. Lysander (talk) 17:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

TBH, I've spotted quite a few typos in that article, and I'm not so sure that line is meant to say Elona was never a nation before then (because, quite honestly, if it wasn't then what was the name of the kingdom the Primeval Kings ruled? Or gww:Admun Kolos?). That article is definitely a "summary" rather than explicit detail ("200 years" of unlawful leaderlessness starting with the Scarab Plague, except for the 110+ years of the Great Dynasty that was also a united and peaceful Elona). There are four dynasties / kingdoms of a Elonian kingdom: Primeval Dynasty, Great Dynasty, the Three Allied Provinces, and then Joko's dynasty. The only time Elona is arguably not a united kingdom was during the Shattered Era Dynasty, between the Great Dynasty and the three allied provinces that is named a united kingdom in that article (long before Turai ruled it). Konig (talk) 18:41, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Update on the matter

So far in PoF, I've seen many dialogues calling Elona a nation (such as the Primeval Kings). But I've not seen any calling it a continent. For the sake of accuracy in the article, has anyone found such? So far, seems we only have one official reference that cannot be mistaken for gw1 mechanics. Konig (talk) 19:18, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

There's plenty more official references than that, as you well know from the previous discussion on the subject. I think unless there is something that explicitly says that Elona is not a continent, then we should consider that matter settled. –Santax (talk · contribs) 16:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

And as you may well know from reading through that, except for one manual entry all those are promotional and can be talking mechanical, in which in gw1 "continent" was used as a term for the mechanical separation of world map.

While I would usually say the lack of evidence is not entirely evidence of lacking, when you have an entire expansion that focuses on a "continent and/or nation" but only ever calls it a nation and never a continent, then that is indeed evidence of lacking. If someone can point to a second lore usage of calling Elona a continent, I'd consider it settled. I've yet to find such. Konig (talk) 17:59, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Did you actually check before starting this discussion? Scholar Stinn suggests that the Crystal Desert is "a continent away". Tendaji says of the Sunspears that "Once they were the guardians of all free Elonians, but they failed to stop Palawa Joko from conquering the continent", and Intelligence Report: Palawa Joko I says that "There have been no recent sightings of King Joko on the continent since his unexplained crossing into the Underworld". –Santax (talk · contribs) 08:15, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I did. I even checked during the previous discussion. Stinn's dialogue isn't really solid given its metaphorical (and at that, he's referring to the Crystal Desert, not Elona), and the Intelligence Report doesn't refer to the continent as Elona so it's too ambiguous as to what the "continent" is. Tendaji's dialogue is a good case, but as you yourself said one use isn't certain enough as it could be an error on the writer. Konig (talk) 19:34, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

You're moving the goalposts again. You said, "If someone can point to a second lore usage of calling Elona a continent, I'd consider it settled". I have provided three more examples, in addition to the 5 or so provided in the previous discussion (each of which you were able to find some sort of problem with). And although you have again managed to find problems with two of these new examples, one of them is, to use your words, "a good case". So it's settled. –Santax (talk · contribs) 19:47, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

The goalpost had always been to find out what the case is - I've not moved it, despite your apparent hostility to me. We currently seem to have a grand total of two reliable instances in lore calling Elona a continent, and dozens calling it a nation. I'm simply pressing this to figure out what the situation is so that we can remove that split tag without revert wars and document this accurately. And yes, I do find issues with some of those - but I can find issues with some of the sources calling Elona a nation as well. Konig (talk) 21:47, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Ref. latest edit regarding eras / dynasties

On second thought, I think the dynasties / eras still deserve their own articles over at the gw1 wiki. gw1:Shattered Dynasty Era for example has a relevant quotation that doesn't really fit easily into the main Elona article. As for the edit itself: one might argue we shouldn't have separate headlines for just a few lines of text (which I find to be a valid point), and if anyone should choose to revert my edit, I'm all good. I was actually about to do it myself, but for now: I'll let it stand for consideration. Titus 10:15, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

I think it's a good idea. Side note: there's plenty of new lore on Elona's distant past (e.g. on the Primeval Kings) that won't get documented on GWW as I believe it's no longer the policy there to document new information gleaned from GW2. Is it time we had articles on those subjects on GW2W? –Santax (talk · contribs) 16:30, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

For GWW's articles (why discuss that here?) those eras definitely need to have their own pages. On this wiki, I would say only the Primeval Kings (and arguably Primeval Dynasty) needs to be given an article - I'm not so sure we've learned much more about the Primeval Dynasty, but the kings get referenced left and right so people will definitely be searching for the group. I've been intending to make one but was waiting to see if I could uncover more new details so it isn't just a replica of GWW's article with one new name. Konig (talk) 18:01, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

I didn't really mean to bring the gw1 wiki up for discussion here Konig. On a whim, I just added it as a sidenote to my edit summary. Then afterwards, I figured it was a bad idea, and for the sake of good order I just wanted to recall that comment. Case closed.

Regarding this article, I'll let others be the decision makers, but I do agree with Santax. As long as the paragraphs don't become ridiculously small, I think each era deserve its own headline. Titus 19:07, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

The point of discussing GWW's articles is that if we learn any new information about that era from PoF, we can't document it on GWW. Even if all we learn is that there's one more Primeval King, if we don't make a note of that somewhere it risks going undocumented. –Santax (talk · contribs) 08:04, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Crystal Desert

I have a big doubt and I hope someone can confirm it. Elona in gw1 continent the Desert was not considered part of the as it is part of Tyria. However in gw2, I see that there are some articles like this Fanged Iboga, where it is mentioned that the Desert is inside Elona, and if so, I consider that the maps where the desert is included in Elona should be updated, apart from the fact that the map does not show Dzala and this region is part of the continent. --Angelica (talk) 19:49, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

All PoF zones are mechanically one region, which is shared with the first four maps of Season 4 (Istan, Sandswept, Domain of Kourna, Jahai Bluffs). It's listed so in the API. This is what matters most and is what's being denoted.

In GW1, the Crystal Desert mechanical region was released with Prophecies, which was the "Tyria continent", while The Desolation mechanical region, despite being within the Crystal Desert in lore, was part of the "Elona continent". In GW1, every campaign was its own "continent", a mechanical term for world map as much as a lore term for geography - GW2 only has two "continents" in this same sense, Tyria (PvE) and The Mists (PvP/WvW).

Lorewise, both the Tyria and Elona continents are actually part of the same supercontinent called Tyria (think Asia and Europe vs Eurasia but not quite). Similarly, the Crystal Desert has always been the "bridge" between subcontinental Central Tyria and subcontinental Elona - formerly a divider since it was a sea originally. Additionally, The Desolation is part of the Crystal Desert and it is solidly subcontinental Elona (even when main Crystal Desert was a sea). And lastly, lorewise, Elona isn't *just* a continent, but the human kingdom, which has had its boundaries extend at least as far as the Tomb of the Primeval Kings in history, in GW1 context only expanded to Istan/Kourna/Vabbi (e.g., didn't include The Desolation or Crystal Desert despite them being part of subcontinental Elona) and in GW2's context reaches to the Bone Wall in southern Elon Riverlands.

Yes. It gets confusing when ArenaNet uses one word to define 3+ things that are related but different. History of nations in general can get this way, like referring to what is Germany now but in a timeframe from before the nation existed.

To answer the question "is the Crystal Desert in Elona?" Yes, and no. And while it's "yes and no" in both context of GW1 and GW2, the reasons differ. As said, what's in the API - the mechanics - is what's matters most. Konig (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Well, this confuses too much, since I have friends who have been around for a while and ask me why Elona and Tyria treat each other as one and then there is another article about Elona apart, if mechanically it is the same as in the Tyria article, there The map of both continents comes out if it can be called that.

Besides, there is some discrepancy in the Elona article, since it mentions that the Crystal Desert is from that continent, just like Dzalana, but it does not appear on the map, it is only mentioned that it is there, but not seen They don't think this is something silly, if mechanically it's in Tyria to have Elona's article and not have everything unified, I understand that Elona is more of a kingdom of humans and the dead, because it is, but it's better to specify it as a kingdom and not continent how is that put, confuses too much.

Maybe we understand it, but believe me, many just play and do not pay attention beyond whether it is mechanical or not, many only pay attention to the story and what they see in the game. --Angelica (talk) 19:03, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what's being discussed here, Elona is and always has been a geographical continent in GW2, not a mechanical one (which there are only 2, Tyria and The Mists. Yes, Cantha is not a mechanical region). I am not really sure what's the issue, you want to split/merge pages, or just update maps? ~Sime 19:14, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Well, as I told you at the beginning of my message, that I consider that it would be good to update the maps and include the Desert and Dzalana within Elona, because as you have already said, within the geography belonging to Elona these regions, even in the article are It mentions that the Desert and Dzalana is from Elona, so why doesn't it appear on the map, that's my question.

And I don't know why Dragonfall is included in Elona's map, if apparently it belongs to the Endless Ocean. I just want everything to be clear.--Angelica (talk) 19:29, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Let me try to rephrase what I said originally, to make it a bit clearer: Elona isn't a mechanical location in GW2 in any way, shape or form. This article would thus be purely lore. In the current state of GW2, "Elona" in lore can refer to either the subcontinent (consisting of The Desolation, Kourna, Vabbi, Istan, and Dakjah) or the nation (currently consisting of The Desolation, Kourna, Vabbi, and Istan).

• Dzalana is not ever said to be part of the subcontinent, in technicality, and definitely wasn't ever part of the nation.
• The Crystal Desert is in an iffy portion as the southern half, aka The Desolation, is part of Elona, but the northern half (only called Crystal Desert in whole) is not part of the subcontinent but was once part of the nation though isn't in GW2.
• Dragonfall is not (and should not be) included in this page's infobox map. If you are referring to the interactive map (not sure why that's there), that's highlighting the Crystal Desert mechanical region which is NOT the same as Elona. That interactive map is what's incorrect.

I feel like you're conflating mechanics and lore, and making it far more complicated than it needs to be. Perhaps because of that interactive map's presence on this page. Konig (talk) 23:32, 30 April 2023 (UTC)