Talk:Defiance bar

Possible merge

Just a heads-up: it seems this term may be used interchangeably, or simply forgotten, so this page may become useless in the future. – Valento ^msg 19:54, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Just for reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Defiance-and-Soft-Crowd-Control --Seark (talk) 07:45, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Feedback 2015/10/28

Hello! Just wanted to make a note that after doing research, while hard CC does direct damage to the break bar, and immob and chill do damage over time to it, cripple does not actually do damage to the break bar, but it does cause it to regenerate more slowly sort of like how poison reduces healing effectiveness --75.118.152.112 23:25, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

How do Guardians break the breakbar?

Is there a reliable way for guardians to easily break the breakbars of enemies in PvE? --118.101.238.141 21:38, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Weapons: Hammer will be your best bet. It has two hard CCs and a soft CC (Banish, Ring of Warding and Zealot's Embrace). Swap to Greatsword for a pull (Binding Blade).

Utilities: Bane Signet has a knockdown, and Hammer of Wisdom can do one every 15s. If you're using Dragonhunter, Dragon's Maw has a pull as well.

Traits: Dragonhunters also have a grandmaster trait, Heavy Light, that can give you an extra knockback every 10s.

- ROMzombie (talk)

Shield of Absorption is also noteworthy (shield #5, and also on Protective Reviver). Signet of Wrath has an immobilize, and can be triggered indirectly with Wrath of Justice. --Felbryn (talk) 16:56, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Event scaling

This needs some research so saving some data here. Wethospu (talk) 10:40, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Champion Mordrem Guard Cavalier: Before I got tools up, I used Headbutt and he lost 50% of his BB. This suggests the strength is same as dungeon bosses. I got tools up right before he died (when his breakbar had broken and restoring). With 1656270 health his BB restored 3.5% per second and with 1892880 health his BB restored 3.0% per second. No idea about how many players there were. Wethospu (talk) 10:40, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Champion Overgrown Husk: Headbutt did 50% of his BB, standard 30 recharge -> 600 unit BB. 517850 health. I assume recharge stays same 30 units. With 647325 health (+1 scale) I calculated 780 unit BB. Broken breakbar recharges 6.67% so 40 units. 647325 health (+1 scale): 780. 776790 health (+2 scale): 960. 906255 health (+3 scale): 1140. 1035720 health (+4 scale): 1320. 1165185 health (+5 scale): 1500. Wethospu (talk) 13:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

So scaling gives +25% health (additively) and +30% breakbar (additively). If it's standard scaling the first scaling should happen when 6th player gets near. These values also fit the first test. Wethospu (talk) 13:09, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Duration ? Gorseval breakbar ?

Hello, someone can explain this point : How can we calculate the duration of knockback, lunch or pull skills ? Why I break ~50% (~2250) of Gorseval breakbar with my chronomancer ? I use this rotation : f5 (3 illusions + me) - f3 (3 illusions + me) [4s daze] - 5 shield [2s stun] - f5 - f3 (me) [1s daze] - 5 shield [2s stun] for a total of 9*100=900 damages on the breakbar (Gorseval breakbar strength => 4500)

Were you alone without any conflicting runes or traits? Mesmer has quite many ways for passive control. I tested f3 and it did 400 damage with 3 illusions. I also verified Gorseval's breakbar (4500). Unfortunately I can't test the shield. Wethospu (talk) 13:30, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Each of your ff3's are being rounded up to one second. Also, I believe the shield can hit 4 times total if it connects while it's spinning to return. This should add up to 21 which would give you what you're seeing. --192.95.141.139 19:45, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Feedback 2015/12/10

It should be called Defiance Bar. That is the official name (source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-wyvern-in-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns/). The article should mention *also called breakbar* not the other way around. --83.66.118.221 17:32, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

It should probably just replace defiance completely; the tool tips even state: Occurs when defiance is broken. Not really sure if "bar" is necessary if defiance is just the name of the mechanic. And I reverted the move so it can be done correctly. —Mora 00:39, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

The move screw up was my bad, forgot about the move tab. I am an extremely casual wiki editor so I make these kinds of mistakes from time to time. Sorry about that. As for replacing defiance, I actually agree that "bar" is unnecessary. I noticed that the defiance page has a note about it being about an old system that's not in the game anymore and that there's a link to this page there. I think just flat out moving this page to that one would almost make more sense. Souldonkey (talk) 13:56, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Skill details

Any opinions about the skill details table? Does it seem useful? It's info could be merged to the hard control table because most effects seem to be standardized (all pulls and knockbacks work same). Or should it be expanded for all stuns, dazes, etc. making it pretty huge? Wethospu (talk) 08:17, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I think its a good resource for quick lookup of skills that are hard cc's, though I think it would be better if the skills column was separated into profession columns. It is definitely not complete. Several engineer skills are missing. I'm not sure if I should add those skills or wait for feedback. Iceblue (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

There are also traits that can change skills into hard cc skills, such as the dragonhunters' Piercing Light and Heavy Light. Perhaps a section addressing related traits could be added? Iceblue (talk) 08:06, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't think we need to list every skill that can damage the breakbar, since it's all based on how long it applies each CC (the first table). Traits make it even more complicated (Moment of Clarity entry for each ranger stun/daze? nty). I'm ok with non-standard things being listed though (like Signet of Humility or launch durations since that info isn't readily apparent otherwise - it may also be useful to add to the skills' page). We really don't need a table that is just doing basic multiplication for the reader. The creature specific table's info should be moved to the NPCs' articles. That will become a mess (and kind of already is) if it gets expanded. Also creating the missing NPC pages would be good. Toraen - talk 17:01, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

The individual control effect pages will already list skills that inflict the effects, so listing them here is redundant. Same with the NPC pages, which would describe the breakbar on the NPC page itself.--Relyk ~ talk < 17:42, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Yeah it's ridiculous. Should really only list things that aren't really obvious (<1s rounding, push/pull/launch durations, especially since there's 2 different durations for launch, and weird exceptions like stone, freeze, transform, and Gale's x2 knockdown) --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 19:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Surge of the Mist & Slick Shoes

Surge of the Mist can hit 9 times, I don't know if this is relevance but mean 1350 damage to defaiant bar. Slick Shoes (with Superspeed) can hit up to 13 times; this mean 2600+ defiant bar damage.

Cross-Application -- Defiance Bar to Break Bar to Defiance Bar

I just noticed this in a solo instance, but when you apply a soft control skill that stacks duration (such as weakness) and it breaks the bar, it will turn gray, the icon for weakness, and then when the break bar fills and turns back to teal, the weakness doesn't damage the defiance bar, ever, at all, until freshly re-applied. Is this working as intended? 71.87.112.38 18:44, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Is the weakness being applied before breakbar? If it's applied during the breakbar cooldown, that might be why it doesn't cause damage.--Relyk ~ talk < 19:23, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

It's being applied before, but since weakness stacks duration, I guess using it during the break bar re-applies it freshly during break bar? This doesn't make sense at all, since then it would re-apply freshly when it stacks duration when it's back to being the defiance teal bar. But it doesn't damage the defiance bar anymore. According to elsewhere, grey/gray conditions mean that the enemy is immune to it, meaning it can't damage the bar at all. Meaning, Elementalist staff is useless against defiance bar enemies sometimes. Especially when they get permanent immunity to both weakness and chilled. 71.87.112.38 21:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Sink and Float?

Control effect lists sink and float as a control effects, but they're not mentioned on this page. How do they interact with the defiance bar? --Felbryn (talk) 16:33, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

  Weight of Justice in the Aquatic Ruins fractal seems to knock a chunk off the jellyfish boss's defiance bar, probably needs a bit more investigation with other underwater bosses / champs to check for sure --BramStoker (talk, contribs) 07:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Glyph of Tides/Knockback Duration

Glyph of Tides and other knock-back options do not have a duration under their descriptions. Duration shouldn't be used as a unit of measurement. They instead have a distance that should be used. (E.G. Glyph of Tides is 360 Knock-back. Point Blank Shot is either 600, 500, or 400.) What formula should be used here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rainspell (talk • contribs) at 22:27, 5 July 2016‎ (UTC).

That would be handy, but probably untrue. According to the table of durations on the page, Banish (750 launch) has a 2.32 sec duration, while Updraft (200 launch) has a 3.32 sec duration (shorter distance, longer duration); if that's accurate, then there is probably NO formula linking distance to duration or defiance bar damage; duration is an independent variable that happens not to be displayed in the user interface. It's annoying that it's not displayed, but that doesn't mean we should pretend that distance correlates to breakbar damage if it actually doesn't. Instead, you should complain to ArenaNet that they should make the duration (or the defiance bar damage) into a visible skill fact. --Felbryn (talk) 00:11, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

All knockbacks and pulls, regardless of distance, have the same 1.5s duration. The launches are the really annoying ones --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 02:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Thief's Steal also damages the bar

I didn't see any mention of it, but using steal on the boss, or the F1 skill for thieves, will take a good amount from the bar. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.184.172.67 (talk • contribs) at 20:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC).

Is it possible you had the Sleight of Hand trait at the time? --Felbryn (talk) 20:48, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Feedback 2017/05/24

Revenant's Momentary Pacification needs to be removed from the hard cc table, it does not have a daze anymore. --Cinnamonfox (talk) 09:05, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Removed it. Thank you! --Rain Spell (talk)

Feedback 2017/09/30

Black moa now has 1s daze, not 3s. Also need to include the new PoF pets.

Black moa hits 3 times for 1s daze each (the in-game skill fact does not show this though). Toraen - talk 13:45, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Moved the Black Moa to 1s. The table should list the damage per hit of the skill, not the total, in order to account for the mob moving out of the skill. —Intricity (talk) 17:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Mount break bars

Fun fact (maybe suitable for a trivia section?): You gain a segmented break bar internally whenever you're mounted. It's their way of ignoring CC and dismounting you when your HP reaches 0. Screenshot of my mount when it bugged out, revealing the bar: https://imgur.com/t9Fe1EF 47.201.184.160 10:54, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Colour

People keep saying it's a Blue bar, but It doesn't look blue at all to me, it looks like a green-ish Turquoise, but wiki classes it as teal ( which it isn't according to a colou rwheel) so what colour "is" it? (haven't signe din Kuulpb) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.97.201.61 (talk) at 10:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC).

I call it green as well. Problem is, that its color probably depends on graphic settings as well as monitor and personal perception. Also, it's between green and blue in the color palette last time I checked. Teal and turquoise are almost interchangeable names in my language. So I'd just call it blue-greenish maybe? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 46.183.103.17 (talk) at 11:00, 29 July 2018 (UTC).

According to this site it's a Dark moderate cyan. —Intricity (talk) 19:17, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

According to my screenshot what we have is actually a bit lighter(and a bit skinnier) than what is actually in the game (which is a very dark cyan). And technically yes it's not a "pure blue" colour, but let's be honest here, blue is just more common of a word than cyan or teal and people go with what comes to mind first usually in my experience. - Do_odleplex 19:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Revisiting this in 2024

About a year ago, I rewrote this page to have the main sections to the point. Part of this was to describe the bar as blue (which is a basic colour for which it will translate easily across many languages), as opposed to teal. I might settle for turquoise as an alternative colour description. Are there any sources ingame which describe the defiance bar appearance that we can reference? -Chieftain Alex 22:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I want to say that no one uses "teal" or even "green" to describe the CC bar, as a simple Google search shows - everyone uses blue. Ingame tooltip says blue, too, and teal is a BLUE-green color so... ~Sime 22:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I just found this "Defiance Training" event

Which clearly states blue. -Chieftain Alex 22:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Blue is the right word here IMO. Keeps it nice and simple. I've seen it described as a blue bar before, but not as any of the other colours really. Sunlion (talk) 22:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

From an absolute technical standpoint, it is a shade of w:Cyan, which does include both blue and green. Teal (which is a dark shade of cyan) is definitely wrong. Looking at the ratios from an image editor color picker, the amount of blue and green is so close that it's basically a coinflip, but given that both Anet and the GW2 community at large widely refer to it as blue, there's little reason not to stick with calling it blue. - Tanetris (talk) 22:59, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Feedback 2022/06/15

Noticed Harbingers Vile Blast is listed as a 2s stun for 200dmg.

It is a 1s stun for 100dmg, shows correctly when you go to the skills page.

Note 23/04/09

Just starting to collect strike specific breakbars to this page, its my first time editing the wiki so have mercy.

You did well, good start! ~Sime 15:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Strike Mission Defiance Bar Fix

Learned there's an exact method for calculating breakbars, so will review the ones I guesstimated from testing. All values pulled from the tables on the strike mission pages prior to the edit, e.g. KO and HT, aren't guesstimated - these are confirmed exact values. Flutte 18:23, 25 July 2023 (UTC)