Talk:Armor/Archive 2

Archive

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• 2009-2011
• 20011-2012

Screenshots

I'm kind of curious why this page is using concept art even though we do have a few ingame shots of armor. Nothing against the concept art, but it just feels like we should move beyond that now. Or have both.--Will Greyhawk 01:10, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Ok, maybe I should look into getting my glasses perscription updated. Feel free to ignore the above.--Will Greyhawk 01:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Just an idea, why don't we have a scrn cap image catalogue of all full armour sets, including dyes, like in gw1 wiki and how it looks (ie if there are any clipping issues) on all races, I understand if it would take a lot of time to get all armours and skins, but for a complete wiki I think it would be worth it. (if this has already been done then appologies for asking but I can't find an example of this.) - LC 82.19.147.59 13:28, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Repair

Has this ever been a fun feature to anyone? I know how much time and money I spent getting some gear for GW1. I certainly am not going to enjoy replacing those things in GW2. But more to the point, I don't want to play the game, rez to enter the fight again and think "oh, is my gear doing OK... I don't want to loose it, so I'd better check". No! I want to think "OK, here's what I did wrong, what should I do this time?". Even having durability occupy mind share is unappealing to me. And travel time (even through way points... even if waypoints were still free) to fix an item... I don't know, I see no fun in this aspect of a game where they are taking so many steps to remove the little annoyances of other MMO's. --Mooseyfate 17:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree, I'm not sure what the hell they were thinking when they implemented this. I thought GW2 was supposed to be less annoying than other MMO's. I'm already upset that I'll have to pay gold for waypoints and even to res, but now we have to look after our armor? This isn't Neopets....Stop making everything cumbersome, Anet. 71.194.87.164 22:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Your armor only gets broken if you die. And using waypoints costs practically nothing, to my knowledge. Goldsinks like mounts and endless crafting grinds are out, so they need to drain coin from the economy somehow.

I admit I'm not thrilled after seeing the implementation in other games, but the way it happens in GW2, you only have to worry about it if you die a lot, at which point most people (or at least, I) would be heading back to town to take a break anyhow. --ஸ Kyoshi 22:09, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

After the recent Beta I find that damaged armor doesn't bother me so much. The cost is reasonable. As for fast traveling unless you are map traveling city to city(use the Asura gates!) the costs wont affect you too much. With Karma as a secondary currency you find you use the gold for less and less. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.5.160.198 (talk).

Does Damaged armor become Soulbound (either equipped or in inventory) until it is repaired? Rudhraighe 16:08, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Armor Class Tangos

As it is becoming more and more apparent that armor class is incredibly important, perhaps it is time to bat the ball around how to do armor class tangos. I was thinking something like 45-profile masque, bandana and helmet. The main problem is that mesmers already use masks and warriors already use helms, so we would need to it clear the differentiation between them. (I think using the heritage head armor icons as a base could work if we did it correctly). Iconic armor class weapons don't really work either, as the only weapon that is exclusive to one armor class is the hammer. Anyone else have any thoughts? Aqua (T|C) 03:17, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

How about a shield for soldiers? Bandana sounds fine to me. No idea about scholars. Are the icons supposed to present armor style (heavy, medium, light armor) rather than the armor classes (soldier, adventurer, scholar)? Mediggo 06:56, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

What about a circlet, a bandana, and a piece of platemail (chest)? - Infinite - talk 07:10, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that having two heads and one chest would make it clear how the system worked. Maybe like... blue/gold shield (heavy), something with adventurer colors (I'm really not feeling inspired today :/) and some kind of scholar-colors magic symbol. Aqua (T|C) 14:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps a bolt of cloth (cape?), leather patch (an animal hide?) and a bit of metal (shield, chest piece). Make the icons with the default material colours for each, even if with the auto dye application we'd never see those colours? -- aspectacle  18:39, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

I like the references to the materials! I'd definitely go for cloth, leather and metal if it's possible to create simplified icons that still resemble those materials :) - anja 19:57, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Galleries?

That I can tell, armor generally comes as a 'set', where 6 pieces exist with the same naming schema. I wager there will be galleries for these sets of armor... but what format will they take? Torrenal 04:09, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

How do you mean? Do you think there should be galleries on this page, or maybe an article for each "set" with a gallery? :) - anja 20:15, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I am guessing they mean the latter, and yes there have been plans created (long ago) to provide galleries for armor. - Infinite - talk 20:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Oooh, shiney. I've got a couple screenshots that I've pulled together. Given that I saw two other leggings with the identical look, so this may be a placeholder skin, used until offical armor skins are added, but it's a something to build around: File:Devout_Norn_Male_Front.jpg, File:Devout_Norn_Male_Profile.jpg, File:Devout_Norn_Male_Back.jpg -- er, I'm reasonably certain thats their name... alas, the tool-tips I'd been counting on to id things like armor, don't show up in screenshots. :/ Short a headpiece, less than ideal lighting... but enough for us to flesh out a page with something resembling content. Torrenal 01:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm definitely for armor galleries on articles about each set :) How do these sets work, is there a "Devout" set that works for every race? If so, should there be galleries for each race too? - anja 17:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, Infinite mentioned there being plans created long ago for armor. Infinite: Were the plans simply 'to have armor gallerises', or were they somewhat more detailed? I'd rather not hash things out from scratch if they've already been hashed out before. @Astor - I understand it that some armors are made for all races, others are somewhat more specific, and that armors are not profession specific. I expect *some* armor skins will only carry over to a single piece, so a gallery for just the one item will almost certainly be necessary. Where's an example of the a single-piece armor set? Festival hats  ;) If things haven't been hashed out, we can instead start by looking at the GW1 wikis and deciding what worked or didn't work there, and what will auspiciously carry over into GW2 or must be revised. Torrenal 03:33, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

The exact plans were rather simple; have a gallery of multiple shots per set;

• A full set; front, side(s), and back, in a basic (preferably the original) colour scheme.
• The parts individually (or in pairs such as coat and boots, etc.); front, side(s), and back, in a basic (preferably the original) colour scheme.
• The parts individually (or in pairs such as coat and boots, etc.); front, side(s), and back, in a fixed colour scheme to properly point out the dyeable areas (the examples that were used back then were simply [[:File:User_Infinite_dye_chart_example.jpg|mocked up]], but it shows how detailed we could make these galleries (the more detailed the galleries are, the better)).

If anyone fundamentally disagree with that setup now, it'd be the right time to voice such. If not, we still need to decide on the actual colour scheme for dyeable areas. And then preferably make a prototype gallery (for a single set, would suffice) during BWE2. :) - Infinite - talk 07:57, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

That sounds a lot like GuildWiki's armor galleries (random link that coincidentally features my massive warrior in his favorite elite armor set). The fun part is that we now have three (3) dyeable areas on every armor, which means we either have to use a 4 sets of images to show each one individually, or we could try using 3 high-contrast colors (white/black/red) to show them in a single set of images. Either way, it's gonna be a lot more complicated. —Dr Ishmael 12:30, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Thinking of high-contrast as the "fixed" colour scheme I mentioned above. It reduces some work and should remain equally detailed if galleries use high quality screenshots. - Infinite - talk 12:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Getting all the pics and in a good format will be a lot of work, but it'll be fun :) It would be great to start on one of the galleries (or several) with the next BWE so we could have a guide/mockup kind of finished for release. I'm thinking now, should galleries be a separate article from the "fact-article"? The galleries might be quite image-heavy with all the pieces and dyable areas (and possible variations between races and sexes). I was thinking they would be the same article at first, but now, maybe not. - anja 14:50, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

A system like GWW's is probably best (though we can certainly make them look more professional here, by starting out with a carefully planned and prototype'd format for them before implementing). - Infinite - talk 15:00, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed - transcluded subpages like Guildwiki would be too much for one page, especially if we're going to have a gallery per gender per race (i.e. up to 10 subpages) for each armor. —Dr Ishmael 15:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

@Infi: How would they look more professional, to you? (I do not mean to imply I am offended in any way :P). It would be great fun to start working on a skeleton for "fact" and gallery pages with formatting and such :) Is there a consensus on Alfa-R's skin yet, so we can work from that, or should we work very generally? - anja 17:14, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

A few examples as to what should be improved to look professional;

• gw1:Vabbian_armor – this global gallery has no alignment and the tables for displaying them have borders that don't compliment (they clash with) the colours of those tables.
  • Aligning all the profession tables with each other in grid-like fashion, changing the borders (or removing them altogether), as well as possibly changing the format (though not pressing) would be my course of action there.
• gw1:Gallery of female warrior Vabbian armor – the same can be said in this case, minus the aligning (which is properly done there). To me, the borders stand out way too much to enjoy looking at the gallery; they're quite harsh.
  • Changing the colour of the borders (or removing them altogether), and splitting up the full dye chart image into 10 individual images following the same format (thus placing them in a table like the rest) should improve the page.
• gw1:Gallery of male elementalist Vabbian armor – here the tables are not aligned (unique to both elementalist version, at quick glance), which looks out of place (because it is).
  • Alignment would solve this. Other than that the changes to the female warrior Vabbian armor gallery can be applied here, too.

And so on.

The biggest problem you inflict on yourselves over at GWW is the fact that you have a full dye chart for the whole set, but only from the front perspective (most commonly). This leaves me wondering whether or not the other angles (like with the paired parts) will also be uploaded one day. (Removing that and) replacing it with a high-contrast colour dyed version from all sides (which is also done on some armor galleries) would help people note which parts actually dye (a bit of information I usually have to look on GWO for). Consistency is key, regardless.

Though it must be noted that the images—whilst not all uniform in capturing (yet a lot of them are)—are most usually of high quality (for what can be considered high quality in Guild Wars). I've always used the galleries happily when picking new armour pieces to craft, both GWW's and GuildWiki's. - Infinite - talk 17:50, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Yes, I agree with a lot of that (I don't disagree with anything you said), I just wonder if it will be possible to align everything the way you want it to. The wiki will be filled with uneven and badly cropped pics for a very long time, years maybe. We need a design that can work with that, which I don't think the old design at GWW did very well. - anja 18:02, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree with that statement about badly cropped images. The galleries themselves can be coded to give an idea as to how focussed screenshot for the gallery need to be (as well as prefix the width of images that are displayed). User:Torrenal had some ideas on a guideline for high quality screenshots, which we should definitely extend them to the armour galleries. Armour galleries are a real test at any given time and we should aspire to keep the quality high. When badly cropped screenshots and/or obstructed screenshots are uploaded for use in them, we should make it a project to get high quality screenshots to replace them with. I know it's rather radical and sounds new users-unfriendly, but this is the kind of project where such things should be permitted. It will benefit the wiki more then leaving low quality images until much later. - Infinite - talk 18:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) That's a very good point, and even with "perfect" screenshots, it'll still be an issue for galleries of different races because not all images will be of the same proportions. Images for norn (like Torrenal's Devout norn near the top of this section) are going to be much taller than images of the same armor on an asura, and wider than images of the armor on a sylvari. To force the gallery tables into the same width for all of them, taking sylvari as the standard, is going to make the norn images very short and the asura images very tall. Charr present a more difficult problem due to their stance, because profile images of charr armor will be much wider than profile images of any other race. —Dr Ishmael 18:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

If we are making galleries for all 5 races, I can understand if there will be 5 race-dependent widths for images. I think that that is better than things such as not aligning or forcing one width for all images. - Infinite - talk 18:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

That's basically what I was driving towards. You just always sound extremely zealous about "STANDARDIZE ALL THE THINGS!" so it's sometimes tough to tell where your boundaries are for those standards. :P —Dr Ishmael 18:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I had hoped it would've been obvious between the lines that I basically mean standardize between the same types. I should've been clearer and more elaborate with that statement. :D - Infinite - talk 18:28, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Hopefully, we can also come up with a design that makes it less ugly to look at images that are not yet standardized. I. e., no borders, because they show very obviously how it should have been. It should be easy for new users to add images and information, but no user should be offended if said information gets replaced. It's in a wiki's nature to work and rework. Maybe that's what we ought to work into all our new (and old!) members instead. :) - anja 19:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd just like to add 2c on galleries. :)

My favourite pages on gww were the ones which looked like gw1:Monk armor. The gallery equivalent here would probably 'human heavy armor' 'charr medium armor' and so on. The images are uniform and if you're picking an armor to go for based on looks to do dungeon runs, or purchase or what have you they were the best. I'd like very much to have similar here. :) -- aspectacle  19:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

But aligned and pretty! :D - Infinite - talk 19:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Certainly. I'm sure I would love them even more if they were aligned and pretty. :P -- aspectacle  19:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Anyone know about how many sets of armor/clothing will be available per armor type and per race? If it's about a dozen or so per category it'll be okay, but if it's a lot more than that, having all the human light armor in one page like the GWW style might be too much. Isn't there some other categories where we can split things up a bit more like rarity or level range... of course if there aren't that many different types then we don't have to worry about it. --Lania 19:31, 01 June 2012 (UTC)

One complexity I see is that there may be no 'default color' for armors. When I donned that devout armor, most of the pieces took on the color palette I was already wearing for my previous set. I think I had to recolor the leggings to match the top, and perhaps the footwear, but that was it. I'd propose a 'default colors for the main armor screenshots' except I suspect the armor dye scheme will block us by mixing things up (some armor bits have 2 colors, others have 3. And I think the pants recolor was forced on me because the same colors were used, but in a different order than on the previous leggings. That, or a color was added/dropped). This can be averted by saying 'color all sections grey', but I think that would be a major loss for the galleries -- where I find armors shine most in GW2 is in the different colorable sections. So I suggest: Pick 3 default colors, let the person taking the screenshot mix and match as they see fit (I'd suggest a dark, medium, and light brown).

Some questions we probably should keep our eyes open for definitive answer to:

• Do Charr have gender specific armor skins, or are they all gender neutral (do male and female charr all get the same skins?)
• Do any armors render differently by profession? (see also gw1:Chaos_Gloves#Notes, where mesmers get something different from the other professions)
• When transmuting something, does it keep the name that goes with the skin? (this might confuse early armor galleries, if the name does not carry with the skin)
• During the beta, I found 3 differently named leggings with a skin that matched the devout leggings -- If this was not a beta-only thing, but standard, we might benefit from a naming policy for the instance of one skin having multiple names.

Moving on: I think the main drive for people looking at armor will be to find the 'perfect' armor for their character, and the main limitation on what armor skins they can use are race, followed by gender (a male human player won't be looking at armor skins for female Charr). For design, I'd suggest starting from the GW1 pages, but replace profession with race(I think Ishy and Infinite have valid+good input on the layout design). If/where a particular armor does not distinguish between light/medium/heavy, suffix the class-specific pages (Light) (Medium) (Heavy), and have the Male+Female Human images for each appear on the disambiguation page. And YES: Dye shots should include profile and back shots -- the devout armor is nothing without a dye-shot of the back, and it won't be alone in that respect. Torrenal 02:47, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

• I'm pretty sure male/female charr do have different armor skins - in this blog post Kristen Perry talked about wanting the female charr to still have a "feminine" style to them, even though they don't have breasts. I can't find any images that give a direct comparison of male vs female charr in the same armor, though.
• I'm pretty sure they don't - unlike GW1, the base character model (for a given race and gender) is the same regardless of profession, so there's no systemic need for different armor models.
• I would assume the name carries with the skin, since the only thing happening is transferring the stats from the other armor.

That's all I got for now. —Dr Ishmael 14:57, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

There was a post from Regina(?) saying that M&F charr share armors because they were egalitarian like that. I'll see if I can find it. So different armors for sex for the charr might be the exception rather than the norm. -- aspectacle  16:36, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

[1] from the references on the charr page. -- aspectacle  16:38, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Template

(Reset indent) For a look/style, could we bring in the painted look used in the game, the user forums, and now our own main page? Also, is anyone working on a template for armor galleries, or do we have a volunteer? While I've got energy on this, I don't have the time it will need. Torrenal 14:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll see what I can come up with during and after BWE2, alongside my character creation galleries (I know I'm late with those). We'll have something to work with to discuss possible formats and guidelines, as well as colours for the third BWE.

Regarding colours, we should attempt to work with the basic dyes (that all characters start out with) for galleries. It's not only most convenient to work with; we also can't expect contributors to spend in-game or real life currency to include their contributions. - Infinite - talk 15:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Char, Genderless Armor, and galleries

It sounds like Charr will have genderless armor in the game. That then presents us with an interesting dilemma for galleries. I see us doign one of two things:
A) Since the males and females have different body types, still give room for both male & female galleries for the Charr.
B) Since they are the same armors, only allow for one set of screenshots for each. Since the genders have different bodytypes, for consistency ask only for Male(?) screenshots.
I'm ambivalent on this. I see both sides of the argument having merit. Does anyone else want to hash it out to a decision so I don't have to decide by coin-toss? Torrenal 22:34, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

A, for consistency. - Infinite - talk 00:52, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I think the different body types makes it valuable to see the armor for both female and male charr. - anja 08:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I also choose A. Same armor but different body shapes makes A necessary. Also +1 for consistency. --Lania 20:01, 03 June 2012 (UTC)

level requirement

← moved to User talk:151.199.34.243

Cultural

Understandable that the cultural armors are race-restricted, but what about transmutation? Possible loophole to take race-restricted armor, transmute onto non-restricted, and walk away laughing? 67.181.180.101 04:52, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

I too would like to know if there's a way to transfer/transmute the appearance of a cultural armor onto another piece of armor such that the resulting armor isn't soulbound (so that it can be worn by another character of a different race). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.186.18.236 (talk) at 10:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC).

Armor switching between profession ?

Do I understand well ? As long as you belong to the same group (either soldier, adventurer or scholar) and race, you can wear any armor from that profession ? i.e. my human mesmer could wear any human elementalist armor ? DeoX 11:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Armor in Guild Wars 2 falls into 3 categories now; Light, Medium, and Heavy. These categories correspond to the profession groups you mentioned (Scholar, Adventurer, Soldier). So yes, you can wear any armor in your given armor category. --Emelend 11:33, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Awesome! a last question, will we have to buy transmutation stone for that or will it be a standard feature ? Thanks :-) DeoX 11:40, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Armor isn't restricted by profession, but by profession archetype and armor class (Light, Medium, Heavy.) All scholar professions wear light armor, all adventurer professions wear medium armor, and all soldier professions wear heavy armor. Transmutation Stones are used to combine the appearance and the stats of two like items. "Like" meaning two weapons of the same weapon type or two peices of armor of the same armor class. — Rari 11:59, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Ouch, you just added some confusion Rari - Could you define profession archetype (as you seems to make a difference between armor class and archetype) ? NB. So far, it's only a 1-1 relation between armor type and profession type.

Regarding the transmutation stone, I've read the wiki page, but there's no clear answer. If both are lev 80, can my charr engineer wear a charr thief armor as a standard feature of the game (I mean by any acquisition way defined on armor page) or will it be mandatory to use a stone for that ? DeoX 12:53, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Most gear is soulbound (generally on use) so that would prevent you from sharing most of your gear between your characters. Scholar, Adventurer and Soldier are profession archetypes. Each profession belongs to one of them (Elementalist, Mesmer, Necromancer are all of the Scholar professions for example.) Scholars all wear Light armor. Adventurers all wear Medium armor. Soldiers all wear Heavy armor.

Profession Archetype	Profession	Armor Class
Scholar	Elementalist	Light
Scholar	Mesmer	Light
Scholar	Necromancer	Light
Adventurer	Engineer	Medium
Adventurer	Thief	Medium
Adventurer	Engineer	Medium
Adventurer	Ranger	Medium
Soldier	Warrior	Heavy
Soldier	Guardian	Heavy

For an example, these are all adventurers wearing starter armor. Each profession of a profession archetype starts with more or less the same starting equipment. You will see that aside from the visor on the thief (thief specific gear) and the dye (which can be altered at character creation) this gear looks more or less the same, no matter the profession or the race.

Transmutation Stones are only required for combining the appearance of one item with the stats of another (say your new axe has better stats but you want it to look like your old one.) I do not know if you can use them to bypass the race requirements of cultural armor or cultural weapons - that is something that would have to be tested. Generally you can't trade soulbound items to other characters, or even take soulbound items out of the bank on other characters in my experience in the BWEs, so I don't think that would come into play. Edit: SO BASICALLY, you aren't looking for "elementalist armor" you're looking for "light" armor which any scholar profession character could wear. — Rari 13:35, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) To make it very clear, since the OP seems to be stuck on this: there is no thief armor, there is no elementalist armor, there is no <profession> armor at all. There is only light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor. Elementalists, mesmers, and necromancers all wear light armor; engineers, rangers, and thieves all wear medium armor; guardians and warriors both wear heavy armor. —Dr Ishmael 13:48, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks both for trying to enlight me :-) So far for the stats and some definition, we all agree. Now I might have been unclear (partially because of my ignorance) but if there's only (let's say) one light human cultural lev 80 armor. Can my human mesmer looks like that or the light armor appearance will change according to the profession? DeoX 16:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

All armor will look the same regardless of which profession wears it. Yes, your human mesmer can look like that (but not your asura, because that's a human cultural armor). —Dr Ishmael 14:38, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Ok thanks all! Now it's crystal clear :-D DeoX 16:42, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Orders Armor (Order of Whispers • Durmand Priory • Vigil)?

I have seen it suggested elsewhere that the 3 Orders (Order of Whispers • Durmand Priory • Vigil) may have special skin armors. Do they?--Mooseyfate 16:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually, the Orders page says they do. No mention of uniqueness on the Armor#Acquisition section though. --Mooseyfate 16:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Acquisition

I have removed the HoM as a source of armor. Only skins are available, not the actual armor. Darcy 16:35, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Where do you propose categorising armor skins then? Surely, considering the majority of armor stats fluctuate anyway, the way to obtain the look or skin of the armor is more important to players? It is perfectly possible for the page containing the armor skin to then describe the details of the skin and it's available stats. I would have though this a better way of categorisation. RisKQuay 23:49, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Seraph-Issued armor

Missing info about this on wiki. Can buy from from Karma Vendors in Kessex Hills. Chest is the NPC near fort salma, gloves from guard baraby (level 17 heart). Previously Unsigned 10:32, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Armor Pages, Layout and Classification

How is armo(u)r going to be arranged by? I'm not too clear myself on whether the same class (light/medium/heavy) of armor appears differently on different profession characters (e.g. does acolyte light armor look the same on Necromancers as it does Elementalists?).

Presuming it does appear the same, should we create armor pages similar to the Guild Wars 1 Wiki pages (e.g. Elementalist Armor Page)? For example, on the Light Armor page we would have a basic description of scholar armor succeeded by the armor art, by name, with a picture underneath each link directing to a full description of that armor, where it is obtainable, relevant statistics, etc.? However, this would have to be categorised 'by race' as well.

At the moment, the scholar page is synonymous to a "scholar armor" page - would we want a differentiation?

To summarise my rammble, I propose a layout as such: Scholar / Scholar Armor Page; Basic Description; Armor Art (categorised alphabetically by race) with a link to the page specifically for that style of armor

Disclaimer: Unfortunately I'm relatively new to wiki-ing and not a very affluent player myself, so I apologise for any failed formatting or lack of convention-following and I wish I could implement this myslef except I lack the experience/know-how or armor to take pictures with. Sorry. RisKQuay 23:46, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to expand on this and suggest we split the Armor and Equipment section. I'm not implementing any of this myself, as I want to hear other opinions - but I will do soon if I don't get a response. RisKQuay 00:11, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

I responded a bit on my project page, but I'll put it here too. I think all Acolyte armor looks the same, just adjusted for body type and size. It could still be interesting to have images for every race and gender, but I don't think that warrants separate pages for races.

I think we should have a collective page like Light armor, Medium armor and Heavy armor (instead of scholar armor) with galleries as on GWW, but that should link to pages like Acolyte's armor where we would keep more detailed information. Since every armor set and piece can have a multitude of stats and even different requirement levels, I think we should try to keep details on smaller pages, not gallery pages. Galleries would be OVERLOADED if they had details too.

How do you want to split armor and equipment, what is what? :) - anja 04:54, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I totally agree! Sorry if it didn't appear that way; you worded it much better than I did lol. By 'Basic Description' I was simply referring to the small, one or two liner that we already have at the top of the Scholar / Adventurer / Soldier pages regarding Armor and Equipment.

If we created the Light, Medium and Heavy armor pages with galleries - which I'm all for - the only issue is it leaves the actual Scholar / Adventurer / Soldier pages a bit lacking in content. Would the information there be moved to the summary page for all the classes or...? RisKQuay 10:01, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Just want to say that the armor page for Guild Wars 1's gallery was great. Since we have 5 races I think it will be hard. What I suggest is a page mimicking the original (1 page with all the pictures well organized, and links to the stats/requirements/etc) but split into 5 tabs for each race. I also suggest we come up with a basic dye pattern that allows the best visibility. If someone makes the template (I'm no good at that), people will start adding armors pretty quickly. If it wasn't clear I mean these pages : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_armor . So for example, we would have 8 pages x 5 tabs for each class. 142.167.206.113 16:21, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to mention but if someone clicks on an armor's page (example : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior_Templar_armor), then they would get a similar page as that but with basic pictures for all 5 race.

I think, basically, we all agree with each other! This is a good start. I just would like you to clarify what you mean with 8x5 pages, which are those 8? I get that the 5 is the races :) Since we couldn't really have Warrior armor (it's not as relevant), what would you suggest as article names? Do you like "Light armor" etc or propose something else? - anja 17:34, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Btw, I forgot to add, I'm working on putting all our ideas into text and later code, tables and images. You can see the start here: User:Anja Astor/Armor - anja 17:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Armor stats for purchased, looted, and crafted armor scale with the level and quality of the item, and the specific attributes are determined by the item's prefix. We shouldn't document stats on these armors, since they can appear with any prefix at almost any level - instead we need a page that describes item scaling in general.

For cultural/dungeon/order armor, however, they always come with predefined stats, so those should be recorded on the armor pages. —Dr Ishmael 17:52, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Each armor set (crafted/looted etc) could link to that stat page though, so it's easily accesible for everyone :) That's what I meant iwht stats/details at least - anja 18:08, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

BTW what I meant for 8x5 was for each class but I guess there are 0 differences between for example warrior and guardian wearing the same armor? Then 3x5 142.167.135.111 00:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Armor Names: This is kind of in response to what Dr Ishmael said above. For the armor sets (dungeon, Orr), what should the names of the armor pieces be? Is it Light Armageddon Helm of Balthazar, or is it simply Flame Legion Mask (which includes a Rune of Baelfire)? Argument for including the suffix: the armor, as it exists in the game by default, includes the rune and the suffix. Argument for excluding the suffix: the rune can be replaced; the armor's existence is independent of the rune. The vendors list the pieces without the suffix, but when you mouse over the pieces, the popup shows the suffix. Current practice seems to exclude the suffix, but the armor set pages are kind of messy right now.... Buttonmasher 18:15, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I'd say just the armor name, exluding the suffix since the armor can have a different suffix than what is on the wiki. Eastling5689 17:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I also vote for armor name without suffixes and prefixes that can be edited :) Makes it easier to structure and to search imo - anja 19:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Sad to see this never took off. 90% of the reason I used wiki for Guild Wars 1 was the armor gallery page, and the weapon gallery page for each weapon type (non-existent here as well). I'm not sure what everyone else feels but I thought this would've been a priority for the wiki. I'm sure if all the templates/screenshot guidelines were set up, people would fill them out pretty quickly. 142.167.207.11 02:34, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Forgot to add, but also would be nice as no source on the internet is complete and organized, and it can be hard to find certain armor sets. 142.167.207.11 02:35, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I think it is a priority for many of us! But, for me at least, I'm still busy playing the game and trying to wrap my head around all the details and concepts. Plus, many people sure have jobs/school that eat their time too. There will be galleries, but the game is only 2 months old, we have time :) - anja 05:37, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree with IP above, one of the most important parts of guild wiki is the armour gallery, I want to see what armour looks like, where to get it, how much it costs (or what materials are needed) and what stats it gives. This armour page is as confusing as it was from the first time I checked it a couple months ago. ONE guy has put up most of the armour on another website ages ago, but lacks the details of stats/costs/materials that would be intertwined if it was a wiki. I know you guys work hard on the wiki, but this armour page at least has shown almost no improvement and is one of the main things -I- atleast used the gw1 wiki for. To be perfectly honest I am annoyed at A-net not contributing anything, why do players have to speculate about particulars and get their own screenshots? A-net should have galleries and figures all ready compiled in nice tables and files that could easily be transferred to the wiki. 213.1.224.226 13:21, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Considering you can preview every armor (or at least MOST) in-game, play with dyes, etc. - either through the PvP locker or an in-game chat - not having galleries on the wiki is not that big of a deal. Especially when most people just expect them to show up without contribution. The wiki is managed by THE PEOPLE, but if THE PEOPLE aren't willing to help gather screenshots and crafting/acquisition details, then THE PEOPLE shouldn't complain. Scroll to the bottom of the page and check out the armor project I'm working on. I took a screenshot with the dye remover of every Light armor available to human males. Sure, it's not complete (components, like the original wiki) and the resolution isn't great. But it's a start. I think the initiative (or at least the graphical representation of what COULD be) should spark interest in others who have better/faster computers, and a few minutes to gather some screenshots. The way I see it, if something is missing and you have the means to at least get some of it online, then put it up! --Kristofferus 22:24, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll start contributing screenshots when there is a gallery laid out in an easy to access format, not only for viewing purposes but also to see which armours are missing and what format they need to be shown in? (font/back, image aspect ratio, dyed, single peices or just the whole set etc. etc.) From this page I should be able to get to any armour gallery (crafted: light,medium,heavy cultural: human, charr, asura, norn, sylvari order: prioriy, whispers, sigil karma: x,y,z dungeon: x,y,z starter: light,medium,heavy) if the galleries are not organised in a systematic way like this, it will most likely be confusing and annoying to navigate. Experiment with tables to see what looks better w/e. There are so many more categories than gw1, so yes more time will need to be spent making it easy to find what you are looking for. TD:DR, I'll contribute if you get an effective gallery set up, deal? "Build it and the screenshots will come" :P 213.1.224.226 13:07, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Why not make up the gallery structure yourself? - anja 18:28, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm unsure whether that question is sincere or rhetorical, but I suspect the wiki will tend to have more contributors if you don't respond to people offering to do a limited but non-zero amount of volunteer labor by asking "why aren't you doing more?" Tends to make people feel unappreciated. --Felbryn 20:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

IP, I invite you to fill in the gaps on my userpage. User:Kristofferus/Armor/Human. but if you do, make SURE you follow the image sizing exactly as I have. Otherwise I'll have to edit the images myself. But take a look there. That page is called initiative. I took every single screenshot, wrote every single line of code. Do I have better things to do with my life? Sure. I'm a senior in engineering school. But I took the initiative to start that page to try and spark some interest in the issue, and hopefully someone will come around and do a better job than I did. All I am asking you (or anyone) to do is to fill those broken image links with the appropriate screenshot. But again, please look at the image size of the other images and try your best to keep them at that size. The sizing I use is as follows: if you crop the image from the TOP LEFT most pixel in the Helmet icon, and crop until the BOTTOM LEFT most pixed in the Clear Preview button, you should get exactly what I have. Some images are plus or minus one pixel, but since it's on my userpage it doesn't really matter. But please, go take a look at the page and let me know what you think ON MY TALK PAGE. Thanks! --Kristofferus 23:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, if you look at the parent page User:Kristofferus/Armor you'll see that the simple menu on the right should suffice to get to whichever page you're looking for. It is a work-in-progress, but I intend to include on the bottom a table with links to every single gallery parent page. For example, I'll have one row for Races, one row for classes (light/med/heavy), one row for dungeon, and one row for PvP. (forgot to sign) --Kristofferus 23:41, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

<reset> That is a very good job kristoff, what you have there is exactly what I was talking about. The only thing I would ask is if you could set up the other pages (asura, charr etc.) with as much structure as you can manage. If the box is there I (or anyone else) can easily just upload a picture and it will not mess up the structure. The reason, Anja, that I asked someone else to make the structure, is because I cannot. That's right, a common user is not familliar with wiki code (what are the odds!?). I am familliar with print screens, cropping and the guild wars interface however. I could learn to wiki code, and get everything consistant with someone else's work, and spend a lot of time with a very high risk of it not working out. Or I could ask those that know how to make a good wiki layout to make a good wiki layout, Kristof has done just that. TL:DR I'll let the pros worry about the particulars, just give me a box to upload pictures. You dont want nub chefs getting in the way of cooking good broth! 213.1.224.226 13:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

oh and if I didn't make it clear enough, Kristoff that is an ideal layout, you have done a great job! 213.1.224.226 13:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Broken and Damaged Armor

Does damaged armor have it's stats/bonuses reduced, and if so by how much? Also (since it has never happened to me), is broken armor more expensive to fix than damaged armor?--152.14.246.193 15:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Think of it like a car windscreen, a chip can be repaired, a smashed windscreen needs replacing. I'm less sure about the statement re repairs as i'm almost certain i've had deaths that did not incur any damage several times. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.168.104.83 (talk) at 07:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC).

Maximum Armor Values

Hiya, as i never found any "maximum armor values" page, i thought about puting some stuff in this section.

as of now i found the highest armor values in devinitys reach at the cultural armor tier 3 NPC.

-	Light	Medium	Heavy
Head	65	86	107
Shoulder	65	86	107
Upper Body	278	299	321
Lower Body	171	193	214
Hands	118	139	161
Feets	118	139	161

maybe updating this list with maximum findings would be good until there is a confirmed maximum for armor values.

regards, RR

Those appear to be rare values. Exotic armor has ~8% more armor, you can find this easily by searching the trading post. Manifold 17:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

but that brings up a good question - should we be listing armor rating here with armor rarity included? Will this be beneficial for newer characters or those who are just looking for information?A Liability 00:18, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Gallery revival

So it's been a while since anything has been posted on the manner, and I see there is no change. While I think it would be a LOT of work to be done (at least initially, setting templates,e tc) it would pay off BIG TIME. My suggestion is as follows:

• Clicking the Armor page brings you to the default page, where at the very top it lists the three categories; namely: light, medium, heavy.
• Clicking on any one of the three links leads you to a page, very similar in style to the GWW armor pages only these wouldn't be organized by profession, instead by class.
  • It could/should also feature Male and Female thumbnails of the full set. Clicking on that set's name will bring you a page with acquisition details (which are the same regardless of gender), which then offer a link to each of the Male and Female galleries.

An example of how this would play out is this: to view the female Embroidered armor set, one would click: Armor../Light../Embroidered../Female. This would have to be a community project where everyone gathers the images for the armor, preferably within the dye preview window (so background and lighting are constant) and at high-resolution setting, by using the "default" dye schemes. Default schemes can be achieved by removing the dye from any existing armor prior to previewing new armor. One of the first responses I'll likely get for this is "well, then go do it." But like I said, this is a community task and cannot be completed by anyone by themselves. Now all armors are available for preview at the PvP Locker, but often it's much faster/easier to compare armors using a simple web-interface like the wiki. Any thoughts?--Kristofferus 01:44, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

(EDIT) So I went ahead and put together this very BASIC example of what I meant. note that while I linked some things, only the Scholar armor page is actually up. so click here (it's a modified Armor page), look on the right for the nav bar, click on the scholar, and you'll see what I mean. note that all images would have to be pre-formatted to avoid unnecessary coding of tables to make them match/line up. User:Kristofferus/Armor --Kristofferus 02:05, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

That's really helpful and exactly what most people are looking for I believe. If someone made the template for the whole thing, people would fill out the rest of the pictures pretty soon I think. One of the big questions : Should we simply use human pictures (most basic looking race) for the gallery page, or have 5 different gallery pages, one for each race? IE when you click scholar, you go to the gallery page you made; then you get 5 tabs to choose from if you want to choose the other races, with human being the "normal" page. I think having all 5 races on 1 page would be way too much clutter. I do think people will want to have all races eventually though. But great job! Love it! Now, if someone has an armor set not on the page, it will be so much easier to add it, and everything will be ordered. 142.167.210.136 23:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

The armors look identical on Humans, Norn, and Silvari. They are scaled on Asura, but the headgear is a little different to accommodate ears. Charr armors looks very similar, but because their bodies are shaped different it does look somewhat unique. I say have human defaults, as I have, and when clicking on the male/female links that take you to the gender-specific galleries, we could include all 5 genders. That way the default page only features one picture per set per gender, while the gender-specific galleries feature more views, such as component (individual) views, and the five races. Hopefully this can be done before the expansion is released. If I had to guess (wishful thinking), we'd be getting Tengu as a playable race and (re)introducing the continent of Cantha. It would be cool to get the Wardens as playable races, too. By the way I don't know when you looked at the page, but I just added all the human female light armors to the gallery as well. --Kristofferus 00:05, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Asura and charr have no gender differentiation in armor, so there's no reason to do both male/female galleries for those races. —Dr Ishmael 00:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Cultural armors differ between races, I believe. --Felbryn 01:20, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Cultural armors are unique to each race. I don't understand your statement, nothing I said above contradicted this. And Dr, just for consistency, if we'll have a Male and Female gallery for everything, even if it looks the same, it's only fair to have it for identical sets. --Kristofferus 05:31, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Naming consistency - this needs ironing out

Question - is there anything in progress to "consolidate" some of the armor madness that exists in game? Let me give you some examples:

• Starter caster armor is called Apprentice Armor. There is also PvP Apprentice Armor, which looks exactly the same, so those names match. However, at higher levels in PvE, the same armor skin drops as "Acolyte Armor". But this is a different skin than Acolyte's Armor, which is crafted only. Acolyte's Armor is known in PvP as "Acolyte Armor (1)". Then you have PvP Acolyte Armor (2), which is known in PvE as "Feathered Armor" and only craftable.

• Shadow Garb crafted armor is known as PvP Dry Bones armor, and the same skin is also available in Kessex Hills from Karma Merchants with NEITHER of the previous names I believe.

• Then you have Durmond Priory, which uses the same skin for the story version and version you buy with gold, but this skin is not to be confused with a KARMA one from hearts in Bloodtide.

We need some consolidation here - merging of the same skins into one page, noting how one skin may have duplicate names, that there are similar named items but differnet skins, etc. I can't believe some of this to be honest. It's unnecessary to have different PvP armor names for one (not the wiki, but the fact it exists like this in game). Previously Unsigned 01:34, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

This was the case with GW1 as well. I think the way GuildWiki/GWW handled it was to base everything off the PvE vendor-crafted name (which was the most commonly referenced version), and then redirect as needed, including all name variations in the lead paragraph. For GW2W I think it would serve to follow a similar example. 65.87.26.122 01:47, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to put a link on requests for comment too I think, to hopefully get input on it. Previously Unsigned 02:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I think we should definitely have a page for the ARMOR ART. For example, Shadow Armor. Names that are seen in Karma Merchants, PvP, or with prefix/suffixes should be omitted. The trouble is acquisition. This is because PvP armor can be crafted in the Mystic Forge, whereas PvE armor can be bought with gold or karma, crafted, received as loot, or quest rewards. So at the very least, we have to have PvE and PvP splits. But I agree, the armor system needs a MAJOR overhaul. But NOT until we fully understand the armor system. For example, find out the ACTUAL name of the armor (whether it's Dry Bones or Shadow). --Kristofferus 05:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

PvP doesn't have to be crafted, it drops out of reward chests too. And I don't think they should be split at all. I think the best way would be to decide on using PvE or PvP naming first (like above) and then each armor page isn't about a specific item, but about the skin in general instead. It would start by saying something like "Apprentice Armor, also known as PvP Apprentice Armor, or Acolyte Armor (level xx-80 drops)", something to clarify the names the skin uses. Then one section would be aquiring that skin in PvE (every method listed), another for PvP, and then notes about items with similar names or confusion. I don't think things should be omitted because they are still in the game, and if they have the same skin, they can be succesfully listed on the corresponding skin page and probably wouldn't take up much space. Previously Unsigned 00:51, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't think pages should be skin-based. The same skin could be acquired in so many different ways, with different stats and names. For skins obtainable from many different PvE areas, how you decide which is the most "important", and gets the page name? And when people look for "cool armor x" they're going to be confused to end up on the "armor y" page where they have to look around to identify which which armor is the one they wanted. A "this armor shares its skin with x, y, and z" note can cover the (less important) need to find identical-looking items. Manifold 01:50, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

When a skin is obtainable from a ton of different areas, will it really have the same name each time? Are you talking about random drops? Well the latter part I already covered about with the short name intro and using the table of contents. If you're in PvP, you'll click PvP on the side. If not, PvE. I don't see how that's complicated. Previously Unsigned 11:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)