User talk:Towelcat

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Deletions[edit]

Hey Towelcat. Regular users cannot delete articles, but they can tag them using the delete template. Don't worry, I annihilated the page you tried to create, since pages with ampersands don't appear to work. —Ventriloquist 08:32, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

thanks, didn't know about the deletion template :B
i love all the work you guys do on this wiki, the quality is what drives me to contribute my math research :> Towelcat (talk) 11:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. I hate math and coefficients and skill facts so I'm very much grateful for your contributions in that field. —Ventriloquist 11:28, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Base ingredients lookup[edit]

Sorry for late reply. I wasn't quite sure what you were trying to do...

Sample Result
{{Base ingredients|Opal Orb}}
Quantity Material Buy price Material cost
1 Opal Orb.png Opal Orb ... ...
Total cost ...

{{Base ingredients|id=3433|Opal Orb}}
Quantity Material Buy price Material cost
5 Pile of Incandescent Dust.png Pile of Incandescent Dust ... ...
2 Opal Crystal.png Opal Crystal ... ...
Total cost ...

--BryghtShadow (talk) 09:02, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

It was the second one that I was after. Thanks for the help! Towelcat (talk) 10:08, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
No problem :) --BryghtShadow (talk) 12:14, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Bwah[edit]

I knew I'd get it wrong. I didn't really have the patience to figure out what the average damage of the hit with Rending Claws was... do you pick one of the target golems with the armor notes on them (that you added)? And how many times do you hit the golem (once every 5 seconds, discounting the second hit and dividing by 1.01 to remove the effects of vulnerability?) -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:45, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Also, you're awesome for doing what you do. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:57, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Nah, instead of hitting a golem for ages (I only do that when I want to confirm the accuracy of the tooltip), I just go into HotM and look at the tooltips. Tooltip Damage * 2597 / Power / [lvl78 exo avg weap str] to get the coefficient. I've got a table on my user page with weapon strength midpoints of level 78 exo (pvp), level 80 exo (wiki standard), and level 80 ascended. It doesn't help that ANet gives vague, rounded % increases. 0.88/0.77 = 1.14286, but they rounded it up to 15% in the patch notes.
When doing coefficients you also have the option of comparing the skill to another skill with a known coefficient in the chat box, but you have to be wary of some inconsistent bugs related to the weap str it picks (690.5 base in chat box, but SOME skills are offset by a percentage depending on the weapon they're from while others of that same weapon aren't).
Also, you're even more awesome. The amount of work you've put into this wiki is astounding, I'm just a little number bitch nerd :B Towelcat (talk) 00:13, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Coefficient magics request[edit]

Hey Towelcat, I've put together a little tool to calculate coefficients and damage facts for those (including me) that aren't so good at calculating these by hand. To make sure this tool is doing the right maths I'd love to have you take a look at it and tell me what's wrong/what can be improved. Thank you in advance! —Nefastu (talk) 22:27, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Looks good for the most part, seemed to calculate most things without problems.
'Bundle': [690.5, 922.5, 952.5, 1000],
should be changed to
'Bundle': [690.5, 922.5, 922.5, 922.5],
as bundle tooltips always use 922.5 in the tooltip calculation (as well as their level 78 and level 80 exotic base damage values). When you have an ascended weapon the value for damage dealt is increased by 5%, but the tooltip damage still displays with 922.5
I don't know if I would bother including transform skills on this tool, as they've had a history of being inconsistent and untrustworthy since the launch of the game. There's even a bizarre "bug" with transforms where they do something like 40% more damage in PvP. I've spent too many hours trying to figure out how transform skills and phantasm skills calculate their damage and I've just about given up on it.
When dealing with multi-hitting skills, calculated damage should be [# of hits] * round[damage per hit] (all damage tooltips are rounded to nearest, and multi-hitters are rounded for every hit rather than once at the end).
I don't know if I would include the "level 77 fine" weapon strength. I would instead call it "unequipped", as it's only ever used in chatbox tooltips (though some skills are offset by a % based on the weapon they come from) and for non-weapon skills (sigil/rune procs, traits, utils)
sorry for poor, rambly english, i'm tired. hopefully some of this helped :x Towelcat (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for your input! I've updated the tool based on your feedback and adjusted the transform weapon strengths a bit, based on two tests I did: test #1: Signet of Humility transform skills and test #2: Tornado transform skills. I don't know if a weapon strength of 772.5 is used for all transform skills, but it's a start.
Regarding "level 77 fine" and "unequipped" weapon strengths: these seem to be the base values for chatbox tooltips since HoT (based on your comment here). There is a suggestion I made over here to normalize wiki damage facts; I'd love your input for this as well :) —Nefastu (talk) 13:52, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I actually suggested a skill damage overhaul on a talk page somewhere a few months ago. My idea is that we should add another parameter to the skills for weapon type (or strength, whichever is easier) and calculate the damage as the page is loaded. I think we should also use level 80 exotic as a default, but possibly provide ascended/pvp values as well if possible.
weapon = Axe, coefficient = 3.0. Page would then do Damage = round(1000 * 952.5 * 3.0 / 2597)
I don't think normalizing every page to use 690.5 WS would be a good idea because then your average user would not be able to compare skills of different weapon strengths without knowing the formulas involved. Utilities would show numbers that could easily compete with weapon skills, but in-game they would be doing ~70% of the damage.
A couple months ago some guy told me to start writing down my notes and discoveries somewhere (instead of memorizing them like a fool), and, while incredibly unorganized/imcomplete, here they are: http://pastebin.com/SGa0cMrv
You're inspiring me to look into transform skills again. i'm going to regret this i can already feel it in my bones Towelcat (talk) 21:04, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
I created User:Nefastu/Damage calculation and this template. I'd like to use the page to have a place for the notes you linked, and to have an overview for inconsistencies regarding damage facts.
This may be better suited for a project, I don't know. Just some thoughts on how I'd improve the wiki.
I'll clean up the page and group skill types (e.g. spirit weapons) tomorrow, need some sleep now. —Nefastu (talk) 02:02, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

attack speeds[edit]

Heya, I am trying to look into this attack speed stuff you mentioned on the reddit thread, and might be able to figure something out with the skill data dump that happened a while back. However, in order to understand what I'm seeing, I need at least 1 point of reference. So could I bother you to figure out 1 or 2 attack speeds for certain attacks? I am thinking of looking at Hundred Blades, Fireball, and Lava Font on my end, and would love to have confirmation from someone else on what I find. -Darqam 17:16, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Damage Multipliers[edit]

Heya,

So I'm not 100% sure if this is something you would care for, however as of ~11 days ago, there was a new fact added to the skills in the API set as a damage modifier. You can see the comment here, and an example with Drake's Breath. At a quick glance it doesn't seem to match up to what is on the wiki, but maybe it will help with something? -Darqam 04:19, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

It does add up! Each hit has a damage multiplier of 0.7, and the skill hits 4 times. Now the more interesting things are Phantasmal Berserker, api entry or Deathly Claws, api entry. But - there is no info on transform skills like Claw (Moa Morph), sadly.
But still, this is huge! This would be a great moment as well to expand the damage skill fact template to accept coefficients and weapon strengths. \o/ —Nefastu 14:52, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh cool, glad this will be useful then. As for the transform skills... yeah not all, if barely any, get on the API; iz sad. -Darqam 15:03, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
I ran a script through the wiki & API (Read-only because I'm not 100% confident in auto-writting this stuff). The results are on User:Darqam/SkillCoefficientInfo. The more interesting sections will be the first one, where things need to be manually checked, and the second section where things are confirmed (I think?) to be incorrect. I might take a look into doing it automatically, but not at the moment. I want to first have things done manually a bit to make sure nothing is horribly wrong. -Darqam 17:28, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
There are some mismatches due to formatting, e.g. Banish: 1 != 1.0; or Well of Suffering 1*6 != 6.0. If you want to refine your script, the mismatch list will most likely be much smaller. —Nefastu 17:48, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh I didn't notice that, yeah I'll get a fix on it in a few minutes. -Darqam 17:53, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, page is updated. I've removed the 'matched' entries since that is redundant info. I've also added the skill IDs since sometimes skills will have the same name and ID is the only way to tell them apart. This made the lines slightly more cluttered, but necessary I think. -Darqam 18:28, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

Verfication[edit]

Hello Towelcat. Is there a toweldog? Anyway, could you perhaps verify this note about Hip Shot? It dates back to 2015, but it was never verified so I'm hoping you could since you're well experienced in that field. —Ventriloquist 00:14, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Xyonon's sheet (http://i.imgur.com/cBxeWM4.png) shows it to be 0.84, and I just ran a quick verification test of 100 attacks that took roughly 84 seconds. DEKeyz (reddit name, or DEKeyzToChaos.7381 in-game) should have just about every cast time recorded. You could probably ask her for a copy of her spreadsheet. —Towelcat (talk) 02:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Towelcat! I'll send her a message. —Ventriloquist 10:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Something useful for the next weeks/months[edit]

Hey Towelcat, just in case you missed it: you can now set |weapon=xyz for damage skill facts, only the coefficient is required. An overview of valid weapon labels can be found on Template:Damage calculation. I guess this will be useful for the next weeks/months for all balance changes and all new specialization skills/traits. —Nefastu 21:00, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh shiiiiiiiit. I've only been wanting this for the last two years now lol. I'd be careful with using transform, as there are some weird bugs between the game modes. IIRC they use level 78 exotics in PvP and 78 fines in PvE. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Towelcat (talkcontribs) at 21:08, 7 August 2017 (UTC).
Yay transforms! Well I guess for transforms we still can use the old method for damage skill facts. —Nefastu 21:24, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Holosmith Photon Forge coefficient and weapon strength fun[edit]

Hey there, so the API reveals the coefficient on photon forge skills via Crystal Configuration: Storm: API link. Via tooltip from my skill bar in PvE I'm getting a weapon strength of weapon strength = damage done * armor / power / coefficient = 391 * 2597 / 1000 / 0.9 = 1,128.25 and 313 * 2597 / 1000 / 0.72 = 1,128.973. I've updated all photon forge skills with the new weapon strength, I just wanted to let you know in case you did not notice this info being available on the API (and maybe encourage you to redo your tests on reddit a week ago :D ). —Nefastu 17:55, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

I think they actually forgot to update their API listing for that trait when they nerfed the skills before expac. Going off of the trait tooltip and using 690.5, I'm getting 0.9 coefficients instead of the API 1.0 ones. All the other transforms use 1015.0 WS as well, and the tooltip coefficients are much cleaner with it. -Towelcat (talk) 19:40, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
Further correction: The weapon bar tooltip isn't displaying the traited version when the trait is selected. The traited autos do 10% less damage. -Towelcat (talk) 21:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Question for you[edit]

I was wondering if perhaps you would be able to find out the answer to this? You seem to be good with all the math/numbers that goes into skills, and while I know it's not a skill, I was thinking perhaps you'd be able to help out here. Cheers! - Doodleplex 22:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Boomer[edit]

--Scuzzy Beta (talk) 04:29, 19 March 2019 (UTC)