Talk:Thaumanova Reactor

Déjà vu

<sigh> --Claret (talk) 21:12, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

All the Inquest researchers talk about chaos magic and have done since release, but Scarlet's dialogue in the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal ("I told the Inquest chaos energy was a misnomer. Mind you, dragon energy is tricky, so I can see how they flubbed it.") clearly retcons this to be dragon magic. She's talking to herself, so there's no intention to mislead anyone on her part, and being the genius she is I think it's safe to say she knows her stuff. To say that it was "chaos magic and latter added draconic energies (inaccurately believed to be more chaos magic by the Inquest)" has no basis in anything in-game, and is a user-created theory presented as fact stemming from the assumption that everything that any NPC says is unreliable. Fact is, unless you know more about the nature of magic than the Inquest or Scarlet, then all you can write about is what is stated in-game.

I've had my 1RV (which is more than can be said for Konig), and I'm not going to waste my time or anyone else's by having a massive debate here. I just wanted it on the record that the article as it stands is misleading, perhaps intentionally so. I get that everyone is bored of this by now, but this stuff does matter, and I've been the only person with the energy to challenge Konig and ensure that things are accurately documented - until now. This will be my final comment on the issue. --Santax (talk · contribs) 21:44, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

What exactly is "chaos energy"? Do we know anything about it other than that its what the inquest/asura call the results of the reactor explosion? And has it been explicitly stated that dragon energy was a discrete and later addition to the already existing chaos energy? Psycho Robot (talk) 21:48, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Ellen Kiel stated, if you talked to her in Crow's Nest after doing story mode of Fractals during Fractured (the dialogue is not on the wiki, but I did get a screenshot of it so I can upload once I get home, it isn't on my laptop) that the Inquest studied both chaos magic and dragon energies. On top of that, you have Chaos Beasts, Chaotic Materials, the OOC Chaos Crystal Cavern, and Heltt mention of chaos rifts which are teleporting creatures about.

Scarlet not once states that all chaos magic being researched was dragon energy. There is basis, you just clearly never saw it because it was hidden. We have everything that indicates - both IC and OOC - that chaos magic was involved somehow. Even the Thaumanova's successor, Infinite Coil Reactor deals with chaotic materials (see nearby events). Konig 22:11, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Evidence that they are two wholly different types of energy would help settle this dispute. There is however some ambiguity in what scarlet says, about chaos energy being a misnomer. It can mean one of two things. First, it could mean that "chaos energy", a form of energy different than dragon energy, is not actually chaotic, as its name would suggest. The other possible meaning is that the term "chaos energy" itself is incorrect, and people only think that it is different than dragon energy. If the dialogue you're referring to does not conclusively prove one way or another, then in the interest of comprehensiveness, the fact that chaos energy might be the same as dragon energy should be mentioned, with the caveat that its not confirmed. Scarlet is insane, but she's no stupid, so saying "she's crazy so you can't trust what she says" isn't really justifiable. Psycho Robot (talk) 22:28, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

I am utterly baffled how people can take one NPC's words over the long-standing evidence (both introduced before and after said one NPC's words) of something's existence when we know that NPCs can and are fallible - genius or not, she's not exempt from the rule especially when we know she's wrong about at least one thing (what she saw in Omadd's machine, words of Scott in interview that's linked on Scarlet Briar). Case in point. Tomorrow I do my 16 hour drive home. When I get home, I shall not only put up Kiel's dialogue but also a picture of it. Her investigations conclude with her stating that the Inquest experimented/researched/whatever both chaos magic and draconic energy. Konig 06:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Maybe so, but would it kill the article's legibility and comprehensiveness to include scarlet's quote and that it might indicate that chaos energy and dragon energy are one in the same? Psycho Robot (talk) 23:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Currently on my way home, so not at desktop to provide Kiel's dialogue, but you do realize that such a claim would mean that mesmers are using dragon magic right? And let me iterate that dragon magic is corruptive. So to claim all chaos magic is dragon magic is to say all mesmers are dragon minions of causing drqconic corruption. So yes, I would say such a claim is not helping the article. At best, you can only argue what Santax was - that all the chaos magic the Inquest were studying was dragon magic (huge difference), and even that is never hinted by Scarlet. In fact, I never removed the bit about Scarlet and her statement, I hope you realize. Rather, I just took out the presumption that she refers to all of the chaos magic the Inquest were studying. Konig 01:18, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Added the dialogue, first thing I did. Not what I recalled but still points to them studying both. "the facility was intended to study chaos magic, but the Inquest and their so-called "specialist," Scarlet, pushed things in dangerous new directions." - this more or less tells us that chaos magic was studied there, but the Inquest ventured further (hence "new directions"), the following line ("They claimed there was a link between the Thaumanova's chaos energy and Elder Dragon energy.") indicates that there is indeed a difference, but that there's a link to it. To outright state both are the same is - as Scarlet said - a misnomer. Konig 09:47, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

It was my understanding that all magic came from dragons. They wake up, suck up all the magic, then go back to sleep, where it "oozes" out to become avaliable for use. I don't think the "chaos" spells bear any distinct or special relationship to the "chaos energy" in the reactor, and the name just references the fact that the outcome of the magic is unpredictable in both cases. I'm reminded of the jotun historian in Hoelbrak who said that the magic right after dragons came out was chaotic, but after they went back to sleep the energy levels dropped it became more manageable. I predict that more information will come to light as this scarlet arc (finally) comes to an end, concerning dragons and their connection to magical energy, so I reckon this can be left alone till then, I just don't think its as cut and dry as you're making it out to be. Psycho Robot (talk) 17:52, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

True, all magic does seem to cycle through the Elder Dragons. But when the Inquest or other NPCs refer to "draconic energies" or the like, they're referring to the corruptive stuff that comes about only when awake. See: Crucible of Eternity, where the term is used en masse and about the corruptiveness. I think you should take a look at the lore behind the Chaos attribute of mesmers - in GW1, a large number of spells were "chaos damage" and their magic is, if memory serves me right, often referred to as chaos magic in both GW1 and GW2 - the non-illusionary/mental stuff at least (aka the reality bending stuff, which is more prevalent in GW2 than GW1).

Thruln the Lost is a non-reliable source - as I stated earlier indirectly - because he's outright wrong on half of his information, and all of his information comes via oral tradition (which is, on multiple cases, used as a "this is wrong knowledge" scenario - see krait religion).

I did an alteration to the intro line, as that seems to be what Santax and you disagree with the most, to better reflect Kiel's dialogue and make it a bit less "cut and dry." Konig 18:46, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Opening Quotation

Although Scarlet's quotation elaborates on the origins of the Thaumanova Reactor explosion, it applies more to the incident than the ruins currently in Metrica Province. I believe that the researcher's quote as you enter the reactor, "When the reactor blew, the world's fabric turned inside-out. Some things will never be the same." is much more fitting and should be used instead. --User:JonathanHart (talk) 21:50, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Welcome, time traveller dude. — snograt 22:02, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, I wasn't aware of the signature shortcut, and manually inputted the information. JonathanHart (talk) 01:08, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Just a gentle ribbing, old chap. Maybe you could throw up a few words on your user page and introduce yourself... :D — snograt 11:18, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Jumping puzzles...

The text mentions jumping puzzles in some places.  It would be helpful if they were described a little more explicitly.  At least a hint about what is at the end of each of them would be a great help.  Without such a hint, it's hard to tell when you have reached the end of one.  Of course, spoilers would be even more helpful for the impatient. -- Crazy Old Man (grumbles) 02:19, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Agreed for the guide, as for what's at the end, it's a charging station for your key; at each one ;) -Darqam (talk) 03:14, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Walking (and fighting) Hazmat Suit NPC?

I'm not sure if it's mere coincidence and a random spawn or intentional, but I just saw a Hazmat Suit (it was an NPC with no dialog option) walk around and kill creatures - it even attacked one of the misplaced champions (and doing well).--Cyberman 18:19, 14 February 2018 (UTC)