Talk:Norn

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"Physiology"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the entire physiology section seems to discuss norn clothing, and mention a part of their physiology as a reason for not wearing excessive amounts of clothing. Shouldn't physiology be things like height, typical appearance (blond and redhead) and that kind of thing? Aqua (T|C) 16:38, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

And their ability to shapeshift, yes. Basically they're large humans with shapeshifting abilities and able to retain heat well. There's at least one norn who isn't blonde or redhead, btw. -- Konig/talk 17:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry...but yeah, that section needs a rewrite. Aqua (T|C) 17:41, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious I'm working my way through the race articles? I'm getting to it - be patient it takes me some time. -- aspectacle  18:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I might have overlooked it, but where is the reference to the statement that norn can interbreed with humans? Also, where is it said that they can retain their body heat better than for instance humans? Nohjo 22:16, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no actual reference for the body heat statement it's speculation from a thread on guru, that and the red haired statement need backing as we've seen a lot more variation in GW2 than GW1, so it is massive speculation to say what a species common hair color is. User:ShadowedSin 17:41:10 July 31, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is. It's from the Ghosts of Ascalon novel - one of the earlier chapters as Gilda was the target of Dougal's commentary on this, if I recall correctly. The red/blonde hair was from GW1, but outside those not from the Shiverpeaks we haven't seen dark hair (correct me if I'm wrong!) and I've altered the skin-tone comment (as only those from the Shiverpeaks, save PCs, have non-pale skin). I'll add another note on hair also being different for the norn around LA. Konig/talk 21:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Can you find the actual page and add it as a citation? Because if things were cited more thoroughly then wiki could be taken more seriously. On the hair, are you taking into account all of the helmet wearing NPCs? Seems to me the standard norn hair colors would be from perhaps a blackish color to light brown, plus a mixing of red and blonde. I suggest scanning the videos of hoelbrak to get a better idea of it rather than simply using the GW1 NPCs. User:ShadowedSin 21:47:50 July 31, 2011 (UTC)

It'll take time but it was agreed once-upon-a-time that blog, official site, games(/demos), and novels do not have to be referenced on the wiki - only odd-to-find (aka interviews and the like). Konig/talk 21:53, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Regarding haircolor, just looked through a bunch of videos and images and they all seem pretty on-par in numbers. However those feature player characters, which obviously will have more options than NPCs. So I don't know how reliable those are. GW2 concept art shows more blonde/redhead norn than other, GW1 shows the same, and GW2 shows mixed (including PC). All those with helms have their hair hidden. 21:58, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Because hair color is fickle Konig I changed your phrasing to suggest this "Norn typically have light or pale skin, dark hair colors along with red and blonde are predominant in the Shiverpeak Populations where as tanned skin and dark hair are predominant in those living n and near Lion's Arch." Because it seems that darker hair colors are found in the Shiverpeak populations, but also that blonde and red are evenly mixed. Whereas darker hair is more dominant near Lion's Arch.

Red and blonde show to be more predominant than darker haircolors to me, so I've switched that around. I don't see why you keep on removing the bodyheat sentence, it is cannon (I'm currently looking for the source - wasn't where I thought it was but it is in the book). Konig/talk 22:36, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

You mean canon? And I'm watching a hoelbrak video from PAX East. A lot of the NPC norn have Dark hair, so no Konig Blonde and Red hair is not dominant, so it seems the hair color dominance did not carry over from GW1. I found the quote about the tanned skin and I site the chapter and page from EoD. -ShadowedSin

Yes, canon. "A lot of the NPC norn have Dark hair" Are you sure those are NPCs? From videos I looked at, the dark-haired norn are moving irregularly and thus are unlikely to be NPCs. Mind linking which video you're referring to? And again - books do not need to be sited. Konig/talk 00:26, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

This video from PAX East: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps0bAl-ou-s&feature=related. Many of the NPCs in that are moving in a slow walking pattern and or are stationary. There about 2 or so blonde NPcs and most of them are stationary. Books should be cited so people are simply making up a fact and claiming it exists. Not citing is just sloppy. What I can see is that Dark Hair is definitely pretty prevalent in the average norn population in Hoelbrak. - ShadowedSin 00:28:25 (UTC) July 31, 2011

(Reset indent) So you'd want to cite every single thing then? Cite the game itself and demos? Providing a source is one thing, and citing is another. It isn't "sloppy" to not site the books - especially since as it stands they are our primary lore source outside interviews, which are cited. It'll become sloppy when we force ourselves to cite everything. And we certainly shouldn't have to cite everything, certainly not the game and certainly not the books. Regarding the hair, I'll concede that for now. However it seems odd to suddenly change that and the game is still being made, so models can be expected to be altered. Konig/talk 00:41, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I plan on citing all my sources when editing Wiki. Please do not remove these citations because I had to scour the book for the single sentence that provides the basis of canon. And it is a good idea to cite things when making a statement as to what is canon because it sets a standard. It also makes the wiki appear cleaner and more professional and discourages people from posting speculation as fact. - ShadowedSin 00:45:09 (UTC) July 31, 2011

But the books are official and are considered same source in all cases - there's no need to cite a page in the book (read the book if you want to know what the book says). Needing to cite official information is pointlessness everywhere. That pretty much says that you need to cite another wiki page by mentioning events. Like "Oh, the charr attacked ascalon." (somebody who never played GW1 would never know about the searing). Does that mean you have to cite the GW1 wiki, to the searing page? No. It's all official information, same source as itself. Interviews and the likes are external sources, not internal sources, and so must be cited. We don't cite to the GW2 profession pages to prove the professions exist for the same reason. Just think it through - it's not necessary in the least if it's internal source. Proving disputed content isn't really "necessary" either except out of courtesy to the others disputing the content.

Also, note that the reason you must cite if you did not write it is that it is not an internal source (yourself). GWW and GW2W are official content pages, meaning all internal sources (official lore, including books, other pages on the official wiki, the game, and the official websites - arena.net, guildwars.com, guildwars2.com) are from the same source. The only reason users really edit pages is to condense the information into one place, and to organize it. We don't add our own personal touch or made up information, and things made up are always considered vandalism the moment someone proves it was wrong when posted (changed information doesn't count). (sorry, that was a little long) ~~ Kiomadoushi 01:09, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

I think after all of this I'm sticking to just referencing the information from the actual source. You guys are doing a good job, but it just seems counter-productive to not simply add a note of reference which official source provided the information. - ShadowedSin 01:22:40 (UTC) July 31, 2011.

PLEASE, don't do that. If you edit a talk, don't delete it to change for a new response - use strikeout followed by new words or a new response. I've seen 3 responses from you in the same space, and that's a good bit of an issue. Use "Show Preview" if you want to see how it looks without intending to post.

Wikipedia, everything is an external source, so requires serious referencing because it is intended to be an online encyclopedia. Our rules here are for important, obscure (like its official, but nobody knows it, even as possible speculation, because its just so hidden) facts "should" (not need) be cited. External sources (interviews from other sites, 3rd party articles, etc) should be cited (roughly once only) just to know where it's coming from. As for obsure, that's like giving a picture of one of the edges of GW1 maps to show it's possible, because those edges were not "meant" to be reached. NOW...

It's already been noted under "see also" that the books contain information pertaining to "what" and "who" the norn are... But i can think of ways that are both subtle and explanatory that require no special source, such as simply saying that their bodies are easily able to compensate for the cold - to those who know that they produce more heat than humans, great, you understand the science; to those who don't know that, well now you know why they don't freeze. That's not speculation, as they would freeze if they weren't able to compensate for the cold, and would be dead. Subtle enough to say "cold doesn't kill them" without requiring a special source to explain the science. ~~ Kiomadoushi 01:38, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Alright I was not aware of that rule so I will not be editing my responses. You have a point, and so far the wiki has been pretty accurate. Really the red hair fact was what was off to me, Konig conceded though so I have no issue. Thanks for letting know about the talk rule. - ShadowedSin 01:54:16 (UTC) July 31, 2011

"Please do not remove these citations because I had to scour the book for the single sentence that provides the basis of canon." - there's such a thing as summaries and history, so even if you add a reference tag and in another edit that's. I really see no need to mention the books at all, as Kio stated they're official, internal, information and as such don't really need to be referenced. The books hold information on a lot of things, so mentioning them in a see also section on every page is downright silly. Konig/talk 03:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Observation

This may sound like speculation to some...actually, this pretty much is speculation, or speculation implying, but I'm gonna go ahead anyway. I was looking through concept art, and yes, I'm aware that concept art doesn't usually portray what is in the game. However, I saw this and I thought "Wait a second. Doesn't that polar bear look a heck of a lot like a Kodan?". And remember, this is Eir concept art. Any ideas? Kaon Frostblade 02:23, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

You realize that Eir is the woman with the sword, right? The bear behind her is indeed a Kodan. Chriskang 02:43, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm actually doubting that to be Eir. The other one does seem to be, but not the one with the sword. The armor on the norn is too different. But yeah, the bear is a kodan, the woman is Eir. -- Konig/talk 03:19, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Makes you wonder what it is she's trying to reach out for...? And why that overweight polar bear is stopping her from moving.(Xu Davella 12:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC))

I think they're both pointing at something. Both pieces look very similar, so they're probably an early and a later version of the same thing. --smøni 16:23, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. @Chris, yes I am aware that Eir is the person. Kaon Frostblade 21:08, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Notes

Should it be mentioned that humans and norn can interbreed? I believe the source is on a quest in EoTN with Olaf asking female characters to be his wife and mentions children. - Lucian 0:16, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

The dialogue says so, but it never actually happened. Perhaps you should test this theory and tell us the results? --'Mai Yi' {TC} 00:17, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice. Just nice. - Infinite - talk 00:23, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Mentioned in Physiology. "It is implied by some norn in Guild Wars that the norn are able to interbreed with humans." -- Konig/talk 00:31, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Woah! Mai! It happened. . . think the name was Leif Ericson. - Lucian 0:34, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Screenshot? --'Mai Yi' {TC} 00:35, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Too graphic. - Lucian 0:44, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it isn't adequate evidence. The dialogue in that quest clearly had a very distinct humourous overtone and very well may have been a joke on the part of the NPC. At any rate it certainly isn't enough to substantiate the claim that norn can interbreed with humans. 216.185.250.92 04:44, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Plural?

Is "norn" also a plural, or do I write "the norn" or "norns"? e.g. For all norn, For all of the norn or For all norns. (Xu Davella 13:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC))

You know what? I should have just read this article first and then go to bed. :) (Xu Davella 13:12, 26 February 2011 (UTC))

Religion? Government?

Where should we make mention of the norn shamans and the havroun? Should we consider placing the different norn factions such as the Wolfborn and the sons of svanir in the government section? What about norn merchant attitudes and business practices?

Also might we consider the loose implications of a semblance of law in this excerpt found on the new norn info thingy[1]:

“There’s nothing we can do. Your father lost the house, and everything in it, on his last wager with Grimhilde. She had the right to do whatever she chose with her winnings.” “She cheated. She cheated, but I can’t prove it. What of my father, Fiach?” The youth snarled the words, biting off the syllables like a wolf gnawing its leg out of a trap. “Did she have the ‘right’ to kill him, too?” Old Fiach sighed. “He was wrong to attack her. There will be no retribution from the Wolfborn of Hoelbrak for Grimhilde’s actions. Nor should you seek vengeance upon her, Viskar."

This excerpt suggests that (a) gambling is accepted as a binding agreement (b) You have a perceived right to kill another who is wrongfully attacking you without fear of local authorities seeking retribution upon you. These are tenuous at best, but at the least, it seems that the norn may be heading in the direction of a more organized society, and that we should look for hints of this in future game content. Perhaps the followers of wolf and raven will work together to create the first norn Althing, though it would be conceivable for the norn to approach this organizational step at such a slow pace as to take centuries. Hrafn 21:06, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

You have some good points. Grimhilde was well within her rights to self defense especially without any proof of cheating - although I'm not sure that it shows there are laws; perhaps that agreements must be honoured and that it is the story of the victor that is told not the story of the defeated.

I think we also need to include something of the nature of the norn; the idea that your actions (and their outcome) determine who you are not necessarily your choices or ancestry. Their relationship with the sons of svanir as a result is interesting. Perhaps also a mention of the pride a norn has of a strong ancestry.

You are welcome to update the article with the new information we have. I'll copy-edit anything you do or alternatively if you're willing to wait it out I will get around to updating the article... eventually. :) -- aspectacle  22:17, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Gender physiology

Looking at the concept art for the norn, something has been really bothering me. The male norn are at least twice the size of the female norn. I'd like to know if there is any explanation for this, other than wanting the female norn to still have marketing sex appeal? All the lore we've heard has made it seem like there's a lot of equality in norn culture, and that the women are just as vicious hunters as the men. Biologically, it doesn't seem to make sense that the women would be any smaller, at least not so significantly. So i just wonder why there's such a size difference between them. NALANA 20:54, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I would not mind the male norn being smaller. --'Mai Yi' {TC} 20:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the males are the ones giving birth in norn society. Otherwise it'd be...oh, so painful to deliver a baby boy. NALANA 20:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Maybe it's the females that have beards and are twice as big as the males... It's not just "big humans", so.. who knows? :P Waar Kijk Je Naar 20:59, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Personally, though I am admittedly biased, I really like the male norn concept art for GW2. I think it's the females that should be redesigned to not just look like bigger humans. - Infinite - talk 21:29, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Maybe scale down the males and scale up the females? I would like slimmer males and stronger females (The men still larger though). --'Mai Yi' {TC} 21:50, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

• shush* the women are fine! =D --The Holy Dragons 21:56, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Agreeing with Infinite and Mai here. Females should be scaled up a bit to match the males at least in freakin species (their skeletons are completely different as of now O_o) and males should maybe lose their horse-saddled stance; it makes them look really, really wide. More worried about the females though, as we should *hopefully* be getting substantial size and build customization options during char. creation. NALANA 22:34, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, between that and the demo sections containing norn, the men look like charr without fur and hunched backs. Odd. I'd also like to see the scale moved a bit. I like my women with arms that aren't twigs. --ஸ Kyoshi 00:25, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

This discussion is completely pointless. They look just fine, and the female Norn certainly are no "twigs". We've seen evidence that the women can even have very muscular abs, biceps, etc. Furthermore, Arena Net has already finished the Norn, basically. They are not getting a redesign-- so teach yourself to like them as they are, or do not play a Norn. Any further complaining is just evidence of ignorance, and an inability to adapt. Therefore, I hope you all will cease to do so, and show at least a small amount of maturity. 173.190.20.163 00:42, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Yow. Enough with the fanboy defense it's just a friendly conversation. We're all fans here and just as likely to love the game whatever the characters look like.

I agree that the norn females seem very much on the same proportions as the human females - which I think is a missed design opportunity for them. Although implementation benefits of the same body type are likely huge for them. We've not seen much of the body type customisation yet so it is possible Brunhilde is in there somewhere just waiting to be seen. :D -- aspectacle  00:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

You're calling people ignorant and immature for saying one negative thing about a game? Kind of immature to overreact like that tbh. --ஸ Kyoshi 03:00, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Based on the decent consensus we can see here, along with the obvious size discrepancy, i do not think this is a pointless topic. Scaling the size of the models is probably not going to be changed, but scaling itself is something which can be done on the fly (as we see in gw1 character creation). But Aspectacle responded well, anyway. This issue has irked me since seeing the concept art, but unfortunately it is most likely just another case of sacrificing authenticity for marketing purposes- boobs do work wonders on crowds :P We undoubtedly will adjust to and love the norn, however they are presented in-game. NALANA 03:17, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hahaha yes... "friendly conversation". :) Convince yourselves this if you will, but I see mindlessness. No, it is not bad to want something, but to obsessively complain about something that will not be changed is pointless. :) Especially considering it is good enough as is, and you don't even know enough to make your accusations (for example, customization COULD allow for more masculine female norn, if that is what you wish). I by no means overreacted, but I will accept your defensiveness as further evidence of my point-- it is mindless to continue this. Perhaps we should occupy ourselves with other, more constructive activities, hmm? 173.190.20.163 01:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Obsessively complaining.. Where? Did you even read the thread? I think your posts are more pointless, as they are irrelevant to a) this conversation and b) the page topic, Norn. Constructive activities? Hah. It's a discussion on a topic page on a wiki for a video game. So, back to the topic, please? As previously stated, extensive character customization is likely. Hopefully this will allow for a more healthily balanced size difference between the two. NALANA 03:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering about norn customisation earlier. From the recent demo footage the screen showing "norn customisation isn't in the demo" didn't seem to show a lot of body type differences for the females or males. A lot of facial customisation but seeming little body stuff.

On a somewhat unrelated note I was watching the norn stuff with someone looking over my shoulder and he thought the female norn character (the one from the game-trailers leak) looked british. While I not entirely sure what made him think that, I laughed. -- aspectacle  04:11, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Now that Mr. IP is done with his insanity, I'd like to bring up the fact that, just how many people would actually make beefy female norn? I can't see anyone seriously want to make one with proportions similar to male norn. And IP kind of reminds me of Aliceandsven. Eive 04:14, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Dang, it's official. The female norn are just tall humans while the male norn are..norn :P I'm a little disappointed that biology got ignored in the character design, but Eive is right.. It's doubtful that many players would want to play Brunhilde over the British (?!) gals we see XD NALANA 15:52, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

If the female Norn are as big as humans, surely that gets rid of the whole excuse of no armour due to needing to lose body heart as they are bigger. --92.5.153.170 15:58, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

If we're ignoring skeletal structure, I don't think a little thing like that matters xP But the norn women are certainly larger than human women. They just keep the exact same physiology of humans, while the male norn have a unique body structure. NALANA 16:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm... I see the illogical really do not like listening to reason. So, I will try to stoop to your intelligence level and see if I can reason with you in a more simplistic manner. Perhaps your eyes will confirm what your brains cannot-- Female Norn look different from female Humans IN TYRIA. To add to that, Norn women CAN BE HUGE. It's all up to customization, apparently. Happy hunting! 173.190.20.163 16:30, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Uh, well, thanks for restating things that have already been said in the most condescending manner possible. NALANA 16:42, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't see your face with your head so far up your @#!*% . I generally like to know wo I'm talking to, not some pathetic facade on the internet. So please, lose the superior manner. --92.5.153.170 16:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The mutual love I see occuring displeases this single lad. But anyway; the norn in gameplay are actually quite.. well.. BIG. It's just that the male renders are even bigger that they lose that comparison to humans altoghether. So actually, the female physique hasn't been ignored altogether.
Also, both Nalana and IP, let's not spark tension, 'kay? :) - Infinite - talk 17:57, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I believe tension was sparked when the other IP talked to us in such a patronising manner. In any case, I do think that some comparison renders of all the races are needed, so we can get a good iea of the differences between genders and races from ANet themselves. --92.5.153.170 18:04, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't matter who started it, just stop. And yes, I agree. --ஸ Kyoshi 18:12, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

ಠ_ಠ NALANA 18:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm stealing this emote. And I agree with the race comparison thingy. (Xu Davella 16:09, 5 March 2011 (UTC))

Well, the ip dude did have a good point... maybe not the best presentation, but they certainly weren't the only one being a bit... snippy? Maybe that's the right word. ^_^ Either way, both viewpoints have merit, and I suppose we'll be able to really get down into the answer for this when we learn just how far those character creation options go! :D - 98.19.149.175 21:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Just look at how Mr/Mrs. IP entered the conversation. And yeah, it will be really fascinating to see exactly how involved the customization will be ^^ NALANA 22:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Nalana, I want to make sure you realize this, but; it was you who responded equally heated and you could have chosen not to. Please don't try to defend yourself by putting only the IP in the bad spotlight. I can say this as I have made the exact same mistake in the past. - Infinite - talk 23:15, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, but i simply disagree with "equally heated." One person entered the discussion with a paragraph of insults (read it), the other(s) responded with maturity (and without any insults, except for one comment further down >.>). But Mr. IP did successfully destroy this comment thread, as it is now completely off the topic of norn physiology, and solely on the constituents of the conversation itself. This reminds me of playground crap of yore, and it is equally annoying. I see no reason to defend myself, nor reason that I would be the one needing defending in the first place. This wiki drama is useless, and exactly what I wanted to avoid. NALANA 23:39, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

I can suggest not commenting on self-declared "drama" to solve that, tbh. - Infinite - talk 23:41, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

But I wanted to talk about the NORN >:) Very frustrating, is all. NALANA 23:46, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

life span

I have just watched some videos on Youtube about GW2. Now some one in the audience asked a few questions about how long the norn live and other things like that. They said in the video that they can live to be in the tripled digits! Although most don't make it to this age because of their life style. I don't remember which video it was in So I will just link you to all of them. [2] [3] [4] [5]--Yozuk 14:25, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, norn can live to be 120 years old. - Giant Nuker 14:58, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Not just a mattter of belief

The norn do get the ability to transform from the spirits. We saw Bear restore Jora's ability to transform into bear in the Eye of the North story line. And of course norn can also become wolf, raven and snow leopard not just bear, so the kodan must be wrong. And being stuck in bear form makes the kodan seem the inferiors ones to me. Ramei Arashi 07:52, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

The Kodan don't deny the spirits' existence, nor do they deny their power (at least, not that I've read). They merely believe that it is their job to lead the spirits, whereas the Spirits are leading the Norn. So in the eyes of the Kodan, it's a bit of a tier system I suppose, with the Norn near the bottom now, then the spirits, then the Kodan at top. 173.190.18.0 10:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't believe that Kodan are "Norn stuck in bear form" - they're a wholly different race, and as such cannot be rated as "inferior" or "superior" to the norn. --Thunderduck 1:27 2 June (UTC)

Can't say I buy the idea of the Norn and the Kodan being related at all. Also can't say I'm impressed with the Kodan in the first place.--Will Greyhawk 05:48, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Forms

Does anyone know if the spirit you pick will dictate which form you can transform into? or whether norn can unlock all spirit transformations? the impression I got from Edge of Destiny was that Eir could transform into both Bear and Wolf forms. 129.12.142.150 22:24, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

your bio answer only affects your personaly story. it does not limit which elite forms you can use. all norn can use all forms. --Moto Saxon 00:11, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Norn exodus

Ree has provided a little bit more about the norn spirits and more precisely the reasonings/relationships with the norn and the exodus south in this interview. Redshift 02:08, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

About the August 14 edit "must have lived past 160"

Hi everyone,

We noticed that there was an edit on this article that interpreted a sentence said by Knut Whitebear remembering the awakening of Jormag as a way to say that he was physically present when it happened. We want to clarify that this is not what was meant in that dialogue and Knut was speaking figuratively, as if to say "I remember what was said about this event as if I was there". I hope this clarifies the matter and doesn't lead you to believe that Norns can live 160 years (although we're not saying that they can't).

We'd appreciate if this can be corrected, thank you! --Stephane Lo Presti talk 23:17, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

I removed it altogether; it has no real value since it was a hyperbole. The quote can still be found on the episode's page, to avoid any further confusion. --Ventriloquist 23:33, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Ventriloquist! --Stephane Lo Presti talk 23:34, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Broken reference link?

The first reference leads to a page that (for me at least) won't load. It is apparently about norn lifespan (which I'm quite interested in). Is this just a problem on my end or do we need to update the reference link? 174.203.47.9 19:28, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Fixed, linking to an archive instead (like the second reference). --Tolkyria (talk) 19:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)