Talk:Elder Dragon/Archive 1

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Is this a confirmed name for them? I've seen them referred to officially as "true dragons", "ancient dragons", "great dragons" and "elder dragons"... maybe we should just have them all listed at the page Dragon instead? --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:40, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I've only heard of em as Ancient Dragons.. And thats the name they have on the Movement of the World article. --- -- (s)talkpage 20:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

All of those phrases I listed above were used in the Movement of the World article... --Santax (talk · contribs) 20:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

You can make an argument for any, but I've seen "ancient dragons" the most. I think "true dragons" in the article was simply to differentiate them from the "lesser" Glint and Kuunavang. Calor (t) 20:22, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Who named the water dragon "Grothmar"? Just because he's in Grothmar Wardowns doesn't make him the Grothmar.--Sparky75 19:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Same as "Drakkar". Nicknamed after the explorable area that he is found in. It's just a temporary nickname, hence the quotation marks. --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:38, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Drakkar however, is dereived from the Norse for dragon. So slightly more related. Backsword 19:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I mean. Grothmar I would expect does not come from the dragon. Unlike the Drakkar. It would help If there was a Norse term for Grothmar.--Sparky75 18:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Could ancient dragon of Orr be...

Undeaddragon.jpg

...Rotscale. 1.He is undead. (lmao) 2.He is dragon. (lmao) 3.Scepter of Orr was found in Majesty's Rest.Palce where Rotscale is. 4.Pretty short, but still.

Number 4 sorta shows the flaw there. They are said to be bigger and mightier than even Kuunavang or Glint, and they're pretty big compared to the Rotscale. -- br12 • (talk) • 19:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Judging from this concept art I found of him, I don't think he's Rotscale :P --Santax (talk · contribs) 19:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Out of curiosity what's the source for that pic? --MarinBloodbane 16:19, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I found it on the conceptart.org thread for Eye of the North, Utopia and GW2. --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

That's an interesting theory. Look at the humans beside the dragon. We'll say...1/5 the height of the dragon, maybe 1/4 depending on how you look at it. Rotscale wasn't that big, but has anyone considered that Rotscale, being a "youth", may have aged over those 250 years and grown a lot? Calor (t) 16:53, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

interesting calor ^Teo^ 22:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the Movement of the World Primordus was the first to awaken, and the undead dragon of Orr was sleeping beneath the Orrian peninsula / subcontinent. The concept art could depict Rotscale, and Rotscale could be one of the Orrian dragon's minions. -- Gordon Ecker 04:51, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't be Rotscale, he died too easily. :P Lord Belar 04:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Unless there's some cheezy rebirth thing, I don't think it's rotscale. -- Armond Warblade 22:34, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Rotscale is killable, that doesn't necessarily mean he's canonically killed in GW1. -- Gordon Ecker 04:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Tell that to the price of rotwing recurves tbh. -- Armond Warblade 07:10, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Rotscale is easy to kill, but so is (was) The Great Destroyer and he was supposed to be Primordus's general.. 85.157.177.140

Rotscale? WTF? The dragon in the picture doesn't look anything like Rotscale! We'll set aside the fact that it's got a complete body, including hind-legs, since maybe Rotscale grew new hindquarters, but how do you explain the neck? Rotscale had a long serpentine neck, this creature doesn't. Growing new hindquarters is within the realm of possibility, but losing his neck? If you REALLY wanted to stretch it, you could argue for some sort of transformation, but in that case, it could just as well be a picture of Prince Rurik. :p --68.187.144.197 21:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Rurik got butchered more than meat in a deli. And I didn't notice the legs and neck, never looked that much at Rotscale and the picture. Calor (t) 21:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

My point exactly. Considering how much Rurik's been abused over the few years we've seen him, who knows what he'll look like in 250 years?  ;) Note, I'm not seriously arguing that Rurik is the Ancient Dragon of Orr. That makes no more sense than claiming Rotscale is, given that neither Rurik nor Rotscale look anything like the picture or in any way match the descriptions given. --68.187.144.197 21:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting idea, but no. Rotscale isn't big enough to raise orr out of the ocean. --Lou-Saydus 18:26, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... Rotscale is constantly being slaughtered by people en masse, I don't think he's nearly powerful enough to be the Undead Dragon. Plus, he is already "awakened", whereas all the primeval dragons are "awakened" between GW1 and GW2 --Gimmethegepgun 19:42, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to add some information in regards to what Calor mentioned about Rotscale growing up in 250 years. If Guild Wars follows the basic premise and lore found throughout most cultures where dragons are involved, 250 years isn't a long time for a dragon to age to "ancient" status. They called Glint a youth compared to these ancient dragons and during Prophecies, Glint was nearly 3000 years old. While I have not found any lore to suggest the age of Rotscale, I would assume he is younger, if not much younger, than Glint. I'm sure in GW2, there will be lore to explain the age of these ancient dragons and cross-referencing that with what is known about the younger dragons, a basic calculation of the life expectancy of a "legendary dragon"(term I use for Glint, Kuunavang, and the ancient dragons) could be made. — Gares 17:02, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so... Although this pic could be an early concept for Rotscale and judging at least by the head it looks like Rotscale. IMO, theres no way for that to be the Undead Dragon, because:

1. Compared to Primordus, Grothmar and Drakkar he's far too small (he's like 1/10 of Drakkar)

2. He's imprisoned by men, and as I recall, the Ancient dragons are farrrrrr to powerfull for humans

3. ...and were like sleeping untill GW2. Before, I see no logical explanation why they should sleepwalk (in the time of men). They were all sleepy-encrusted untill The Great Destroyer went boom.--Demonisher 20:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

"Grothmar" was dramatically scaled down compared to the concept art, which had multiple ships sailing around it, this dragon could have been scaled up. And we don't know if those are humans, they could be giants chaining down the dragon thousands of years ago. -- Gordon Ecker 07:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

What if it was actually the Cataclysm that killed and "revived" the Orrian dragon as an undead dragon? Think about it. What are the chances of there just happening to be an ancient undead dragon beneath Orr? -- Gmr Leon

Maybe it still is living and just lords over undead like a minion master. Laserblasto! 03:12, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that Abbadon and Nightfall are what began waking the dragons...after all...it woke up Joko, Right? and mabye the gods bound them away and Nightfall's reality warping broke their chains? Just a thought... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.254.171.37 (talk • contribs).

I personally doubt it, or else there would be little need to have the Great Destroyer to wake Primordus up. It could be that the series of major events in Tyria (Searing, Cataclysm, Titan's release, Nightfall) all caused the Great Destroyer to wake up, but I doubt just Nightfall caused all the Ancient Dragons to wake up. -- Konig Des Todes 14:48, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Move proposal

I don't think this article should be moved, as the ancient dragons are distinct from other dragons. -- Gordon Ecker 01:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree - anja 01:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

/agree. ^Teo^ 10:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah i agree too, "ancient dragons" sets them apart. --Lou-Saydus 18:29, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Water Dragon

It is just an image, but... there are large ships, perhaps frigates or something similar, in the OCEAN near the dragon. This does not fit the part of the dragon we see in the Charr homelands, it is merely a lake. The undead creatures of Orr on the other hand are ruled by an undead dragon, and as far as we know they have a navy. So either the image is just incorrect or the water dragon is not necessarily to be found in the charr homelands, but in the sea roughly south of Kryta/Tarnished Coast, where the sunken kingdom of Orr is located. --Longasc 22:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

That.... is the undead dragon.... at the bottom of the ocean.... --Gimmethegepgun 01:45, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

It's concept art, they could've scaled it down. -- Gordon Ecker 02:37, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Change name

From Ancient dragons to Ancient dragon. Just a common wiki theme of not having articles plural. Anyone agree/disagree? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Kainui .

Except there's more than one. Lord Belar 23:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Kind of like how we have a page called 'Dwarf' instead of 'Dwarves'. GF. Kai Nui 19:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

That's because Dwarf is a name of a species of thousands of beings. There are about five dragons, and they're more of a 'group' than a species, since they all look so different from each other.--70.71.240.170 01:22, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Semantics. Ancient dragons is just fine. ~ Jujipoo just may eat you 23:54, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Desert Dragon Could Be...?

I'm going to guess Rodgort. Crystal desert is hot, Rodgort's skills are fire magic which is hot, and we know Rodgort is a man, I mean a dragon! RRRROOODDDGOOOOORRRTTTT!! Kai Nui 20:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

I would think a desert dragon would be attuned with Earth Magic, but I wouldn't think a dragon would have a specific preference to one element. For all we know, he could be a special monster type thing with no profession. -- Brains12 \ Talk 22:22, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I think Kuunavang, although labeled as special, is really more towards the air elementalist side of things, afterall, Dark Chain Lightning is just it's variation of Chain Lightning, even though technically it isn't an elementalist skill... eh... Still, we have a name rodgort and faces that need naming and they all seem to be dragons, so Rodgort could still fit in. Kai Nui 22:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Roll call

So far, we know the following:

• At least four dragons have awakened: Primordus, the dragon which was beneath Orr, the dragon which was slumbering "in the deepest waters of the sea" and the dragon which "erupted from the northern mountains and flew south over the Charr territory of Ascalon". (The Movement of the World)
• Primordus is in the depths of Tyria, he can create life from stone and the Great Destroyer was his most powerful general. (The Movement of the World)
• The undead "elder dragon of Orr" is the same dragon which caused the continent to rise from the ocean. (The Movement of the World)
• There is a "desert dragon" in the northern Crystal Desert, its' "twisted servants" attack the Charr in Ascalon. (The Movement of the World)
• "An elder dragon of ice and snow arose in the farthest northern peaks".
• The Drakkar is a dragon. (PC Gamer)
• The "water dragon" is a dragon. (PC Gamer)

-- Gordon Ecker 02:38, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, now put that in the article. Lord Belar 02:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

What wbout Glint?-- Ninja Dragon 03:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

She's not an ancient dragon. -- Plingggggg \ Talk 03:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

She certainly looked old...... -- Ninja Dragon 03:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, she's an old dragon, but compared to these ancient ones, she's a tiny baby. The ancients are large, ageless and pwnz0rs. -- Plingggggg \ Talk 03:13, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

So the other dragon's are like godzilla compared to Glint? Or maybe Glint is just malnourished.....-- Ninja Dragon 03:23, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Well if that's the case, then what about Drakkar? He might be a bit larger than Glint but he's still no where near the size of Grathmor. (Or even whatever the hell was at the bottom of the Pre-Ascalon Catacombs for that matter). Also ask yourself: If Drakkar was underneath sunken Orr, would he have the raw mass to raise it back up again? ...even with an army of corrupted Norn-Were's helping him? I Think not, he's too puny to match the full scale of other "Ancient Dragon" concepts and is probably just another "General". --ilr 05:08, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Could the dragon at the second portal of the sunjiang mission be a dragon too? or is it just a statue? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:64.254.236.98 (talk) .

I don't recall there being any dragons in the Sunjiang District mission. -- ab.er.rant 08:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

There's a nearly buried stone dragon head in Sunjiang District. IMO it's just a shrine dedicated to Tahmu. -- Gordon Ecker 06:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

what about a dragon at the bottom of the catacombs--99.182.83.171 05:45, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

POSSIBLE new DRAGONS?

I found these hidden (not really hidden) dragons buried in the underworld mountains and I was wondering if they have any influences to the ancient dragons we seek. ~ Ascalon Patriarch

please use these links and tell me what you think.

Red Eye'd Overseeing both dragons Blue Eye'd --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Ascalon Patriarch (talk) .

They're not ancient dragons, they were transformed into their current form by Grenth after they unsuccessfully challenge dhim for his position, see the Guild Wars Wiki's Twin Serpent Mountains and Reaper of the Twin Serpent Mountains articles for details. -- Gordon Ecker 06:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

TWIN SERPENT...TWO DRAGONS BOTH LONG AND SCALY...hmm...--Demonisher 20:20, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

If you want to see a new dragon, head south from the eye on the path to the Boreal station. Keep your sight on the horizon and you should soon see the dragon of ice and snow. --Millenium80 15:02, 22 December 2008 (UTC) Thats likely a statue just a statue Anets said that the Drakkar in Drakkar lake is the ice dragon--99.182.83.171 05:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)lord randy taylor

We're All Gonna Die Man!!!

A little panic ^^ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Krisstina (talk) .

Well, we're not really born yet, so meh :P. -- pling | ggggg 15:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL XD (Krisstina 18:09, 26 April 2008 (UTC))

Isn't gw2 like 200 years into the future? Cause then we would be dead for like 150 years :p ^Teo^ 20:22, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The prospect of the dragons may seem scary, but I don't believe the people are as powerless as some might think, and I wouldn't underesimate the resources of the Order of Wispers. Lawn Gnome 02:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)Lawn GnomeLawn Gnome 02:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

"Dragon" should perhaps be a split article

The article name "dragon" links here, however, it seems like the name should be reserved for a different article for some time in the future, since we may end up seeing glint, Kuunavang, or some other equivalent type dragons in the game.

The split may not be useful right away, since at this point there isn't any information about the other dragons in the game, but it does seem useful for later.Tambora 00:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it will probably turn into an article of itself :) But since these are the only Dragons so far known about, it can stay a redirect for the time being. --- -- (s)talkpage 12:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

another two possible dragons

I believe there was a small one off to the side on Shing Jea, but the main point of adding this is to mention the dragon head sticking out of the ground in the middle of the Sunjiang District in Cantha. that might be a problem for the locals. unsigned The dragon is a ligthhous same as the oen near the kaing docks, and as for a drago nin sujiang distict think if all this is happenign in Tyria how would it reach it fomr cantha since most of our dragons are accounted for--99.182.83.171 05:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)lord randy taylor

Cantha is the dragon empire if you read your GW history those are just statues of dragons to honour their empire -Giant Nuker 12:03, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Dragon Datas

On each (known by nickname or name) dragon talk page, I will try to write each dragons specie, abilities and so on. But for fair sake, I will also write it down here.

Here is what I know so far:

1.Drakkar - Coulden't figure out yet. Although he has wings and legs, so my best guess yet is a Wyrm.

2.Grothmar - Like Drakkar, although I disqualified many because of the lack of wings and scales. Chineese dragon or any other wingless-dragon (maybe also Ouroboros and Oriental dragon).

3.Primordus - I figured out more than the other two:

• Dragon Type: Western (99% sure)
• Abilities: Spit fire, fly, talk (communicate?) with other animals (maybe also humans?)
• Flying type: Slow-Medium. He has more size-and muscles than wings. He travels more slow on land than air, from almost obvious reasons.
• Spit type: Fire (also 99%). This fire is powerful, can last for very large periuds of time, but, it also makes him vulnerable; after his long-spits of fire, he is exhausted, making him weaker, and giving us (the killers *sniff sniff*) an oppurtonity to strike him down!
• Dangers: (may) possess extremley powerful magiks, and combined with strengh, he can be a tough opponet. If you are far, he will burn you or use magiks, and when close, he can in a swip of a claw tore you into little pieces. When in danger, he can fly above you and kill you from there. (Note: If you damage his wings, he can be pinned down, giving you a chance, but it may also enrage him).

4.Other dragons - Untill we get clear images of them and a right source, that is all what I can get.

I will post more informationa s soon as I get it. In the meantine, comment this post to add what you think and your theories and more stuff :) 89.139.235.214 11:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm

Drakkar?
And another Dragon of some type.
Have fun. There's some nice other pics in that gallery, too. --- -- (s)talkpage 13:36, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

The first one is likely "Grothmar". -- Pling \ talk 14:33, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I always mix those up. Oops. --- -- (s)talkpage 18:27, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Most of the images on that site are concept art for GW: Utopia, so that second dragon might not actually show up in-game.. The first one is definately Grothmar. — Why 22:19, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Uhm...

Any information anywhere that tells or hints where these dragons originated, as in when/where/who created them or how they came to exist :$. I couldn't imagine a God creating something that rivals their own power, unless accidentally =\. -- Nature 20:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

It's some "unfathomable magic" according to "The Movement of the World".Shew 22:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

In other words, they haven't figured that part out yet. -- Pling \ talk 22:23, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Another possible dragon

I believe the dragon heads on the Warrior 15k Canthan armor are the ancient dragons of Shiro Tagachi who awaken from all your wammo's shoulders, and cause a second Jade Wind that destroys all of Cantha and that's why you can't go to Cantha anymore in GW2. 24.67.173.150 22:17, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Of course, that explains EVERYTHING. Cress Arvein 02:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

O______________O Sensical Measures 02:46, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Now a serious comment, mabye the possible dragon heads found in areas in Cantha that were mentioned earlier have awakened and have caused massive damage and now the people of Cantha can't send for help due to whatever strange powers this dragon or dragons may have and that is why no contact has been made with the Canthans. Just a thought. Lawn Gnome 01:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)Lawn GnomeLawn Gnome 01:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, since there are endless amounts of players running around buying and wearing Warrior 15k Elite Canthan armor, that's unlikely, and anyways isn't it because a dragon rose in the waters between Tyria/Elona and Cantha, and is destroying all the ships going through? 96.244.126.68 21:23, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

According to what we know, the Deep Sea Dragon did no damage so far, as it woke up - presumably - in the Unending Ocean, and prior to that "Malchor" - or the Orrian Dragon - woke up preventing Tyrian trade with Cantha. Which was also after contact with Elona stopped thanks to our good pal Palawa. So while the Deep Sea Dragon probably did cause damage. We don't know what. All we know about it is that it resides in the deepest part of the sea (again, presumably the Unending Ocean/Great Sea - but that's unknown) *I smell Atlantis references* and that it can turn water into tentacles - probably similar to the ones Abaddon caused. -- Konig Des Todes 23:06, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

A Dragon... ?

I was running through the Gates of Kryta mission and decided to go on a little seaside tour just because I hadn´t gone there before. So I just run there and see these massive rocks. At first I didn´t care about them but then I noticed something that kinda freaked me out: [1] I took some other crappy screenshots, watch if you want but I´d like to know if someone knows what the hell that is. 88.193.200.215 20:58, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

They're just... rocks. --- -- talkpage 21:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Dude. Rocks are sum srsbsns. We may have to add a rock dragon to the page because some random wammo got freaked out by some island ~ Jujipoo just may eat you 23:58, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

You got some imagination if you think thts something other then a rock lmfao. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:90.219.142.215 (talk) .

i had to look and i had to laugh. true if it were a volcano it might be dangerous but i fear pre searing charr more.--Justice 00:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks like a smiling, animated rock frog. O.o Eryops3 04:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Underground

It occured to me with all the talk of dragons not being as large as their concept art and what not that mabye these images of dragons that we are seeing across the lands of Tyria are just parts of the dragons body sticking out of the ground and the majority of the dragon's body is in some large cavern underground, like the face of Drakkar. Just a thought. Lawn Gnome 00:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)Lawn GnomeLawn Gnome 00:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

well i dont know about your "underground" theory but i do think some of the "too small to be a great dragon" posted throughout the talk pages make little sense. Not all of the dragons are going to be exactly the same body and they wont be exactly the same size. Also i dont see why the twin serpent mountain dragons cant be among the ancient dragons. They could have been a touch weak to face grenth and failed. Come GW2 they may have become powerful enough to "rival" the gods.--Justice 00:26, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't there a line in the Movement of the World where it stated all the Ancient Dragons surpass Gods in power? And the Twin Serpents have a story already. Read up on that and the MotW. --- -- talkpage 18:35, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

For anyone else reading this, the twin serpents are disqualified because, according to the Reaper of the Twin Serpent Mountains, the brothers were mortals who were transformed into their current form after challenging Grenth to a duel. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:06, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

ok the twin serpent mountains was a dumb thought but i believe the MotW says THE dragons rival the power of the gods. Not each alone. Rival =/ More powerful. And besides if the dragons were more powerful why would the gods even exist and the dragons be sleeping?--Justice 06:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

The dragons were either heavily tranqed or tired, probably ;) Still, true, rival != surpass. My memory is bad, so mistakes aren't uncommon for me :< --- -- talkpage 14:10, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I hope

I really hope they will make the dragons really epic. I mean, look at the concept art. It's HUGE. That dragon could just wipe out an entire city. --88.112.91.132 09:03, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

and you will be the same person to cry they are wayyyy toooo over powered!!!!--Justice 15:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

drakkar thought

if he put it a curse on jora and her brother he/she could be a necromancer with some kidn fo monster only curse mabey race dependant? if you think bout it thats not a bad thought —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.58.179.251 (talk • contribs).

It wasn't really a curse. It's just viewed as one as the true nature is not known to the Norn. However, we know that it is just the influence of the magic. The Ancient Dragon's don't "curse" - they "twist." Svanir was "twisted" via Drakkar's magic that "practically bleeds" from him - like magic comes from Primordus - and Jora had a smaller influence that was able to be overcome - because of two things I can gather, first, she was farther away from the source, second, she was not invoking the magic. As to the profession, I don't think the Ancient Dragons have professions, but instead traits. Drakkar's is "ice and snow" - closest connection to a profession will be a water elementalist. Also, "some kind of monsters only a curse maybe race dependent", what? At least, I'm guessing that is what you meant to type. Do you mean, "a curse that is a monster-only skill"? That would make sense, if it was indeed a curse. -- Konig Des Todes 08:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I think you mostly explained the rest, Konig, but by "some kidn fo monster only curse mabey race dependant", our friend 66.58.179.251 means that if Jora and her brother became necromancers they would get a special necromancer skill that is specific to the Norn. However, I have no idea why the heck this is here, cause it seems more like a suggestion for EotN which is already out. 96.244.126.68 21:27, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the dragons will be evidence of why the gods split magic for current species, to prevent a possible repeat? The gods = The prequal of Guild Wars Heros who defeated the dragons and harvested their power for themselves. Announcing GW3 the prequal that started it all! Makes me cry everytime i recall what that greedy sunspear leader did to us....Quick become a god before the real heros do! Worse then a noob standing over a dced player's ecto waiting for it to turn neutral...Justice 10:25, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

little Change

what about splitting the known dragons from MotW, with the ones discovered in game like the drakkar lake dragon.--Penners 10:44, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

I suppose if you wanted, you could put in a little note about it. Mat Cauthorn, The Botanist 15:26, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Desert Dragon equals Grothmar Dragon

From Movement of the World, Charr: "Charr warbands strike out from these safe havens to defend their territories, battling the shades of Ascalonian warriors, the twisted servants of the desert dragon, and the horrifying beasts that come up from beneath the ground throughout Ascalon and the Shiverpeaks."

Grothmar flies over the Charr territories of Ascalon and "any creature caught within the wind of its breath twisted and changed." Grothmar must be the desert dragon. Mordakai 18:10, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Seeing how the evidence is almost infallible, I think I'll change the article. -- Konig Des Todes 00:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC) Edit: Due to the structure of the article, to mimic the case with Drakkar/Dragon of Ice and Snow, I didn't say that the desert dragon is the same as Grothmar, but instead removed the "northern mountain dragon" and said the desert dragon is the one that flew south. -- Konig Des Todes 00:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Zhaitan

im not sure if hes the undead or deepsea dragon ... i think hes both ha ha ha 97.96.48.173 10:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it may be that he is both. But he is the Undead Dragon for sure. I just got up and saw the trailer, know nothing else at the moment. (looks with much excitement) -- Konig/talk 15:11, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

After calming down, I realized, the Deep Sea Dragon and Zhaitan are in fact two different dragons. They are mentioned as different dragons in the Movement of the World. -- Konig/talk 18:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

yeah same ha ha ha ha 97.96.48.173 12:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Image

I think we should avoid using images of Primordus on Zhaitan on this page. We have tons of dragon-related eyecandy in Category:ArenaNet concept art just waiting to be used. Even if it isn't a dragon that's officially confirmed to be appearing in-game, it can't hurt to have pic with a neutral caption like "NornIntroShared-DragonFlyingOver-Final by Rich Anderson". --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:11, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Yea i agree, be nicer to use a range of images, rather then the same ones over and over again. --BloodStain 12:14, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Name

Just to revive the discussion at the top of the page, in recent promotional materials, there is no mention of any "ancient dragons", only Elder Dragons (notice the caps). Additionally, the Movement only uses the term "ancient dragon" once throughout the entire article, I think it was more descriptive than an actual name. I propose we move this page to Elder Dragon, any objections? --Santax (talk · contribs) 12:22, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Where does it actually say that the actual name is elder? The Movement of the World uses both. --BloodStain 12:30, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Six references to "Elder Dragons" in [2], 0 to "ancient dragons". Try a ctrl+f search through other promotional materials like interviews and previews. I've not gone back any further than the trailer release date, but I've only found reference to Elder Dragons. --Santax (talk · contribs) 13:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I say move the name to Elder Dragons, recent interviews refer to them as elder and not ancient. Lord Caeliat 20:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

/agree. — Balistic 00:01, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed with the move. The name seems to have been changed from Ancient to Elder. That, or Jeff (who is the biggest interviewed lore writer of Anet) loves to use Elder over Ancient (he calls the dwarves an elder race, not an ancient race). -- Konig/talk 00:28, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest using a capital "D" for this, that seems to be the favoured use by ANet. Also, wouldn't it be simpler to have it as a singular and then if we need to use it as a plural we can use [[Elder Dragon]]s rather than [[Elder Dragons|Elder Dragon]]? They seem to be a species, rather than a group. --Santax (talk · contribs) 11:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather have the lower case because capitalisation differences don't automatically redirect here. 'elder Dragon' is not the same as 'elder dragon' - and all of the use of the term on the wiki so far is with all lower case. And I guess I generally prefer avoiding the unnecessary caps, it feels less forced when you're using the term. I also agree the singular, but I moved to the plural first in error, then the existing redirect got in the way of the move and then anon cleaned up all of the broken links which my bad delete tagging caused.... It's just an RC mess. :P --Aspectacle 16:10, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Truthfully you could move it to the singular and leave this as a redirect, you wouldn't have to change any links (the thought to make the singular a redirect only occurred to move after I was halfway through the links, and there weren't that many anyway =p) 87.242.132.183 16:35, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

That might result in double redirects, wouldn't it? · LOQUAY · 16:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation differences can be redirected manually with not too much effort, and double redirects are easily fixed. Does anybody have any objections other than technical concerns then? --Santax (talk · contribs) 16:58, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

No. I still prefer the lc option for the main article, just not enough to war over it. And if we get it wrong we can move them all again. That's all part of the fun right. ;) --Aspectacle 17:03, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I'll give the discussion a day or so just in case there's strong opposition to uppercase, and then I'll move it then. I hope to god Elder Dragon isn't a generic name like Charr Homelands and we find out the true name later :P --Santax (talk · contribs) 17:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

"Elder Dragon" does seem to be the official term used, and official terms should have articles made in the same manner as the official term (i.e., if words are capitalized in the official term, it should be capitalized in the article titles). So I agree with both the singularization and the capitalization. -- Konig/talk 17:39, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd prefer lower-case too. It seems to me that these are just dragons that are elder, similar to how Jeff describes the dwarves as an elder species (possibly only meaning older than the five/six gods?). I think all we should do here is change "ancient" to "elder", since that's apparently the preferred term, and make it singular.

Also, GWW doesn't really agree with 'do it exactly as Anet does it' - capitalisation is generally for proper nouns only; I don't think "dragon" is proper here. --pling  19:31, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

"Into pre-history..."

About a little revert of Santax's removal of a line... The line in the Movement of the World says that the Elder Dragons are older than history. Some people take this as older than the existence of the Giganticus Lupicus (whom died in 10,000 BE), but the oldest "history" is the extinction of the GL, not the time in which they lived. And in fact, that line is just a guess of their death, we don't know when they died. The Giganticus Lupicus could easily be as old as the Elder Dragons. -- Konig/talk 22:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Except the Movement doesn't say the elder dragons date back to the time of GL's extinction, and that's not what my edit was supposed to reflect either. The Movement states that the dragons go back "to the time of" the GL, and "even further". --Santax (talk · contribs) 22:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

My point is that how far back the GL go is unknown so the line has to, logically due to the lack of information, mean to the time of the extinction of the Giganticus Lupicus and further back. Unless we are told that how old the oldest GL remains are, by logic, the line means before the death of the Giganticus Lupicus. -- Konig/talk 00:49, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

How does and "back to the time of the giganticus lupicus, and even further" mean "back to the time of the extinction of the giganticus lupicus, and even further"? --Santax (talk · contribs) 09:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

We don't know how far back the Giganticus Lupicus go, only their death (which is still a rough estimate). For all we know, the Giganticus Lupicus go back to the time of creation of Tyria as it seems the Elder Dragons do. Unless Anet is intending to tell us when the Giganticus Lupicus were first roaming the world, we cannot assume that the Elder Dragons go beyond the Giganticus Lupicus. -- Konig/talk 23:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Unless perhaps, it were specifically stated somewhere that they go back beyond the time of the giganticus lupicus? :P --Santax (talk · contribs) 23:21, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

More dragons in Cantha and Elona?

With the fact of Cantha and Elona being cut off from Tyria dosent that there could be more drangons waiting for us? Just a thought.--Ian8766 21:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't know... possibly... there is evidence in Guild Wars that there are Elder Dragon in Cantha and Elona but... for some reason I think that Canthan and Elona might have a different main plot than what Tyria will. Though they may still use Elder dragons... -- Phnzdvn 22:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, Cantha might be called Empire of the Dragon for a reason...but it's all just speculation for now. I would be surprised if all the dragons existed only on the northern continent though, unless there's some good reason for it. --Santax (talk · contribs) 23:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, yeah. I am sure they will have Elder Dragons in Elona and Cantha I just don't think Anet is gonna make an Elder Dragon the antagonist 3 times ya know... Something tells me that the Canthan story line is gonna have something to do with the new Emperor... he doesnt sound like a nice guy :P -- Phnzdvn 03:04, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

There are two things which prevent dragons in Cantha, and one which prevents one awakening in Elona - The first which prevents an awakening of dragons in both continents would be Jeff Grubb saying that the Elder Dragons awake every 50 years - with Primordus being the first to awaken 50 years after EN, and Kralkatorrik being the last and awakening just before GW2 (and there being a dragon every 50 years in between) - if there are any more dragons anywhere they will wake up 50 years after the game, thus won't be fought during the game (unless we have our characters living 50 years as adventurers which is highly unlikely...). The second thing which prevents an elder dragon in Cantha but not in Elona (which by the way is only based on observations and not fact), is that the elder dragons seem to share awakening locations with where Giganticus Lupicus bones are found - and there are no GL bones in Cantha that we know of, just throughout Tyria and Elona. -- Konig/talk 03:36, 10 December 2009 (UTC)