Talk:The Movement of the World/Archive 1

Few things

"during the time of the famous Charr heroine Kalla Scorchrazor"

There ARE female Charr

and

"Thus, when a Sylvari emerges, she knows a great deal more about the world than one might expect."

I'm going to assume that Sylvari may only be female, or the female is the dominant.

That's all --69.133.105.149 20:48, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I think by working in (however awkwardly) the female Charr, ANet went out of their way to make it so that each of the races accomodates both genders. Thus it stands to reason that there are also male Sylvari. It might just be that the "she" was used as an example because the Sylvari are a primarily effeminate race. --Santax (talk · contribs) 21:01, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Or they'll go sexist. Just like Diablo I and II :P --- -- (s)talkpage 21:14, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

No policy against it yet lol. Calor (t) 02:29, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, the Sylvari are asexual so there are no "males" or "females" they simply just are. Even though they look feminine to us they have no sex at all. So it would be out of character for the Sylvari to have females and males, they may very well simply have certain Sylvari that look female and male to us :P --Lou-Saydus 17:01, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

maybe they've got 2 sexes. like 1 sylvari have 2 reproductive organs?? who knows ^Teo^ 22:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that they should show the art work for the new races so we hv an idea of wat they will look like

Glint is Old/Young?

Isn't it funny how in proph glint is made out to be some kinda ancient dragon, when they say she's old even for a dragon, and then this comes along and says she was just a hatchling? --Lou-Saydus 17:03, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

It is, to an extent. But no living humans, or very, very few, knew of the ancient dragons, and only knew of Glint, Kuunavang, ROtscale, etc. So Glint, I assume, would be older than the dragons we've always known, but thousands of years younger than the ancient dragons. Calor (t) 17:06, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

isn't she one of the ancient dragons?? ^Teo^ 22:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Glint came around after the Gods. And I think the "Ancient Dragons" came around before the Gods settled. In that case, Glint is mightly old, but the Ancient Dragons are older. And no, Glint isn't an Ancient Dragon, she's too "young". -- br12 • (talk) • 22:16, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

didn't the gods create the ancient dragons?? i have absolutely no clue here since i never read about this so you tell me ^Teo^ 22:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

No. Read the article, it explains everything and is interesting. Calor (t) 22:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

kk.. i wont read the whole article or even the little area which explains it so i'll just take your word for it ^Teo^ 22:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

So let me make sure I got this right. Glint(Yong-est)< Gods (middle) < Ancient Dragons (oldest). That is how the age line of all these things are correct?--Neji.B ♪ ♫ ♪ 03:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Unknown, actually. In an interview with Kill Ten Rats, Jeff Grubb said that all information we have of Glint is from herself and that she may not be telling the truth. So, Glint may be older than the gods, and not their first creation. -- Konig/talk 03:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Anet is contradicting themselves. In the Prophecies game itself Glint is said to be the first creature placed on Tyria, the oldest dragon. Now they're telling us this is a lie. Ramei Arashi 03:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Wrong! In Prophecies she is said to be the first creature created by the gods - also, we have learned by Jeff that"Much of what we know about Glint comes from Glint herself. The truth of the matter may be very different, and she has her own reasons for saying what she has said." So it isn't so much contradicting as it is that they're retconing things through lies. -- Konig/talk 04:21, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources

Some sources would be usefull to backup the infromation, otherwise this could all be made up...PheNaxKian(T/c) 18:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Lol. I doubt it's made up if it's released by ANet and in a PCGamer edition dedicated to Guild Wars. Calor (t) 18:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

It has the copyright icon at the top right, so you can be sure it is an official source. -- Brains12 • Talk • 19:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I know it's not made up but i'm merley saying sources need to be listed. And i never saw that icon....PheNaxKian(T/c) 19:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this just a magazine article copied over? Lord Belar 21:26, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

PCGamer. Content was given from ANet, so it's all valid. Calor (t) 21:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

So, why are we having this discussion? Lord Belar 21:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Because that copyright thing is barely noticeable. I'd say we should have some sort of prominent notice along the lines of "this is official anet stuff". Perhaps a page protection (though it might be already, I didn't notice), as it's not really gfdl. (Well, to be honest, I'm basing this off of D&D wiki's protection of all SRD pages, which are official word of Wizards of the Coast.) -- Armond Warblade 22:38, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

/agree i mean i started this topic saying that it needs sources-when it didn't because of the copyright symbol (meaning it's from A-net), which clearly shows that it's not clearly Visiable. Maybe make it about 10 times bigger or something or flash prostitute pink. idk anything that makes it stand out....PheNaxKian(T/c) 22:50, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Just make it larger. Lord Belar 00:05, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Disclaimer

Could we add some sort of notice at the top that this is a copied article, and no grammatical corrections are to be made, only technical wiki changes, such as links, copyrights, and categorization? Calor (t) 19:30, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

That should be signified by {{sic}}, which I believe most of the typos already have. In the cases that the typos are being corrected all the time ("yeras" anyone?), a "hidden" message is in the edit code. I think Gordon did the same on the GWW article and that seemed to stop people correcting the error. -- Brains12 • Talk • 21:16, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

eh, but how many anons know what sic is? And how many read hidden messages? Very few. It's "I see a typo, I'll be a good citizen and fix it". Calor (t) 21:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

At least they're anons with good intent --Gimmethegepgun 22:10, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

At least. Doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. Calor (t) 23:26, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

How do you fix the typo without reading the hidden message that is right there? -- Coran Ironclaw 01:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, its right next to the sic. I was assuming it was hidden at the top of the page. Ok, forget I bothered asking. Calor (t) 01:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Not fixing typing errors makes no sense. Ramei Arashi 17:05, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

It is copied verbatim, thus any errors made by the original are kept. This is done to show how it was released. If there are grammatical errors, put a {{sic}} tag after said error. This is done for in-game dialogue as well as articles. -- Konig/talk 19:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

What does how it was released matter? Typing errors ought to be fixed. Ramei Arashi 01:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

That's not how it is done though. This is to document, not fix. -- Konig/talk 02:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Amazing

What a beautiful piece of literature! The diction and imagery used was remarkable. The writer is really talented, seriously.

The writers are the people at ArenaNet who deal with, I would assume, the storyline and release of information. And it's very neat to say "Oh, so that's what happened to so-and-so. Calor (t)

Do you know what amuses me... "Guild Wars 1" Millions and MILLIONS of players saving the world and making all the little NPC Girls and Boys happy and then,they die or something? and no more heroes...

Dammit

Sounds like we won't be able to go to Cantha until late in the game, if at all :/.

I'm overjoyed at that. Factions and Cantha was meh, imo. Calor (t) 21:39, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Disappointing that, by the sounds of information released, that Guild Wars 2 is just another revisit of Tyria. Personally, having played the original and then GWEN, I've seen enough of Tyria for a while.

I would have thought Anet would have built upon what was already established in the whole of Guild Wars, not just one and a bit campaigns. Be disappointing even more if the campaigns for Guild Wars 2 are just revisits of Guild Wars campaigns. Still, early days so can't really complain. 118.92.35.136 05:24, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Everything I like is gone in GW2 :( Cantha, Vaabi, the rest of Elona... No asiatic flair anymore... why don't we play "american landscape wars"? The difference between all humanraces, landscapes was one of the mainpoints of GW1 and i loved it. But we'll see how it ends... I think in foolish PvP structures -.- (Bearform Norn Warriors, Asura only Elementalists) Mainstream characters ftw.. The skillcomplexity of GW1 is gone too i think, they have enough to balance with that races... every race/profession 20 skills? Sry, i try to think positive but this one... i dunno what i should think about it ^^ 80.121.104.209 23:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I think, and I believe I am not the only one with this view, that you are overreacting. Yes, we probably won't have Cantha or Elona at release. However, how do you know all the landscapes are going to be the same as they were in GW1? Things have changed with the coming of the Ancient Dragons. I mean, we haven't even been to some areas on the GW1 Tyria map, how do we know what's there or not? We simply don't have enough information to be running off making negative assumptions. Furthermore, what's with this deal about 20 skills for every profession? It is the first I have heard of it, and it seems rather, well, dumb. If you have a source for your assumptions, I really would like to see it. Otherwise, just wait for Arenanet to give us some more info. Marin Alacet 17:39, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

u may be able to acsess small parts at endgame if u have NF or Factions and the rest comes out with Factions and NF realies for GW2, Maybe a new continent, with no dragons end the storyline :P 66.233.201.54 01:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Marin, the Tyria in GW2 will likely be quite a lot different to GW1. And I'm expecting expansions for the other continents. — Hyperion` // talk 01:33, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

There's asura gates in both continents, and unless they've been destroyed there is hope of getting there. Although chances of them remaining are way below 1%. 84.9.237.178 22:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with hyperian here, while the other contineants might not be available from the off, it's likely that they will be released in expansions, or like with GW just separate games. There's not really been much mention of how it will be done (though i think they were leaning to lotsa expansions.) so all we can do is speculate. PheNaxKian(T/c) 23:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I personally see Vanilla GW2 dealing with the Dragons, and then an expansion that will open up access to Cantha and Elona, or that would allow players to start from there, or both. They put a lot of effort into describing the scenario in these places but it doesn't seem like we're going to get any farther than "kill the dragons" in GW2. 68.193.113.198 20:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Norn/Dredge War

"The Norn and the Dredge fight over control of these lands in a continual war that rages along the highest mountains."

I senses teh Alliace Battles. --Hawk Skeer 15:49, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

And the Humans and the Charr are in battle. But perhaps. Calor (t) 15:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

A 6-way battle (or whatever the number of choosable races is) would be rather epic to partake in. Especially if it it allowes a large number of players to be on each team during a battle. ‽-(eronth) I give up 20:16, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

12v12v12v12v12v12 ftw? :P --- -- (s)talkpage 12:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, we have been promised World PvP, so it's a possibility. — Hyperion` // talk 01:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Think of the lag that a 12v12v12v12v12v12 would produce lol --Hawk Skeer(Talk) 04:45, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that sylvari (nature) will like asura (artificial things, like Golems). Perhaps its Norn vs. Dredge, Human vs. Charr and Sylvari vs Asura. 88.130.209.181 15:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I smell a sort of War between Guilds? Guild Wars, perhaps? It'd be similar to GW1. Sunspear vs. Corsair/kournans, Charr vs. Humans, Dwarves vs. Destroyers, Mursaat vs. Stone Summit, etc.

Charr vs. Humans etc would be all but a Guild Battle/War/Scrimmage, since Guilds are open to all races (unless you make a racist guild >.>" ). --- -- talkpage 13:39, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I dont think norn vs Dregde will be alliance battles because u can be norn but not dredge by nature. Also, the dregde is deeeeeply evil so you wouldnt play it as a Tyrian hero. 95.119.20.66 19:16, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The Dredge are not evil by any means. They were enslaved by the Stone Summit, seeked *and gained* heroes' help. And after freedom due to the defeat of the Stone Summit, they took measures to make sure it didn't happen again - by becoming more war-like. Not evil, just bad decision makers. There would be no war with the Norn if they were not war-like when the Norn get pushed south. -- Konig Des Todes 22:33, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Dragons

Ok, so how many ancient dragons are there? Primordus, Orr, Drakar, Dalada, and the crystal desert one? I haven't actually gotten to the Crystal Desert in Prophecies yet, but can you actually see the hibernating ancient dragon? And has anyone ever noticed that there is a gigantic dragon/dragons/two-headed dragon encircling the Gate of Torment? The best place to see it's head is on the circular platform with the two merchants and three xunlai chests. Silavor 02:42, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

We don't know exactly how many yet. Lord Belar 02:46, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

if you look closeley you can see a dragon like entity under drakkar lake itself. and in grothmar wardowns i have the feeling the big spikey wall that you can see from the beach near the charr camp is grothmar.

There are six Ancient Dragons we know of. Primordus, Orrian, "Drakkar," "Grothmar," and the Crystal Desert Dragon *may be same as Grothmar* and the Deep Sea Dragon. The thing in the Gate of Torment is not a Dragon - it's just sky design. -- Konig Des Todes 22:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Cite Source

We all know that this is an almost verbatim copy of the PC Gamer article that was written by ANet's Ree Soesbee: http://www.pcgamer.com/archives/2007/09/92407_-_ultimat.html. There are no copyright issues to fear IMO, but we should at least give credit to the original source. --Longasc 09:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

the original source is A-Net they just gave PCgamer permission to print all that stuff etc. but a link at the bottom to the artical might be a good idea i guess....PheNaxKian(T/c) 11:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Protect?

Since we know there will be nothing more to add here, it would make sense to protect it against the depredations of well intentioned users who do not understand "verbatim." Lord Belar 17:56, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

German Translation

there is a german translation on wartower.de, made by fans should we link it? http://gw.buffed.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=347

I don't see why we would. If the Germans get a translation the Czechs might complain. 13:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

That's ok, the Germans will just invade them. Lord Belar 00:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

LMFAO

Sigh

the word "Verbatim" needs font 6 and a bunch of big tags imo. There's too many people changing the text >.> --- -- (s)talkpage 15:40, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Protect the page? There's no need for it to be changed, and if it does need to be changed for wiki purposes i.e. categories, a sysop can do it. Calor 23:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Autoconfirm-protected by Poke. -- pling | ggggg 00:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful :D Calor 01:15, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Imagine all the people...

Imagine if every single Guild Wars (1) character, with its heroes, was to join a massive battle against such dragons as Primordus.

Would it be enough? Paddymew 15:58, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

sure just make sure to bring mending. 70.135.119.164 18:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Probably not. we'd need some kinda special weapon...mabye the actual Eye of the north ---anomyous

The actual Eye of the North is the tower and i dont see someone being able to wield a tower as a weapon >.> Lord Caeliat 03:45, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think an Ancient Dragon could use the tower as a weapon (imagines a dragon picking it up and smashing it on a bunch of people). -- Konig/talk 05:33, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I think it will take some ppl to kill the dragons =P --Talk 19:32, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The Gods are not Gods

I'm starting to think that these 6 wonder-beings that Tyrians call Gods aren't actually worthy of that status. I have a couple things that might help back up my speculation.

Let's start with the basics. First there was Dwayna, Dhuum, Abaddon, Balthazar, Lyssa, and Melandru. Then Dhuum was replaced by Grenth. And then Abaddon was done away with entirely. This suggests that the gods are not almighty but they are subject to each others power. Which is fine because that might just be how it goes down in Godland. But then Nightfall comes around and we see Abaddon's body destroyed by human forces, and a human assimilates his power and becomes a goddess herself. How can an almighty power be absorbed by a human? There is still room for argument here seeing as Abaddon was restrained periodically during the fight, and Kormir may have been "blessed" or something.

However now the dragons have shown up and they've been described as "older than the gods" and "rivaling their power". I'm not sure where this judgment came from or if Decimus had the distinct knowledge required, however that is what we have to work with. And apparently Balthazar has shown up personally to rebuild his PvP domain in LA. None of the gods would show up during any time for any event from Prophecies to EOTN but now Balthazar is here to repair the work of Zhaitan.

Are the gods really the top rung on the ladder or are they another mortal race of beings floating around in the mist? I'm willing to bet that in GW2 we may see personal intervention by our "Gods" in order to assist with something that the Tyrian races just can't do entirely on their own. Apparently these dragons can ruin your day just be breathing on you, and they're HUGE. And there are five of them. 68.193.113.198 20:36, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The gods/goddesses in Guild Wars are not subject to the logic of the real world. Realistically, there can't be two gods that combat each other, as that would bring about irresistible force paradox, but in the GW universe, I guess that's different. The gods are just gods of Tyria-- maybe there is another being above them. *waits for Konig to give an elaborate answer*-- Shew 20:46, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

As for Kormir's attaining godhood, the avatars blessed her so that she could absorb all of the knowledge.-- Shew 20:56, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

It is stated by Apostate that "I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor." This strongly implies Abaddon was not the original god of secrets any more than Grenth was the original god of death. I can't see how we can assume ANY of the gods are the "original" gods. And what's with Menzies being the "half-brother" of Balthazar? Who's the shared parent? -- MrSmiles 21:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

You are suffering from a condition I like to call "monotheistic thinking" - in that, you view the term god as any monotheistic religion considers their god: To be all powerful and unable to be killed or defeated. This is inaccurate, the gods are not eternal, but they are indeed gods. They are much like the Norse or Greek gods, but also far from like them. In Norse or Greek mythology, you are born a god, but can still be killed - and one can only become a god if they are a demi-god. In GW Lore, nothing is born a god, but anything can become a god if one is able to defeat one of the existing gods. There could be as few as 6 gods in this world, or as many as 12. The six gods are definite gods, the Great Dwarf could have been a previous deity of the 6 who got supplanted (I believe this to be the case, and supplanted by Balthazar who fits the M.O. the most), or could have been a seventh god. Then there are the five dragons who has powers that rival the gods and thus could be another pantheon of gods (though I doubt this to be the case or even likely, but still possible).

For why the gods never showed up, it would be either because they didn't view themselves as necessary, or they had their hands full with Dhuum and Menzies (which Balthazar and Grenth, at least, actually are), or they refuse to intervene since whenever they did caused massive wars (introduction of magic) or altered the world greatly (turning an entire sea and coast into a desert and poisonous wasteland - aka Crystal Desert and Desolation). For them to intervene for the Lich or Shiro, would be silly. Kormir couldn't affect EN because she had her hands full with reforming the Realm of Torment into the supposed Redeemed Realm. As for them not intervening with the Elder Dragons, a recent interview with Jeff says that the awakening of the dragons scared the "remaining human gods" away - remaining, which means not all were nearby Tyria anymore, most likely only Balthazar and Kormir were interacting with Tyria before the dragon's awakening. -- Konig/talk 21:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

And thus I can't conceive how we're going to combat these dragons if they scared Balthazar and Miss Bravado away. Anyway, thank you for pointing out the polytheistic concept. Although we're still relying on outside lore to give a definition to the Tyrian gods whether it's the monotheistic "almighty" or polytheistic "norse" concept, which I don't think is right. I see the point you're making by comparison, but we should attempt to make a distinct concept since it's a seperate lore. Also, I always thought of the Great Dwarf as a deity distinct to the Dwarves and not a part of the main pantheon. We know about Dhuum being replaced by Grenth but there was never anything about the Great Dwarf being replaced by one of the Five. He was just the Dwarven guy.

The question I'm trying to pose is are the gods really fitting of that title, or are they just another race of beings that are highly advanced, similar to how our own world has theories of greater life somewhere out there.68.193.113.198 19:53, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

What outside lore is used? The Norse and Greek myths that I used in comparison was just that, comparison - not definition. We know the gods are not almighty. As for the Great Dwarf being supplanted by one of the five, as I said it is a theory. Not yet proven. As for the question you are posing, I find it highly doubtful - by what we know, the gods are only 6 and can be of any race - 6 beings doesn't make a race, the word god is more or less a title for an extremely powerful being. But that doesn't mean they aren't gods, because then there wouldn't be anyone of the title "god" - so to speak. Also, the dragons scaring off the remaining human gods might not even be accurate, as those are the words of the reporter, not Jeff Grubb. And even if it is accurate, 5 dragons who rival the power of the gods vs 1 minimum, 5 maximum, 2 or 3 most likely gods would even cause you to want to leave when death is near impossible to avoid in direct conflict. -- Konig/talk 22:07, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

To the IP: keep in mind that we don't know what is the source of the power of the gods. The six have been described as the human gods, so it's only reasonable to believe they were humans themselves before becoming gods, but their power may also come from their followers, and in GW2 the humans are far weaker than in GW1. The other races have their own gods (or other concepts of gods, at least), and I wouldn't be surprised if those were more powerful in GW2 than in GW1. Erasculio 22:39, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

To Mr Smiles one of the landmarks in the Realm of Torment is gw1:Abaddon's Dead Children and it that article it says abaddon just created them so it sounds like gods can create their children on their own or might kinda combine their power to create maybe a stronger demi-god. - Giant Nuker 11:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

It is unknown if that is even canon Giant Nuker. So we cannot deduce anything aside from simple hypotheses. -- Konig/talk 18:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Humans didn't exist while the Gods were creating the world (look in the Prophecies Manuscripts), so how could all of the Gods have been human? Also, as we saw with Kormir, it takes the power of the Gods to become a God. Kormir could not have usurped Abaddon without the Gods' blessings.

On a similar note, just because only six Gods are mentioned doesn't mean there are six. The six we hear of are only of importance because they are the ones the Humans worship. The Norn also worship some form of greater beings, whose power we haven't even seen for ourselves yet. --Fox427 05:43, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

If you were referring to the term "human gods" - that doesn't mean gods are human, it means that those gods are worshiped by humans. In recent interviews with Ree and Jeff, they use the term human gods instead of any previous term for the collective - such as True Gods, Six Gods, or Old Gods. As for the Spirits of the Wild, I think they are just that, spirits. Probably on Thorn's level of power (so they are able to influence others, can kill and resurrect on site like Envoys, and partially affect the area itself - though for a limited time). And just to clarify, the Norn don't worship the Spirits of the Wild, instead they respect them as greater beings. -- Konig/talk 13:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The Manuscripts don't state how the gods were born, neither that they would have created human beings, rather how humanity arrived in Tyria at some point in time. It's also never said that the gods need to give their blessing for someone to become a god, rather that it was used for Kormir to become a god. There has been no sign that Grenth had anyone's blessing before taking Dhuum's place, or that Abbadon had anyone's blessing before becoming the God of Secrets.

I agree with your point about there being other gods, though. The Great Dwarf, the spirits worshiped by the Norns and etc all could be described as gods, as much as the Six Gods are, well, gods. We could even guess that none of them are really omnipotent divine beings, just powerful entities who happen to have some powers of creation. Erasculio 15:34, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

We don't have any evidence that Grenth was ever not a "god." He was probably another powerful entity until he defeated Dhuum. Defeating Dhuum probably didn't ascend him to God status, he merely took Dhuum's title as God of the Underworld. Kormir is probably the first "mortal" for lack of a better word, to ascend to godhood. --Fox427 02:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

If I may suggest an alternate theory, I have always beleived that the GW gods have an equilibrium with their human subjects. For example, in the case of Kormir, she helped to banish Abaddon even though she had been so very disadvantaged in that fight. So achieving what could be comparable to sainthood in catholicism, the deities admired her abilities and allowed her to become a god. So I don't think there is some magical law about who can become a god. However, I think that because the elder dragons are so powerful, they may be overriding the power of the gods, considering their power has been so long dormant. I actually think it would be interesting if the deities' power is inert, making them more mortal. (Plot twist, yes?)Celle

I still want to know how Charr and White Mantle got healing prayers answered, since Titans and Mursaat or not gods. And 250 years later the charr are atheists, so how do they get healing at all? Ramei Arashi 04:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Magic is not created by the gods. It's that simple. Prayers are not, in reality, prayers but chants of spells. Prayers is magic and magic was introduced to the races (not created) by the gods. And this wasn't even the case for every race, as at least dwarves, seers, mursaat, and charr predate humanity and the gods. -- Konig/talk 04:25, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

That makes no sense at all. These Tyrian gods are sounding more and more like they're really just powerful magic users, little different than Mursaat. I got it, GW3, the humans finally decided that the 6 are false gods and need to be killed. Ramei Arashi 17:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

But the 6 ARE gods, they just aren't "omniscient" nor are they immortal... very similar to the Greek Gods. :) --Amannelle 17:13, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

What is a god? Is a god a leader? Is a god a more powerful being? Is a god omnipotent or omniscience? No. A god is what people call decide a god is. The GW gods are a lot like the greek, norse, or pretty much every polytheistic god. They have eternal youth due to one thing or another, and they are far more powerful than any mortal, but they are not immortal nor are they omnipotent. In this aspect, the elder dragons are gods too, assuming that they have eternal youth. Take out the eternal youth, and you get a demi-god in the typical myths. -- Konig/talk 19:21, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

So as I said, little difference between these 6 gods and the mursaat or the titans. Ramei Arashi 01:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily... there ARE significant differences between them all, but they could all be called "gods". After all, the Krytans called the Mursaat the "unseen gods". --Amannelle 01:46, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a huge difference. The mursaat and titans are merely another race (well, the later is a group of constructs created from spirits), the gods are not a race, they are not subject to age, they have powers over a vast area and are simply put just a lot more powerful than the mursaat. And do keep in mind that Dhuum and Abaddon are in their weakened states (just breaking out of their prison). -- Konig/talk 02:02, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

In the beginning, there was nought but chaos. Nothing existed, save these elder spirits, these dragons, creatures sustained by their own raw willpower. Eventually though, order formed from the chaos - the True Gods. Being of the same source, the True Gods could not do away with these dragons entirely, but instead replaced these draconic spirits, imprisoning them in prisons of flesh and bone, in the new world of life and order the True Gods had created. For a time, the dragons slumbered, and the Gods ruled. Now, however, the dragons wake from their dormant millenia. Their stronger, more chaotic conciousness displaces that of their other halves, the Gods. The Gods are forced to flee and abandon the world they love and created, and it is time for the dragons to rule. There is one last defense the Gods left to save their world of order from the chaos of the dragons - us. Just my 2 cents, meh 90.206.126.8 14:13, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Just a small thing

At the start of the article it is mentioned that Kormir ascended to be a god in the year 1075. When clicking on the Primordus link to read up on his history, it is mentioned that "Primordus was the first of the elder dragons to awaken in Tyria. Encased in stone and initially supposed to awaken in 1075 AE, Primordus' awakening was delayed by two generations upon the defeat of his most powerful general, the Great Destroyer." it can hardly be so that Abaddon was defeated in 1075 and the great destroyer in the same year, or even earlier, now can it? I don't know what the correct information should be but this seems false to me. Opinions?145.99.193.159 08:32, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

it is possible abbadon and the great destroyer where killed in the same year since The Great Destroyer possed such a great threat to Tyria the heroes had to react quick and possibly kill the great destroyer in the same year or there is a possibly connection between abbadon and the drakes if you want some theorycraft. Fox007 08:51, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

I remember reading that the events of EotN take place after the events of NF (I think by about 1-2 years), so there's defiantly something wrong. 84.43.93.64 11:01, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

looking at the primordius article i think i see the confusion:

Primordus was the first of the elder dragons to awaken in Tyria. Encased in stone and initially supposed to awaken in 1075 AE, Primordus' awakening was delayed by two generations upon the defeat of his most powerful general, the Great Destroyer.

basically i think there's a small amount of overlap, you start the events of EotN just after the ascension of Kormir, which starts to delay primordius' awakening until you defeat the great destroyer, and delay the awakening by ~50 years. 84.43.93.64 11:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Nightfall was 1075AE, EotN was 1078AE. gw1:Timeline. - Tanetris 16:24, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

The confusion is just that the Primordus article is off by 3 years. Going to change it. -- Konig/talk 18:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay i made a difference 145.99.193.159 18:34, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protection

Maybe semi-protect this article? It's not going to change much, but some people obviously can't read. I see at some point it was protected, but seeing as people are still making edits that isn't the case anymore? --Santax (talk · contribs) 07:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

It is still semi-protected. I'm guessing this wiki doesn't have some of the config settings we have on GWW, so all registered accounts are considered autoconfirmed, so semi-protection only stops IPs. - Tanetris 08:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

So why not just go to full protection and block everyone but admins and sysops? -- Konig/talk 16:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Varesh has a child?

How did the Ossa line continue? --173.66.189.216 04:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Varesh wasn't the only Ossa. Did you honestly think there was one single line of a family, with only one family member during Nightfall, over 200 years? Varesh was the leader, not the sole Ossa. -- Konig/talk 05:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)