User talk:Torrenal

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Hi, I have moved [[:File:User_Torrenal_InProgress.jpg|this file]] to your user space as it doesn't really have any use in main space. Oh, and welcome to the wiki, I guess. :) --zeeZUser ZeeZ Sig.png (talk) 18:24, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Hum. So *thats* where user-space exists for files. Tried uploading it to user:Torrenal/foo.jpg and it dropped the user prefix.
This will ultimately beg the question of 'will the Guild pages for GW2 have the same namespace as the guilds for GW1?'. Will see in time. Torrenal 14:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Currently there will be no guild space on this wiki. - Infinite - talk 16:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Meaning any of?: Currently there >is< no guild space. Or currently the plan is to not have a guild space. Or??? Torrenal 19:13, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
The plan is to not have a guild space, and instead have users document their guilds in their user space, or externally altogether. - Infinite - talk 19:43, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Note to self[edit]

Resume karma vendors w/ screenshot 247. Torrenal 05:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

resume Karma Vendors pass 2 w/ screenshot 337 Torrenal 05:11, 30 May 2012 (UTC)


I didn't realize that you had just created that project page I moved. If you were working on it and lost any work because of that, I'm very sorry. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 04:58, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Second time today, in fact. Fortunately, no real loss either time. Mostly I just want the formatting stubs to *exist*, so that people can contribute to them. I don't care much about where they are, and ain't too fussy about content. Having them gives a good focus for discussion and for recording what design decisions are made. Torrenal 05:01, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

While you're at it...[edit]

If you're looking for more templates to collect, you might want to check out Talk:Rune and user:Infinite/Runes (though I don't know if the table discussion stalled out or not). The formatting for runes/sigils/jewels is maybe along the same lines, but I'm not familiar enough with the other two systems to really say. Redshift 05:19, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm out of time for tonight. If you want, you can dummy up a page template, and grumble at the respective locations to have people move design and style conversations to the new page. Or you can wait for me to do the same tomorrow. Torrenal 05:24, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Haha, I'm out of time, too. I'm also not quite thinking straight. So we'll see what happens! Redshift 05:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


Since I feel like I've been brainstorming with you most of the week, I did want to note that my hours on the wiki are possibly and probably to be muchly reduced as the real world returns to my schedule. I think there's been a lot of useful construction in the past few days, and a lot of these discussions benefited from approaching them in the templates and such :). I'd definitely keep looking for feedback on the other infoboxes—I just personally haven't felt informed enough on some of the other systems to comment on them—and well, looking forward to getting a good stream of info up for the wiki's pages (and hopefully a non-conflicting BWE 3 date at some point). Thanks, and cheers. Redshift 10:35, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Ty for the help and input. It's been a big plus having you around as you have been. Torrenal 17:14, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Might as well mention here that I'll also be less active starting tomorrow - I took vacation last week because I knew there'd be lots of work to do on the wiki following the BWE, but now I have to go back to my job. :( (Although if the client is still dragging their feet on approving projects, I may have enough free time to do some little stuff around here, we'll see.) —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:47, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
and if the API developers get off their thumbs and fix more bugs than they create for a change, I'll be into extra hours getting real work done.... Life is. I just hope we got sufficient structure together that others can follow the path we've laid forth, without having to pave it all by themselves. Crafting, seriously, can make/break the usefulness of this site relative to its competitors. Torrenal 04:19, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Sandbox split[edit]

Hey, I moved your new table to the talk page, since it's substantially different from what I was proposing. If we cram that much detail into a single table, I think we need to remove all of the redundant text (e.g. green inscription or bronze plated inscription only have to appear once each), otherwise I think we've defeated the purpose of generalizing recipes. This version also hides the meaning of affixes, e.g. "Mighty" always means Power (only the amount varies with item type/level). One third problem is I'm not sure how well it scales. From 0-75/100, you get simple inscriptions (one bonus); the next set of products gets double-bonues; and I presume there's a tier of triples and another of quadruples. But, there's probably only 6 variants per tier.

That said, I do like how your version shows the similarities across levels more obviously, especially the comparison between simple/master/ordinary. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:08, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

If we axe redundant text that may eliminate width concerns with my table. The one thing I DO like, is it puts all the content onto one screen. My other version (not yet drafted) puts the same content into a vertical format, which at higher levels may require scrolling (multiple bonuses & all). A problem I've had with just about every crafting page to date is a need to scroll to get at all the content. The afix values will be important for min/maxers, and the inscription/insignia pages don't have that info in a point-level detail, and probably can't carry it. Correct: Level 60 crafted gear has 3 bonuses, I already dropped what I know about those onto the Inscription page -- Shaman's may not be real (found on a Mystic Forge drop) and the others all came from Jewelry, which put the names last ('foo of the Knight'), not first, so actual text may vary, but judging by lower level jewelery, the names correlate). No bet on the # of types at higher levels. With a limited number of stats, the low level stuff can only come in so many versions. The high level stuff could be far more diverse, even giving 3 bits with the same bonuses, but giving a higher boost to a different bonus on each. I'll wager you a silver that the level 80 stuff has 4 bonuses. Torrenal 05:33, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
I have some data about second tier armor (arbitrarily using "tier" to match "number of bonuses"), so I might be able to make a stab at your version, removing the "redundant" text and including the next set of bonuses. (Maybe I'll devote an hour during the stressful test to copying down recipes I have that don't seem to have made it to the wiki or to GW2 DB.)
And yes, it would be best if the content fits reasonably into a single 1200x800 screen (but ... I think it's ok if it doesn't, too.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:23, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
As of BWE1, popups wern't capturing in screenshots or I'd have a ton of tailor stuff contributed. As of BWE2, they were, but I had plans to avoid crafting or I'd have nabed the lot (Just now getting into tier 3 crafting, but I need a few more levels before I can get at the insignia there) It looks like the tiers have actual names, so we may want to work from those for official doc. Torrenal 20:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
In your [H]ero menu, there's a list of known recipes, which should make getting screens easier. (What I did was copy one version and then take notes for the others, sort of prototyping our genericized presentation.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Popups are indeed hidden on screenshots - I run GW2 through Steam and take screenshots that way. You can also use Fraps, Xfire, etc. - see the list here. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 20:40, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
Some of the last screenshots i have from BWE2 include poups. High-qualidy screenshots of water-reflections, and of the character selection screen were still wonky (as were a fraction of my underwater shots) but I did get mouse-over popups for heart inventories, and things in chat. Torrenal 20:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Dye Palette Sorting[edit]

The palettes were sorted by grayscale (going from darkest to lightest), so that a user could more easily sort through them. I can understand the desire to have other sorting styles. Please weigh in on the matter over here before continuing modifications. -- Dosvidaniya 01:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Prove It Or Lose It?[edit]

There are a number of things that I'm coming across that I don't think actually exist, specifically Gold Mining Pick, Golden Logging Axe, and [[Gold Harvesting Sickle]], how should I flag them for more info or screens? Verify? Wombatt 01:42, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd leave them alone for now. Until all the areas are unlocked, I'm sure there are things out there that are in the game, have an article, but no one has seen in BWE1-2. Plus, ANet keeps tweaking, so I expect things that are confirmed today will be removed tomorrow. I think we should assume that every article is a {{stub}} and requires {{verify}} when the game goes live.
I recommend reserving those tags for very specific situations: {{stub}} for when one is working on an article over a few hours (and it starts out sparse). And {{verify}} for when there's a clear conflict between screenshots, player reports, and/or you just remember it differently or inexactly. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
It may be that the object was in the game and got renamed, it may be that the object does exist, but only in high level areas. It may even be that the object never existed. Properly, those would fit under different tags (no tag, {{Historical content}} {{obsolete}} {{delete}}) The trick however, is in figuring out which, when we don't have proper access to the game for sorting it out. For now, I'd drop a note on the talk pages and leave it at that. Presently, when I use a {{stub}} or {{verify}}, I'm putting with it some text to explain it, eg: {{verify|is he a butler or a bodyguard?}} or {{verify|Conflicts with xyz, is it req 50 or req 25?}} —Torrenal 02:31, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

extraneous headers[edit]

I don't know how many other places this has been done, but I noticed just now on Sharp Fang and Vicious Fang that you included two headers for the recipes: ==Recipes== and ===Recipes requiring X Fang===. The second one seems extraneous on those pages. —Dr Ishmael User Dr ishmael Diablo the chicken.png 03:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Copy/Paste from Simple Fang. I was just looking for a spot to put some icons I ferreted out for the bank panes. Suppose I can do a hunt/kill on the few pages I touched. —Torrenal 03:31, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

How can I help?[edit]

I really like the work you're doing on Tailor and related pages -- how can I help? -- Frozzen 19:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Hum... parts of the design are up in the air (more than one way to design them)... parts of them I'm reluctant to add, for fear that someone else may take them in a completely different direction than I have them aimed.
For the moment, could you work at filling in mantle red-link I'd added, following the pattern I have established on the armor types? I'll start working on a rather simpler sub-component page, but you stand a good chance of beating me to adding most of those too. With a healthy set of these in place, I can then quickly add one more table (and 3 pages + 3 red-links) with little fear of the pages being hijacked, and main Tailor page can then be properly cleaned of all the spammy recipes. —Torrenal 04:16, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Looks like the crafting components (coat panel, shoe sole, etc) will be mostly the same. Which... Hum. I'd much rather be playing with SMW for this next bit, or push things down a level, but I can get snazzy for it, I think. There are tradeoffs, but I think it'll resolve the largest material complaint I've seen yet. —Torrenal 05:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I've filled in all of the red links I believe... Should we begin clearing the tailor page of the recipes which are now covered by the first table? Once we've done that I'll add in the stats I have for all the items from recipes I discovered during the beta... -- Frozzen 07:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
Edit: should we also contact the people who are the main contributors to the other crafting pages to ask them to take on the template we've been using? -- Frozzen 07:16, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
nice work! Before you remove any recipe, make sure it's duplicated in the proper place. A few of them didn't make it into the sub-pages, don't lose them entirely. And, no to notifying the other pages of the design, it's undergoing some debate & revision... One version: 16:21, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


Hi, nice work on the inventory templates :) I was wondering if you'd mind me suggesting that we rename the group of inventory templates to remove the "/" in them. "Template:Inventory" doesn't exist, so having what appears to sub-templates seems strange:

  • Inventory/Table Header ⇒ Inventory table header
  • Inventory/Item ⇒ Inventory row item
  • Inventory/Armor ⇒ Inventory row armor
  • Inventory/Weapon ⇒ Inventory row weapon
  • Inventory/Accessory ⇒ Inventory row accessory
  • Inventory/Recipe ⇒ Inventory row recipe
  • Inventory/Table Footer ⇒ Inventory table footer

Sorry to be nitpicking. -- User Sig.png 05:44, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Yay... Wiki is up. And i have a message...
The point of the Inventory/ is what matters to me, not the implementation detail.
it serves a double purpose. First is to pull the related templates together into a grouping or collection. Second is to keep the set as a whole from cluttering other lists (or that's the intent). If there's a standard way for wikis to do that, the by all means move things in that direction.
I know I wrote the things, I just currently don't have time to spare on upkeep or enhancements or such... Apologies. It it needs doing, it'll need doing by someone else, or wait at least a month. 19:00, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm not asking you to be the one working on it. I know it's for grouping, hence I preserved the prefixing; I'm just wondering if you'd be opposed to any sort of renaming, which I get the feeling that you are not too keen, so I'll leave it at that and maybe come up with something for "Template:Inventory" to tie them all together. -- User Sig.png 04:13, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm thinking maybe "Template:Inventory" can be turned into something that ties all those other templates together, to make things less wordy for common things, such as generic merchants that sell the same set of things and such. -- User Sig.png 10:53, 31 August 2012 (UTC)