Talk:Lightbringer Tybalt Leftpaw (mist champion)

Call for deletion

I see this has already been called for deletion, I disagree with this as all other champions have a page describing all of their abilities and involvment in Stronghold; Tybalt has absolutely nothing on it aside from the npc page, nor would it belong there. These two entities are separate and deserve separate pages in my opinion. -Darqam (talk) 03:56, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

They are the same character in-game; different instances of every other character are maintained on a single page. Claiming it deserves a separate page because you created a new page instead of adding the information to the existing page is misguided. And the naming for this page is completely off; missing the full name and disregard for proper spacing. —Mora 04:04, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

If there is a nice way to implement these details into an existing npc page, by all means merge the two, but I did not see how that was possible, therefore I created this page. I do not claim this deserves a separate page because I created it, but because I believe it is needed, I could be wrong and will accept the admins' judgment(s). I am aware the naming is wrong, but since it was called for deletion as soon as I put it up, I did not want to go about moving the page around and editing how I displayed it in order to avoid having it look like I'm trying to 'hide' the page. If the page stays, I'll be happy to properly format it all, but until a judgement is made I will leave it as is. -Darqam (talk) 04:21, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

First of all, neither Mora nor I are admins and merging the pages would be decided by consensus among the users. Admins only intervene if a consensus can't be reached.

Multiple instances of the same NPC by name doesn't mean we have to merge the pages. There are a few reasons not to do so here. The mist champion is not related to the instances of Tybalt in PvE, has his own set of skills, needs to be categorized into mist champions, and is located in a separate game type. The other advantage of a separate page is to avoid canonical spoilers for the NPC. I see all the reason to keep a separate NPC page for him.--Relyk ~ talk < 05:43, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Both versions are directly related, that claim is complete nonsense, and separate skills has never been a basis for splitting. And {{spoiler}} is used on the page for a reason, so can you please explain how you view that as a potential issue for merging? —Mora 06:02, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

They aren't related in any way that would justify merging, unless you want to be more specific. Different skills, abilities, game type, and location are a basis for splitting many pages on the wiki. A separate page means we avoid spoilers for players who need information on the mist champion but haven't encountered Tybalt in PvE yet and PvP players who aren't concerned with PvE. You remove that advantage if you merge the pages.--Relyk ~ talk < 07:28, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

You're still pushing a made-up issue that the current Tybalt page has spoilers shown, which is just untrue. The page has appropriate information about the character shown and spoiler information is within the template. Your argument could be used to split nearly every single page on the wiki:

• Grymm Svaard has his backstory pulled from the novels, which are spoilers, would you also suggest that it is split between Grymm Svaard (Mist Champion) and Grymm Svaard (lore)?
• Kudu has different abilities and locations yet it has somehow done its job on a single page for this long.
• Captain Mai Trin is a complete spoiler for people who are wanting to read information for Season 1.
• Captain Ellen Kiel has spoilers for the story with her progression through the Lionguard and Council.

Please provide examples that splitting pages based on your qualifications is a common practice that has been followed up until now. Splitting the subsections of every page just because you want to is a terrible practice; it is the same character and should be on the same page. —Mora 07:57, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

The point is separating the information related to each game type so we don't waste the time of readers. While having multiple instances of an NPC on a single page is a common practice, it doesn't make sense here. To justify merging the page with the only reason being "that's how we always do it" is simply belligerent.--Relyk ~ talk < 08:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't think my vote really should carry all that much weight, but I would agree to merge and have one page for all the relevant information on the various incarnations of a character. That said, I do see the appeal of having separate pages. It would achieve a consistent format within the context of mist champion NPCs: one that is lean, light on lore, and provides only what a PvPer deciding which mist champion to take during the match ready period needs to see. However, if the goal is easing the overall user experience it would make sense to have something like a table on the Mist champions page that compares their capabilities at-a-glance, while having the complete details on the character's page itself. The ultimate goal would be to reduce the effort it takes for the user to obtain the information they came here to find. In some cases it is better to organize into separate pages, and an argument can certainly be made in this instance. I'm just trying to see it from a perspective of what is both best for user experience and maintainability simultaneously. Traeler (talk) 09:06, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

I do very much see why there is the appeal to merge the pages, as with all the other champions they have all been one one page. The 'problem' with Tybalt is that he is the first GW2 npc to be in this category, so we already had a page to describe his involvement in the player personal story; whereas other champions see their first appearance on the GW2W. My issue with merging the page is that a pvp player looking for info will have to scroll through 'useless' PVE information to get to the description that he/she is looking for. A PVE player will randomly see those abilities while looking at his Whispers buddy (granted not that much of an issue).

If we are also caring about consistency, then we need to make sure that any notes concerning his health and abilities are clearly denoted as separate from the PVE npc, as his health and abilities are completely different. To me, I would say separate with a disambiguation link thing (that's the formal term right? :p) at the top showing there are two links, one for the mist champion and one for the story NPC —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darqam (talk • contribs) at 16:54, February 6, 2016‎ (UTC).

Looks like you could use another opinion. I concur that merging the pages would be a rather unwise choice. Having all of the information on one page would drastically slow down the process of retrieving information, which is rather counter-productive. I consult a wiki to save time while acquiring information, by having to skim through a whole page full of information that is irrelevant to me at that moment, you are forcing more information on me than I, or any other player, desires. Aside from this, for the sake of consistency, particularly in the way the respective pages are presented, having a separate page makes more sense than a merge. talk 11:25, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

(Attempts to revives discussion) I'd be happy with this page being split from the mist champion version. The other mist champions happen to be complete nobody NPCs with only mist champ content, whereas Tybalt is one of the player's favourites isn't he? Additionally, I think the Mist Champion content is much more obvious on this page (Tybalt Leftpaw (Mist Champion)) than when it is merged into the other page - obvious as in clearer. -Chieftain Alex 18:05, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

My opinion on the matter remains the same as before so I won't copy it over again; I think that there should be a split between 'pve tybalt' and 'mist-champion tybalt'. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darqam (talk • contribs).

Gonna jump in and agree. The differences between the two versions are drastic enough to warrant a separation. If we ever get a Sieran mist champion, I'd hate to see the lore on Magister Sieran combined with unrelated PvP elements, therefore I'm all for the split. —Ventriloquist 19:43, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Holding the perfected rifle?

The image appears to show him holding the Perfected Rifle, can someone who plays PvP confirm if this is true? SpaceNerd95251 (talk) 09:56, 14 May 2023 (UTC)