Talk:Armor (attribute)

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Is this Armor?[edit]

There is the new player statistic of Armor - I'm pretty sure this is it renamed. I'll move the page but I don't know which suffix to use to disambiguate it from the actual bits of Armor (which I think will be the more popular page). Any thoughts? -- aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 23:46, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Moved to "Armor (player statistic)"[edit]

The statistic was renamed, so the article follows :). —Proton 19:50, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Potential move[edit]

I find the current page title to be a bit... icky... (for want of a better word). Would something like "Armor Rating", "Armor rating" or "Armor (stat)" work better? ShadowRunner 22:01, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree that it is not very aesthetically pleasing. However, whatever change you make to the base word "Armor" needs to be able to work with "Attack", "Critical Chance", and "Health". Even if something like "Critical Chance" doesn't end up needing a disambiguation suffix, said suffix needs to be able to apply for the sake of consistency. —Proton 22:24, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Are we keeping this article for consistency purposes? Would it be more effective as a section in the main armor article? --203.46.11.172 22:10, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
The idea of armor = the item you wear and armor = the defense you get from what you're wearing are two different concepts. It is probably easier to explain them on different pages. -- aspectacle User Aspectacle.png 23:40, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to revive this old discussion topic once more; correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't armor be a statistic used by mobs as well as players? (presumably, all combatants in the game, player and AI alike, have some sort of armor and attack statistics, and I'm assuming things like critical chance and the like would also apply to AI mobs as well.) With that in mind, I'm in favor of a move to Armor (statistic), since the article will likely end up covering all instances of the armor statistic, not just for players (assuming once again, but if it works like a majority of other games, armor rating will result in damage reduction using the same mathematical formula in all instances). --User Jioruji Derako logo.png Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 11:41, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I think that we can indeed move this, regardless of it working the same for mobs. The player part is superfluous until proven the player's armour rate is unique. - Infinite - talk 11:45, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Trait line[edit]

Defense seems to be a warrior trait line now, so this page probably needs reworking, yes? Eerie Moss 15:22, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the triple edit. Defense currently redirects here, but in the press beta "Defense" is a trait line now, so probably needs its own page. That is all. Eerie Moss 15:24, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Defense is still the face value for armor rating on any piece of armor in the game, and is a cornerstone in the calculation of armor (player statistic) (which is simply speaking the sum of all equipped defense values added to Toughness.png Toughness, hence the term of armor toughness for that stat, and attack power for its counterpart). --Leonim 23:23, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Clarification[edit]

I was reading the page and came to this:
The boon protection reduces damage by 33%, while the condition vulnerability lowers armor.
there's 4 links, but the pairs look like they merge and become one link, if there's no distinction. Are there any practices for making distinction for improved readability? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.39.94.86 (talk).

Sorted. - Infinite - talk 21:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
does Protection reduce damage or increase armor/toughness? If it reduces damage then it need not be referenced here at all. But instead there should ..err.. could be a reference that armor is not the only mechanism for reducing damage. llandale 05:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

What damage is/is not reduced?[edit]

Current page says some damage is reduced by armour. Can we get a citation? What damage is reduced and what damage is not? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Darreljnz (talk).

Damage is reduced by armor/toughness (I actually believe they may not be any values such as Attack or Armor - they are just values of Power and Toughness instead) to some extent. This takes effect after calculating in Protection and possibly after other things which affect damage dealt such as player level and critical hit damage multiplier. Mediggo 06:58, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
I believe the question was in reference to this particular line, "that reduces some types of incoming damage" (emphasis added). To my (limited) knowledge, there hasn't been any mention of particular damage types that aren't affected by toughness; at the very least, there's no such info here on this page, so if there is a particular damage type that ignores armor/toughness, it seems fitting to mention it here. --User Jioruji Derako logo.png Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 13:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Conditions and their damage over time seem to be uneffected by armor. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.223.20.70 (talk) at 15:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC).

Armor value, Toughness and armor (stat)[edit]

I assume this stat is the result of armor value of items and further multiplied/increased by Toughness and directly reduces damage? Mediggo 09:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

How does it work[edit]

I browsed every page related to armor and damage mitigation, and i still don't understand how much damage 1 point of Armor mitigates, anyone care to clarify? --Rapid Sausage 03:12, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

If will have to be a diminishing return (you can't reduce past zero, obviously). In most games, armor will increase your effective HP. Since this doesn't diminish, it's a simpler way to think about it. So if you want to find the effect of armor, you should take a hit of consistent damage with 0 armor, then take the same hit with 1 armor and observe the value. It is likely that this value reduced (say, 2%) is how much effective HP you get for every point of armor. Unfortunately, I don't know what it is. The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.134.147.218 (talk) at 19:09, 2 September 2012 (UTC).

Armor Test[edit]

If anybody wants to crunch numbers...

Foe
Level 2 Cliff Bat by kiddie cave outside Divinity's Reach.

Character
Thief (medimum armor)
Stats
Actual - Effective
Level - 10 - 5
Toughness - 64 - 41
Armor - 172 - 131

Average Damage Taken
With Armor - No Armor - Armor with 5 +3 Toughness Gems
18 - 58 - 16

Method
Strike bat once to get it to attack.
Let bat attack until character health dropped to point where healing would restore back to full, which would activate stealth and stop bat from attacking.
Let bat restore back to full health.
Repeat

Method was repeated 10 times for each armor level.
Normal attacks were very consistent to the averages listed above. There were several cycles where damage did not vary from the averages.
There were several high damage hits (critical hits?) which are not included in the averages.
There were several Glancing hits which averaged half of the average normal damage, which are not included in the averages.
Please excuse the formatting, first time poster.--192.168.104.83 23:34, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

It's not flat EHP per point[edit]

According to the damage calculation that I've seen, you're not gaining flat EHP per point of armor. See here: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/60838-math-damage-reduction-toughness-and-vitality/

It's kind of convoluted imo. It can be simplified to RawDamage / TotalArmor = DamageDealt

If you run a few examples you'll see that to cut in half current damage you need to double current armor as opposed to a linear EHP system where adding the same static amount of armor will always cut in half current damage. --71.204.168.131 03:54, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Pedantic quibble: if halving your current damage always requires a static amount of armor, you're not in a linear EHP system, you're in an exponential damage reduction system (like GW1).
Though the post you link doesn't directly present any data to justify the formula you're using; it links another thread which links another thread on a site where the main post is unreadable without a login, and neither of those other threads appear to have comments referencing the formula. I'd be more comfortable relying on this formula if I could trace it back to a primary source. --Felbryn 03:30, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
To start with, it's an overly simplistic calculation. The effective health increase, as mentioned above, will depend on what you consider the base armor to be. For sPvP this is relatively straightforward, since you only must consider exotic tier armors. Even then the values will be slightly different based on your armor type. For PvE and Wv3 it's somewhat less straightforward, since you can no longer assume any particular armor value as a base. Also, condition damage ignores armor, which makes the utility of EHP in general very questionable.
And on top of that, the number is wrong. You don't double your effective health vs direct damage with only 916 armor. I'm removing the bit about EHP. ~ Capric 04:58, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Here are some calculations to show how armor and HP interact to provide an eHP pool:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor) <- from Damage article.

let's simplify this a little bit:

Damage = attack / armor, where attack = weapon damage * power * skill coefficient

Now, you're dead when the sum of all damage is equal to your health. Since your armor value doesn't usually change during battle, we have:

sum(damage) = health = sum(attack) / armor, where sum(attack) is the sum of all of the attack values of all attacks that hit you

So, after some more math we find that you stay alive until:

sum(attack) >= health * armor

Basically, you die when the sum of all attacks that hit you exceeds your health * armor. So, this means that your effective HP is linearly proportional to both your HP and your armor. To get the common notion of effective HP, we just need to choose a armor value that we will define as the default. If we assume level 80 for calculations, and assume exotic light armor with baseline toughness (i.e. no toughness from equipment), we get 1836 (= 920 defense from armor + 916 baseline toughness for all level 80 heros). Thus, we can define eHP as:

eHP = health * (armor/1836), where eHP is the amount of health a no-toughness light armor hero would have to have to match your survivability.

It should also be noted that you will often need to choose between a certain amount of Toughness, or the same amount of Vitality on a given piece of equipment. To maximize eHP in this case, you should choose toughness if health / 10 > armor, or vitality if health / 10 < armor. --Frazazel 05:18, 1 March 2013 (UTC)