Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Helpers

Archive

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Archive 1

Logistics problem...

How are we going to be able to implement the new helper page while acknowledging the ones who haven't responded yet? Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps leave a message on their talk page for next time they get it, so they can confirm which part they are best at? (Personally, im good with code and user page layout, but i see that the page is done alphabetically.) yeah, couple hours of RC spam, but does it matter? Best now then when we get the next prof. reveal. --Neil • 23:42, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, but what about the people who have gone completely inactive. I doubt that anyone who created their account 3-4 years ago and hasn't had a single contribution since is checking their talk page on a regular basis. :S At that point, I question the choice to go hunt them down elsewhere or the choice to leave their names up there. Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:45, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Basically as per Neil; leave a message on their talks and add the ones who responded. In the mean time, add them in a seperate list that can be an expandable, to appoint their inactivity and uncategorization. - Infinite - talk 23:49, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Pretty much what was said. As for those who are "completely active," well, they wouldn't be around to help anyway. If they come back they'll find the note, get sorted, and life goes on. --ஸ Kyoshi 06:26, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Ok, ive got an idea. How about, we remove all the users in red because they are "Non-Active" helpers for a game that isn't out yet, we'l put a message on their page saying "You have been removed from the Gw2w:Helpers list because of Uber inactivity, If you would like to re-join, go to Gw2w:Helpers and add your name to the appropriate section!." <- that sound fine? it'l vent the red dots from the list. Then we'l leave that "Could you please specify a section you are good at on the helper page?, just remove yourself from the uncategorised list and put yourself into one of the other sections!", then what we'l do is after a while, when theres just 1 or 2 people left in the uncat. list, we can edit that (then almost empty) list out, with the remaining users on it being removed from the helpers list and given the red-dot message, then they'l add themselves to a new section, then we're fine. Also, where did the idea about flags go in the end?- some people need to know if other are like, Romanian or sumthin. --Neil • 11:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I can agree with Neil. Sometimes it is best to just sweep it through and making it clear to everyone involved that it had to be done. And not to forget that it is best to do this anywhere between now and the reveals of information or the release of the game itself. The activity will go up from this month onwards, people will want to know where they can go for help. Will want to see who seems best for their questions and not finding themselves talking to an inactive helper. ge4ce 11:15, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

"can"  ?  :'( --Neil • 11:18, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

So why are we not doing this now? ._. --Neil • 11:21, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Many roads lead to Rome Neil. Who knows what other possibilities there are to solve this without having to just redo (that's what I believed to read from your suggestion) it all. I also believe you can't just sweep through it, because it might cause confusion towards those that not actively participate in these sort of discussions. Forcing them to read parts of text on the discussion pages or having to ask a helper as well. I might be overreacting, seeing how we're dealing with an activity of under 100 people a week. I do not have an idea on how many visitors we have. ge4ce 11:24, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Well i was going by the dot system Aqua did.. wups. --Neil • 11:28, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

That looks good by me. ge4ce 11:33, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

IMO, this page does need some big changes, but beyond those that Aqua plans to do. Categorizing people based on what exactly they can help with is a great idea, as well as classifying people based on activity, but I think the main problem with this article is that it lists people who think they can help, not people who can actually help. We have quite a few names on the list of people who not only haven't been active here for a long time, but who also lack the ability of helping others. I think we should change this list so it only has people who can actually help. Erasculio 12:49, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

How do you expect to do that? >_> --Neil • 13:14, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I mean, theres only four people who i havnt seen (personaly) edit mainspace in the past year, thats User:Xerelin, User:Zachariah Zuan, User:Roach and User:Randomtime- i mean. i stalk. alot. --Neil • 13:22, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

It's also difficult to tell the difference between inactivity and merely not editing. ShadowRunner 13:37, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Well thats assuming we dont leave a message on thier page, isnt it? and if your not editing or at least talking/discussing, theres not much point being on the helpers list if your just going to lurk and say nothing.--Neil • 13:41, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

But as soon as your talk page is pinged or you see someone else asking for help, you are likely to assist. I've made very few edits lately but still check for people needing assistance. ShadowRunner 13:43, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

But thats the thing right there, isnt it, "If you see your talk page pinged..." Someone like you, who doesnt edit much, but lurks, would reply to that message (of where to be placed on the helper page, for example) and you would answer questions. But then theres lurkers who are not as frequently on Gw2w as you or ones like you- those are the lurkers im getting at. --Neil • 13:56, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Aha, I see your point. In that case leaving a message on each listed helper's talk page (as mentioned above) confirming activity and going from there seems to be the best option from my point of view. ShadowRunner 13:58, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

real talk. does anyone actually use this page to find help? i always figured these were huge wastes of time. -Auron 13:59, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

And auron strikes again </3 --Neil • 14:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

However, its true. I still question the use of a helpers system. Mostly, if people need help they go ahead and ask someone they see on a regular base at the wiki or someone who has a nice userpage or something. -- Cyan 16:02, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

To be honest, the effectiveness of the page remains as undetermined as the activity of some of the users on it. - Infinite - talk 16:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Helper programs, if nothing else, provide users with a list of people who have offered to help. It is a lot scarier (couldn't find a better word) to ask a random person in RC a question than it is to ask someone who has stated on a page like this something like "please ask me any questions you may have." Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 16:47, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

New Design

Well, we've designed and redesigned for about 5 months, and, through the combined efforts of myself, Neil, Venom, Infinite and others, already ready to present this as a suggestion for the redesign of the helper page. Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 17:20, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

1 ge4ce 17:21, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks great. --ஸ Kyoshi 21:25, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

IMO, we should implement it now.

After implementing it (after), we could discuss a few more changes. Holy Dragon's flag is being pushed below his name, which looks a bit ugly (isn't it possible to make the flags a table column so that kind of thing doesn't happen?). I would also remove those who haven't responded on their talk page. Erasculio 22:45, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

We never pinged their talk pages in the first place... Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:10, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I would also remove those who won't respond to the notice that will be on their talk page. Erasculio 23:21, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

So, shall I add the page design that I will be adding sometime in the future? ;) Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:25, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

If you want another thing to work on, you could use the variable functions for active/semi-active/inactive designations (see GW2W:ADMINS). :) pling 16:30, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Just a suggestion: Instead of having people add their name under multiple columns, why not have a table with names being the rows and types of aid being the columns? We could use a symbol like check marks to designate the types of aid people will provide.-- Shew 16:41, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

It's more important to sort by area of expertise than by person - when I look for help, first I want to see the kind of help I need, then I'll go to whoever in that section seems best. pling 16:44, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

true-- Shew 16:45, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Shew, I had already thought of something like that. I was testing it [[User:Venom20/Sandbox/Helper|here]], but as you can see it is far uglier and the page is rather large. Venom20 16:56, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) @ Pling: I was thinking about it; I wanted to get the new (more helpful) page uploaded as soon as possible. That's my next project. Also, do you know if its possible to write a code that checks when your last contribution to the wiki (or mainspace) was and updates your activity level appropriately? :) Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:19, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Flags

Language or country? i.e. I'm American, but as this is an English wiki I only indicate that I speak Spanish... I think one or the other would be a good idea; it's already complex enough visually as is IMO. Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 23:22, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I also don't think we should necessarily indicate English, but the way it's formatted right now, it seems as if it's saying I live in Spain, rather than that I speak Spanish. --ஸ Kyoshi 00:15, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not a fan of the language flags, they seem to clutter things up a bit. Venom20 01:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree, but the acception is that flags are intended to indicate languages you speak (which includes English). They are in no way restricting you to be labeled as a "only spanish" speaker. - Lucian Shadowborn 02:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

"If you speak a non-English language". That is all. Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 03:00, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I might also be misinterpreting the entire conversation. I am saying that as this is an *English* wiki I do not need to indicate that I speak English. But currently, as several of the other users (i.e. Lucian, Pling and Neil) have done, they are using the language template as a way to express nationality instead. Nationality, IMO, has very little effect on your ability to help others (ignoring timezones) but knowledge of other languages does. I just want to know if people would prefer we expressed nationality or linguistic ability. (It's one or the other, there is really no middle ground that is not confusing and cluttered). Aquadrizzt (talk)(contribs) 03:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, well...I'm American...simply using it to say "Hey, I speak english so only ask me english questions, guys." :). I honestly don't care either way seeing how this is a english wiki. I removed my flag. - Lucian Shadowborn 03:29, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure I care either way. Might as well let users do what they want to do if you ask me. Eive 05:42, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Timezone

Wouldn't it be easier if users indicated what timezone they were in? So that people could understand the time elapse before resolve? :P - Lucian Shadowborn 03:31, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

That would be counteractive as in this day and age, timezones are not a reliable way to tell when a user is online. For instance; plenty of users stay up over-night whereas other go to bed timely. - Infinite - talk 11:24, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Would the world end

if I just removed all the really inactive (i.e. 2 years + no contribs) editors? Aqua (T|C) 01:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm for just deleting the page altogether. The very few people who have ever used this could be served better with the Ask a wiki question page, where they don't have to research or guess who is active, and are more likely to get multiple, increasingly detailed replies. The helper page on GW1 has been a bloated mess for years, because no one can agree on deleting old names, and signs so far have pointed to this one becoming the same. Manifold 05:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't think this page is actually that easy to find to someone new, which made me question every aspect. Whatever we do with it now, however, is counter-productive in the future in the sense that, post-release, the activity will likely sky-rocket and the help on random talk pages will be greatly diminished. If we make this thing more obvious to new users it would be better than deleting it. As for the names, just improve the note about the activity. - Infinite - talk 09:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Its been a long time without any other comments, but this page is useless. It does however provide a pretty userbox :P (bet most people who put their names here just came for the box) Chieftain Alex 23:56, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The people listed should just be fully pruned every other month, to keep helpers up-to-date and the page relatively helpful in finding someone who may explain things. In general, though, this page is hardly used. - Infinite - talk 00:07, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Just redirect to user talk:dr ishmael, nothing would change. -Chieftain Alex 19:35, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Purge and refocus

I'm embarrassed to say I don't recall ever being to this page, and probably wouldn't have come here if it weren't brought directly to my attention. Either tonight or on the weekend I intend to cull the list and hone the categories. For example, we don't need "Practices and Processes helpers" because we really don't have any beyond play nice and work together. I may just pare it down to "Content" and "Back end processes".

I'm also going to lose that creepy smiley face and much of the preamble. Other suggestions would be welcome. G R E E N E R 21:42, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

I'd like to propose a few things for the help section in general. First, it was not easy to find how to get help. Help:Contents is an ugly wall of text to me, but I am far from being a webpage designer and don't know how to make it more welcoming. Second, Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Helpers isn't even linked to on that page. I'd like to at least address that, even if the helpers page doesn't improve.

Which leads to to my next point: The helpers page needs to improve. I've done a quick mock-up of what I'm thinking over on User:Greener/Sandbox2. Clean and to the point. No wall of text preamble. No relying on a category to continually keep non-helpers showing on the helpers list. I did my best to steal some code to lay out how I'd like the table to show, but I need help creating the header and row templates, plus I don't know how feasible it is to run that "Activity level" indicator in the row template.

I'd like to see this page, and perhaps a few others become more accessible for users. The whole point is to help them. Feedback is appreciated! G R E E N E R 06:00, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

We can easily create a row template, but I think it would be good to not embed every single table within a template call, especially if its part of the help pages. I've created a dot template, though I had to resist calling it "Template:Fancy user activity dot"!

I've got a biased opinion on the layout for Help:Contents because I rewrote it from this - which is perhaps more what you think that it should look like. I didn't link to this page from Help:Contents when i updated it, largely because in its current form this page is useless. You and I know that if anyone posts on any talk page on the wiki, someone else will probably read it too, it really doesn't matter where they ask the question, but if we have a list of friendly users, so be it. -Chieftain Alex 16:30, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Okay, so Help:Contents has improved. I'm aware that how I visually parse and take in information is different from others. So while I may not enjoy the current version, I'll freely allow for it to be conducive to others. I will object to the lack of pizzazz which I requested in the group name, and the dropping of the word "fancy" in the template ; ). G R E E N E R 17:41, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Not sure how I found either by the way, as it's primarily liked to User pages of users who aren't active anymore and archived talk pages. The few instance where a link to here isn't, is on the main page in the bottom corner, the Guild Wars 2 Wiki:FAQ page, and Help:Ask a wiki question which people probably use less because they're more likely to go ask on the community portal, ie not very prominent locations or spots that get a lot of traffic I would wager. Additionally the nav template used here, {{Help navbar header}}, seems to be sort of the same as {{GW2W navbar header}}, but with half the pages it links to not using the nav itself. If this is to become a thing it should probably be in a place where more editors/newer editors are likely to see it. - Do_odleplex 18:42, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Moving on to other pages

I know these help pages aren't the most trodden, but some spit and polish may be needed after all these years. Alex helped me tweak the Intro to editing page, and the others in the {{wiki help nav}} are where I want to head next. It's admittedly difficult to approach the pages from a new editor's perspective!

If these are up to snuff, then perhaps we could highlight the pages in conjunction with the next Living Story update; treat it like a community warm-up for the next full expansion. G R E E N E R 18:09, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Resuscitating myself after a month of curve balls. As I said above, I would like to highlight the help pages when the next Living Story launches, which is on Tuesday! I've scanned over the help pages, and many are in better shape than I initially thought (or I'm just not able to put myself into a new user's shoes). I'd like to know our comfort level with highlighting either Help:Contents, Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Helpers, or both with the launch. Perhaps with a simple banner? G R E E N E R 19:20, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm going over Help:Tables (new name!), but Help:Reverting is another wall of text that needs simplifying. -Chieftain Alex 22:26, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Working on the Reverting page now. Thanks for looking at Tables (the bane of my wiki life). Also, I feel this edit may be an example of me not seeing the tree through the forest. G R E E N E R 23:21, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Help:Reverting is looking great now, nice job.

Help:Tables is still nasty but I've removed the difficult examples. The STDT parameter list was a bit out of place too.

For the next pages to cleanup, I think we should consider merging or aligning Help:Uploading images and Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Image formatting. One could be a light tutorial, and the other a super detailed version. -Chieftain Alex 11:40, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Those examples you added on Help:Reverting were just what was needed. I'd tried to put some smaller example pictures into the sections, but they were both distracting and not as informative. I'll take a gander at the images later tonight when I have a good span of time to sit with them. G R E E N E R 20:18, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Sorry re0reading what I wrote above, I wasn't meaning to be director-general-of-content, it doesn't have to be either of us, and it doesn't have to be any article in particular. It's all good. -Chieftain Alex 21:16, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

But, what am I to do with these crossed sword and baton pins I got you for your epaulettes? G R E E N E R 23:17, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

How about we move the help page to Help:Uploading screenshots (and make its content related to screenshots only), and keep the other gw2w space article for a more official less helpful answer. -Chieftain Alex 17:58, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Finished my rewrite. -Chieftain Alex 21:41, 25 July 2017 (UTC)