Guild Chat - Episode 58
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Guild Chat - Episode 58
- Title
- The Hall of Chains
- Host
- Rubi Bayer
- Guests
- Jason Reynolds
Jessica Teddy Croft
Byron Miller
Kriss Watt
Samantha Rogers
Franco Galletta - Date
- December 15, 2017
- Official video
- YouTube
The following is an unofficial, player-written transcript of the episode. The accuracy of this transcription has not been verified by ArenaNet.
The 58th episode of Guild Chat aired on December 15, 2017. Host Rubi Bayer interviews some of the developers involved in the Hall of Chains raid release.
Transcription[edit]
Jason, Jessica and Byron [7:45][edit]
hi everybody and welcome back to our latest episode of guild chat I hope you guys are all enjoying winter's day we're talking about the newest raid wing today so we're gonna jump right in I'll let our dev guests introduce themselves Jason hey I'm Jason Reynolds I'm a game designer and team lead for raids i'm jessica croft formerly a designer I'm Byron formerly and currently array to think you were a raid designer but you still are but I still let you guys tell us a little bit about what you each worked on for this raid so let's see so team lead so I kind of like oversaw everything but what I actually made was the broken King and the eater of souls you have you have made the broken thing I have made the broken game we should definitely get into that I mean you also steered the whole release he's like you're the reason this happened I mean I worked on specifically does Mina but also a lot of the earlier parts of the raid so the the ghost fortification that you're in in the beginning you also did the pre-event the pre route oh yeah about that yeah all the stuff that came out prior to the actual release so the dead bodies and the spirits and the journals and all that stuff that's me and I was the designer for Doom and I did most of if not all of the rewards work so the bench of the and the precursor and all that stuff was me I mean to Hugh may I'm sorry that's right everyone's been pronouncing de Hugh M wrong it's and this is totally for real and legit but is I feel like that's a lie but go ahead I mean wooden potatoes gonna back me up on this one its day hewn it's an old pronunciation from some forgotten languages yeah that was dumb alright chat which one is it let us know okay so why Byron only why you only have made the broken King seems like a good place to start you just get tired yeah I fell asleep hat so as with game development quite developing things sometimes you make adjustments or the story changes or something doesn't fit or it's out of scope or you know pick a reason game development happens game development happens and so there was a boss the duet of mortality if we want to call it that which had a really interesting mechanic that we wanted to keep but we didn't have room or the ability to do what we wanted to do with it and so it became the broken King would it be amazing if we just had unlimited time and resources to do everything we wanted to yeah I'll just give you guys a second to think about that magical world by everything we wanted to I'm skeptical this is an imaginary world I just roll with it that's fair I really wish we had kept the name duet of mortality because that's totally like a JRPG and boss name yeah boss is not a JRPG which we're fun to do like a throwback to the stuff I think well you're the team lead so now that's what everybody thinks that true I do what I want but Byron often goes rogue and that's when the really fun stuff happens but you mentioned Guild Wars 1 the whole thing is like a huge Guild Wars 1 throwback and how much fun was that to make it was really fun I mean I I played a lot of Guild Wars 1 I don't know that I actually went to underworld I definitely didn't fight doom and gilworth 1 when it was you know the high no I mean I did like and I would get run through like a Fisher whoa and everything but yeah it was really great being able to do the research on it and just learn about all the lore and the little bits and the fun cool things that have generated over the last you know over a decade and then working with Lindsay who actually made the original doom encounter and getting her input on it and sort of watching her just and I enjoy seeing her her sort of legacy move on and grow so it was it was really cool experience I should have assumed but I didn't realize that Lindsay had a hand in this but oh yeah yeah she probably kind of loved that okay Jason you worked on statue of ice and statue of death yeah okay yeah yeah so statue of ice is a broken king event that we just talked about creature but this the statue of ice is where the encounter takes place and then the the statue of death is where the eater of souls sort of resides and and what we wanted there was I mean we wanted players to learn a mechanic that happens during the doom encounter but we also wanted to make it sort of fun and have its own feel and I wanted there to be a lot of splitting the players up into teams so that somebody has to do one mechanic while the other players are doing another mechanic and they just kind of support each other and I think it turned out pretty well it wasn't designed to be you know a proper boss fight yeah so it's not incredibly challenging but it does require that players work together and communicate and have a strategy going in which turns out Byron and I talked about this way back when we started doing raids in Guild Wars 2 how important it is to have encounters where the players need to communicate and cooperate and work together and it's neat to see that you guys continue continue with that I think it's a pretty core fundamental like we were talking about a jillion years ago with raiding is that I think that like coming from as an active Raider in other games and in our game I most of my memories are about the times I spent with that group of people I mean I I know Jessica and crystal like from 10 years ago because we we met each other rating and to like 13 I don't know but but that have told me those stories I love them right and I think like yeah like we I remember you know being up for 28 straight hours doing things like rating and and I remember I with rose-colored glasses of course how our that was and how like terrible I felt at times but those are the rose-colored glasses dude wait no yeah actually probably true because probably worse than I remember but I came out of that with really lasting friendships and really lasting relationships with those people and I think that's like one of the things that people tend to overlook with rating is is what that can do for you I mean like with any MMO it's all about community right and rating is yeah kind of like one of the pinnacle pinnacle events you can do in relation to community cuz like you you're you are a hundred percent rely on everyone else in your raid performing and knowing what the plan is and communicating cannot be okay I mean it's it's all it's all about like a hundred percent what did you do Jason just always sitting around waiting I remember your nickname from when we raided there's only gonna be a thimble full of salt when you say this okay coming yeah cubby can help we'll get into that in another time like a cupcake a lot of that really gross picture of Myron cupcake Miller did every to get that do your words is a wiki I will I will change the subject and ask Jessica that doesn't mean oh god I love Harold you pulled this out of a single line of lore in Guild Wars yeah doesn't mean it was a blast to work on so sometimes we have storylines that have carried through from like ages ago like from the beginning of the war as one and we've had a plan for a character all along does Amina definitely wasn't one of those doesn't mean I was an instance we needed we needed a boss and we needed a powerful figure that you could kind of learn from and work with and I went back I looked through Guild Wars 1 lore for the underworld and I found this passage about rents first follower who's does Nina and the passage which I believe him find the wiki is like the only reference to does Nina in the in all of go where's one and I believe there's a there is a point in Chris called this Mina's Hollow so like there's not a lot of stuff behind des muna and it was a rule it was a pleasure for me to be able work with Lindsay and just the whole narrative team to try and flesh out this story for des Mena and make a full-fledged character out of her and I I'm really satisfied with how she how she came out just seeing like seeing the voice actresses put the voice actors put voiced her was like watching like life being breathed in a play right some but yeah sometimes our emergence characters are most interesting ones so did it make it easier I'm actually one I've been wondering about this did it make it easier to have this clean slate to work with or was it harder not having much to work not much to go on I mean it's a different sub challenges a clean slate you have more flexibility sure but you also have you have less structure right you could potentially do something stupid the on the flip side like working of a character that's been in lore for a long long time you've got you you really want to honor that character and honor the intent of the people who created the character and take the characters story in a direction that makes sense for them but also continue to grow the character so it's it's a completely different challenge but they're they're both tough and the under roll is full of callbacks as which I'm sure everybody's noticed and because of that it required a lot of research and a lot of talking to people who actually worked on the original content just make sure we were honoring those memories what I got a lot I got a lot of PM's about why doom doesn't yell in all caps just remark you not all of the callbacks made it but that one was well the chest of doom still didn't have that one line that was all caps oh yeah I think it's rather than editing people here on our party yeah I don't think what was it I think they I think one of them is still in all caps I think it's the transition line for Phase three but like I think it's like something like you cannot contain the power of death or something like that that seems like an all cap statement right I think so yeah grammar I was on Team all caps like I won of all caps but for that particular statement I will join team all caps I uh I appreciate that that doom in the last 250 plus years has taken some time to chill out and to brutal Korra lounging yeah you see him in that chair and you're like that guy that guy knows how to get his chill on me so let's talk about the doom fight a little bit and I'm saying doom you guys can tell me about the fight where the whole thing first you cut your left foot in front of your right foot so that's gripped in the fight so doom was it was real interesting and I think we have some like like you say I'm saying like you go through a process of what works and what doesn't and we went through a lot of changes with doom regarding both the mechanics of what we were trying to convey and whether or not we were doing like the aesthetic and what we were whether or not we were actually accomplishing that and I think that what we really focused on mostly with this was the sort of ritual aspect of what is happening in the fight the reapers again as is been happening for thousands of years have come to reseal doom maybe it goes a little wrong this time maybe someone meant for that to happen maybe someone didn't you know it sort of remains to be seen but both both the the the narrative aspect of the ritual and the the fight mechanics sort of length like are designed to be one in the same you know you have very patterned behaviors that you that you do expecting the same outcome and those things are fulfilled you you you send a person to take the place of a reaper so that the reaper doesn't get killed and that person then goes up and performs a thing by eating these little energy orbs you know as you as you are - as you were want to do and these that process of repeated and repeated and repeated one of the big parts of ritual in in an anthropological sense in a cultural sense is the repetition of behavior towards a sort of agreed-upon symbolic or spiritual and endgame right and so a lot of what happens in the doom fight is based around that concept the concept of doing the same thing the right way is is your path for success and I think there's a moment where we turn that on on its head for an important narrative beat but in large part I think that's what the goal was with the design of the thing very pretty happy with how came out I'm thrilled with how it came out are you kidding it's great oh my gosh everything about it is like I look at it so I came out of out of the Bastion right out of the best of the penitent and and that was sort of the first time that I had designed boss fights for Guild Wars 2 and and then also implemented them and and I learned that I learned so much from that experience that looking at how this was received how players played it how the goals that I set forth for players were being actualized is just all it's really incredible to watch I think one of the great successes with Doom is the actual narrative of what's going on there is actually the mechanics you're playing through a lot of boss fights have this thing where the boss fight is kind of divorced from what happens next whereas doom it's the thing that happens next is all tied in with the actual actions you take during the fight yeah yeah that's something that we're trying to do more of with raids like they're having encounters that make mechanical sense is great but what I feel like makes it really interesting encounters when it's also telling a story or supporting a story through mechanics and so that's we started pushing on that more with with doom first year yeah having the combat and the narrative having all of that meld together seems like such an accomplishment so I'm glad you're pushing on that and it takes a smart a lot of it is really hard yeah but you guys just work in a vacuum and do it all by yourselves and whatever you want right I think we're back in that imaginary exactly Byron you implemented the rewards on this yes there anything in particular you're extra happy about Go Go well I I'm really so man I had this crazy idea to put sitting in the game and we got mount tags and we got and and so like from the beginning I was like man you know it'd be really cool if doom was just like watching you for a good part of the fight and just sort of like evaluating whether or not he's even worthy to come down off of his threat and then I was like what players could do that what if players could sit in judgment of others on the bench right and I and I feel like yeah and so we worked I worked with cot and Bryan cots our animator and Bryan's is one of our environment and prop artists to to build out a series of special poses for this chair reward that you can get as a as a drop in the thing and and and someone I think it's dropped a couple times now and the first person who got it I it was really funny actually I went in game because I saw the post I was like and I went to like find the person to whisper then we'd be like hey Congrats I'm so excited for you I'm so thrilled and they were perfect that's exactly what people are gonna do with this like I called it a while ago they're just going to sit and look amazing while they do it and go and leave their computer everybody can take those screenshots and that they don't have to like you know they have to pay attention to it it's just like it's a way of saying like hey I look like I got a I got a message like 30 minutes later being like oh hey you know thanks see how I like the prediction was perfect do we don't have any of those have dropped so far I know of two I don't I don't know if there are more and they the the container that it drops in is tradable but I don't think anyone's put it on the trading post right like I wouldn't I would I would double-click that thing in a second and it puts like the thing is like it puts you in this cool like that Asura are like I like the Norn females got this really regal like judgment ban the poses are really cool oh my gosh we need we need a gallery if this somebody just go through every character you have make sure you have something in every race because I need to see them all in some of them are similar I think the the rig's that share similar animation machines or rigging share some poses I think um human male sylvari female and male and noren male sure at the same poses there's some that got special ones they just obviously can't do the like real far back lean and the char sit there and like tap their claws on it's so good the Asura could do the real far back lean it's just their feet stick straight I don't know what happens act I wanted them to be lying backwards on it like like leaning back but like I just know how to sit I think what's really cool about it yes exactly right they just like what this has come before always but one of the things that's cool about it is we built this item alongside a bank of animations that it can be extended right and so like if we when we do more stuff like this we have the option to extend it to other parts of the game I know there was some concern about like you've added sitting behind the hardest possible boss in the game behind like you know like behind a random drop like we built it in mines that we could extend it to other places so you can look for those things I'm waiting for this Looney tune came to like just drag my office I don't know man if they needed a Looney tune cave King me I had some things like I'm so glad you brought that up and I'm so glad you went there because I've been thinking like all week how do I ask this without sounding completely combative and like you know why Byron so thank you for letting us know that that's a thing that can be extended because that's awesome news I mean that's good news for everybody who like me probably will not have that reward anytime soon not that attitude you're right I'm not that's believing okay I believe that I probably cuz it's Friday and Christmas is coming in up in I'm busy all right so we know that's like that was one of your highlights we have this reward um why don't you guys tell me about some more things that you especially loved about creating this content but please don't all fight over going first I mean I really I I still really did latched on to being able to throw in sort of like hidden Guild Wars one references and like little Easter eggs I don't know the players have found all of them but there's there's some cool stuff hidden around there and and yeah do you wanna do you wanna just wait I think you can give hints if you want but I'm not gonna make you know I mean they're they're fun and they're they're just sort of references and you know Jessica worked really hard to have references between the early release content and like stuff that's in the raid and even if you don't want to or aren't able to like you know kill everything in the raid right now you can still sort of hop around and find some ledges and whatnot and so threatening but yeah like there's stuff to go find and explore in there and it's fun little lower bombs yeah there's especially if you're a long time player it just feels good to go in there and see what all you guys have put in there so Thank You Lindsay yeah the more T Surrey content the the stuff that came in the release prior to the actual rate release was really satisfying for me to work on just because I I wanted raids to have more of a place in the actual world I think some of the earlier raids suffered a bit from the fact that they kind of exists largely in this vacuum there they're a place you go to you and the story doesn't tie into the meaning as much as it could whereas with the underworld you find clues that that lead to the conclusion that you're going to underworld before the actual release and also there's this kind of this call that doesn't mean it's sending out that you actually see the ramifications of on NPC's in the world and you see people trying to answer to a call and dying and that gives us the rate of much a much more tangible link to the actual court area experience and I thought that was really that's really satisfying to do it's also super satisfying to watch everybody speculate about what does this mean who read that kind of like one person got it on the thread by though in the reddit thread one person was like you know it could be this one in like call that des Mina and then like there was like radio silence after that post for that person I was like oh man like one person one person gets it right and then like five people call him an idiot yeah I mean because that's reddit you're not and one of the really fun things for me has always been when speculation threads start all over the place someone always will stumble on it just by law of how many people are speculating someone's gonna accidentally hit that bullseye and it's so much fun for me finding that person and then just waiting and I always want to do like a little remind me but I've never your personal account there was one guy who I don't remember what the content was but they were like oh my gosh if Guild Wars 2 does such-and-such I will give my firstborn and it was a Monday and they had hit it on the head so I came back after that content released and just said hi you may call me Ren that feels good come to collect all right so before we take a moment and swap out with a couple more dev guests I would love to hear you guys talk about some of these stuff that happened in development that maybe needed to be fixed and please explain this note that I have about little do Me In The Great Escape so will do me so our internal name for the challenge moat Kreacher the enders echo that spawned some challenge mode he's basically or a Dumba right he's like a Roomba right he chooses a direction he runs in that direction till he hits a wall and then he chooses another direction he's not particularly efficient at it but we called him little team and we were having a play test and the collision on the door hadn't been set up yet or properly but the implementation for the challenge mode was working and so we went in to test it we you know we activated the challenge boat and like he spawns in stress running it was like okay the way watch out like and then and then we start fighting the boss would get really into it and someone at some point was like hey dooms dooms left he's running down the door kept on going and just knit we never saw him again and it was just sort of this moment we were like well yeah I guess that was gonna happen you found the portal to tyria no not quite I have to say that I'm completely throwing in my vote for calling him Doomba Doomba that was you just missed the boat not leaving that there that was so good I liked it you could put a cat on top of him with a knife taped to the side and then it's a dude then it's actually a doom but you see that yeah I know I'm just giving you that look like right I totally forgot about that but good job remembering um Jessica you had an attack mechanic on des Nina that seems super infuriating and I didn't I didn't want to know until right now if that was deliberate and you just decided it was cruel so it was deliberate hey the original version with DES Mina all her attacks knocked back and a lot of the gameplay around her was trying to manage her your positioning on the platform so you didn't go flying off the edge like just thinking about which like I still like that mechanic but in retrospect maybe a little infuriating we did a lot of play tests and like and festal got a little bit bad at me I read speak face like he did not get out of the way enough I did not and I hate getting knocked back there are some benefits to it in that it bypasses some of the mitigation that players tend to rely on a lot in our game so it challenges you in different ways but the simple fact that you lose control your character often there's also like a thematic reasoning which is the necromancers don't really have a lot of knock backs that's true and they tend to be more like you fear things or you poison things there were you having your minion I do that that's a necromancer warrior dude laughs this is a hammer it's a scythe hammer where's the hook so two eight point I mean I hate losing control of my character that's sure that's the thing that is super infuriating to eight point if I get knocked down or if I get knocked back it's because I was being bad and did not get out of the way I was not paying attention so to a point those mechanics are great because they're willing on something but every attack I would be so angry don't get hit you fire that bad down is your fault fine to a point whoever made her calm down with this thank you there's like if you ever seen the early versions of most fights they're usually there's usually something in them that will make you throw your keyboard this is why we played that's great well yeah that's that's hilarious and great for leaving it in there to a point thank you guys very very much we're going to take a quick break and introduce some more deaf guests so thank you guys I will let you get back to work
Kriss [36:06][edit]
all right I am here with one of our web programmers here to Reno net to talk to you guys about a feature we recently added to the game that you were very happy with so Chris I'll let you introduce yourself talk a little bit about what you do here to reading it sure thanks my name is Chris what some people might know me on Twitter is black line chess I've been here in net for two years moves over to this from the UK a year ago and it's been been fantastic here yeah I work as a programmer on the web team and so we do various things kind of around the game so all of the game websites there's projects inside the game so I think it's like the Trading Post in the gem store I specifically have kind of worked on the path of fire launcher which was a big rebuild and yet recently these kind of books interface which we just shipped with episode 1 yeah the path of fire launcher was a really good project that turned out beautifully and everybody was super happy with it but more recently the books in her face we added into game and got a hugely fun response everybody seems very very happy with it how do you and I know this is something that's been in the background for a while and we've been trying to get this off the ground how did you come to be the one that brought this to completion sure it's life so it was probably about a year ago somebody else on the web team started off kind of kicked it off as a side project kind of quality of life feature they wanted to see in the game and there's a lot of people around here and they're players who've wanted to see it for a long time yeah so they kind of got it to a kind of proof of concept and then I picked it up from them built it out kind of what there is now and as you say we've been trying to get it kind of launched into the game for a while there was kind of talk about getting it into a couple of previous releases there was talk of getting it into a path afire itself yeah and then we finally managed to get it in it found his home in episode 1 awesome thank you so much were you were you watching play reactions when it went in there yeah well it's um it was funny it ended up we kind of got in on the second day that was it was a hotfix that actually enabled it in the end you said kind of various complications and so it was sort of a stealth launch really we kind of soft launched it and so yeah when we finally kind of saw things start popping up on social media that was really excited to see players yeah that probably was really really gratifying as much work has going on behind the scenes yes definitely it's definitely one of those projects that kind of has kind of died and then been brought back to life a couple of times well thank you for making at the Phoenix event not sure all right so you've got hopes I mean we're not just gonna throw this down and walk away you've got some hopes for this in the future yeah that's definitely the case so we've had some fantastic feedback from players one of the biggest crises for kind of some kind of bookshelf a library system which is something there have been kind of questions about but we have nothing kind of like solidly plans yet the thinking was that we would get this out with Episode one see what the feedback was like and then hopefully kind of look at doing some more things to it at some point in the future Ida would definitely I'd definitely like to working on these kind of quality of life features is probably my favorite part of kind of working here as someone who played the game for kind of three years before I joined her Internet it's still very much my favorite thing today yeah it's really gratifying to get that in the game and know that you made this difference yeah absolutely so well and like we've talked about the keychain and we talked about the additions to material storage for a long time it's not just like a one-and-done okay it's been a week we've got this thing out this is kind of an ongoing thing yeah absolutely that was that was the plan we wanted to get this kind of first iteration on it first base system in which is you know a fantastic kind of addition to the game I think and then yeah take it from there and see where we can make improvements and kind of add new features yeah it'll be fun to watch over time where this goes official alright well thank you very much Chris I appreciate your time and thank you guys also for all of the feedback on this thanks for helping us make Guild Wars 2 better
Jason, Samantha and Franco [39:47][edit]
all right we are back with a couple more of our developers for the latest raid wing I'll let you two introduce yourselves and talk about what you worked on for this raid I'm Samantha Rogers I'm a creature artists and I worked on doom and that's about the world Hayden I'm Frank of leather the effects lead for ego wars too and I worked on the raid for the effects standpoint okay so I want to talk about redesigning do because we've got like this guy that's been around for ages and bringing him into this game seems like a big job so how did she get started on that it wasn't like all by yourself I had help from like everyone where did you start I mean actually you gave us some really awesome concept art that kind of helped me see where you were going with this but you choose where did you start bringing from Guild Wars 1 in Cold War's - I think either our concept artists or our animator was the first one to get started on it Thank You Sveta yeah so if you want to bring up the yeah that feta did like the first official concept for it and I think at the time the story for him was different so there were some things in it that I decided to take out and our animator cut also did some paintings for him for of his idea he jumps in a lot first thing to throw in his ideas for the raid bosses I've noticed I keep hearing his name it seems like he was super helpful yeah he's uh he's really in turrets I'd say yeah a concept caught one of our animators and he's done animations for I think all the raids since three maybe two I think you worked on two actually which is okay well if you can't remember we're all in trouble yeah I think he actually did the white mantle boss which is Mathias oh yeah I still call everything by his internal names fortunately doom is doom internally depending on unless you wanna have a fight about how to pronounce it yeah generally it's that guy how should I explain that the weird pronunciation things you can't if you like theirs so internally when we don't have voice acting done we use Robo voice oh there's rubber voice and so every time dooms name is said he would go to human that's how I call him the whole way through [Laughter] yeah Robo boys we've talked about Robo voice on the show before and I've gotten such a kick out of how it has trouble pronouncing some things and I was saying on a previous show the highlight of my career as far as that goes was hearing Robo voice try to say which was amazing just like a perfect it was like it was just like a little buzzing noise it was fantastic I remember it used to say Balthazar Balthasar yeah sir I'm so sad that I've never got to hear her voice see do it was enchanting alright so Franco do you want to talk a little bit about your work on this rating oh well is definitely a collaborative effort from everyone just coming together and trying to figure out what works best like the designers doing they're working on instance they're trying to get the player through the instance and Pat them through when the effect standpoint we want to make sure that we're helping communicate some of the skills a design and it actually communicates what they're trying to achieve so messaging it's a big part of it so I also come out with a color palette that works well with the environment and also you could tell that it's coming from that particular boss yes because there's so many skills being thrown down and so many different other colors I feel like greens and blues will feature very very heavily and what you're working with when you're setting this up yeah yeah what we did is early on we ended up just getting what the map looked like the base and just doing a seeing what local color is in the environment and then from there we could get our color palette ranges and from the effect standpoint know what works well doesn't get too lost especially where it's important with the communication yeah I'm messaging so where did you start with communicating as far as like the final encounter since Samantha work to undo manned by or unscripted that fight where did you start on how do we want to communicate everything how many different teams are you working with here well it's a a lot of design you know with the with Byron I worked closely Byron Jason and also to is you know this is someone that's very powerful so you also want to convey his power through his skills that he's putting down so like a little windy effects yeah no no little cloud puffs and yeah yeah none of that but also too is like you know he's he's also kind of the design was that he's contained within this armor right so there's a there's an essence that you know it's a lot more powerful but he's just kind of contained and holding it back it's it still reigned in a little bit yeah still reigned in yeah yeah so I was a can't you have an example of like a one of his big skills that you had to Telegraph well one of the things that we've heard that really early was the growing on decal that was the but so the one that basically the decal grew out and then there was a larger I think it was uh that was which one was that that was the one with the wind yeah yeah was that then also the harvest - that was another one where basically a portal opens up and dooms hand and arm comes pulling you yeah and that was actually something that was pulled in from Guild Wars one where you know when someone's banished someone's banding guild was one doom comes out and you know sites him down or whatever it and that's kind of what inspired okay so banned which I had also forgotten about but I was thinking when you said vanished there was the UM is that the Shiro fight where somebody was somebody was banished it was like always me in every group which is why I was like oh that yeah the doom banning in Guild Wars one was and it was such a hit like everybody okay probably not everybody enjoyed it but the spectators quite enjoyed it so a callback got banned on purpose just that just that just feels like a first-person it's probably true though well what were some of the best parts of working on this for you guys I don't I mean for me like it was getting everything organized then sort of like telling the story of doom and like working with you know Sam and cot and and Byron to tell the story of doom and what's going on in that encounter but then also trying to give our little section of the underworld some life yeah you know it's not the entire underworld it's only a section it's just the ice waste on if you're familiar with Guild Wars one there's some like seven areas and we just that's a huge map and we didn't have really the story to tell we wanted to tell dooms story which is only in the ice waste and so that's why you're there but it was really interesting for us to take you know what what was the map like in Guild Wars 1 and how can we retool it and there's some interesting Laura that we ended up running with which is you know the the underworld is part of the mist and the mist is sort of ever-changing and and so it allowed us to insinuate that the underworld is sort of fluctuating and morphing and altering depending on like what the needs are so that allowed us a lot of bandwidth I guess you could say to do whatever we wanted with the ice waste and so we chose to make it a lot more like like ravines and and just deep drops and really high cliffs and precarious sort of nature of just like spiky ice environment but yeah like just coming up with all that stuff and finding ways to make it seem purposeful because it's not natural right was was kind of fun and interesting and then getting the the flow and and also you know experimenting with like the statue of ents and how that works inside of a raid and kind of breaking from our traditional or like deviating I guess from our traditional very linear path of like you know boss event boss event I guess it's sort of still is that but at least in this set up you can choose three different mini events and do them in any order and in the configuration having a little more choice about how you do that is yeah and they're all very different and so you have to I think there's just a little bit of something in there for everyone which was really fun to explore yeah okay so Sam I feel like you had so much fun with the concept art of doing if we can take another peek at that when you sent me that we I like there were people crowded around my computer and we were all looking at that um I do that to all my concept [Laughter] yeah I had an idea for one of his attacks being like a soul bursts that came from his chest and it was just like beamed down at the players and destroy them and this chest could like open up like a bunch of like fingers or ribs its opening up like that that's horrifying and fantastic thoughts and he would say those lines that I put there in the concept yeah and also I kind of like concept and how the players would react to that I really do like that so that is it was this like your template for effects on it okay big green thing with actually it was pretty fun if we if we couldn't do it if we wanted to do it we could do it but there's obviously based on the mechanics based on the attacks you know we didn't go that route yeah you actually yeah it floats up yeah so yeah he's still kind of set those lines though yeah I was hoping for if it wasn't for your pesky kids yeah well thank you guys very very much for your time and especially for the concept art cuz that was kind of a thing Beauty all right and thank you guys for spending some time with us this afternoon I will let you guys get back to work as always and thank you guys we'll see you on the next Gil jet