Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal/Archive 24

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Tango icons

Due to its length, some of this conversation has been archived - see Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal/Archive 23#Tango icons.

Profession icon templates

Basic concept as follows.

1. Created Template:Profession icon sizes - a new equivalent non-tango template to Template:Tango icon sizes.

2. Created Template:Profession icon sizes/documentation - to make the documentation easy.

3. Plan to replace each of the profession shorthand templates (such as Template:Guardian) with:

{{Profession icon sizes|Guardian|{{{1}}}}}<noinclude>
{{Profession icon sizes/documentation|Guardian}}
</noinclude>

i.e. I'm going to hide the "big" shorthands and the usage I'll display either includes tango in the size keyword or not.

4. Continue to route most templates through Template:Profession. We could alternatively bake all of this code into the "profession icon" template. -Chieftain Alex 21:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay the individual templates are updated. I've also amended Template:Related traits filter/Template:Related skills filter to use the new icons. If you see any tango icons in the mainspace (other than common/some), either fix the template directly or post about it here and we can fix it together.

Nice job everyone. -Chieftain Alex

17:32, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Oh and this is obvious, but if anyone has any feedback on individual icons, feel free to voice it - we can still tweak them. -Chieftain Alex

18:12, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

The contrast on the revenant, renegade and vindicator icons is pretty low in my opinion. ~Sime 00:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

As Sime said the contrast is pretty low (especially for the revenant icons), the black borders and the shaded black backgrounds make it hard to recognize the according profession/elite specialization at first glance.

As noone has posted a direct comparision, here are the available icons (unfortunately bladesworn, mechanist, untamed are only available in 200px):

Old

New

Based on this comparison for me the new icons just look incredible dull while the colours of the old icons are much more lively, especially in combination with skill or trait icons (e.g. skill and trait lists on Might). --Tolkyria (talk) 09:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Edit: The wiki is designed for 20px icons, then in my opinion we should use icons that have an effective width/heigh of 20px (whatever dimension is applicable for the specific icon). Taking a look at the current icon sizes (in the right column) there are quite some differences in the size. First, the sizes I figured out (hopefully I got all of them correctly) together with the old icons as size comparison (in the left column) and second, afterwards, some observations.

Elementalist		Mesmer		Necromancer		Engineer		Ranger		Thief		Guardian		Revenant		Warrior

15x20	13x19	20x17	19x16	17x20	15x17	16x19	15x18	19x19	17x18	20x20	17x16	20x19	15x17	20x19	20x20	20x20	20x16

20x20	18x17	20x20	20x18	16x20	18x20	20x20	18x18	20x20	19x18	20x18	19x18	20x20	16x18	20x20	20x20	18x20	18x20

13x20	14x18	20x20	17x18	20x20	18x18	20x17	18x17	20x20	16x18	19x15	20x16	19x20	17x18	16x20	14x18	16x20	18x20

19x20	19x19	20x20	18x17	14x20	14x19		19x18		20x18	20x19	18x17	20x18	17x17	18x20	18x18		20x17

Second, some observations:

All warrior icons perfectly use the given 20px.
All guardian icons are way too small for me, using around 17px/18px at most, making them look very small especially compared to the old icons.
Core necromancer and core thief icon are also kinda small, compare to reaper or daredevil/deadeye which are using their available width/height.

Conclusion: In general some of the icons could be enlarged to better use the given 20 pixels, there's no need to for a 3px border in the larger dimension (e.g. in a 15x17 icon). In my opinion we should exploit the available 20 pixel as much as possible. --Tolkyria (talk) 16:18, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

Ah this is where this conversation was happening - thought it might be here. If I may chime in with my opinion, I actually think the new icons look more consistent with the general visual style of the game. "Tango" icons as a whole kind of harken back to a previous internet era and I think nowadays they read a bit dated. I also think it is pretty apparent that these tango icons have been made by several different artists, which is not meant to be a dig at any particular person but rather a comment that the tango icons don't look particularly cohesive as a collection.

I want to make it very clear that I like the new icons, and I think they go well with the general aesthetic design of both the game and the wiki. My only real gripe with the new icons is that some of them have low visual clarity, mostly stemming from contrast issues. The Scrapper icon could be fixed by just going over the icon with some additional black lines, but the Revenant icons need a lighter color to avoid looking like a blob. I am weakly negative about the rounding out of the sharp tips on icons like Virtuoso, Druid, Renegade, and Catalyst (why do their points get rounded out while Elementalist's doesn't?) but that is a really minor nitpick and doesn't substantially detract from the design. Aqua_[talk] 22:29, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Will those new icons ever get improved? After one week I'm still having problems to recognize them properly, too dark, too small, remarkable details are not fetched out. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:50, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

The new icons don't really 'fit' in the specialization grid. Something bigger should be made available. They also disappear in the mobile version when you scroll past the table, and don't come back without a refresh.

Omitting them from each elite specialization page is not the solution either. The profession icon is more recognizable/more personal to me than the trait icon because my bladesworn is not a giant male norn, but a female sylvari. The gallery doesn't meet this need. This 'identifier' of the profession should be top, (almost) first and foremost. HOT specs currently have nothing to show their profession icon. P.S. I'm on board with all the new icons, except Virtuoso. Turbo404 (talk) 15:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Some clarification: EoD added in-game specialization descriptions and in the process of adding those I also slightly restructure the elite specialization pages, for example see this edit. My changes, especially the removal of the tango icon, were based on a bunch of edits which happened in September 2021. They followed this discussion which resulted in that non-in-game-icons should not be placed in the intro at the start of the text.

Indeed, another set of the new icons with a size of e.g 40px would be handy as it would ensure consistent icon usage across the wiki (very few but still some pages would benefit from larger profession/elite specialization icons). --Tolkyria (talk) 16:03, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Agree with both slightly editing the new icons to make the most of the available 20 px, and making bigger versions of them as they would look good at the start of profession articles and the specialization article. Especially because the HoT elite specs don't have a "promotional icon" we can put in the gallery. Warming Hearth (talk) 16:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Just a small bump, I hope making bigger versions of these icons is not forgotten because although they are great they are too small to be used everywhere. ~Sime 15:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I like how Sime always adds diplomatically formulated bumps,... but wow this one was added two month ago with no response in the meantime, so...

This section says at the beginning: "Oh and this is obvious, but if anyone has any feedback on individual icons, feel free to voice it - we can still tweak them."

Right now we have:

Two editors asking to improve the revenant icons:
- "The contrast on the revenant, renegade and vindicator icons is pretty low in my opinion"
- "the Revenant icons need a lighter color to avoid looking like a blob"
Three editors asking for another set of larger icons:
- "The new icons don't really 'fit' in the specialization grid. Something bigger should be made available."
- "making bigger versions of them as they would look good at the start of profession articles and the specialization article"
- "I hope making bigger versions of these icons is not forgotten because although they are great they are too small to be used everywhere"

But still there haven't been a single response nor a single adjustment from those who have been so actively participating in the icon change. Time to deliver! --Tolkyria (talk) 08:25, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I've stretched the vindicator icon and removed several shadows to make it easier to read/identify. No strong feelings about its colour.

With 20 pixels, things like shadows, or the moon of the druid icon, or gaps in the tempest icons, get too stretched/diluted and there's simply no way to show those details faithfully. Some small, almost imperceptible variations from the official icon are inevitable as details blend together.

That's why I proposed increasing the size of these icons, but I don't think anyone voiced their thoughts about this proposal.

The other icons all seem fine to me, they are easily identifiable, they just need to be brought up to 20x20.

Since there has been no other negative feedback about these icons, it does seem we can move forward with making bigger icons. What size do we need? 50x50? Warming Hearth (talk) 16:03, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Recharge and activation icons

Okay, now to a different, but similar topic. Should we replace , , , and with their ingame versions? , , etc. Sunlion (talk) 21:23, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I like it! I think they're still pretty readable and it's nice to use the in-game style where possible. Would be good to post some of the comparisons you made for the Discord here :) Heillos (talk) 21:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree. It's the official in-game icon, and that icon (or at least a very similar one) is widely used in external sites like Snowcrows or Metabattle. The only downside is that it looks a bit out of place with the wiki light theme, since in-game that icon is used with a dark background, but that's just getting used to it. Warming Hearth (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I've replaced the activation and recharge icons in my sandbox to see what it would look like. I don't think the game has a similar icon for ammunition skill

, so we'd have to make one. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 08:31, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The ammunition icon is pointless since the text which is right below it already reads "maximum count: 3". Remove the ammunition icon entirely?

I still think the ingame icons look nasty. -Chieftain Alex

09:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we can remove the ammunition icon because the game still has some inconsistencies with the maximum count skill fact. For example, Smoldering Arrow and Instinctive Engage don't have it. Deadeye's stolen skills have it but you only get one charge unless you have Improvisation traited.

I agree the ingame icons are pretty ugly. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 10:22, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Crafting profession articles

The articles about the crafting professions (Armorsmith, Artificer, etc.) seem to take a while to load, are a bit bloated with recipes that hinder its readability, and some sections seemed to fit better during the first years after the release of the game, such as "Unique armor/weapons". I think it would be best if more sections could be tucked in their own subpages (such as Armorsmith/Novice recipes, Artificer/Potions, etc.) and just linked towards in the main article. Short sections such as "Back items" could stay for the time being. It might be a bit annoying navigating through so many subpages, but I think it's detrimental having such long loading times for a page that gets linked in every other item and recipe article. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas to further improve the article please feel free to share them. Myriada (talk) 14:08, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

While we should strive to have as much as info in one place as possible, I agree due to the load times + it is not like there isn't a precedent already with the pages you linked. On the same note, the Research Note page should be reduced as well since it has one of the longest load times on the wiki I think + Djemba confirmed on discord it is hitting the query limit. ~Sime 16:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Research Note/Salvage research will eventually be nearly as big as the crafting disciplines themselves, so I second the notion of splitting it. It could be argued that reduces the utility of comparing for the cheapest Notes, but I don't think it does very good at that in it's current incarnation either. Maybe something like Portable Composter/Salvage research for each discipline would help find breakpoints in the quantity of Notes? Adeira Tasharo (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

P.S. If we can standardize it, maybe we could add to item pages an estimates number of Notes, akin to how food lists the Extracts of Nourishment? Adeira Tasharo (talk) 22:42, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and trimmed down the articles, so now the loading times should be much shorter. For now the enhancement and back item sections were not that long to move onto a different section, but if that changes in the future or we want to further decrease the loading time, that can always be done. Myriada (talk) 09:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion to change how locations are organized

It's been noticed that certain gathering node locations don't appear when Template:Gathering node list is used. An example is the auto-generated list Rare Fish#Locations - the list doesn't include Eastern Wilds. I believe this is due to the top level location being "unset" in the "Located in tree" property for Eastern Wilds (currently appears as "Unset;Shing Jea Island;Seitung Province"). This is due to a mixture of mechanical zones being located within map only "lore" regions which don't have properties set.

Here's a spreadsheet with a full list of how our zones/cities/raids are noted on the wiki (link to spreadsheet).

I'd like to propose something radical, and move the wiki away from the API nomenclature for "continents" being the top level thing as this feels excessively confusing.

World (e.g. Tyria (world), or The Mists) -- same as the API continent/1. I'd actually move this page to [[Tyria]], and move the current continent Tyria article to [[Tyria (continent)]]
- Region -- pretty much as they appear the moment, except using Cantha for all EOD zones per the API.
  - Zone
    - Area

i.e. the following changes:

Rename the type = "continent" option in the infobox to "world" as the type. Adjust the property accordingly.
Move "Tyria" to "Tyria (continent)".
Move "Tyria (world)" to "Tyria".
Change the current "continent" articles "Tyria (continent)" to be "lore only" and remove its infobox).
1 Change the current "continent" article "Elona" to be "lore only" and remove its infobox).
1 Amend the "Cantha" page to be a region within "Tyria" (world).
Due to swapping the content of the top level page, without making any changes we're making regions directly fall under the "world" type, without modifying any of the region pages.
1 Change the "Crystal Desert" (region) to be within "Tyria" (world)
1 Amend the "Elona" page to be a lore continent.
1 Amend the previous lore regions in cantha and remove their infoboxes
1 Change all four of the EoD zones to be within "Cantha" (region).

Ultimately this will end up printing the Has location tree property as "Tyria;Cantha;Seitung Province" for example. -Chieftain Alex 17:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Summarizing a quick talk on discord with some copy-paste:

I wouldn't base myself too much on the API I think since I feel like I remember it doing some really wild associations for some maps. But having Tyria -> (Tyria, Crystal Desert, Cantha stuff) -> (individual maps) seems the most straightforward.

I could see those lore regions being in a map/continent infobox as a "contains, or is a part of X", but that would be it and obviously whatever relevant text on the page itself.

It makes sense to have lore regions separate as "lore" since IRL it's kind of that way as well. A province is within a country, within a continent, within a world and sometimes you have "lore regions" that span across countries and provinces like the fertile crescent in Africa -Darqam 19:37, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

In agreement with Darqam here, I think that describes how most users "think of" the in-game world, thus would make the most sense as the way we represent it on the wiki. Diruuo (talk) 19:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

This sounds needlessly complicated. If you're going to do #7 and #10, then there is really no need to do anything else. You're proposing a lot more work than needed. That said, IF they were renamed, I'd suggest Thryia and Central Tyria, personally. Konig (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

That would take care of Elona and Cantha, certainly, but the HoT maps are also considered part of the continent of Tyria, and so is the region known as Central Tyria which is the maps unlocked by the core game. So I think the change is needed. Kaele Forester (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

From my understanding of Alex's post, the issue isn't that "maps are considered part of the continent of Tyria" but that "some maps are not showing up due to unset parameters in the chain", and suggesting reshaping the entire structure for the issue that seems to be restricted to just Canthan maps because people put the lore regions in place. This is an issue restricted only to the EoD maps by my understanding, because PoF and S4 maps already list Crystal Desert as their region, and there is no unset parameter within the chain. So simply changing Seitung Province to being in region Cantha, like how Domain of Kourna is set to being in region Crystal Desert, fixes the issue that's actually at hand. Konig (talk) 22:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Konig, so that does fix the template display issue. However now we've got the data stored like this;

Tyria (continent) > Ascalon > Iron Marches
Elona (continent) > Crystal Desert > Fahranur, the First City
Tyria (world) > Cantha (continent) > Seitung Province

I think my proposal still stands in a way; the three above aren't consistently following "world > region > zone". -Chieftain Alex

04:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Can just change references to Elona and Tyria (continent) to Tyria (world) then, without any actual need to move articles. Doing so would make #1-4 unnecessary and be less work than reshaping several articles from the ground up. #5 and #8 are basically done anyways (just minor cleanup needed), #9 is half-done from the get go too. Konig (talk) 12:01, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Weren't Cantha's regions added (or at least the labels made visible) retroactively (as in after release)? Because if so maybe they'll make some of them mechanical regions for cases where that would make sense (i.e. in case there're more maps in the next Living World Season, so it'd be more than one map per region (though nothing wrong with only one map per region either); not counting the guild hall) later on as well; so that it would only be Cantha the continent anymore and not also a (mechanical) region?

Also, while now the template issue may be resolved, the maps are now missing from the list on map completion/table again. Nightsky (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

They were actually all still missing from the Map completion table except Echovald Forest prior to Konig's edit anyway. -Chieftain Alex

05:29, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Sticking Cantha as within Tyria has fixed Map completion/table. -Chieftain Alex

15:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

List of enemies by zones

How can we see a list of enemies within each zone? -- Shena'Fu (talk) 01:24, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at each of the area pages. We don't structure the enemy pages in such a way as to pull this information out automatically. -Chieftain Alex

10:03, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

You shouldn't pull from the enemy page. You could pull from the pages of the sub-areas inside that zone. Collate the data from all areas in the zone. Ideally into a table that can be sorted by enemy type or by area.

If necessary, create a new subpage under the zone's main page, and linked from the main page. -- Shena'Fu (talk) 04:15, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Area pages do not support this either, and it would be even more complicated to make them do so. DJemba (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

10th Anniversary & Steam Release

Hi guys, just dropping a note here that I've restored two bits of the original game wiki theme (logo file with red shadows, and red triangular header file) for the 10th Anniversary celebrations.

These changes won't be visible if you're using the vector dark mode theme (the original image contains white highlights which I haven't got the time to remaster). Additionally retention of the EOD background images on the main page is intentional (somehow I didn't think Logan, Eir and Zojja were relevant anymore). -Chieftain Alex 12:07, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Normal theme for EOD now restored. -Chieftain Alex

23:38, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

I do not know, there is still some stuff coming so I would personally keep it a bit longer imho. ~Sime 23:39, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed with Sime that it'd probably be a good idea to keep for a bit longer. Maybe until the 10th of September? Sunlion (talk) 23:50, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Eh, I think the EoD theme looks much better. Warming Hearth (talk) 10:15, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Graphical bug in coin values

On the page Map bonus reward/profit the coin icons (gold, silver, copper) appear too large compared to the text, at least on my screen. If I recall correctly, this didn't use to be so. Maybe it has to do with the site theme modifications. The icons are 32x32 pixels and are usually scaled to 20x20 pixels in price information tables. The tables on the page are generated with Widget:Map_bonus_rewards/script.js. The problem could be fixed by adding class="gw2-tpprice" to elements that contain coin images. Kumiponi (talk) 11:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

good spot, Sunlion switched the icon files a few weeks ago and we missed this template as part of the update. -Chieftain Alex

16:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ledes or introductions for crafting items

There has recently been some discussion in the wiki, Reddit, and Discord, about a new project for writing ledes for crafting items, with already some work being done with cloth crafting materials. Since there have been disagreements about how to proceed, and considering the number of articles that would be changed, I'm opening a discussion here in the community portal where we can all participate. I'll start:

I like having introductions. Explaining what the item is (although that's already shown VERY clearly in the infobox) and their most common use, such as refining it into a higher quality item.

What I absolutely oppose is listing all of that item's uses there in the introduction. And the Gossamer Scrap page was a good example of why that's a terrible idea.

Bloating the introduction by saying the item can be used to craft a subitem required for a subcollection that rewards a gift used to craft yet another gift that is used to craft a legendary weapon absolutely defeats the point of having an introduction. It goes against what an introduction should be.

Still using Gossamer Scraps as an example, even if you truly believed that listing all its 3 uses in the introduction is the way to go, what would you do when you have to write an introduction for Bolt of Gossamer, which has several dozens uses. You simply cannot list all its uses in the introduction, and you would then have 2 pages in the same category —crafting materials— which follow a different structure and present the information in different ways. This goes against the principles of the wiki of presenting the information in a consistent and predictable manner.

I am also not too thrilled about listing the required crafting level for that item. First of all, that information is already present in the infobox. And second, some crafting materials are used in recipes with different crafting level requirements, so it would be bloating to list all the level requirements. For example, Elder Wood Plank is used in recipes ranging from level 225 to 500.

Adding introductions can be a great change, so long as the introduction does its job properly and doesn't become a copy-paste or rewriting of ALL the information in the article. Warming Hearth (talk) 10:35, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

As I've shared on the discord I see value in having "blurbs" or intros (ledes) to pages for the purposes of functional tooltips, how complex or not that tooltip is can't possibly be generalized, as there's far too many different items to be able to generalize. That said, I feel like we should strive to have all tooltips be functional and to the point to the best of our ability. The example here with Gossamer scrap is too long-winded and unwieldy for such purposes. I've further expanded on this in discord with screenshots, so if needed can view there in the #wiki-editing-help channel Diruuo (talk) 13:50, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Catching up on a week of wiki edits and discussions - I jumped right in and edited the cloth crafting materials without seeing this discussion. Sorry. I shortened the intros - to a for me sensible lenght. I think of these intros/ledes in terms of the link popup previews. One or two sentences to describe the subject in general. As such I reduced the intros to "what is it", "most regular craft" (with craft disciplines - debateable; could be removed) and "most common acquisition". —Kvothe (talk) 18:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

I apologize for adding my thoughts this late. I think every article should have a lede (or a lead paragraph) introducing what it is, absolutely every single one. Not only because the preview is otherwise broken, but also because it does help with quickly explaining what the item/page/whatever is about (and as an added bonus, it helps with Google searches, though we don't really care about that). On the other hand, I do not think that the lede should be longer than a sentence or two, it should just summarize what the page is about and the most important points. ~Sime 20:44, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I second Sime's opinion. You need a short and snappy intro so the reader can quickly discern what a page is about. From my experience with writing documentation, I stick to a simple rule: the longer a text, the smaller the chance someone is going to read or understand it. ~ Sanna

09:46, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Template errors

Hi, not sure if this is known already or not but from looking at some pages like Minotaur/Skale/Raptor (same goes for pages about organizations like Inquest) and so on, the template used for categories such as Types and Related Achievements appear to be broken and don't display the intended information. --Looopy (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Even after purging the page(s)? They seem fine after a purge for me. Inculpatus cedo (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Take a look at Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Reporting wiki bugs; it's either goig to be: (A) SMW properties not set correctly on some of the other pages leading to auto-population lists being empty on the category overview pages, or (B) the page doesn't render the SMW bits correctly at all - both of these are known bugs! -Chieftain Alex

21:09, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the purge feature until now (and that it affected things like that). It seems fixed after using it, thanks for the information. --Looopy (talk) 21:18, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) For the formal record, I've created a new abuse filter Special:AbuseFilter/36 - visible to the general public, which is going to prevent all template and property edits. The intention is to prevent template/property edits invalidating the existing cache of a large numbers of pages (thereby preserving working content in most instances and maximising availability to regular users/readers). My suggestion is for this to last as long as it takes to resolve the bugs causing page rendering faults, however lets review in a week's time. I know this sucks, but this has been discussed + endorsed by the sysop team.

I have added a message that appears at the top of template and property pages, as well as a specific notice that appears when the edit is disallowed. -Chieftain Alex 19:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

(that was a fast 12 days)

We're still getting the same problems, but I think with the reduction in template edits I'm "feeling" an anecdotal reduction in encountering blatantly broken pages. I'm proposing to leave this for another week, but idk if ArenaNet will find a solution .-Chieftain Alex

19:45, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Template namespace has been out of action for 3 weeks now - shall we revise the rule to target specific high-traffic templates, or perhaps templates with any of the following in the title?

" infobox"
" nav"
" icon"
" table"
" table header"
" table row"
"achievement list"
"event"
"recipe"

Would appreciate thoughts. -Chieftain Alex

16:22, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

For those templates we open up for editing, we'll want our editors to take some extra care when it comes to purging the knock-on effects. For example, this edit of mine instantly broke the three pages which transclude it. Some effects may be delayed due to queuing, but it wouldn't hurt to go through the pages a few minutes after a template edit. Greener (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Opening up some of the templates to editing again'd be great.

A rough search for occurences (Using a regex of [{]{2}([^{|}:]+)[{|}:]. (So won't count, among other things, templates included via templates and templates used as #ask template result format.)) through ~July 15, 2022 namespace 0 data yields the following 75 templates that which are each used on 1% or over of the current total pages (102,637):

Template	Pages	Pages*100/102637 rounded to 2 places	Usages
Item infobox	23787	23.18%	23787
NPC infobox	17186	16.74%	17186
Contained in	13747	13.39%	13787
Sold by	10444	10.18%	10450
Otheruses	9873	9.62%	9880
Skill fact	9349	9.11%	72510
Recipe	8533	8.31%	9307
Dialogue icon	8183	7.97%	91178
Skin infobox	7481	7.29%	7481
Skin list	7477	7.28%	7477
Event	7337	7.15%	19937
Weapon infobox	6239	6.08%	6239
Skill infobox	6221	6.06%	6221
Section-stub	6143	5.99%	9884
Item icon	5757	5.61%	90624
Object infobox	5260	5.12%	5260
Collection nav	5104	4.97%	5106
Redirect	5005	4.88%	5007
Armor infobox	4783	4.66%	4783
Location infobox	4038	3.93%	4038
Teaches recipe	4020	3.92%	4020
Effect infobox	3855	3.76%	3855
STDT	3845	3.75%	7151
Event infobox	3634	3.54%	3634
Version history table row	3633	3.54%	16119
Version history table header	3632	3.54%	3632
Version history	3546	3.45%	3546
Effect	3522	3.43%	7747
Contains	3464	3.38%	41825
Creature nav	3089	3.01%	3089
Recipe list	3065	2.99%	3065
Achievement	2956	2.88%	5399
Event rewards	2946	2.87%	2999
Flavor	2678	2.61%	4099
Event bar	2670	2.6%	3907
Prefix selection	2601	2.53%	2737
During	2413	2.35%	4023
Stolen skill	2241	2.18%	6595
Stub	2232	2.17%	2264
Drops table header	2156	2.1%	2159
Drops table row	2123	2.07%	8365
Skill infobox/historical	2066	2.01%	9994
Rarity	1800	1.75%	6443
Related traits	1703	1.66%	1744
Defiance	1687	1.64%	1752
Sic	1640	1.6%	2253
Vendor query table	1602	1.56%	1910
Gathered from	1540	1.5%	1545
Heart	1532	1.49%	2946
Quotation	1521	1.48%	1807
PvP recipe	1514	1.48%	1580
Bug	1507	1.47%	1564
Environmental skill table header	1455	1.42%	1721
Environmental skill table row	1455	1.42%	5072
Map objective	1397	1.36%	3881
Equipment variant table header	1350	1.32%	1425
Equipment variant table row	1349	1.31%	4625
Trait infobox	1322	1.29%	1322
Trinket infobox	1314	1.28%	1314
Trait infobox/historical	1287	1.25%	4995
Trait icon	1283	1.25%	4748
Anomaly	1279	1.25%	1290
Skill icon	1264	1.23%	6180
Event boss	1259	1.23%	1838
Vendor table header	1244	1.21%	1896
Vendor table row	1243	1.21%	18511
Achievement box	1238	1.21%	1946
Coin	1215	1.18%	13509
Vendor	1193	1.16%	4412
Gathering node	1139	1.11%	5043
Achievement list	1133	1.1%	1159
Area events	1130	1.1%	1130
Waypoint	1107	1.08%	3667
Rewarded by	1033	1.01%	1034
Recipe list by discipline	1027	1.0%	1027

Rows in the above table are shown in red when the template name, as shown in the table, contains one of the terms listed above.

Rows in the above table are shown in orange when the template name, as shown in the table but with all lower case letters, contains one of the terms listed above.

I.e. red rows will match in either case and orange ones only when the matching performed by the AbuseFilter's case insensitive.

Y'all may want to consider to include the templates that which are not highlighted in the table above, or parts thereof, in such a revisement as well. Nightsky (talk) 19:39, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't see the point in relaxing the restrictions yet. If there is a necessary edit to be made, an admin can do it :P --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 21:03, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah that's exactly why I want to slightly relax the restriction. For info, there were only 14 edits attempted in spite of the big red hand message. I've made some tweaks, visible at the filter link I shared above. Most high traffic templates are still locked. -Chieftain Alex

17:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just a quick update about the SMW issue that the wikis have been having since the last update. We've been working with external support and we think that we've nailed down the culprit to a few components of the wiki stack. We're now working on validating the theory and then testing ways to fix that. I do not know how quickly we'll be able to implement and test a fix, but I will update you as soon as we know. --Stephane Lo Presti talk 21:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

That's good news Stephane, thank you for the update. -Chieftain Alex

17:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Fwiw I've disabled the filters today. Please don't go absolutely crazy with the edits but hopefully nothing should break due to the patch applied earlier in the week. -Chieftain Alex 18:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Redirect categorization

Template:Redirect is used to categorize redirects. There seems to be one type that's not accounted for: redirects to official terms that aren't significant enough to warrant their own articles and hence appear as subsections of other pages. For example, Altar Brook Lair redirects to Guild Trek#Altar Brook Lair. Note that redirects to subsections could fall into the existing redirect categories so they probably shouldn't be all lumped together. Currently, some of the subsection redirects are in the "common term" category, despite not properly fitting its description. Altar Brook Lair is not a commonly used variant or alternate name for anything, but it clearly shouldn't have its own page. I can see four options.

Create a new category for these and add it to the template (once the namespace is editable again).
Put them into the parent category, [[Category:Redirects]]. This can be achieved by leaving out the template parameter (which the documentation wrongly states is required).
Put them into [[Category:Common term redirects]] and broaden its description.
Stop categorizing redirects altogether if it's not a good idea to begin with.

Kumiponi (talk) 20:19, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Dropped by issue

Before I will start talking about the issue first I would like to say what that template is. For those who dont know. Template dropped by pulls information from the enemy page and showing it on the item page. The issue is that there are a lot of regional/map things (items, currencies ect.) that do not drop strightly from these enemies but from any enemy inside that specific map or a region. The best example would be Eye of Kormir that has a chance to drop from any enemy in Crystal Oasis or Unbound Magic . The item page itself doesnt even use the second half of this template to show specific enemies. Insted there is one small sentence telling where it can drop. I've went over these items months ago and deleted them from all the enemy pages but sooner or later editors started to add them back again. To not been forced to manualy clean it every month there were few ideas how to solve this problem. First was to create a Project. Sadly editors would first need to know about this project to not add these items again. Second option was to update this Drops table row template to exclude these items and currencies. Exclude as having just a red warning message apear insted of the items themselfs. Telling the editor that these shouldnt be added or having a link to a page where we would have the explanation writen down. I made a small list of these items and currencies at User:DiegoDeLaHouska/sandbox1 but there might be some items be missing . If you can think of any please add them into the list. Please let us know your oppinion how this issue can be best handled and why you think its the best way. Thank you for your time reading it and for your answers --DiegoDeLaHouska (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I do not think a templated solution is the way to go, but at least we could add the list of drops not-to-be-added to the NPC formatting page. ~Sime 01:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

The whole firebrand rework with new variable page count costs in tomes

How is this going to be implemented on wiki? I am not sure where to put the tomes' page information and such so I haven't touched any of the following

- Justice
  - Chapter 1: 1 page, no cooldown
  - Chapter 2: 1 page, 8 seconds
  - Chapter 3: (PvE) 1 page, 10 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 15 seconds
  - Chapter 4: 2 pages, 15 seconds
  - Epilogue: 2 pages, 20 seconds
- Resolve
  - Chapter 1: 1 page, no cooldown
  - Chapter 2: (PvE) 1 page, 4 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 1 page, 8 seconds
  - Chapter 3: 1 page, 8 seconds
  - Chapter 4: (PvE) 2 pages, 10 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 15 seconds
  - Epilogue: (PvE) 2 pages, 20 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 3 pages, 25 seconds
- Courage
  - Chapter 1: 1 page, no cooldown
  - Chapter 2: (PvE) 1 page, 4 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 8 seconds
  - Chapter 3: (PvE) 2 pages, 15 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 20 seconds
  - Chapter 4: 2 pages, 20 seconds
  - Epilogue: 3 pages, 25 seconds

--Life Infusion «T» 03:23, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps we can do something similar to the thief skills. We can add a pages parameter (and pages wvw and pages pvp) to the infobox which will show the FB pages diamond icon like it does for initiative

(not sure if the wiki has the icon already) --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 04:43, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Apparently ingame Arenanet hasn't done anything with respect to page cost indicators besides the tooltip text. Maybe my avoidance of editing those pages is unfounded although the API link for them doesn't have anything. --Life Infusion «T» 04:45, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh, then just adding the page cost to the skill facts is probably fine. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Two remarks:

The skill fact "Page Cost" has the icon File:Maximum Count.png. In order to avoid confusions with the maximum count skill fact as well as not torturing the wiki with a large scale template edit right now I simply just added the "icon" parameter, namely: {{skill fact|Page Cost|1|icon=Maximum Count.png}}. Of course later on we can add the "page cost" skill fact to automatically take the correct icon.
Sure, why not, we could definitely add the page cost in the infobox statistics bar (recharge, activation, etc...). We could extract the icon from File:1636724.png.

--Tolkyria (talk) 19:08, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Mystic Clover acquisition in crafting tables

Ever since End of Dragons, Mystic Clovers can now be purchased for strike and raid currency, however this is not mentioned under the acquisition cell in the crafting table for every page that uses it. I assume this would be easy to add with a bot edit, but I'm asking here whenever it's actually worth it? At this point there's a fair amount of different ways to acquire clovers, which causes the table to get a bit bloated, and there's no telling what future methods anet might add, so personally I'm in favor of just removing it entirely (and anyone who needs the information can just look at the acquisition section on the clover page). --ItVictor (talk) 04:26, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm not convinced we should remove it entirely. Mentioning raids and strikes is a single additional line and I doubt Anet's going to add many more acquisition methods. Mystic clovers are supposed to be hard to get. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 11:44, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Do you mean the tables breaking down the costs of legendary equipment? I mean there are also Reward Tracks, logins and achievements not accounted for, I think it's fine leaving them as they currently are showing the cost on the Mystic Forge because it's the most straightforward way to pump out Mystic Clovers without additional time costs. Trying to condense the entire Mystic Clover acquisition section into a table sounds counterproductive in my opinion. Myriada (talk) 12:04, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

My point was that it seems strange to me to only mention one (or a few) of the acquisition methods (crafting, vendors), they might might not be the most straightforward methods for all players for acquiring clovers. If we only have the crafting listed, people would assume that's the only way to get clovers, which is why I think it should be all or nothing as far as acquisition goes. --ItVictor (talk) 22:57, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Giving a full breakdown seems a bit much. I would suggest instead:

{{main|Mystic Clover#Acquisition}}

Although it sounds a bit redundant. Alternatively "Additional sources are described in detail at Mystic Clover#Acquisition"? Myriada (talk) 17:11, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Better showing recharge for skills that don't use a "normal" recharge mechanic in tables

Currently on pages like Dagger and List of Mesmer skills it's not clear that the "recharge" column is actually something else when referring to skills that have a different recharge mechanic. I suggest either splitting the tables into different ones that focus solely on the professions/skills that utilize recharge differently or editing the templates to allow directly showing the icons (like the initiative diamond) in the recharge column in the rows where the skill doesn't clearly match. This primarily affects thief weapon skills (uses initiative instead), and skills with an ammunition mechanic, since it's not clear if the recharge is referring to the recharge between uses of the skill or the recharge of the skill itself. --ItVictor (talk) 04:59, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I've edited the templates to show the initiative icon next to the initiative value, and also to show the count recharge instead of the activation recharge. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 12:46, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

You want a clean and proper recharge column representation? Well, then in my opinion currently we are pretty far away from it with the totally overloaded recharge column.

Currently, we have:

Show recharge, unless
the skill has ammunition count set in infobox, then query for count recharge and show it, unless
the skill has initiative, then show initiative with icon.

I think that's not even close to the requested clarification and simplification of the recharge column.

So, I would suggest:

Remove the inititative cost from the recharge column.
- Solution A: Alternate between either the energy column for revenants or the initiative column for thiefs on profession-related pages, skip this column on general skill pages (for example weapon overview pages).
  - Problems: misses some crucial information on general overview pages
- Solution B: Introduce a dedicated profession mechanic column which takes energy/initiative/etc... which is always displayed.
  - Problems: might get a bit lengthy and might display redundant icons (although icons could be disabled on profession-related pages by setting the icon in the header).
Introduce a count recharge column and ammunition count column (could be also a combined column).
- Problems: there might be too many columns then, on the other side it's valuable information, furthermore we might need to reduce the width of the description column. Since the column width should match in each table (profession mechanic, slot, weapon) and profession mechanic skills doesn't really have ammunition counts, we introduce some discrepancies which I want to avoid (we once had this jumping table widths, I definitely want to keep this nicely aligned tables/columns).
- Reasons: Overloading the recharge column to show the count recharge instead of the recharge is in my opinion not the right way. While in many cases one could argue that a 0.5 recharge cooldown doesn't matter, there are in fact count recharge skills where the actual recharge matters, for example: Primordial Stance, Hammer of Wisdom, Explosive Shell, Brutal Shot or Dragon's Roar. A five or eight second cooldown is not something that should be omitted.

--Tolkyria (talk) 18:54, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

The initiative cost was already displayed in the recharge column, I simply added the icon. It was the simplest way to clarify the information without adding additional columns.

As for the count recharge, I'd argue even the 5/8sec cooldown isn't as important as the count recharge. That's what ultimately determines the recharge of the ammo (and the skill). Since most ammo skills have hardly any cooldown, I think it is preferable to display the count recharge in that column unless you want to add a new column. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 21:40, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Please think again about the basic concept of skill recharge, then it should be clear that for certain skills the skill recharge is way more important than the count recharge and therefore count recharge can't be automatically selected. Also your argumentation is the best example why we should avoid mixing these two together (in general but also here in one column) and why being precise is necessary (in whatever way, maybe by clearly splitting them in different columns). --Tolkyria (talk) 22:18, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I cleaned up the recharge column to display only the recharge value and nothing else (no count recharge, no initiative cost) and introduced an initiative column instead which can be activated with "showInitiative" on thief-only pages.

Summary of my performed edits:

Removed the count recharge query from the templates weapon skill table row format and slot skill table row format.
Introduced an initiative column for the templates weapon skill table header and profession mechanic skill table header which takes the same place as the energy column (thus only one of these can be activated at the same time).
Changed the way how the energy column width behaves (hence also the new initiative column) for weapon skill table header, slot skill table header and profession mechanic skill table header, it now substracts the width from the skill name column rather than moving the description column.
- Removed the energy column indent from trait table to match the description column width.

Possible todo's

Remove the underwater column from slot skill table header and move it as floating right icon to the skill name column (as weapon skill table row format does).
Introduce a count recharge column once we find a proper format.
Adjust the description column width, especially with "showType/showWeapon/..." interactions.

--Tolkyria (talk) 10:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

What's the correct procedure for researching missing achievement IDs?

So, I was poking at the API recently to create a tool for myself that had to do with the achievements an account has unlocked. As it's pretty well known, the API has quite a few holes with regards to achievements that people have discovered and completed but remain not whitelisted, though. By process of elimination (based on the rough placement of the ID in the overall list as well as the current and maximum objective counts returned by /account/achievements in comparison with in-game data, assuming account achievements API always returns all achievements with progress), there's a few that still aren't in the wiki that I could probably contribute.

I'm not sure what's the correct procedure for that, though. Just plopping the deductions in doesn't seem that acceptable, even though a plethora of other still-not-whitelisted IDs have been added onto various other pages (notably the 20+ of those from the Return to... categories). What's the additional requirement? Should there be a mechanism to reduce the error rate? (As far as that one comes, it's the only unknown ?/11 achievement with an ID larger than ~2000 so it seems pretty obvious for example, but yeah.) I was thinking if there's a precedent of a drop rate alike page where people could post their observations and if enough people had a match it could be added as data proper, but I'm not aware of any.

So, what to do?

Soulweaver (talk) 12:39, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm guessing that the achievement IDs for achievements not yet in /v2/achievements were added by inspecting the response of /v2/account/achievements before and after progressing/completing a single achievement in game and then looking for the only entry that has changed in the response.

That's at least how i'd add IDs; or achievement-bits for that matter. I don't know if that's how those IDs specifically were added or not. Nightsky (talk) 22:32, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Soundcloud template and widget for soundtrack page

I would like to import the fr:Modèle:SoundCloud template for use on our soundtrack pages, as I think it is a good idea since Anet have their official account with the soundtrack (and it would decrease clicking too). However, if other people agree about the usage on the English wiki, it would also require fr:Widget:SoundCloud and someone with widget editing rights would have to port that here. Usage example on the FR wiki: fr:Maclaine_Diemer#Travaux ~Sime 23:54, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Would make sense, and would decrease the amount of effort required to find specific tracks. Sunlion (talk) 23:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

This is now done. See Widget:SoundCloud and Template:SoundCloud.

Side note, the URL seems to have the following parameters hide_related=false show_comments=true show_user=true - do we want to change the values of these (particularly the comments) -Chieftain Alex

17:48, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Fabulous, thanks! (Now to check how to get the ids lol). Not sure what the parameters do, only show comments on the songs? Yeah I think that's not necessary. ~Sime 18:09, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Users will be "ArenaNet" in this instance, the comments one was where random people had at 1 second intervals posted useful comments like "whoa". Hide related probably does what it sounds like. I've now changed it to comments off. -Chieftain Alex

19:02, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Hm, I wonder if there is a way to make the template work for playlists too? Currently it supports only one track per template. Also wondered if perhaps the spotify template wouldn't be better too, since it seems there are more songs as well. ~Sime 18:00, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Currently, we have more Special:Search/insource:"soundcloud" than Special:Search/insource:"spotify" links. Also SoundCloud doesn't require an account to listen to the track if a wiki editor starts browsing the SoundCloud page itself, and in the end a wiki is all about accessability.

I added the option to set "mode=playlists", see the example on the page Template:SoundCloud. Furthermore, we could also add {{#arraymap: {{{id|}}}|,|@@@|{{#Widget:SoundCloud[..]}}|<br>}} to the template such that it would allow the input of multiple ids. --Tolkyria (talk) 19:55, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Persian/Farsi translation

→ moved from Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal

Hello all. I wanna to translate some section into Farsi/Persian. I know how to work with Wiki. Here is my wiki page with 751 edits. So I know how to edit and work with wiki, although in the wikifa we have many tools and bot for translation but I can handle this :)

Thank you so much !Ğąme Ǿver (talk) 11:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey Ğąme Ǿver, sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this. For the foreseeable future, English will be the language with which we document on this wiki's main-space. It is what we're currently equipped to vet, maintain, and moderate.

One option we can offer is one we previously suggested to User:Targal. They they wanted to help players who were more comfortable with Korean, and used their user-space to that end.

I do wish the game and the wikis extended themselves beyond their current languages, but that's a decision to be made by ArenaNet, as they are the ones paying all of the bills. Greener (talk) 20:25, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Area Locators

I've made a template that would simplify creating templates (E.g. User:Nightsky/Sandbox/3 contains code that could be used for the template for Bloodstone Fen and Edge of the Mists.) that would allow for the areas on locators to be clicked to navigate to their pages, also allowing navigation between all floors of a map when the areas differ across the floors. (Refer to the area infobox on another one of my sandboxes for how that would look/work.) My question is if this would be wanted or if the locators are prefered as they are currently?

If it'd be prefered i'd do the following (Though i'll wait at least six days from now before doing any of the below to give everyone some time to notice, see and consider this. (Note that this does not include any possible changes to the templates in my sandboxes in the meantime.)):

Create a Widget that takes a locator file as input, allows for the areas to be assigned a page name and outputs the area name to boundary definition part of the subtemplate code; perhaps with a way to assign the areas to floors and wrapped in the remainder of the subtemplate code.
Recreate the meta template that provides the functionality and simplifies the subtemplates under a yet to be determined name in the Template namespace. (I was thinking of "Template:Locators".)
Implement an #ifexists (the parser function, not the template, on the assumption that the templates would be wanted pages then) check into the "Location infobox"-template for the subtemplate name to switch between the current appearance and using the template when it exists.
Create versions of locators withouth any area highlighted for zones where the floors require doing so under a naming scheme yet to be determined (Maybe "File:<"Location infobox"-within> area outlines (<Sky/Ground/Depths/etc.>)"?). Herefor i'd be good to know if it'd be possible for these to be integrated into Project Maps; for them to be provided for future maps, if any of them should need unhighlighted floor files?
Create subtemplates under a naming scheme yet to be determined. (E.g. "Template:Locators/<"Location infobox"-within> locators"; likely without the thus repeated "locators", if the meta templates name remains as suggested above.)

Please also let me know in case there are any concerns/questions/suggestions/comments/etc. on the functionality, formating, layout, naming and or anything else about the templates. Nightsky (talk) 00:21, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Only to note it: The possible changes in the meantime are meant to be for addressing concerns, implementing suggestions and anything else raised here that'd require any edit(s).

Additionally, if no one responds at all i'll assume the above functionality/templates are not wanted and won't proceed with any of it. Nightsky (talk) 00:03, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Ah I wanted to respond earlier but forgot, sorry. I am not going to reply to the technical stuff since that's out of my league, but I definitely like what you've created and that now the sectors are clickable! Very convenient, I'd implement it unless it (somehow) breaks something. ~Sime 00:10, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I think what you've done is amazing but honestly I'm not a fan of the minimalistic locator maps to begin with. Why don't we replace the locators with the interactive map? --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 00:46, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks!

I like that they're minimalistic personally. Makes it so they don't distract much from the remainder of the infobox content. (Not as much as an interactive map backed with tiles most likely would at least either way.) I'm not opposed to a map, but i'd prefer if it'd be one without backing tiles; again, personally. I'm not particularily familiar with the code dealing with maps though and it'd probably take me more time to implement than it'd Alex, so you'll most certainly will want to ask Alex for this. (One thing i know of that could pose a problem would be that the API bounds don't align neatly on a few maps, which might not be wanted, so might need special casing or prior processing, which would make it more complicated.) Nightsky (talk) 17:52, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Dealing with the maps api is disgusting - for the infobox maps on NPC/objects I ended up rewriting the API object to suit the wiki. There's a significant overhead to do this in terms of loading much more data than is required on each page. I would not be keen on replicating that "solution" on the area maps. Agree that the API bounds are really quite funky - I haven't written this down elsewhere, but there's a fair amount of cleanup on the API sector data before creating the locator maps. I'm biased but I like the locator files.

Comments on proposal. Impressive. I didn't know we had this extension (is there anything else useful shipped with core mw that we don't utilise?)

If there are multiple floors on the same map, then I'd suggest avoiding any collapsible wrappers within infoboxes.
My concern at the moment is the overhead required to initially populate the imagemap coordinates + put them somewhere. We could store them within a template on each locator image, and then query them with SMW? (I admit this overhead is only required infrequently when ANet add a new map).

If we did want to deal with the annoyance of redoing all our maps..., we could probably clean up the sector coordinate data a bit, create a standalone widget to draw them without tiles, and put that in the infobox). -Chieftain Alex

18:48, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I didn't check all to closely but i think we use pretty much everything listed on Special:Version. So i don't think there is anything underutilized, though this is both subjective and i may verry well have missed something, only skimming the tables.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with avoiding collapsible wrappers for maps with multiple floors. As i understand it you'd remove the collapsible sections alltogether, only showing the floor(s) applicable to the area. Is this understanding correct? (Or do you mean hiding it for maps with multiple floors technically, but where the areas are the same across all floors? (Beause in that case that'd already happen and would look like the Edge of the Mists example here currently.))

Ideally the overhead would be minimal using the Widget. I'd take the existing locator images as input (only needs one for every different floor, i.e. only one for most maps, more for some others with different areas on different floors, like e.g. Bloodstone Fen) and calculate the boundaries from the path data (Also accounting for width, height and boundingBox, if set) in those SVG files; only requiring assignment of wiki page names to the sectors, which the Widget should make simple to. From those inputs, splitting them into floors (to ouput the whole template code necessarry (instead of only the boundary information asigned the relevant page names)) shouldn't be all to difficult to allow too. Said output would be e.g. what is in between the "includeonly"-tags on this sandbox of mine (This specifically'd be what the code necessary for Bloodstone Fen would look like.), which i would have stored on subpages, one for each map, of the template they'll be using (the code for which currently resides in another sandbox of mine). To me at least that would seem like less overhead than adding a template to each locator image, which would then set a property and or create a suboject, which sounds like it'd be even more overhead, too. But using SMW instead should be possible, though it'd also add a dependency on it, that'd not be required, in the templates current form at least. Nightsky (talk) 22:31, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

About avoiding collapsible wrappers, i suggest showing all floors at once on every article in a multi-floor zone. -Chieftain Alex

23:30, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Oh; i see.

I suppose that'd make it easier to see at a glance that the areas differ accross the floors and in which floor(s) an area is.

For what it's worth: I've used the collapsabillity on the basis that it'll only show floors relevant to an area in order for the remaining floors not to distract from it while still being available if desired.

May i ask why you suggest avoiding any collapsible wrappers within infoboxes/showing all floors at once? (Does the wrapping cause any problems i'm not aware of?) Nightsky (talk) 16:23, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

I think it's just visually better to see all levels at once. Collapsible nodes are historically not very mobile friendly, and can cause unexpected page movement/resizing. -Chieftain Alex

18:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

(Reset indent) That widget is pretty cool. -Chieftain Alex

12:16, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Two observations:

Greetings from Special:WantedPages, unless you are aware of it then everything fine, {{ifexists}} exists for a good reason.
Stacking small fonts together with italic is too much in my opinion and hardly readable (parameter caption): Location within Bloodstone Fen.

--Tolkyria (talk) 14:17, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

WantedPages is probably OK for right now as it'll flush out which pages need creating. Agree after populating them we could switch to "ifexists" when done.

The double small tags was accidentally introduced by me, I think it's OK now. -Chieftain Alex

19:37, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

I am aware of the pages showing up under wanted pages. For what it's worth; that would be intended behaviour from my understanding, as per the third point in the list in my inital message in this section, and idealy they won't stay that for long (Anyone who wants to may create those template pages using the output of Widget:Locators. (Let me know on it's talk page in case there are any questions about and or problems with that widget.) It should work just fine for maps with only a single floor already; with me intending to add the floor files with no areas highlighted as a output for those with more than one when i get around to it.), though if the template version's what's wanted.

I agree doubly small is to much, but i disagree that Alex accidentally introduced that; as it was me who did so. I've worked the edits out at a time before Alex's edit. As i didn't want to save the edits anymore when i was done with them i waited, forgot about saving them at the time i meant to, then saved them, without checking them again beforehand, not having expected an edit to the template in the meantime, as i though about them again not all to long after when i meant to save them. So that's on me. I should have checked again. Nightsky (talk) 01:23, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Another one: Do we really need the line default [[File:{{#var: floor image}}]]? This line especially causes clicks "outside" the map but inside the image to land in filespace. In my opinion anything "outside" the map should be treated outside the image and thus do not link anywhere. It's kinda irritating when one suddenly lands in filespace on a missclick by one pixel. Overall I think it's a small detail that ruins the full immersive wiki user experience this template gives.

If it's compatible with the rest of the code I would suggest to remove it. --Tolkyria (talk) 11:55, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Agree. Tested, removed. -Chieftain Alex

12:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I created a slightly bodged version of your widget (over at Widget:Test) to speedily add as many of the locator subpages as I could using the files I have locally (only real difference is it pretends everything is on the same floor, and uses the filename to populate the page name).

All the remaining pages are either multi floor, didn't work (memory of lion's arch had a weird sector), or I didn't have the svg files locally already (mostly core tyria).

Anyway this should jump start making the pages. -Chieftain Alex

11:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

A few maps are somehow not correct, the linked polygons do not match the map areas, for example:

It might be that the map size does not match the image size, everything appears to be shrinked to the top left. --Tolkyria (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Hmm ok I will delete the ones which haven't worked (bit more obvious now the click zones don't go to the parent image) -Chieftain Alex

12:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Found 6 to delete - not really too sure why they weren't working. For reference I've deleted these as when they're detected with ifexists, they're immediately going to be included by the template - I'd prefer if they only get used when they work. In case it helps, I've copied Black Citadel onto sandbox -Chieftain Alex

12:23, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

The default [[File:{{#var: floor image}}]] line i included to retain the link to the file as it was available before the template, but this is of course not necessary to be included if not wanted.

As for the ones not working: The widget does not take into account transformations and i'm not sure i can add those. I would probably try to remove them from the SVGs, or try to calculate around the existing ones manually and try to not use them in future locators. Nightsky (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Removing transformations is annoying in the raw files too - the provided extensions in inkscape are inadequate. One method I've found is: (a) cut all objects from current layer, paste onto new layer (removes group level transforms), and then apply a kludged version of an extension called applyTransforms (which removes element level transforms). The other option is "optimized svg" export, which has its own problems (labor intensive to correct as I just found out).

Any accepted solution probably needs to have a strategy to deal with transforms. -Chieftain Alex

17:48, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I guess i could try and remove the transformations locally and upload new versions of the locator files without them (and other unecessary things (such as everything that incscape adds (For that it would be good to know whether files like e.g. File:Bloodstone Fen area outlines (Sky).svg open and look as expected (as they do in the browser) when opened in incscape. (Is that the case? (Alternatively, would the files even need to be further editable with vector editing software?))))) if that would be acceptable? Nightsky (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Code

I'm probably a little bit late, but I'm curious if we could simplify the code a bit, wouldn't be the following be enough?

Single floor

{{locators|
poly A1 A2 [[<location1>]]
poly B1 B2 [[<location2>]]
|caption={{{caption|}}}|locator={{{locator|}}}|page={{{page|}}}}}

This would allow to reduce it to a simple parameter call ({{{1|}}}) in the imagemap rather than two #arraymaps and two #explodes. Also no need to specify the area names again in the parameter 2 list.

Multiple floors

{{locators|
poly A1 A2 [[<location1>]] ~ <location1> ~ floor1;floor2
poly B1 B2 [[<location2>]] ~ <location2> ~ floor3
|
<floor1> ~ <floor1>.svg
<floor2> ~ <floor2>.svg
<floor3> ~ <floor3>.svg
|caption={{{caption|}}}|locator={{{locator|}}}|page={{{page|}}}}}

Here we are shifting the area-floor matching from parameter 2 to parameter 1, it would reduce it to one #arraymap with #pos check if the current line is in the currently treated floor.

Please ignore it if I'm missing a crucial point here. --Tolkyria (talk) 14:48, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Or maybe this even more cleaner code for multiple floors:

{{locators|<!-- floor 1 -->
poly A1 A2 [[<location1>]]
poly B1 B2 [[<location2>]]
--- <!-- floor 2 -->
poly A1 A2 [[<location1>]]
poly C1 C2 [[<location3>]]
--- <!-- floor 2 -->
poly B1 B2 [[<location2>]]
poly E1 E2 [[<location5>]]
|
<floor1> ~ <floor1>.svg
<floor2> ~ <floor2>.svg
<floor3> ~ <floor3>.svg
|caption={{{caption|}}}|locator={{{locator|}}}|page={{{page|}}}}}

--Tolkyria (talk) 16:28, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm having a hard time trying to follow the first version. (I'm especially confused by the "<floor2> ~ <floor3>.svg"-line being there twice (Is that perhaps meant to be "<floor2> ~ <floor2&3>.svg" and "<floor3> ~ <floor2&3>.svg"?), by the " ~ <location1>"-bit (also by the same for 2 below it) as to what it's purpose would be and i'm guessing you meant to list them in reverse, with floor 3 at the top and 1 at the bottom?) Could you perhaps change the above to use example values (except for the coordinates) instead of the placeholders, so it might be more easily understood? Alternatively, if you can get a code simplified version of the locator templates to work, the existing locator templates can likely be exchanged for the simplified version still. At least i can't think of something why they could not.

The second version would at least duplicate some of the boundaries which is what i wanted to prevent by splitting the boundary information out. If it being duplicated and thus having to be updated in more than one place is fine we could use that too. Nightsky (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, obviously I mixed something up in my examples above, I fixed it.

I gave it a try in my User:Tolkyria/Sandbox (I'm not gonna link it with all the dependencies). One could reduce code the even more by introducing for example the parameters floor names 1..5 and floor image 1..5 rather than having everything stuck together in the unnamed parameter 2.

The current solution doesn't support multiple floors where one area has different polygons in different floors. A multi-floor solution would support this, however I'm not sure if something even exists. --Tolkyria (talk) 19:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

That the current template doesn't support multiple floors where one area has different polygons in different floors is true. And while i didn't find any area for which this is the case when looking for one, that doesn't mean that that'll hold in the future, though i do find it unlikely to happen, hence why i ended up not accounting for it in the template.

Your template i'll need to have a closer look at another time. It looks good as far as i can tell, except for perhaps i think it might end up having problems with piped links as e.g. used in {{Locators/Green Alpine Borderlands}}. Nightsky (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I had a closer look now. Only thing i'd change would be {{#explode: {{#explode: $$$|[|2}}|]|0}} to {{#explode: {{#explode: {{#explode: $$$|[|2}}|]|0}}|{{!}}|0}} in case the above mentioned occurs on a map with multiple floors.

If we end up sticking with the locators, we can replace the existing templates with yours. No point in doing so now though in case we end up choosing the map widget that has appeared. Nightsky (talk) 13:57, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Historical context

Something we could also have considered would have been implmenting what dr ishmael originally proposed in 2013. It's possible to add href links into the SVG files directly. We could have used a widget to swap out the mediawiki PNG raster with the underlying SVG. Probably not feasible at this point to go back and update all the svg files though. -Chieftain Alex 13:36, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Wouldn't this mean that we have to handle such simple tasks as an area page rename/move externally, requiring an additional action outside of the wiki feels like a nightmare. Sure, only experienced used are able to adjust imagemaps, but still it's just a simple template edit here. --Tolkyria (talk) 16:28, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Personally i'd prefer the current way, using the imagemap, except there's handling the transformations, but there's also what Tolkyria mentions above on the other side, so i'm not so sure about it. Nightsky (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Just to be clear, my argument supports imagemaps, those allow fast rename/move changes. Having href links in an image file would mean to download this file, adjust the link and reupload it again, given that the person has the knowledge on how to do this. There are more wiki editors that can edit the imagemap subtemplates to rename an area rather than performing a href link change. --Tolkyria (talk) 19:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

And just so i'm clear too; i'm torn. While imagemaps seem great, handling the transformations in the SVGs to output paths that can be used with them seems cumbersome. Likewise, while a widget to replace the images with an SVG would be simpler, there's the consideration you brought up that there are likely less people on the wiki who can edit the SVG as necessary than those who can edit a template as necessary. Additionally, while the last would only require one SVG per map, assuming the widget would make use of the fragment when replacing the file on the page already anyways and the SVG of IDs, there'd still be the requirement of a widget and a maping from.. page names? i guess, to IDs for highlighting via CSS in the SVG, which could make it more complicated to update if it were somthing like Base64 encoding. Nightsky (talk) 21:58, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Considering the locator images are always small thumbnails, I think we could get away with using the api data directly to generate the equivalent black outlines with red shading, plus links to area pages. We already have the required data used on the interactive map template. Really worth considering to reduce (A) requirement to make locator svg files, (B) number of things to update per release. -Chieftain Alex

22:34, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Something else to note is the sectors as they were created for the core maps all pre-dated the API. I've put some thoughts on a couple of options on User:Chieftain Alex/sandbox5. -Chieftain Alex

20:18, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps have a look at some more areas, for example "Depth of Despair" or "Grand Causeway" (which presently don't seem to work) and maybe add a bit of a border on the outside or have the first click navigate to the pages imidiatelly instead of bringing up a popup so it's easier to go there when it's like at the top of the map, as with "Experimental Lab Green" for example, and maybe considder adding a control to switch between the different floors, if applicable to a map, as well; but otherwise, go for it. Nightsky (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Grand Causeway is due to the raid not being whitelisted such that it is missing from Widget:Interactive map data builder/locator-map-output.js, I suppose it could be added to the whitelist, however it has no valid map tiles so I wouldn't normally want it appearing on the world map

I suspect Depth of Despair is failing because Template:Locator map does an explode and only fetches the first map ID from Twilight Arbor (documenting two zones on the same page is a bit icky). That first ID (original dungeon release version) then isn't included in the given map (part of the aetherblade version) (edit: and additionally the aetherblade version isn't whitelisted, only map id 67, not 68).

I think a more subtle/graceful failure to find sectors would be required than the current implementation.

Regarding linking each sector without a popup, I couldn't see an easy way to do that - ideas appreciated. -Chieftain Alex

20:33, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

You could considder doing something like:

m.on("click", function(e) {
    window.location = createUrl(sector);
});

with .createUrl(...) returning something like "/wiki/Sandbound_Towers", or the full URL, or something else depending on whatever flavour of naviation you'd want to use exactly. Nightsky (talk) 23:40, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Implemented something of that spirit. Not 100% happy (href doesn't display the intended link in the browser like an anchor link would <a href="...">...</a>) would), but its perfectly functional. -Chieftain Alex

18:38, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree. It is functional.

I've created some subtemplates (for all single floor maps for which i could do so without changing any of the locators) in the meantime. I've also exchanged the Locators templates code for Tolkyrias code and updated the subtemplates accordingly. That new format makes assigning the area names much easier. Unfortunatelly it too cannot present some maps at the moment. This specifically affects maps with areas that appear on more than one floor, but where they are not in the same area accross the locators.

This can be seen, for example, when looking at the Colleges when previewing the following on the subtemplate page for Rata Sum:

<includeonly>{{locators|
poly 610.9 587.15 656.69 532.63 532.62 215.27 470.91 204.49 246.27 469.86 268.53 530.29 610.9 587.15 [[Council Level]]
---
poly 268.53 530.29 610.9 587.15 387.46 853.16 268.53 530.29 [[College of Synergetics]]
poly 610.9 587.15 656.69 532.63 532.62 215.27 470.91 204.49 246.27 469.86 268.53 530.29 610.9 587.15 [[Creator's Commons]]
poly 656.69 532.63 873.27 274.79 532.62 215.27 656.69 532.63 [[College of Statics]]
poly 470.91 204.49 246.27 469.86 126.34 144.29 470.91 204.49 [[College of Dynamics]]
poly 1346.6 1671.89 1654.07 1359.63 1885.5 384.96 1322.99 128 873.27 274.79 387.46 853.16 348.57 1216.06 1346.6 1671.89 [[Riven Valley]]
poly 1214.02 -703.73 755.16 -595.65 616.52 -288.05 18.36 -504.14 -172.92 -574.18 -385.05 -300.43 126.34 144.29 873.27 274.79 1322.99 128 1214.02 -703.73 [[Arkentia Valley]]
poly -385.05 -300.43 -826.74 -144.61 -826.74 598.19 -205.49 401.12 -34.78 594.82 -22.15 843.82 -359.14 1160.86 261.57 1205.14 348.57 1216.06 387.46 853.16 126.34 144.29 -385.05 -300.43 [[Magus Valley]]
---
poly 605.55 593.52 516.01 518.05 376.35 493.8 269.61 533.22 387.46 853.16 605.55 593.52 [[Synergetics Union]]
poly 244.42 464.83 353.71 425.14 441.57 321.21 458.64 202.35 126.34 144.29 244.42 464.83 [[Dynamics Union]]
poly 651.9 538.34 564.07 462.29 513.71 330.86 537.64 216.15 873.27 274.79 651.9 538.34 [[Statics Union]]
poly 605.55 593.52 651.9 538.34 564.07 462.29 513.71 330.86 537.64 216.15 458.64 202.35 441.57 321.21 353.71 425.14 244.42 464.83 269.61 533.22 376.35 493.8 516.01 518.05 605.55 593.52 [[Interdisciplinary Accessium]]
---
poly 504.77 713.5 471.56 705.18 503.63 667.04 490 657.2 581.51 548.07 467.52 452.89 436.34 451.46 307.15 499.59 356.66 633.2 338.73 638.76 354.38 682.95 324.27 681.6 387.46 853.16 504.77 713.5 [[Auxiliary Study Rooms]]
poly 504.77 713.5 471.56 705.18 503.63 667.04 490 657.2 694.79 413 708.18 423.36 740.68 388 754.33 416.39 504.77 713.5 [[Skibo Hall]]
poly 873.27 274.79 754.33 416.39 740.68 388 708.18 423.36 694.79 413 604.27 520.94 491.12 428.8 483.13 398.45 507.62 257.97 648.34 282.18 650.61 265.26 700.61 274.35 690.67 242.88 873.27 274.79 [[Apprentice Carrels]]
poly 188.2 312.23 209.07 289.96 228.18 340.32 245.5 333.18 356.66 633.2 338.73 638.76 354.38 682.95 324.27 681.6 188.2 312.23 [[Tark Hall]]
poly 306.74 175.81 288.22 198.08 335.69 211.21 332.66 227.88 648.34 282.18 650.61 265.26 700.61 274.35 690.67 242.88 306.74 175.81 [[Frick Hall]]
poly 126.34 144.29 306.74 175.81 288.22 198.08 335.69 211.21 332.66 227.88 473.51 252.11 447.44 396.95 430.02 416.65 295.31 467.62 245.5 333.18 228.18 340.32 209.07 289.96 188.2 312.23 126.34 144.29 [[Lower Research Stacks]]
poly 473.51 252.11 507.62 257.97 483.13 398.45 491.12 428.8 604.27 520.94 581.51 548.07 467.52 452.89 436.34 451.46 307.15 499.59 295.31 467.62 430.02 416.65 447.44 396.95 473.51 252.11 [[The Golem Mines]]
---
poly 343.57 2632.57 761.07 2997.21 1237.14 2868.29 1409.29 2002.57 788.57 1958.29 446.43 1853.29 343.57 2632.57 [[Rata Sum Port Authority]]
poly 788.57 1958.29 1125.56 1641.25 1112.94 1392.25 942.22 1198.55 263.14 1413.97 446.43 1853.29 788.57 1958.29 [[Snaff Memorial Lab]]
poly 1409.29 2002.57 1496.29 2013.49 2494.32 2469.32 1831.72 2999.4 1237.14 2868.29 1409.29 2002.57 [[Idea Incubation Lab]]
poly 2494.32 2469.32 2801.78 2157.06 3033.21 1182.39 2470.71 925.43 2020.98 1072.21 1535.18 1650.59 1496.29 2013.49 2494.32 2469.32 [[Riven Valley]]
poly 3033.21 1182.39 3193.09 989.45 3148.27 290.17 2361.74 93.7 2470.71 925.43 3033.21 1182.39 [[Polymock Arenas]]
poly 2361.74 93.7 1902.87 201.78 1764.23 509.37 1166.07 293.29 974.8 223.25 762.67 497 1274.05 941.72 2020.98 1072.21 2470.71 925.43 2361.74 93.7 [[Arkentia Valley]]
poly 1764.23 509.37 1902.87 201.78 1492.5 92.69 1165.04 292.91 1764.23 509.37 [[Advanced Metamystics Lab]]
poly 974.8 223.25 788.93 64.91 564.68 64.91 376.53 100.77 62.63 357.6 320.98 652.82 762.67 497 974.8 223.25 [[Applied Development Lab]]
poly 762.67 497 320.98 652.82 320.98 1395.62 942.22 1198.55 1112.94 1392.25 1125.56 1641.25 788.57 1958.29 1409.29 2002.57 1496.29 2013.49 1535.18 1650.59 1274.05 941.72 762.67 497 [[Magus Valley]]
poly 1416.24 1327.72 1758.61 1384.58 1535.18 1650.59 1416.24 1327.72 [[College of Synergetics]]
poly 1758.61 1384.58 1804.41 1330.06 1680.33 1012.7 1618.62 1001.92 1393.98 1267.29 1416.24 1327.72 1758.61 1384.58 [[Creator's Commons]]
poly 1804.41 1330.06 2020.98 1072.21 1680.33 1012.7 1804.41 1330.06 [[College of Statics]]
poly 1618.62 1001.92 1393.98 1267.29 1274.05 941.72 1618.62 1001.92 [[College of Dynamics]]
|
A ~ Council Level locator.svg
B ~ Creator's Commons locator.svg
C ~ Interdisciplinary Accessium locator.svg
D ~ The Golem Mines locator.svg
E ~ Riven Valley locator.svg
|caption={{{caption|}}}|locator={{{locator|}}}|page={{{page|}}}}}</includeonly><noinclude>
{{locators/preview|
Advanced Metamystics Lab
Applied Development Lab
Apprentice Carrels
Arkentia Valley
Auxiliary Study Rooms
College of Dynamics
College of Statics
College of Synergetics
Council Level
Creator's Commons
Dynamics Union
Frick Hall
Idea Incubation Lab
Interdisciplinary Accessium
Lower Research Stacks
Magus Valley
Polymock Arenas
Rata Sum Port Authority
Riven Valley
Skibo Hall
Snaff Memorial Lab
Statics Union
Synergetics Union
Tark Hall
The Golem Mines
}}

[[Category:Map templates]]
</noinclude>

This problem affects the following maps:

Divinity's Reach
Rata Sum
The Grove
Twilight Arbor
Tangled Depths‏‎

Additionally, the following maps seem to not have any collisions as the above maps, but i didn't do them as it would have required non highlighted locator files and i didn't want to do those only for them to get obsoleted once the map widget's introduced into the infobox:

Honor of the Waves
Verdant Brink
Draconis Mons‏‎
Caudecus's Manor

As for the maps on single floors i did not do, that's because of the following:

Plains of Ashford‏‎ — Some areas appear to have the locator stuck on an old revision for the layout of the Langmar Estate area.
Snowden Drifts — Angvar's Trove seems to be both missing a locator and missing from the locators.
Brisban Wildlands — Tangle Root seems to be both missing a locator and missing from the locators.
Dry Top — Cavern of the Shining Lights has a differently sized locator than the other locators.

I'm unsure on whether there's even any point to creating even more of the locator templates though, with the map widget set to replace them anyways, as far as i understand it at least. Nightsky (talk) 19:52, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

(Reset indent)

Okay I know this conversation is archived because it was 4 months ago, but with the new release I've switched Template:Locator map/Widget:Locator map on. Slight change in strategy; its only enabled as a fallback if the svg doesn't exist. Its ugly vs the hand drawn ones. When I eventually buy the campaign I might make some svgs. -Chieftain Alex

23:57, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Suggestion: Add gw2fortune.com to trading post item pages

Dear Guild Wars 2 Community,

You may recall a website I created years ago called gw2shinies.com, which was once one of the leading trading post tools for Guild Wars 2. After a lengthy hiatus, I'm excited to announce my return to the community with renewed passion for both the game and tool development.

I am proud to present a brand new trading post tool, gw2fortune.com, designed with your needs in mind. I humbly request that this website be integrated into trading post enabled item pages on the wiki (the location where gw2efficiency and gw2bltc currently reside) to help reconnect and serve the community.

If you believe the site requires additional features or improvements before being added, please don't hesitate to share your feedback. As an agile developer, I can quickly implement changes and continuously work on enhancing the platform to better serve you all.

Looking forward to your thoughts and support.

Warm regards, RebornGeek

Hello and welcome back to the game. It is always good to see more tools being developed for the game, however the wiki infoboxes already has links to gw2bltc/gw2tp. I don't think it needs to link to a third TP tool unless it has truly unique functionality. Furthermore, prominently linking to other sites in our infoboxes may be seen as the wiki "endorsing" the site, which I would hesitate to do because your tool is still very new. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 05:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

What constitutes as "truly unique"? Not so long ago I recall both gw2spidy.com and gw2tp.com on these pages for years. All I'm asking for is for the same opportunity they got. Reborngeek (talk) 05:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

What I mean by that is it would have some functionality that's not covered by the other sites. Btw, checking the infobox history, gw2spidy and gw2tp were the first TP tools to be added back in 2014, so I don't think it is a comparable situation. In fact, gw2shinies was given a chance and added in 2015, but was removed in 2017 after you quit. It's just my opinion but I don't see a compelling reason to add your new tool to the infobox at the moment. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 07:05, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Very well, I shall work harder to bring more offerings to the floor. Reborngeek (talk) 15:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Buffs that the tool currently does not offer anything that's not already available from the current linked sites. I am also not a fan of promoting a brand-new site on thousands of pages, as it is not known/popular in the community. The wiki is not a place for advertisement, for that we technically have the List of fanpages. ~Sime 16:04, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I understand that it's not a place to advertise. May I ask what makes gw2tp.com unique from gw2bltc.com that both should be listed? I'm asking for my own learnings so that I can work to provide a more unique tool for the community. Reborngeek (talk) 22:32, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

sms verifcation

hello i am playing the game for 2 years and now after changing internet the game asks for sms verification but i no longer use my phone.I tried solving problem via GW2 support page but can't log in to anything or submit a ticket,can you help?

Answered on Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Ask a wiki question#sms verification. -Chieftain Alex

16:00, 26 April 2023 (UTC)