Guild Chat - Episode 53
From Guild Wars 2 Wiki
Guild Chat - Episode 53
- The following is an unofficial, player-written transcript of the episode. The accuracy of this transcription has not been verified by ArenaNet.
The episode of Guild Chat aired on Aug 31, 2017. Host Rubi Bayer interviews the members of the mounts team.
we're introducing mounts for the first time into Guild Wars 2 each mount has places that it can get to and no other mount kin and that just opens out the possibilities for what we can do with building workplaces that aren't like anything players have seen in Guild Wars before aha there's a cut-down surprise welcome back to kill chat it is Mouse week and I hope you guys have been enjoying everything we're going to wrap up the week for the guild chat where we show you some of how we made the mounts and a few things that you haven't seen before so we will jump right on in with our first round of David guests let you guys introduce yourselves hey I'm Roy cronic I'm Paul sports Walter I'm Matt Lambton and what you do for the mounts team I'm a designer and team lead ferments I'm a programmer I mostly just tracking down bugs kind of thing I'm a producer do more than that yes and thank you Matt for making sure anything it all gets done yes that should be your official title all right so first question and one that I've seen asked a few times what made you guys decide to include mounts now um well mouse has been something we've thought about for a really long time but we knew we want to do them differently and we knew that would take a lot of time to do it right okay and this was our first opportunity to really focus on that and make that the centerpiece of expansion and her thorns we spent a lot of time setting up systems like masteries elite specs things like that for future of the game and now we can really expand upon those systems and play into them like how mounts play into masteries and basically gave us the freedom to really make sure there and agreed to Maps and that we could do them right well everybody's kind of loving them so it is it is kind of a it's a different implementation than just hey hop on this thing and it's it's a gigantic speed buff with a fancy skin I mean yeah um a lot of games just have now it says like a cosmetic piece for your character and increases your movement speed um and kind of it just feels like your character but running faster we started and we knew we want to do something different and really have mounts really feel like they have a way in the world as they're moving around all their movements animations actually feel like they're part of the world and have it be a different experience than the characters so we really started with that core philosophy of making sure the movement feels different and like you're riding this creature on the poster running around on your character yeah we've and that was a conversation that we saw a lot after that first pretty weekend event the movement of the Raptors and how much they they it wasn't just this like light thing that kind of clumped around the world but it felt like stopping and starting was a thing that a creature built like that would do and like Joel's showing us now so let's talk a little bit about implementing that as more than just a movement tool and integrating that with this discussion of okay maybe not necessarily mounted combat but this balance between not just a movement tool something a little bit more but not full-on mounted combat how did you guys how did you guys come up with the balance that you ended up with um we actually started experimenting with mounted combat a bit just because that's kind of the natural place people go to you when they think of like taking mounts a step further but um when experimenting with it with a more advanced movement that we have on mounts it felt kind of clunky with this weighted movement try a fight on your mount and we really liked how mounts fell and wanted to play up that feeling of movement and exploration in the world we also found that where you had this great system for expanding on combat in the game elite specs which we have more than this expansion um that you guys saw last week and we really didn't want to like overlap two systems and have them fight for like one is this apex predator because like one will end up being more fun or more exciting so we really wanted to keep them separate and make mounts more about like movement and exploration and idea kind of came from heart of thorns when we had added gliders we realized players really loved getting new tools to explore the world and we were like what if we take that and make it a whole system and mounts were really good vessel for that each one offering a different movement style and way to explore the world I think something to add on to that I think the whole development teams really proud about how the mounts feel and everybody you pointed out that in the the preview weekend players were blown away by how the Raptor felt and I think that players are going to equally blown away by how the other three mounts feel and something that's kind of cool to note is throughout development we were very focused on making them feel like creatures not just a you know a moving speed on your on your character it feels like you're on that creature and so that was kind of like one of the pillars that we were always working towards when we were played testing early and even when we were polishing later and habit it's kind of like what we were working towards but not really like a player facing thing that everyone knew about or was looking for and having them kind of like echo that and hear that from players and go oh my gosh like I think we really succeeded this because they're saying that that's how it feels you know yeah how gratifying was that yeah really yeah a lot of work which you guys will hear about later you're from some of our programmers too I love her work a lot of work way into like the movement system and a lot of subtle things that might not be super apparent to you while you're riding on the mount but we did a ton of subtle things to really add up to the whole experience and we just really wide mounts to feel good while you're running around exploring the world like they should feel good and path of fire exploring the areas but should also feel good in the old world as well mmm and just feel like a toy that you can use to move around the world experience it in a different way and a little distracted watching Springer just repeatedly German rocket into the Strand a lot of the little subtle things that you guys did to make them feel better is that more of a second segment figure is that something that you can expand on now I mean we can talk about it a tiny bit but I would save it for the second programming later yeah like just a high-level like we have a new movement system you camera system a lot of things like client-side actions which we'll get into later but all there is really the animation system we all did a lot of things that really culminated to what mounts are today I want to talk a little bit about the engage skills because that and that's like you said you guys didn't want to just take over hey we have all of these great elite specs but the mounts are literally fighting for this fighting for the play space but the engage skills feel like a nice compromise there yeah so when we were testing out mounts they initially have engaged skills we found it a little bit clunky the fact that like you to run up to a fight on the mount and just have to dismount and run up and start fighting and we're like that's not really a smooth experience to like transition yeah it was kind of like abrupt it feels like a break in pacing so we tried out using engage skills which are way for the mount to jump into combat fuel damage set you up for combat and the player like for the Raptor you can upgrade that pulls in on amis to itself when you engage onto them so kind of pulls in the enemies and sets you up for a player combat and just mounts to at the same time so it's a way to say put yourself an advantage going into a fight and cleanly transition so that you can just start fighting immediately and there's that tail sweep right yeah yeah each one has a different one they're pretty cool do we talk about other words yeah I can probably show off some of them like the bunny especially is real good we're gonna run through all of them here a little bit but do you wanna give a hint on one of the other ones yeah like for the Springer it basically jumps up into the air and does this cannonball kind of move and lands and knocks everything down with its upgrade you'll see it here shortly you can have to use it after using the engage skills don't forget even prepare up into this guy like you guys just saw we tried to like find things like that that um added to experience like originally you could just use the engage skill um by itself but then it came up I think and play test it'd be cool if you could use it after you use movement-building are already really high in the air so we're like sure let's see how it feels and everyone loved it and it stuck well yeah look at it so that's kind of your mount progression there it's part of the mount progression yes yeah engage um yeah so with progression we have masteries when you unlock a mount you unlock its associated mastery lying with it allows you access to upgrading the mount and all sorts of different ways um we kind of focus on what the mount can already feel and add on to it like in the demo experience you guys tried the Raptor and they don't like to jump like 800 distance which is not the craziest thing but when you upgrade it actually goes twice as far after 16 kills wait under way further than really far most players have experienced and we kind of kept that same kind of thought process for the other mounts as well like Springer jumps up twice as high stuff like that please understand I was complaining about 800 800 was pretty great too yeah well that's a good sign cuz I'm a demo everyone even loved it into current version and we're all here or like having played it like for so long we're like it doesn't feel that amazing just because we're so used to these like even crazier versions they're upgraded yeah playing with them so much so real excited to see everyone try out super crazy versions of them so you guys and we've all experienced how to pick up your Raptor mount is that kind of how we're gonna do the other ones oh we did the round heart yeah so um I hope you know most of them are did yeah most of them from vendors that that you pick them up but I'm pretty sure you've got to do a thing to unlock them I've not done it yet myself for anything except for the Raptor so so we have mount camps which are basically special renowned hearts in the world I saw the first one in the first story instance that's kind of a way to set up how you acquire them and tutorial eyes mounts a bit and we followed that same pattern in the open world so you'll like go to these special renowned hearts and be able to try out the mount use its movement ability get some experience with it and then as you progress and complete the heart you'll get the option to unlock it for yourself then that was one of the things that I had noticed and it was just something that kind of happened organically as I was playing around and completing that heart to get my Raptor mount when we were all playing during the creepy weekend was that yeah I could make it I could make it a lot more difficult and make it take longer by just going through and doing the same thing in this one tiny space over and over or I could go around the way it's intended and go up and down these stairs and make these jumps and progress a little bit faster and also actually get better at using this thing and it was really clever the way you guys made this you had all these little constructs and these ramps and bridges and broken up places yeah that kind of forced us to learn okay well I don't completely suck at this thing right like we didn't want someone to pick up this mountain and then have no idea how to use it so some of the mechanics were built into the heart itself to teach it yeah our map artist and a really good job with all the maps way now those map mount cam some and really say hey up so there's a lot of areas where you can utilize now and some there's even a lot of subtle places across some maps where I like there might be a broken bridge that you if they slightly run around but you can jump over on the rafter we tried to make a lot of areas that promote using mounts but don't really feel like a hassle to like run through or like hard gates we did a lot of like soft eighty kind of areas so it's like you're slightly more efficient using man scenario or maybe there's multiple ways to get it on other mounts but there's usually one that's like slightly better before going over it yeah since we've kind of been looking at all of these different mounts over here and enjoying how much fun they are I wanted to talk about how you guys decided what to use for mounts and the progression of what they look like what they are where did you guys even begin um I'd say the beginning really started with mom well first we were trying to figure out like what mounts are in Guild Wars 2 but once we decided to go with the movement ability exploration tool focus we started really with like what types of train we wanted each mount to kind of overcome like we knew with one we wide this horizontal leap one with the vertical leap one for like going over water and hazards in the world like skimmer as you can see on the screen right now jackal does teleports and uses sand portals in the world to get to really cool areas and actually has a lot of combination with the teleport as well yeah I think the horizontal vertical jump were the easy ones to come up with but there are a lot of vertical obstacles in Guild Wars and there's quite a bit of water so it seemed like a reasonable route to go yeah and so I think the the obstacles kind of the the way that it would move and Traverse the world kind of dictated the creature more so than the other way around just because it was easier to kind of brainstorm what does this type of thing Oh a bunny you know type creature might jump high yeah we started with that then we kind of played off of the anatomy of the creature as well for um like how it moves in the world like each mount has its own custom physics and like feel to moving about the world and we really wanted to tie in like this mount should feel like how you'd expected move like the skimmer is floating above the ground so feels like you should have a little bit more sliding movement built into it yeah oh there's actually a few yeah these are some of the early concept art for different exploring different creature ideas for the different mounts there's a few questions we can maybe cover um so we were just looking at the bunny the Springer and one of the questions is does it have less fall damage each mount has its own custom set of variables let's say so each mounts tolerance to fall damage is slightly different the Springer can take this Li take bigger jumps without taking damage like we want you to jump up with its movement ability then crash down onto the ground and take damage like that feel bad that's just mean yeah yeah so we kind of tune them for like what made sense for the creature and the spring is really good at jumping to high places so actually want this masteries is taking less fall damage and having more tolerance to falling from bigger heights that something actually gets shared across all now it said cheer for of the master angle oh sweet yeah and the masteries we try and have um like the first year is some upgrade for the mount where say like Springer where you take less fall damage then on the fourth tier actually gets the option to share that across all your other mounts so it's kind of this matrix way of progressing so that even if you have your favorite mount you'll still benefit from progressing all the mastery lines to max right and it makes it it pretty cool if you've found a favorite mount and you just put the heck out of that and then you max it out you can then take aspects that mount to your other mounts and vice versa and then I guess you know because it isn't the mastery system it's pretty cool that you can train one mount specifically while you're getting experience no matter what mount you decide to ride at that time so it's just kind of yeah a little less restrictive right yeah and there's another question about motion sickness what some of the custom cameras we do have new options for the camera to turn off some things like camera roll and a few other things control blur a bit and stuff like that so we do have ways to toggle those on or off we did a lot of them work on the cameras to really just like push the experience of feeling what it's like mounted but it's not for everyone people have different tolerances that stuff so there are so you can toggle some of those off and that should help with the motion sickness yeah yeah I remember when Roy was adding those and they were obviously tuned way higher than they would be really and it was pretty wild I mean it was very cool right because you know when you'd run certain ways whenever you would see your camera affected or the screen effect you know and it felt really cool but it was very obvious as a cool it feels pretty cool was even like rough for me since I was like saying up all the cameras for that so I had to go through all the settings and like tone it down low by oh yeah for sure yeah because we had like the cameras allow you to do whatever you want like it's all custom variables so I defined like a starting place and kind of just play around with everything until it felt good thank you for it in and they're like what five percent or less of what you could have yeah so really they're very low I'm I'm kind of curious now but I should probably just what let well enough alone kind of let it go you know we were looking at the concept art earlier and if we could go back to that and talk because there's a lot there that we ended up not using it I know Cory mountain the top yeah oh yeah that's one there Corky yeah okay yeah we don't have we don't actually have a cordis around everybody loves that they're both looking at the camera like what are you gonna do yeah but we did talk we did talk about one thing that you mentioned was visual clutter and you had to bring down the size of the balance yeah I mean we actually experimented with like a few larger amounts and like what would look like in the world and our even our current mounts were bigger and game at one point but we had to be very cognizant of like how much visual space they were taking up in the world and because we want them to look cool and feel awesome but we and why create these like huge things that just like block your screen right it's you know you got potentially tens if not you know fifty people on the screen at once and some world bosses and people be mounting up and you want that player to be super awesome for the individual like I feel powerful I feel awesome because I've got this awesome big creature or like you know we're just at the bank you don't want to have like giant mounts blocking the blocking the bank for everyone it's yeah yeah I mean it's something we were worrying about like the whole time I think we came to a good place where the mounts feel like they're you're like a good size in the world um but not too big he still makes sense the skimmer was like a third bigger yeah you should be like way bigger yeah most heard out there that he's like 30% bigger at one point um and then we pulled them back in we started with them a lot bigger and they were cool but we just found like wooden playtesting in groups there was just way too much space being taken up and they scale a little bit to the slider scale on your character model size right okay so that's light amount yeah it's to have um some variance in size in the world so yes don't have all these some skimmers or Raptors that look exactly the same alone standard-issue Springer with tiny Asura lost and that's what I'm thinking you have like a very small scale character just lost on the back of this gigantic mount it was pretty interesting with the concept art - um since we started with like the movement abilities and like try come up with creatures for white phantom we definitely explored a lot of different things so you can see like different approaches different creatures some and some won't we actually create new creatures that day exist like the idea of like jackal like this creature made up of these magic stones that are like held together with sand the springer even though it ended up more funny like we experimented a lot with mixing kangaroo and um a bunny as well in fact the early development name of the Springer was kangaroo we you know it has the long legs people liked the cute nests of the mallet it was something we kind of went back and forth on a lot of other mounts were more serious and we wanted to provide like a good variety of like different personalities and different types of mounts that would appeal to different people yeah so we tried to get a good spread and like you guys saw even though the idle animations our animators put a lot of life to these characters um and they really like stand out like if they're just hanging out like the Raptor who kind of shakes you off and then the characters kind of like what the hell well you know and this is probably a good time we've talked about some of the stuff that we weren't able to do like you know we had to scale these down but let's look at the stuff that we did do and take a peek at some of the other mounts and as soon as Joel stops picking fights over there the other ones and see what they do yeah so like the skimmers on the screen right now it's always hovering above the ground so we can pass over objects or dangerous terrain right now you might have seen in the demo of this area's quicksand and will wreck your character super fast but the skimmer can just really hover above it um there's some other clever ways to get to this mastery point that's up there as well but this is primarily a skimmer area we tried to give clues as well like the skimmer is I'm floating around so the player can help realize like oh it's a skimmer err maybe I should get my skimmer to help like go over this challenge the skimmer has some pretty unique things like over water in quicksand ashley gets a speed boost and a little bit of friction decrease or you have a little bit more sliding movement just to play in the feeling of like hovering um I felt cool like when you're going from land to water to like increase speed a bit and kind of get more like hovercraft feel like sliding around let's speed the speed bonus is pretty noticeable too so it feels really good and some of the maps that have a lot of water on them there's actually a decent amount of water in some of the some of these court area so what you character said but I feel I just looked over at the screen to find him just standing the middle of the sand yeah there was a loading screen before that I looked over at Jolin he's just going I mean that brings up a good point about bringing these back into um the court area and like skimmer specifically I think will be really useful in areas like or where you can go yeah like go around on the outskirts along the water and purposive faster without um with the advantage of avoiding like enemies and getting to where you want mm-hmm another cool thing about the skimmer is you can actually mount it while you are on the surface of the water so you can you don't need to go back to land in order to do that yeah so you can be like either if you're just mounted or maybe fighting in the water you swim up to the surface and then you can mount up on it and as you can see it's moved me ability kind of raises up its hover high you'll extend out its wings I'm lazy off the ground it kind of has this light go slow fall effect so you can actually get some distance like going over gaps um things like that you can use it in some clever ways to reach some cool spots or even just raise the up so that like maybe there's an eye in the water that you normally couldn't get to you because it's too high but you can raise yourself up and reach that spot and when you're hovering higher it actually reduces your gravity so it kind of floats a little bit more to begin with but um you know if you go off a Ridge or a cliff and you're using the movement ability you'll kind of drift and kind of glide a little bit so I do like the schemers movement quite a lot especially when he's like banking yeah that was very well done yeah I can't wait for people to try try out this camera personally like it's probably my favorite for like the base movement just because I could make it and push it a little bit more than some of the other ones um just because it was floating adding in that like will be of slighty movement to me feels like really good just cuz it's a bit different almost feels like um hovercraft over water or something like that in games are like a car drifting a bit um it's fun I could never tell does the movement ability on the scrim actually make it go faster or does it just kind of feel that way let's give it a little bit of a speed boost so Catarina as well yep I'm sorry as soon as you said like a car I was like well of course you yeah yeah I know that um skimmer you know there was a lot of polishing and tuning that went into the movement so um you know house we were I'm going to develop and nailing down the visuals and just all the aspects of the mount we were always looking at how did it feel when it moved and um was it to slidy or was it you know slightly enough when it was moving around that was definitely one of the kind of points of contention rear plate testing is like but now it's too much now it's a little and yeah yeah we spent a lot of time just really tweaking and iterating on all the movements for all the mounts just to a point where it feels good like Matt was saying like there's definitely time where it was - sliding some people liked it but a lot of people didn't so we had to like tone it down a bit and find like a good balance and middle ground where I like that's the feel you can still like control it reasonably well and all that that kind of goes for all the amounts we amounts have changed a lot over the course of development and it really shows that like we would try stuff out find stuff that worked follow that find stuff that don't work and kind of to like just drop that and we just really iterated a whole ton um since it was mounts really are a lot about like movement and feel in the world so it was a lot of play testing and tweaking numbers just making sure to find what feels good let's look at the Jekyll since these are right there yeah this one seems to be a lot of people's favorites which I'm very teleport well yeah yeah yeah the jackal was actually the last one to kind of come together we were really trying to find a movement ability that would you know slot in with the other ones would be fun to play and useful so the jackal was a labor of love on a lot of people's parts especially concept art we went back to them a few times yeah this was actually I think the only creature that we started with actual creature first yeah we're the movement because they came up with um like the concept art of the jackal and we're like that's true awesome deal exactly so we had to figure out like something that worked and then we're we kind of came up with idea of like since it's made out of sand it can like dissipate and fling forward and then it also has this ability to go through sand portals unfortunately we can't really show you cuz it's outside the demo area that we showed but um they're really cool they carry your momentum as you jump into them so you can blink it into them like be moving fast and you'll be shooting out the next portal at that same speed and we can play some at all sorts of angles so there's really really clever um jumping puzzles and map artists have made that utilize both portals and the blank like you'll go through one portal will get dropped out in the sky you have to play forward to the next platform and stuff like that yeah we don't want to we don't want to spoil the maps right he does really cool things and we always thought he looked really cool so we were hoping that players would like it and there's just overwhelming love for this mountain everyone's saying oh my favorite one is that when it maybe haven't played yet so yeah I think they'd be very pleased with it so one of these questions is um since mass would be usable in central Tyria um will we prevent mounts from jumping to an accessible parts of the map we did a similar pass like how we did to when we brought gliders to court area we did the same kind of thing where we like looked for like map outs areas like jumping puzzles where mounts might like break them and have some like off-limits bases so kind of expect the same kind of safeguards that we did for gliders when we added them every way you can definitely find a visible walls with the bunny though so yeah like we kind of accepted that like adding mounts with these crazy movement abilities like you'll be able to explore the old maps like in ways you never could before and I think that's kind of a cool thing because like you can go through and replay on your all or even just go through and do events on your character and it's kind of looking at those maps with a fresh pair of eyes like you could be like oh I really wish I could've gotten up to that spot somehow and now likely you can really explore the world I remember talking to other teams here internally and then also Donahue a limb when we brought up bringing them to court area it just seemed like we had two right kind of glaring but you know I know Roy had wanted to from the very beginning and we were kind of all in yeah this is something we're gonna do and so when we talked to QA and we talked to some other internal teams were like where are we doing that we're like yeah of course so you know it's gonna break a lot of things yeah I mean they think they had a little bit of a panic panic moment like because of all the testing that happen in the old world but we think it's worth it because like they're fun and I would like feel bad to not be able to bring these back yeah the game's not the same once you have mounts well they're probably glad you at least warned them yeah them time to work on it I think there'll be some cool things like players might have like speedruns now from like level one since they are a map why or account-wide um unlocks just like mastery is so like you'll have it on your lower character like if you start a fresh character you'll be able to play through the core game with just mounts why are you coming before ya opens everything up there will be videos for people timing themselves no fast they can complete the map I hope I did roll completion in whatever way you say that makes me sound like you're going to be making that yeah exactly so someone's asking about it the daredevil will be better in races because of their endurance you don't actually use the mountain action use did players endurance they use the they use the mountain Durance it is a separate well it's sort of separate but it's not it's yeah do you think it so it's a don't hell that's got its own endurance so yeah amounts we want to balance them separately from the player so like each mount has its own health pool as its own endurance bar and those things are separate from the player like um they'll regenerate it like if the player is that low health and they'll they mount up they're not instantly at full health they kind of regen at natural rate that they would have like if they were just out in the world and we want to keep them separate and having separate stats allows us to really balance they engage skills so we don't have to worry about gear we can just like make the mountain gauges feel good regardless of what were you what you're wearing because trying to find ways to combine your player skills with the mount skills yeah for sure cut that yeah we just wanted them it to feel like a different experience while you were on your mounts are just making it have its own stats home bar and all that really played into it we didn't want there to be a confusion like am I still the player or am I on the mount we wanted it to really be like while you're mounted experience is all about like that mountain well and that kind of ties back into the question house earlier about having combat not on mounts so that they wouldn't compete with elite specs or just the natural play of the game Gilbert steel obviously has amazing combat and we don't want to detract from that we want to make a separate experience like I was saying so um you know we also by making him separate from your player stats and isn't that it wouldn't give anyone inherent advantage and it would also make everyone feel that they had something to go to that felt you know something it felt great wow that could not have been better I like how he bounced to you yeah yeah they're real fun interesting ways to jump into combat and all of what you're seeing now is um since we have um unlocked upgrading versions of the move my abilities so like the Raptor or a bunny like that's their max I that they can jump and Springer can jump up really high I believe it's around 1200 distance vertically if I can jump up from so you can get to some really crazy areas so he's that's his progression is that he couldn't jump higher yeah um he gets the first tier is basically more tolerance to fall damage the second tier is you now and knock down enemies with your engage skill the third tier is you jump twice as high and the fourth tier is sharing the reduced to fall damage and that reminds me so something that's kind of cool is the mounts kind of have a bit of synergy with their engage skills so even though we kind of distilled combat into just the engage skill the Raptor with the tail swipe pulls enemies in and this Springer knocks them down so you can have your friend pull them all in and then you can jump in and ball and knock them all down yeah make interesting combos are really good for staying up combat um there's a question about being able to dismount midair that's something we actually don't allow you to do because we thought yeah it's come up a lot unfortunately it would break a lot of things in the world because you could use Springer to jump up really high and then start colliding things like that and we just didn't really want to like open up even more areas like we're breaking the world enough like what areas that you can explore mallets and addy on these crazy movement abilities that kind of like pushes it up like another tier um and when that kind of came up we have already had done our huge pass over the whole world and we would have to definitely do another huge pass opening that up as well you know since we're talking about breaking things I had been talking to Paul about some of the stuff that the fact that this wasn't just implemented completely flawlessly everything was beautiful and smooth and I'm scared if I keep on I'm going to make you stop laughing but Paul had been telling me about some of the various bugs that came in like a player was I had to write a couple of them down like player would mount up and suddenly your portrait instead of your character hey now I'm a raptor oh yeah someone selected have you selected another player and they were mounted you would see like the bunny face and mounted players with brake bars showing everywhere yes yeah that was yeah there's a lot of interesting things so yeah a lot of the tech town which we'll get into in the second segment there's a lot of challenges because of all the new systems that we had to put into the game and just how those interact with the current ones that we have and all like switching between players day and now it's day which I know Paul worked on a lot yeah yeah there's a lot of weird I'm sorry weird stuff yeah you also worked on like dyes - yeah it's something we wanted to add to the mounts because they're big visual piece in the world and we didn't want them to like clash with your different armor sets and we really wanted you to be able to customize a bit and like make mount your own yeah and fashion voice so I know it if you want to talk about that a little bit that was one of the most fun customizable parts of it because we have such a huge die system yeah and implementing that was great but when you and I were talking about that the thing was it could have been a much more difficult and time-consuming process yeah so you went in and smooth that out all through that all through the system and Joel actually has that up because he's wonderful so I'll let you talk through that yeah okay we can show off some of the other amounts - and like what there dies look like as well yeah so the so way we get it up the way we end up setting the die panel up is you've got the you're pushing it off to the right underneath the overlay there so that the you got the mount and the equipment button both a die panel used to be that there is just like one mount slot down underneath where your glider is on the on the equipment side but then you had to equip different mounts in order to read in order to die different mounts and it just was not good flow die one mount then dismount change him out go back into the die panel exactly and this was before we had the hotkeys to like a go to a mountaintop a specific amount as well so you doubt you had to change it in that panel yeah in case you guys don't know we have um optional hotkeys to bind each specific mount so you can kind of like switch even faster between them so if you're riding on the Raptor you can just mount Raptor and immediately mount up um like spring or skimmer stuff like that you can see Joel kind of going through and showing off the different diable spaced on some of the other mounts since you guys haven't seen it before oh that's funny I see a question somebody said can we see a glimpse of the tide channels from around yeah yeah pink rabbit so um so from the demo was out first thing I did with died my Raptor interesting so many people yeah so I got in the AM noon and there were people asking me hey how do you get another like a different color drafters exactly and so so we couldn't have the dev tag and stuff so um I got to just you know help people be like oh you know there's a toggle button in iPad well now so yeah I think everybody appreciates you're not just going around like dev melt yeah sorry yeah also pretty interesting the die for it is actually the clue on the runes yeah it's a bit different from the other ones but makes them for some cool styles I personally love Chloe diable stuff oh yeah yeah yeah it's fashion wars right everything glowing every Laura but yeah I prepare for pink Raptors that's all I'm going to say and pink bunnies are you dying yours pink I will at least for a short time because nice because you have yep you're committed now yep and you know we should do like we all need to do like pacifier colors um Oliver mounts yeah yeah we're probably obligated to yeah that's basically a fire yeah I did not realize that died at the eyes as well I didn't either yeah yes thank you Matt I have strong in my preferences if nothing else I like the bunny the bunny is pretty great yeah it's pretty interesting even internally we found like a pretty wide spread of like what mounts everyone like favors it's pretty interesting to see like we had gone into it thinking like oh this mount might be better or weaker maybe or like people might fog to miss one or over the other one by an all our play tests it seems pretty spread out like across like who seems attracted to like what now I'm like some of its personality or look some is like movement ability um but usually playing around we have really good spread so I'll be interesting to see how that get some life and you know some of the puzzles and exploration elements of the maps some like I was saying earlier some mounts will be more suited to those things but when you're running from event to event or you're hanging out at a world boss you're definitely gonna see people's preference on their mount show up so it'll be probably similar to this play test for you'll just see the whole the whole spectrum of them yeah very much so so I do want to I have actually one more question for you Paul just as we were going through and progressing on the creation of these did it feel like more people were coming and going okay we broke we broke another thing we pretty much just standard development since we were doing something completely new I don't it's hard for me to say ice because I started on the team in April so it's hard I can't speak to anything that happen before that and there was a giant backlog of things we had something like over 350 tasks or something like that it feels really good though to be in our tracking software I'm gonna nerd out as a producer it's just like all that stuff and it just it's like ah where it was Gary for long yep watching done column get bigger and bigger and bigger he's got to feel really good definitely good awesome well I'll tell you what since we are getting kind of late but I don't think anybody's complaining that we're talking about super fun we do have a short video of work in progress and mount development for you guys that I don't think any of us get tired of seeing even though we've all watched it like 40 times yeah it's just like a lot of bugs to wear funny things that happened while we were developing all this is not the Mount development system isn't necessarily all super serious and it doesn't all look dull and boring yeah at the time so we saved some of it for you guys and when we come back we're gonna have three more of the people from our Mount development team thank you guys I'll let you back to work and we will talk to three of you in a few minutes we'll be right back thanks guys [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] all right welcome back let's talk about mounts more let's alright I will have you guys introduce yourselves and talk about what you did for the Matt's team so I'm Joel Helmick I worked on basically all of the programming literally every time I have my fingers and all the things Steve said Nicky I'm also a programmer did some of the motion stuff I did the Manta bounce especially so super happy with that James or if I'm in QA on all mounts stuff thank you I'm sorry we've made games like it's in months man it's interesting trying to put such a complicated system into our game has been quite the task it touches everything let's talk about that how you even got started with this I mean I'm gonna start with attachment system and just let you go because I'm still in awe of what you did yeah I'm sorry I guess we'll do this we'll talk about some of the like the main internal pieces attack and then if you got time like maybe some of the mount specific stuff definitely don't wanna talk about hover because it's super cool so I guess sort of the the first major key piece that I worked on was the ability to attach creatures together we just saw so many maybe not that many but that was definitely a proof of what the system can do and yet the gist of it is you need to take one creature take another creature staple them together hand off controls that the players know controlling the other character and there's a lot more involved than just that but that's the basics yeah you also have to keep track of who's stapled to who so they don't like lose that between say loading screens or that sort of thing then you have to make sure that say when something effects the writer for instance damage that happens from creature attack or whatever it has to attack the mount now so you have to keep track of the fact that the writers mounted and you need to be doing the damage to this thing we actually started system where the writer and the mount were two separate entities in the world they had everything tracked separately and we wound up going to a system where they became essentially just a single object in large part for performance reasons because trying to keep track of having to do everything to both of them at the same time got pretty messy yeah actually we ran with separate having them as separate things or the player despond creature underneath them and then attached for at least a year yeah but by the way there were saying a lot of the early development was done with with two separate creatures stable together yeah then you've also got to make sure that you know positions match up and the animations line up they'll get some good stuff so if you we've got a like a super basic version of it have things attached together from where will the spy your thing oh I know there's like oh my gosh spider mouths mouths together this is not at all what I would have pictured for a spider Mountain yeah it's a spider mouth you yeah spiders like this over mine okay so this is this is just the rudimentary basic we take we take a creature we stick it on another and now he is his collision and such is all attached and obviously that's not quite what we had in mind not exactly so there's there was a great shed where that was actually the Ranger spec though you just got to staple awake creatures to your head and shoulders it's harmful yeah like soul beasts originally there's there's this thought of Oh a little like the creatures attached to you and attacks from your back and stuff like that and did not did not end up there please don't ever spider to me the black one particular was quite special special special is a words especially word that could be used to describe this yes white like I have way too many shows where I bring a dev on here and something happens with spiders and it's interesting how polarizing spiders are specifically and that you have this one group that absolutely adores them and this other group not quite equal in size but pretty surprisingly close that's like oh god no please roll reaction yeah that really is like you just look at it even if you're like oh man I like spiders like whatever they're helpful they kill flies and everything you just look at it like oh my god and they are I just I just need them to help over here so this ends the spider tangent basic example things attaching it's not really showing the hand off of control that I had to get working so for a long time early on development I was using various creatures as well can I take control of some other creature run around with them uses skills and they settled on using something you'll see very shortly as for a lot of my girly development stuff players will enjoy this one yes oh hello this one yes I remember this this is what you use because you could yeah I mean if you can pick anything be a dragon yeah might as well this is actually recreated I used to have old footage that was this and it all got lost in smartdrive disaster but pretend this is old please understand no we do not have a legendary River Mount clarify that did the poor bandit there's I will say my favorite part of wyvern Mount was testing in Queens day land right by the castle there's a couple of fields and there's this one kid in the field and I would always swoop in on my liver and and the kid would be like I'm gonna get you chicken you have no idea what a chicken looks like do you get in our game they get kind of big wing and pick them up that woman's daddy's yeah if if you're gonna test this system that is the way to do it impress presents now so anyway beyond says those chemistry a handoff of control between guy who attached on the thing you're attached to but as you can sang for performance reasons and just general bug issues we eventually ended up with a system where we have a single creature but we had but he has two models and so we like create this model underneath them and it's like oh so there's a raptor and anything it looks like you've got two creatures together it's really just one speaking lies you try the multi creature thing yeah well we want we wanted to do that for we want to make sure that worked in case we ever had a use case for it later and it was the first thing that worked so you've got the multi creature or you've got the attachment system pretty much down and then the movement system this is a whole different system this isn't like part of the attachment system right right so make sure we cover that yeah so the movement system is we basically had to rebuild add on to this whole new system for how do we move these mounts how do you make them like slide around and have weight to the motion may give them time to accelerate have slow returns so we had to build a whole new system for them okay well while we're here we might as well make it more parametrized more data driven easier for designers to go in to mess with later and say I can't actually want to notice all these around a lot resin have to go into code and put some values player movement turns out has a lot of magic numbers errors and add a lot of just little magic pieces of code that will mess with those numbers in ways that you can never quite anticipate so when we set up now we basically had to like Joe was saying build a system that was entirely distinct from that to put all of the control of these movement parameters under design control rather than under the control of some programmer five years ago on a Friday evening working and so that's this yeah I think that was know first oh I was gonna say I I'm fairly sure we would not have been able to do mounts if we had tried to put it into the player movement system it was it would have just caused too many problems I did not look at yeah it would not have looked good part of doing this kind of development right is figuring out when you take old stuff and kind of like spruce it up and then push it back out and but in this case we had to do almost everything just like some scratch camera movement all this stuff yeah I I think I think movement was the first thing first programming tasks that got worked on I think is before I was on the team even I think so I think so those Darin stuff baby yeah you can see a giant stack of moving a parameter system control that we wound up putting in the hands of designers yes every line there is a number that they can tune independently yeah and roy has spent so much time tuning all of these individuals and and the number stream and also they can affect one another so like I took a screen shot of like here's here's an example set of this this parameter modifies this parameter in this way that's like the languor there we go and so you just this is just an example of the matter is those skewers basically so like he's got this one parameter and then like well if somebody another parameter this associate scale it between some min and Max so just give an idea of like this is a very small subset of all the stuff and these are all just like basic movement things that you would expect in just any sort of movement profile stuff like like friction and velocity and like rotational velocity like there's it's it's just a full movement model that we can then do really cool things with because the player movement does not have nearly of that level of like granularity for designers but there's just so much going on with the mount movement that there's a lot more data and then skimmer actually gets more on top of that because all of the other amounts at least get to cling to the ground and to get to use sort of traditional motion for getting around the world whereas skimmer has above and beyond just the movement its own little physics world where there is always essentially a simulated cushion of air pushing up on it from beneath exactly and that has caused its own set of problems climbing mountains was the best one yeah you used to be able to like walk into a vertical surface with the skimmer and then just start hovering and then it would just be like oh you're on a surface and then you just keep ascending and say you could ascend pretty much any vertical surface in our game doesn't do that anymore it's shooting its Ray's down the course the ground where's the ground I want to be this far off the ground and see you could just get a little a little bit over some little edge and it robbed and so even nearly vertical surfaces you had to fix it so yeah getting anywhere in the world on skimmer while I adore it personally do you guys want to do you have more stuff on the movement system or do you want to move on and talk about the animation system a little bit hmm something specific on movement there's no there's some amount specific things we could talk about but they still find uh there were some questions about like I give the individual movement things that I saw like Jackal how do you target the jackal - ah so yeah well they also kind of ties into scripting which again to it but Michael sure let's talk about Jaguar I don't want to hop on the jackal so the jackal doesn't think we're kill he always aims in camera direction and so it's just that is how you aim it you can you can jump and then do a 180 and then teleport immediately that's where I'm from you have to be really fast though it's it's really like I feel like gravity rules us all yeah although when you when you fire it through the gravity turns off except because the sweets also like secretly that's not actually teleport it's not actually tilt or wolf I'm sorry it just goes really fast secrets I mean you know I'm a developer so what you're saying is the wolf moves faster than the eye can see that's somehow less cool right cool is teleport wolves innocent yeah there's some like camera tricks to where the camera sits there and doesn't move nonsense no this makes it cooler no it looks about the end effect is these help words yeah although to be fair I suspect it would get very annoyed if you call it a wolf he possibly true always looks turned to me I imagined it saying like jackal in this very huffy sorry an annoyed voice I can absolutely hear that I feel like he's perpetually in a state of mild annoyance just kind of a little huffy with the world in general look at this sorry oh I was gonna say I feel like that's because he's the only one of the four mounts that is not like a natural amount he was brought into existence as evidenced by the runes and the sand so he's like just kinda great why do you have to bring me alive look at what I have to work with to deal with these people sit on my back and calling me a wolf okay I'm just getting one we're on that actually do I mention the runes for a second I don't know like it's it's kind of interesting Laura maybe people just want to find that up for themselves I think they should find out for I think yes yeah it's okay it's cool or that knowing our player base they'll figure they'll find it out in like 30 minutes after the game all right now I'm gonna beat now I'm gonna be watching after we launch and see who figures it out yeah I'm gonna say it's a it answers the question that players have already been asking okay okay now I'm gonna ask you guys questions later certain specific players okay let's talk about the animation system then sure as you can see they sure have animations yeah yep we should we should call out that the animation team - oh my god solutely stellar job it's you know their artists are really good yeah I never would have known I believe the artists were Scott Ron Trevor and Brian Brian yeah and well they're the animators yeah yeah oh yeah the animators and they did just absolutely stellar job it was I said near near that group and it was really great seeing like the mounts come together like the rough animation into like like the Raptor the the wear it like tries to shake you off yeah I remember the first one in yeah I love the right after I first went in we had a play test like a couple days later an internal plate to us and everybody was like oh have you seen this new rap doll raptor idol like wow it's so cool it's it's really fun and watching that it has come from it's come from that one of the work-in-progress videos that we saw where it was just a completely emotionless creature sliding along the ground to what we have now it's it's really neat seeing that progression I mean we still see that sometimes when things break well the animation system is when you introduced me to blend trees yeah yeah so like it's very so we in order to like to fully support what the animators needed to do we had to add a system which is new in new to gaming but new to our game of blend trees and you want to bring up a picture I can just people have so this is like this is part of the Raptors moving blend tree and so he does is like hey I'm going this fast I should go this direction then I'm going like this fast I should go on between these two sides and so at that leaf knows that the bombs are animations that you should be playing picked from and so the existing system we had in the game was much simpler it was just animation and transitions between animations and now we have this much more controlled data-driven system that the animators can use to precisely get exactly what they want exactly the time and they want it gives them a lot more flexibility and lets us do stuff like the waiting when the Raptor is running along like for example when you take a hard turn with with this chimera yeah you can get that kind of that lean blended onto the the animation cleanly goes between turns and streets and stuff there's a lot more going on under it and what you see so mm-hmm thank you guys very much for this so many bug oh yeah lots there's been lots of blunt reissues just animations one thing new system yeah it's gonna happen so what were some of the good ones I guess for you those are bad ones but well I mean honestly there is no like there wasn't too many good blend tree bugs I not taking it off when you got off of your mount leads to some occasion interesting oh yes yeah that was we'd have like animations playing on the wrong sorts of things yeah players trying to do like Raptor animations which never turns out as well as you would hope unfortunately I want to say that certainly most common things that were just like the animation pops and stuff yeah it's it's supposed to blend nicely between tree animations and said yeah like you'd run forward on the Raptor and then you'd stop and instead of blending too into the stop it would just instantly go to idle Joel Joel has in particular been dealing with a lot of little pops in the blend trees and I've watched him just goes to pruder film style I'm like if you watch it this frame right here I've never watched too many wouldn't do those videos in fairness a frame stopping and in fairness that is how QA also handles looking at those mounts so hopefully we will have not caught all of them pixel our patience is the takeaway I really admire you guys for working through all of these tiny little things to make us get what we've got here do you want to talk about how having some of the stuff client-side yeah I think the the client-side scripting stuff is always yes it's it's yes and also client like the client-server interactions on mounts have led to some really really funny bugs so I think my favorite which is one that Joel found actually do you want to talk about the quaternion bug okay so there's the thing where somebody talks about it if you had like high latency and oh yeah yeah if you had high latency and you were just like did a movement skill your amount what just are freaking out just like all over the place yeah it would just because there was something going on with with that one is actually when you got your framerate got low enough yeah those a shoot and then try to correct and go so its angles its angular velocity would just blow out it's it's actually that's less visually impressive than you'd think you're just kind of this lair of twitching yeah you got to be they're kind of things it's been so fast you can't even barely tell like that you're spinning it just it's one of those cartoons where you see like the head peek out for a moment you see my arm over here the fight cloud yeah yeah [Laughter] yeah but if you want to talk about that like scripting and stuff so if you notice when you use abilities and things on the mounts there's no doesn't appear to be any latency at all it's not like we've been magically gotten rid of lag it's totally there but we're hiding it same way that normal motion is all done sort of client-side in the report it up in the server validates it and we're doing the same thing now with these like when you hover for example and the decline is just saying okay I'm gonna run this stuff locally and then tells the server button server this too but we wanted something that wasn't just super hard-coded when you push space for on the skimmer it does this thing we wanted a more customizable script system like what we did with the animations like what we do with motion and so we Brandon who did this first I think his brain is riveted isn't yeah he uh so you know we need we need like a full scripting system that wrote on the client of immerse itself on the server and so internally we call them content functions a good think we good name but it works it works it's good enough programmer talk yes so we have like in example screenshot of like here's what a stack of content functions looks like it's like think it's the Raptor engage scale this guy words words yeah it's just like it just runs through here all the things I do here's some conditions like oh if this is true other thing but it's a good indication of how much is going on and the the Raptor engage skill is actually for interesting because it's it's or all the engagements really because they're they're a blend of these content function things these client-side scripts and traditional skills because we you can't deal damage from a client-side script so you still have to ask the server hey I need you to run the skill that does damage so it'll do all the other stuff all the motion and everything and then a certain point says I need you to fire damage here we trust the players with walking around the world nice but we don't trust the players to not tell us that they just did twenty thousand damage to you know that champion there yeah yeah there have been some I I don't want to say hilarious here because my life for the last couple of months has been trying to make sure that the client and the server stay in sync on these things turns out that whenever you build a programming language people will program in it and the moment that we added branches to this for instance is my Raptor on the ground can i if i can only do my engage scale while the raptors on the ground the client and the server might actually disagree for a few moments about whether your raptors in fact on the ground and for a long time they were doing different things because they just decided to take different branches at that one if statement in the worst feeling like the client would've run it in the server wouldn't just just would not run it at all they end up with some totally divergent state with one sites dis mad at the other sites not for example we ended up with sunny and terrible fun visual bugs like like you would see you'd be on the jackhole i need to blink forward and you it would look normal to you you'd be like oh I did my blink and somebody nearby would just see you blink in place and then the Raptor would just tween forward to where it's supposed to be yeah what's funny to see in development on games yeah and actually there's a question on shout that I would love to tackle right now are there any tips on Mount really and things we should test during the stress test these sort of disagreements between server and client we think are one of the things that's actually causing a lot of these of issues that we hit during the PvE weekend so basically my suggestion would be just try to do things at unusual times try and engage you know the moment that you also try and do a jump with the Raptor or when you land yeah try and do a jump and engage on land try and you know engage just as you're getting on your Raptor try to use a movement skill once you've been knocked off by an enemy exactly a ton of the bugs and not just in this in any system bugs and systems tend to come from corner cases where players just get into a state that you're not expecting or actions happen at a time that you're just not expecting it to happen and so exactly and so to the extent we can generate those that'd be the best thing for this RSS I think awesome is a good question well is there anything else on the systems we could talk for hours about yeah as far as high level I think we'd kid hit must have big points because talking about the stress test it's coming up in 40 minutes I'm excited to see the the deluge player supported or player submitted reports yeah I just looked at the clock and I was like oh it's custom to look terrified sorry it's the it's the QA paradox right you hate bugs because that means that there's a bug but also you love them so much better to find it now exactly over 20 seconds so yeah I I do not want bugs on I don't want bugs on Mount September 22nd yeah I don't I'm sure there will be because impossible to make any peace they'll be my fault but it's impossible to predict every single edge case right like the reason why we're doing the stress test is because we can't predict everything that's going to happen so like when stuff is robust internally we have to go okay well now we're playing through it and we're not really seeing anything that major and it's mostly like little minor cases now it's time to go give it to like tens of thousands of people and have them completely destroy everything and tell us that what's wrong right yeah more eyes are better than less yes so we do we need your guys's eyes stress test does start in about 40 minutes and you'll want to log in create a new demo character and find all kinds of bugs for you guys to play with yes yes please we want them now and not later on it does start at 2 p.m. Pacific so good luck you guys thank you you guys have fun keep in mind your stress test stress test means that performance issues might be a thing please don't be shocked and appalled when it happens this this one is not to show off how pretty the world is although the world is still really beautiful and there we have made many book fixes since the last which have I mean not all of them have made it live also I think I love the major ones I think we work every day that's amazing alright well I'm gonna do I've got two more things and then we'll get ready for this stress test you always look so you just look like you're plotting things when you do that we are getting ready for path fires launch in three weeks here at ArenaNet and I know we've been talking about this over the past couple of weeks we love fine who has the Guild Wars 2 merch store has been getting ready for path of fire like we are we've been showing you some stuff on guild chat we've been sharing new things in there Guild Wars 2 store as they add them and they have a new thing today which is the Raptor mount t-shirt which I kind of love I thought you guys might like that they all look so happy oh good this has just been in WeLoveFine store for a couple of hours and we are working on adding more hopefully those will be in soon but right now this one's got a t-shirt and to believe a pullover sweatshirt yeah those do they deliver I have not placed my order yet so few weeks over there in a pacifier t-shirt oh that is true Mac that is and also our if you're going to PAX West our audio panel behind the sound of video games is tomorrow at PAX West in the Hydra theater at 2:30 Pacific time if you can't attend we're live-streaming it here on the official Guild Wars 2 twitch channel so set the preview for that yesterday it's a Mary Jo I did fantastic I love talking about all the different things they do yeah they're so much fun and they just get to play with weird toys all day long and I mean in the mounts video they shut off that's a really good really great sound effect and really creative way back so they're gonna be doing that live tomorrow at their packs panel be there if you can if you can't watch it here on our Guild Wars 2 twitch channel otherwise we will see you next week for the last pre path of fire Gil Chet thank you guys thank you all for coming and spending part of your workday here and thank you guys for watching guilt yet we'll see you next week bye
- Guild Chat Episode 53, Mounts in Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire™ on ArenaNet's official channel on YouTube