Guild Chat - Episode 35
Guild Chat - Episode 35
- Title
- Salvation Pass Story
- Host
- Rubi Bayer
- Guests
- Bobby Stein
Andrew Gray - Date
- March 12, 2016
- Official video
- YouTube
The 35th episode of Guild Chat aired on March 12, 2016.
"Host Rubi Bayer is joined by guests Bobby Stein and Andrew Gray to discuss the story behing[sic] the Salvation Pass raid, digging into the Guild Wars roots."
Transcription[edit]
Introduction (0:26)[edit]
Rubi Bayer: Hi everybody. Happy Friday and welcome back to Guild Chat. I'm your host Rubi and we're going to be talking about the lore and story inside our newest raid wing today with the White Mantle. Fair warning, spoilers ahoy coming up. I'm with a couple of our game designers, Bobby and Andrew. I'll let you guys introduce yourselves for our newer members of the audience. If you guys are new, thank you for coming. And what do you guys do here at ArenaNet?
Andrew Gray: I'm Andrew Gray, I'm a game designer.
Bobby Stein: I'm Bobby Stein, I'm a writer, you know, narrative person, narrative lead.
Rubi: I wanna see your business card because I want that —
Bobby: It's changed, you know, titles and everything change here all the time so.
Rubi: I know! It's like crossed out and things written up there.
Bobby: When we last saw my name in credits anywhere, that was my title, so — But yeah, I've been working on the raids for a while now.
Rubi: So we released our latest raid wing this week, and what day was it when someone got to the end? It took a little while.
Bobby: I think it was roughly about a day later.
Rubi: Yeah, it wasn't like someone immediately went in and trampled everything.
Bobby: I know the first two encounters were cleared relatively quickly. I'm a terrible judge at this by the way, because I'm still trying to work up my skills so I can beat them with a team, but some really good players we're able to get though to the final boss within the first day, and I think the first clear was the next day. But yeah, was watching videos and checking the forums and Reddit and everything and it was really exciting to watch.
Rubi: It was, it was really fun.
Rubi: Well, we had talked a lot in the weeks coming up about Slothasor, can you say it please?
Bobby: Laughs Slothasor!!
Rubi: Thank you, it just entertains me, I didn't tell you I was gonna ask you to do that, I'm sorry.
Rubi: We talked a lot about Slothasor a lot in the weeks leading up, we kinda didn't want to spoil you on the White Mantle, but now that they're out there, we gonna go ahead and talk about the history about these guys. Because if you've been around GuildWars1 or GuildWars2 for a while, you know that these are a long running group and these guys have been around for a very long time. Why don't you guys talk a little bit about the history of the White Mantle, as they've been around in Tyria for so long.
Bobby: Sure, would you like me to start?
Andrew: Sure.
History of the White Mantle (2:43)[edit]
Bobby: Oh, okay, so for people who have played GuildWars1, Prophecies, it's kinda known as. But yeah, the first GuildWars game the White Mantle were a pretty big part of that story. What I would recommend, if people haven't played GuildWars1, hey, go buy a copy, its probably pretty cheap. But yeah, so that's the first time they've been introduced and at any rate, without spoiling any of that story stuff. You know, though a series of events you encounter them and some of their enemies and a bigger plot gets uncovered and whatnot. You do end up kind of at odds with them.
Rubi: They seemed like such nice helpful people at first.
Andrew: Yeah, they start off on the right foot. They're protecting villages from the undead and such, but then they kinda turn out to be not so nice.
Bobby: Yeah, and even after the events of that, when we were doing things like the bonus mission pack, players actually got a chance to play as Saul, who was, you know, their founder, and see a little bit more of a different side of them. You know, as everybody knows, right, there's two sides to every story, so that was a really good opportunity to look at maybe, you know, people outside the White Mantle would probably look at him as the boogeyman and them as being really awful people. Probably within their own ranks, they wouldn't be twirling their mustaches all day. They probably don't necessarily think that they're all that bad, and to be fair, they had done some things throughout history that maybe weren't so bad. They pushed the Charr out, so um... but obviously-
Rubi: And there's some people that might feel ambivalent about that too (laughs) that's a whole other issue.
Bobby: Well, obviously Krytan royalty probably doesn't have a very high opinion of them, but, you know, people who were kind of caught in the crossfire, you know, if the White Mantle were to do things that were beneficial to them, like driving out invaders from their home, they might actually look at them as not so bad. So, one of the, I guess, interesting things just that we're trying to do as we put a little bit of a spotlight on them is show different levels of or different attitudes of people within that organization. You know, they have a history of using kind of hired help, so some people maybe are just in it for the money or the advantage that they get for rolling with a group like this, whereas others might be true believers of whatever cause. So, I think what we're trying to do, and this is not something that will happen all at once, but we did it in the original Guild Wars, I think where it makes sense in Guild Wars 2, we would want to kind of show a little bit more dimension to them.
Rubi: Yeah, let's look at a couple of these. You mentioned Saul, and in Guild Wars 2, Saul D'Alessio is a name you might know as the founder. So, who is he, and how did—let's go ahead a little bit into who he was and how he founded the White Mantle because that was a first Guild Wars thing.
Andrew: Yeah, so, um, before he found the Mursaat, he was sort of a drunkard, a swindler, not really on the right path, so to speak.
Rubi: Not the most useful of people.
Andrew: Uh, legend has it he met the Mursaat in the jungle, and they showed him the light, and they told him that they were gods and that they would lead Kryta to better times. And for a time-
Andrew: (wired earpiece falls out) This thing keeps falling off, I'm done with it.
Rubi: You're having a problem (laughs). I'll tell you if there's anything you need to know.
Andrew: Cool, yeah thanks.
Andrew: And then for a while, that was true. I mean, like Bobby mentioned, the Charr did invade, and, with the help of their Unseen Gods, the White Mantle were able to repel the Charr. So, one could make a very strong argument that if it weren't for the White Mantle, things wouldn't be very good in Kryta. It would probably be a lot more Charr-y these days than it is.
Rubi: Again, some people might have different feelings about that. Just saying.
Andrew: Yeah, no, I know.
Bobby: My player character would have a problem with what he just said.
Andrew: Well, you know. It's...
Rubi: Andrew's like, 'shut up.' (laughs)
Bobby: (laughs)
Andrew: The Charr are... you know. The Charr.
Bobby: The Charr are awesome.
Andrew: (laughs)
Andrew: So, yeah. Saul, at the end of that battle, sort of vanished from the world. Questionable, where, but he's gone. And then from there, he was sort of more just a figurehead, a symbol. They've obviously named a lot of stuff after him, and it was- A lot of stuff, after him. (laughs)
Rubi:: (laughs)
Bobby: (laughs)
Andrew: But from there, it was Dorian that took over. And he was the Confessor that you encountered at the beginning of Prophecies. And that was actually- The first time players actually saw them was when he was in charge. The Bonus Mission Pack was chronologically before that but was released after as sort of a flashback.
Rubi: And the Bonus Mission Pack helped lead us toward Guild Wars 2.
Andrew: Yeah.
Bobby: Yeah, it filled in some stories that I know we couldn't- there was not really the opportunity to show in the games, but, because it was an important part, of like the history, it gives you a bit more perspective on these characters. It was a really cool project. Didn't you work on it too? I know I did, and some other folks who were here way back.
Andrew: I think I tested on it.
Bobby: Yeah, it was really cool. Plus, the other thing too, one of our animators, Chuck, was working on the cinematics in the Bonus Mission Pack and we had a lot of hands-on, trying to push them a little harder. The Guild Wars 1 cinematics were kind of tame in comparison to what we can do now in Guild Wars 2. But at any rate, he was so excited because you know, for Saul D'Alessio's thing at the very end, but also for... oh god I'm trying to remember, there was that fight on the bridge, it was...
Andrew: Oh, Trioso? (transcriber's note: unknown word, but he could be referring to the cutscene that plays in the Bonus Pack Mission passed the stone bridge where three named Mursaat arrive)
Bobby: Yeah, yeah, like all that. But anyway, total tangent. One of the cool things too were, where possible in the raids, we can kind of dig a little deeper into the side stories, things that maybe we had kind of introduced in the game's lore but maybe didn't explore as deeply as we wanted. But because it's not integral to the main plots that we have planned, we can actually go take a little bit of a side turn. And these are things that will obviously flesh out the world and the story of the game. But, if you don't play it, it's not like there's a critical thing that you might miss, and we'll definitely try and give you other ways to catch up. And we're still just kind of discussing what form or forms that may take. We'll have to see.
Rubi: We'll look at that down the road. I'm looking forward to that.
History of Kryta (9:36)[edit]
Rubi: Alright, so that's kind of the history of the White Mantle, and how we brought them in. Where in Kryta was the Bonus Mission Pack that brought us into Guild Wars 2?
Andrew: Oh! It was Guild Wars Beyond.
Rubi: Guild Wars Beyond. Then, we come into Guild Wars 2. This has been a while. Okay, everybody, homework, everybody has to play this again.
Andrew: Yes. I made a lot of that content so you totally should go play it again! Not biased at all.
Bobby: (laughs)
Rubi: I told you today, after we talked about all of this, all this time I was like, 'it's been a while, I need to do that.'
Bobby: Oh yeah, actually. So, the cinematic at the end of the raid touches upon the things that you had worked on... so, tell us all about it.
Rubi: Further justifying a three-crasher course.
Bobby: (laughs)
Andrew: So, yeah, War in Kryta in, I believe it's a couple years after the events of Prophecies. The White Mantle have certainly lost a lot of their grip on Kryta, but they are still the ruling party. It's the Shining Blade and Queen Salma who are making a push to reclaim the country for the Krytan Monarchy. And you see, throughout the release of that, public opinion starts to shift. It's sort of like, as they desperately try to cling onto power, they get more and more sort of aggressive, and start really showing the side of themselves that the player character had seen many a times, but the average Krytan still would've been not very aware of.
Rubi: Right, right.
Andrew: Suddenly they're going around with brute squads and murdering villagers and farmers and all sorts of not nice things.
Rubi: Sieging Lion's Arch.
Andrew: Yeah, and then they ended up sieging Lion's Arch. Throughout it, the veil sort of lifted. You can kind of start seeing, 'Okay, these guys are maybe not pure evil, but they certainly are willing to perform evil acts to meet their goals.' But again, like we said earlier, a lot of their goals are good. I mean, keeping Titans at bay, that's a thing to do. Not letting your country be invaded by an invading force...
Andrew: (looks at Bobby) ...of questionable, you know, niceness.
Bobby: (laughs)
Andrew: These are all things that are pretty good things to do. Those are good goals.
Rubi: They are. So that kind of touches on, 'Are the White Mantle bad guys?' Because we view them and we treat them in our game from the player character perspective as generally evil. They're adversaries, but maybe not entirely. It's kind of not black and white.
Bobby: It depends on who you ask, really. That's true of anything in the world. Two sides, separate story. If you were to ask by someone who was captured by them or people who work for them, they're not gonna have a very pleasant outlook on these people. But, if you find somebody within their organization that really believes in what they're doing, maybe they're willing to overlook some of the questionable or bad things that they're doing because they think that the end goal justifies the means.
Rubi: End justifies the means, yeah.
Andrew: The people in power in Guild Wars 2 are gonna be inclined to not mention any of the positive aspects of the White Mantle. Probably isn't well known that they fought back the Charr or anything like that because, 'why would we want to put these people that are our enemies up on a pedestal?'
Rubi: 'We don't want to sway sympathies.'
Bobby: Yeah, and actually you had brought up a good point earlier before the show. In the core game, there's not a lot of information on the White Mantle because it mostly wasn't pertinent to the story unless you were playing a Human character and you wanted to know about your parents, you know, if you choose that biography. And you are hearing about them from people who are tasked with kind of keeping them down, right? The Shining Blade. They're largely aware of what may be going on in the world. They can't be everywhere all the time, so sometimes the player will stumble onto something that they're not aware about or, you know. The case being, 'In the Raid, why isn't the Shining Blade there?' Well, why would they be out in the jungle, taking care of this, when they've got things to worry about at home?
Rubi: Right.
Bobby: And even the human player character in that story kind of comes out of it like, 'What are you talking about? This was just kind of like a tale, like the boogeyman,' right? Why would the royalty want people to be well informed about some embarrassing parts of their history?
Rubi: Yeah, why would you want to make a huge deal out of that.
Bobby: Well, obviously if the king fled, because he didn't have the stones to fight a war...
Andrew: (laughs)
Rubi: It's true.
Bobby: ...and somebody else came in and did what he should've done, that's kind of embarrassing to the royal line. So, rather than say 'well, you know, we had disagreements but they at least did something good,' they're just not either gonna talk about it, or, if they do, they're not going to be talking about these people in the nicest light. So, realistically, kind of keeping it all hush-hush seems pretty reasonable. It seems like a pretty logical thing for somebody to do.
The White Mantle in Guild Wars 2 (15:02)[edit]
Rubi: So here's what I'm wondering about. We've got all this history in first Guild Wars, and you're bringing this into Guild Wars 2. I mean, you kind of knew where you were going with the White Mantle. How did you figure out the balance of weaving them into the story? They've been in the story since the core game launched back in 2012. They've been there, they've been subtle, how did you find that balance between making it a part of the story where it was noticeable enough for people to be aware, 'yeah these guys ran off and hid in the jungle, they're still around,' but it's not overwhelming and it's not in your face.
Bobby: You know there’s hints of that throughout the game in the open world in, you know, some of the events and the ambient things that happen in certain maps. But then when we were working on the Living World story, we decided to tap into that because it made sense.
Rubi: Yeah.
Bobby: And, through that, we’ve extended the story into the raids because it’s kind of like a natural progression, and this all goes back to things that happen in Guild Wars 1. I mean, after the White Mantle were largely driven off, you know, whoever didn’t die had to go somewhere and either re-assimilate in a society, or kind of go off and do their own thing. And what we’re showing in the raids is, “This is where some of them went off and did their own thing.”
Andrew: Actually, directly after the war in Kryta, in the Winds of Change release, you see a couple of them actually, they have become cell swords, which is kind of a flips and say, “You’re usually hiring bandits and stuff,” but, if you talk to them in that, they actually, you can see that they’re basically just trying to get funds, get power and rebuild themselves. They’re still true to their cause, so there are survivors after the war in Kryta.
Rubi: They’re still there.
Andrew: That are, you know, basically like, “We need to regroup, build our strength,” and in, you know, “Come back one day.”
Rubi: “Let’s see what we can do,” yeah.
Andrew: Yeah.
Rubi: You’ve mentioned that they’ve always been there. Do you want to give a couple of those examples for people in the, for people in Guild Wars 2 now?
Bobby: Oh I mean…
Rubi: Where can we find what are some of those things that are hanging?
Bobby: Yeah, probably the more obvious one Is the thing that people have been playing since Season 2, so, and I think it’s Brisban Wildlands – there’s a fort, I think it’s…
Bobby and Andrew together: Fort Vandal.
Andrew: Yeah.
Bobby: Um, there was a lot of talk around the fort, if you were to either talk to certain NPCs or listen to things that they were saying, they would kind of mention certain things. After the fort gets, um, kind of shattered or broken open because of Mordremoth’s rising power, you’re able to get in there and explore a little bit, and you know, go through, can’t go through their stuff.
Rubi: (laughs)
Andrew: (laughs)
Bobby: And then also check out things like a busted Asura gate that was there, it’s like, “Where did it go?” and you know, we weren’t really very clear as to where it could have gone, and you know, gates aren’t static things. I mean, generally, in the game you encounter one, it tells you where it’s going to take you and that’s where it takes you, but you know, lore wise they could go anywhere. They can be retuned and recalibrated. So the, the idea is, “Okay where did they go?” and again, we’ve hinted before, in the game and in previous games, that you know, they may have headed toward the jungle. So, when you actually get to Salvation Pass, you kind of put two and two together that, “Hey, maybe this is a place where some of these people were going?”. Why? Well, because they’ve been setting up here for a while, and if they really need to retreat into a safer place that’s out of the way, to do whatever it is that they’re doing, um, that’s where the bill.
Saul D’Alessio’s tomb (18:26)[edit]
Rubi: Yeah here’s this thing. And Saul’s tomb is…?
Bobby: Oh yeah.
Rubi: Somewhere…?
Bobby: Yeah.
Rubi: I just totally forgot where.
Andrew: Harathi… Hinterlands…?
Bobby: I think it’s Harathi Hinterlands. And I forget which sector, map sector it is. But yeah, there’s… This is cool, so again, for people who like to explore or maybe you know, spoiler warning. Um, there is a temple, for lack of a better word, I don’t know, there’s like a ruined area where there’s a tomb or like a, I don’t know, casket. What would you even call a crypt? I don’t know, words are hard.
Rubi: All of the above.
Bobby: So, at any rate, when you…
Rubi: (laughs) When you think you’re not a writer. (Need to confirm this line, maybe someone hears better of what exactly was being said?)
Bobby: (laughs)
Andrew: (laughs)
Bobby: Yeah, I pretend, uh…
Rubi: You do really well.
Bobby: Oh, thanks. Um, you go and you find, you know, this item or object, you know, where you expect a body to be in, but you can’t get at it. And if you go to, I think it’s a statue, that’s nearby and, I don’t remember, if you kneel or if you do something else… Anyway, you do these, kind of, sort of easter eggy things to create a chain of events, but if you run back into the room, you’ll end up fighting a, “Tomb guardian”, for lack of a better word. But what you realize is, that you would expect the body of Saul D’Alessio to be here, but, “Hey, guess what?” – it’s not. People don’t know whatever happened to the guy. But…
Rubi: Oh hey.
Bobby: It doesn’t, you know, you can have a gravestone or a tomb and not have anything in it because it’s a monument to something. But there is that open question, “Well, whatever happened to the guy?”. I mean there are a lot of, I think, questions, that we’ve introduced throughout the years that I think, um, where it makes sense we’ll answer those questions. And, you know, just a disclaimer, we’re not going to answer every open question that there has ever been. But, I think we want to look at where we can tie things up. So, for example, the… The Asura gate in Brisban, if you play the raid and you put two and two together, it’s pretty clear that that’s where they were connected. You know, between the two, so.
Rubi: Yeah.
Bobby: So, little things like that where it makes sense, we’ll make that connection for people.
Rubi: That’s funny you talked about that, um… About the spirit in the tomb not being Saul. I did that. I mean it’s been a year or two since I, as a player, stumbled across that and did it, and I remember we were thinking, “Oh that’s really weird that that’s not him”. And, I don’t remember if we’ve looked into it, if we, you know, thought about it too much, but I just now as you were saying that… Because yesterday we were like, “Oh yeah, Saul’s tomb – we should totally talk about that”. And just now as you were saying that, I was like, “Oh… I don’t remember if we thought about that or not,” but yeah… Now I put two and two together.
Bobby: It was empty, what a twist.
Andrew: He was beamed up at the end of the Bonus Mission Pack and never seen again…
Bobby: (laughs) “Beamed up.”
Rubi: You’ve heard it here first you guys.
Bobby: I don’t think we had an effect for that back then.
Andrew: (laughs)
Bobby: (laughs)
Rubi: Beaming up confirmed.
Andrew: “Defeated.”
Bobby: (laughs) He went back to his home planet.
Andrew: (laughs)
Rubi: (laughs) Oh noo, oh nooo…
Bobby: Poochie the dog.
Everyone: (laughs)
Rubi: Oh my gosh, everything… Just, a whole new planet just opened up, thanks guys. Bobby, you have stuff to do now.
Bobby: Should I leave? Is that my cue?
Andrew: (laughs)
Ruby: You look terrified.
Bobby: What does this mean?
Ruby: Like you just have to follow through on this random thing that Andrew said.
Raid Story (21:40)[edit]
Ruby: So we talked a little bit earlier. I have a couple of things that I wanted to ask you guys about. Probably you... more that Bobby's like, 'Oh no, why are you doing this to me?'
Bobby: Wait, what?
Ruby: Um, so we were talking about the story and how this is kind of a tangential story inside the raid.
Bobby: (laughs) Sorry, you. Nevermind.
Ruby: I'm thinking back to a conversation we had before we went live, and now everything is ruined. Um, a story before we um—
Bobby: That explains the Freudian slip. (laughs)
Ruby: This might be the third time the show has broken me.
Bobby: Yeah,
Andrew: Come on, children.
Ruby: Great. Now Andrew's the most mature person in the room.
Bobby: Glad we've got the youngest person in the room trying to set the old people straight.
Andrew: (laughs)
Ruby: Okay, um. Hey, story of the raid!
Bobby: Oh, yeah.
Ruby: So what if? Is this like cursory? Is this a one-off? Is this like all we're gonna see?
Bobby: So, all right, uh, let's see. How can I...
Ruby: Because what if you're not a raider and you like the story?
Bobby: So Forsaken Thicket is meant to be three wings that form a story— That is a story that we wanted to tell. And, you know, it is meant to be a story interior that we've wanted to tell, but, you know, it will enrich the game in a way. But I really don't want to talk about what comes after it, because I'd rather—
Ruby: Please don't spoil everything.
Bobby: Yeah, no. I mean, I think what is hard for some people, when they see something that comes out that, you know, either they want to get into it or they can't, or whatever is, they don't really know where we're going with it, where it ends, or if it's a dead end. Is this the only place where I'm gonna get this?
Ruby: Yeah, yeah.
Bobby: Or will this mean that we're headed in a particular direction? I can't tell you any of those things, even though I know the answer to it, because realistically, well, what fun would there be in that, right? But I think one thing that may put people's minds at ease a little bit would be, you know, A. We're listening and reading everything that you post, so continue to post, you know, constructive criticism wherever you can about the different segments of the game. You know, do you like what you're seeing in the raids? Do you not like it? Obviously, you know, I'm very interested in how we're portraying the story and the lore in the raids. So I want to know what people think of it— what's working and what doesn’t. But also, if you have concerns about certain things, let us know. I mean, I can't make any promises, but I definitely know that everybody here is passionate about what they do. We want to make a game that people are enjoying and will play for years to come. So, yeah. Let us know how we're doing. Um, and, sorry. To answer your question—
Ruby: No, no, no, that's fine.
Bobby: I would just say, be patient, see how everything develops. And, you know, there's an entire wing that has yet to be experienced that I'm personally very excited about. It's, it's super cool. We just actually finished doing... I need to go and do a couple of revisions. But showed it to Leah today. She was, you know, pretty pleased, and I'm excited about it, and the team is excited. You know, a lot of collaboration again, the stuff that we tried in wing two. You know, with like the players talking and stuff like that. We're gonna do a little bit more to that and push a little harder again, you know. And uh—
Ruby: Well, the thing that I've said before, and keep saying, is we're going to keep coming to work. We're not going to go home today at six o'clock and just never cont— we're not done. We're going to keep making more—
Bobby: Yeah, yeah. There's a lot more in store, is about all I can say. You know, there's some good stuff coming ahead, so I would hope that people would, you know, be patient and hopefully trust us.
Ruby: And know that more is coming.
Bobby: But I know trust is a hard thing to manage sometimes, so—
Raid Experiences (25:30)[edit]
Ruby: And in the meantime, I do know that I really appreciate, as someone who isn't like a hardcore raider— I'm so glad I was done with that. Someone who's not a hardcore raider— I do appreciate that you guys managed to create a way, if I still want to get in there and explore and run around. Do you want to, the people who haven't seen this before, do you want to kind of explain how you can go with a friend who's finished the raid?
Bobby: Oh, yeah. And I actually ended up doing... So I've been trying to clear wing one, you know, Spirit Vale. It's hard. I'm not a great—
Ruby: Well, it's a raid. Yeah.
Bobby: I'm pretty much the epitome of casual, right? I like to go in. I'm looking for map completion. I beat the story— all the stories that we put in there. But definitely, I want to get more into raiding and fractals, right? Just because I think if I'm going to keep playing the game, I don't want it to just be routine. I want to get better at how I'm playing the game. And raids definitely encourages that, or you basically, you have to be.
Andrew: Pretty much mandated.
Bobby: Yeah, so. But I'm lucky because I'm surrounding myself with people who are patient or showing me, and sometimes that's hard for people. I get that. I mean, I can relate to it. So the cool thing, though, about the raids—and I don't know if this is unique to our game or if all games do it. I'll be honest, I'm not a raider in any other MMOs, so—but the cool thing is, once you beat it and you've cleared the raid for the week before it resets, you can go back in and it is cleared. So a lot of the optional things and some of the achievements that you could do that were not necessarily related to combat, you can go in with a group or by yourself and take your time just exploring, interacting with things, making observations, trying to see how it all fits together. And the cool thing is, because you're not being attacked all the time—and there's a, there's a couple of like trash mobs that might still be there, but for the most part, it's clear—you can start to look at, if you're even interested in, kind of how things are built in the game. You know, this is almost like, hey, you know, why did they put these things here? What does it all mean? You can sit and analyze that stuff. Because a lot of times, you know, when we're working on the team, you know, Crystal and Jason and Tirza and Tammy, like we all get together—everybody on the team—and we talk about, hey, narratively, 'What are we—what’s going on in this area? What are the things that we want to tell overtly or covertly?' You know, some of it is just a simple prop placement that gets your mind wandering so that you start to understand. Sometimes we'll call it out. Your character will look at it and be like, 'Hey, what's this wall doing here?' Well, that's a pretty obvious call out. But in other cases, we might just put a prop in a particular area or place that is meant to get you to think about what happened before I got here. It's just a little bit more of like an ambient or, I don't know, it's a storytelling technique that's used in film all the time, but games, I think, do a really, you can do a really interesting job with it because of being delivered and where you place things and how you interact with them.
Ruby: Yeah, all right, so is there anything else you guys want to tell us about the White Mantle, or Salvation Pass as we know it right now?
Bobby: Play it if you can, and if you can't already, there's some good documentation on the official wiki if you're more interested in just seeing what's in there. Again, it's a—it will spoil things. But my guess is, if you go on the internet and you're interested in Guild Wars, you probably have some things already. If you're watching the show, some of it's spoiled for you, but um...
Ruby: I did warn them, so.
Bobby: Yeah, but I would say check that out to get a sense of the kind of things that are in there. And a lot of really great streams I've been seeing lately of guilds attempting to take down a boss. So if you're interested in learning how to do it, there's a lot of good documentation on maybe how to do your build, or what sort of armor might be a good, you know, combination to go into the fight, you know, pick a role, and then, and then do it. It will take a lot of practice. If you're a more casual player... I know, when I went in, we tried taking down the Vale Guardian for like, two hours, and we were not, I think we got it down to like 66% health or whatever right now. I felt like a champ just for doing that.
Ruby: You know, I saw a lot of that right at the beginning, so.
Bobby: Yeah, but I mean...
Ruby: It's just a learning experience.
Bobby: Well, and same thing with the Gorseval fight, right? Like, I play a Tempest, a Charr...
Andrew: Mhmm.
Ruby: Okay.
Bobby: And, you know, learning what my role is in that fight and then coordinating with a group of people. This is a different way for me to play because usually I would go and do a story instance in Living World or whatever, and...
Ruby: Yeah.
Bobby: I could either solo it or just go with a couple of people. For me, it was enough of a challenge, but for a lot of people, it's, you know, easy money; they could just roll right through. So this is meant to push you and challenge you and make you a bit more patient. But yeah, we made progress by the end, and I felt a little bit better, more competent. Now, when I go out in some of the HoT maps, like I can run around by myself and not die a lot because of the things I started learning and doing in the raids, it made me a better player.
Ruby: Yeah.
Bobby: So that's, I think, one of the cool takeaways.
Ruby: That is, that is a huge part of this. I mean, yeah, it's hard content. It's supposed to be hard content, and it has—I've heard, you're not the first person I've heard say that—it's making you a better player. It's upping your skills.
Bobby: Yeah, you know. And it's a personal decision, right? Like, not everybody's going to be that interested, and they might not have the time commitment to put into it, right? So—
Andrew: Although, I will say. I've seen a lot of people who—that is not their normal type of content—that once they start sort of learning it, they actually start to really enjoy it.
Bobby: Yeah, I mean, it's actually kind of...
Andrew: So I think people should try it.
Bobby: Yeah, it's renewed my interest in playing the game. Andrew and I have been working on this franchise for like, a decade or more. You've been here even longer than me.
Andrew: Yeah, 12 years or something. Yeah.
Bobby: Yeah, so, you know, 10 years for me, and you know, this IP in and out for a long time.
Ruby: Yeah, yeah.
Bobby: Played a lot at work because we're building things that we need to make sure work.
Ruby: That's what you do, yeah.
Bobby: I play it in my spare time, but there are other games out there that I want to play because, you know, I need a break...
Ruby: Yeah.
Bobby: Or I'm doing research. I want to see how they're going about doing these things. And, hey, is there anything cool with what they're doing that we can apply to our game? So I mean, all the things that we're trying with voice or, you know, the different narrative techniques or design techniques—I mean, we all kind of bring our inspirations into it, right? I don’t even know where I was going. I’m sorry.
Ruby: That’s pretty much it. That’s another thing that raiding has done for you is kind of renewed your interest.
Bobby: Yeah, exactly so. But again, we're gonna, we want to keep doing better. So keep, keep telling us what you like and what you’d like to see. And, yeah, who knows? Help us shape the game. We plan to be working on it for a while. So please.
White Mantle and Guild Wars 1 (32:22)[edit]
Andrew: As far as the history of the White Mantle, if people want to learn more about that in detail, the Guild Wars 1 wiki, wiki.guildwars.com has, it's very well documented. Like, really well done.
Ruby: It’s really, really incredible guys.
Andrew: But I would say it would be much better to experience it yourself. And as Bobby mentioned, I’m pretty sure Guild Wars 1 is not an expensive purchase, and it can be...
Ruby: Stop it.
Andrew: You can play it on things like Windows Surfaces and stuff because it’s from 2005.
Ruby: That was, that was some of the most fun content. I had a really good time with that.
Andrew: Yeah. Like, I go back and play Guild Wars 1 still, from time to time. It’s a solid game.
Ruby: It was, yeah.
Andrew: I would highly recommend you go check it out if you’re interested in the story and learning more.
Ruby: Yeah, if the White Mantle or this group is proving to be of interest to you, it’s a lot of fun. There’s a lot there.
Announcements (33:10)[edit]
Ruby: All right, so we are good for this week. I do have a few pieces of news for you guys. We have a little bit of a short show this week because we are planning for next week, which is not going to be a regular Guild Chat. Some of us are traveling down to Austin, Texas for South by Southwest Gaming. We’re going to have a Guild Chat on location there. We’ll be starting next week not at our normal time. We’re going to be starting at 12:30 instead of our usual noon start time, so plan on that. But please join us from the show floor. We’re going to have a panel down there at South by Southwest. We will have some information for you, and we’ll see you there. Make sure, as always, you follow our channel on Twitch, and we have a video that I believe you are in to show you guys. So follow our, make sure you subscribe to our YouTube channel too. It’s Guild Wars 2. And let’s take a look at this video where you guys talked about raids, and I’ll see you next week at South by Southwest.
Salvation Pass Behind the Scenes Video (34:10)[edit]
Bobby: White Mantle go all the way back to the original Guild Wars game. Kind of a cool opportunity to bring them forward, you know, a couple of hundred years into the current timeline, but also push them in new directions. We’re definitely showing some of the darker side of Tyria. Once we had a good idea of where the raids were going to take place, we started looking at where it would fit into the overall narrative of our game world and where we wanted to go. What we’re doing in these wings is setting up stuff that will continue well past that. As you’re on the outskirts of the Forsaken Thicket, you don’t even really know who these people are. They just seem to be a bunch of bandits who have been holed up in the woods. As you go deeper inside their operation, you start seeing a progression. You get deeper into their backwoods society, and their clothes start becoming a little bit more identifiable. Their ranks start becoming more apparent. The people who you encounter and fight are more powerful. You start discovering a lot more about their operation.
Crystal Reid: The White Mantle boss that you fight in Salvation Pass is known as Matthias Gabrel. A lot of his abilities are powered by magic from the Bloodstone, and some of that ties back directly to the magic that surged out into Tyria after Mordremoth died at the end of HoT. So that’s sort of the running theme for all of Salvation Pass—magic has gone crazy. It’s seeped out into the world. It explains everything that’s going on, why you walk into some areas and it’s snowing in the jungle.
Franco Galletta: And it’s chaos. Building that up, conveying how much strength he has or is holding in or not holding in. There’s obviously lore tied to it. Just not having to draw from something from the past, but just coming up with something totally new. I based it primarily off of conversations with the team as we build things out. So it's a really great collaborative process, pulling in from some of the lore and some of the actual amazing assets that were created by other artists, also kind of identifying well in this state, I'm going to actually pare back a little bit, but we still want to be able to convey his power. There's a human form and in an abominated state. So the human form is clearly going to be still powerful, but a little bit subdued, because he's in human form. When he goes into the abominated state, he's crazy. You don't know if it's possession. You don't know if he can't contain his power. So it's where the chaoticness comes in.
Crystal: Cause this meant two variations on the effects, to show how he had become more powerful in this final state, so some of the effects were altered a little for the final phase.
Bobby: The teams worked really hard on this, and everything really came together. It’s going to pay off for the players.
