Talk:Sanctum Harbor

Fuzzy boundaries

How anal are we supposed to be about "where" npcs are located? I ask because the dock along the south edge of Sanctum Harbor is half located in sanctum harbor and half located in fort marriner. Personally, it makes more sense to me to say its all located in Sanctum Harbor, since that seems the most logical. Why would the lionguard consider a consortium office to be part of their fort? Another indicator that we should look the other way is that its impossible to go from the consortium office to fort marriner without leaving the fort marriner area. Psycho Robot (talk) 20:08, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I just compare where the lines on Ishmael's maps are with the NPC's placements, since judging by what it says in game you got about 5 character lengths before it changes from any direction (thus where those lines are and just next to them can be considered as being in "both" sides). The boundaries, btw, are mechanical not exactly lore - the Consortium hut wouldn't be considered part of Fort Marriner _or_ Sanctum Harbor (maybe on the shore of Sanctum Harbor) in lore. Regarding "without leaving the area" - Seal of Union, Spark of Ilya, and Song of Lyss hold the same mechanical "issue" but is considered already by the wiki based on the mechanical boundaries. Konig 20:46, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Ok, I will count it as part of sanctum harbor. The other shore is definitely sanctum harbor, so it makes sense that this one would be as well. Psycho Robot (talk) 20:57, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Geographically, definitely would make sense. But sadly, ArenaNet doesn't always makes sense with their hidden mechanics. Konig 21:02, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

I was definitely sure you can check which area you are in by logging in and out so it will display the immediate area correlated to your coordinates.--Relyk ~ talk < 22:53, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

(Reset indent) easy way to tell, mouse over your mini map.- Zesbeer 01:51, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Zesbeer, that's what I meant when I said that you can be considered in both areas - there's an overlap for where the area name in the mini-map changes. Konig 02:10, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Jaan

So, yeah, he's technically in western ward, but nearly the entire dock structure on which he's standing is in sanctum harbor, with a large cliff face marking a transition into the western ward. I thought that in circumstances like that, we were meant to go with common sense (see above) and ignore the mechanical boundaries. Also he is literally right next to Sanctum Harbor waypoint. Psycho Robot (talk) 23:53, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

We've been doing mechanical boundaries thus far. Why stop now? Konig 00:14, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

What about the stuff above though? Psycho Robot (talk) 00:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

It says no different than my statement above. At least, for what I said; Relyk and Zesbeer just stated ways of ensuring which mechanical area you're within. Konig 00:57, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I guess I misunderstood. I don't think that really makes a lot of sense though. Because if that's the way we choose to approach this, then Lionguard Tyrro, and the entrance to fractals of the mists, is in Fort Marriner... which isn't very useful, or accurate, information for wiki users. Psycho Robot (talk) 01:07, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Actually, it would be accurate. It'd be inaccurate to say it's in Sanctum Harbor since, technically, it isn't. Konig 01:34, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

It seems silly to me to be that black and white about it, and to ignore common sense. Psycho Robot (talk) 01:37, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not ignoring common sense. Go stand on top of him, move your mouse over to the mini map. It will say "Western Ward" not "Sanctum Harbor." I am following common sense: the map tells you which area you're in. If I'm being black and white about it, that's because the mechanics are firmly black and white with no room for interpretation. If you ignore the mechanical boundaries, then sure, you can argue Jaan is in Sanctum Harbor... but you'd also be having one hell of a clusterbuck for where areas end and the next begin. It's VASTLY easier to just go with the mechanical boundaries - they're clear cut, black and white, point blank, no two bits about it, etc. etc. No need to argue when the game tells you "hey! Right now, while standing on top of this NPC, you are in this area and not in this adjacent one!" Konig 02:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

For the purposes of documenting Jaan's location, it's technically correct to say he's in Western Ward, but it's also confusing, since he's closer to Sanctum Harbor WP than to Western Ward WP. This is why I'm in favor of using pingable landmarks to document locations, rather than subzones (aka Areas). Anyone can ping a waypoint or POI, but the only way to be sure about whether you are in the correct subzone (aka area) is when you are in the area and looking at the mini map.

Just to be clear, I'm not disagreeing with Konig's main point: he's absolutely correct that the game offers an unambiguous distinction between subzones (aka areas). But I support Psycho's contention that it might be useful for players if the wiki also (or instead) makes it easier to locate NPCs (or whatever). I would never tell someone, "look for Jaan in Western Ward," I would say he's next to , aka Sanctum Harbor WP. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:01, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately, using points as location references comes with its own world of confusion. Because they are, obviously, points, there is no clear method of deciding which point you should use: the closest? by linear distance or walking distance? the one that makes most sense lore-wise? what about when the thing is in a remote location that's roughly equidistant from two or more points?

Areas, on the other hand, contiguously cover the entire game world, thus everything in the world must be located in a single area (ignoring any mobile "things" for simplicity). The only ambiguity with areas is things that exist near boundaries, as Jaan apparently does.

For the sake of the infobox, which is concerned with mechanics, we should continue the practice of locating things in a certain area - boundary cases will still need special attention, but they are pretty rare. The prose description can use whatever references you like to describe the thing's location in detail. —Dr Ishmael 03:26, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Ordinarily I'd agree, but in the case of Tyrro/fractals and Jaan, there is a very obvious physical boundary that the offending area (fort marriner and western ward, respectively) extends past, but only slightly. In the case of Tyrro and the fractals entrance, its a cliffside that goes straight up and is completely impassible. This little sliver of fort marriner is completely isolated from its main part, surrounded on all sides by sanctum harbor, and no reasonable person would say "its part of fort marriner". The only thing saying its part of fort marriner is an unambiguous but arbitrary game mechanic. Likewise, with Jaan, this little sliver of the western ward is only covering about 3 feet of the dock structure in Sanctum Harbor, with a large cliff structure standing between it and the rest of western ward. If there's no obvious physical boundary, then yes we should go by the minimap, but I think we should make exceptions in cases where there is. Psycho Robot (talk) 03:56, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

As I said, those are boundary cases, and can be treated differently. —Dr Ishmael 04:56, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Diverse Ledges Waypoint Vista walkthrough update

The walkthrough for the Diverse Ledges Waypoint Vista is incorrect. The geography has changed. The location of the waypoint has changed and there is no longer any scaffolding. Path is now east of the waypoint hidden between two rocks. Updating the walkthrough now. Luke1138 (talk) 06:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)