Guild Chat - Episode 45
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Guild Chat - Episode 45
- The following is an unofficial, player-written transcript of the episode. The accuracy of this transcription has not been verified by ArenaNet.
The 45th episode of Guild Chat aired on December 15, 2016. Join host Rubi Bayer and her developer guests for this week’s Guild Chat! They talk about designing our new friend, the baby dragon Aurene!
everybody happy friday and welcome back to guild chat i'm your host Ruby and we're going to be talking about the baby dragon or in today and her design and story and implementation in guild wars 2 so we're going to go ahead and jump right in i'll let our developer guests introduce themselves just let you talk about who you are and what you did to bring our rain into the game i am kevin freeman gamed game designer planned thank you i worked on the orient the precocious Orion instance force episode 3 cracking ice roskelley a narrative designer mostly just figuring out her role in our world I guess Ronald curry creature artist the graph holder ideas and turn it into something visual pretty much awesome thank you guys for coming and spending some time today and you'll have a lot to do yeah we and it's snowing and we all want to get outside and play in the snow because it's gonna be like five more years of predicting snow that doesn't actually happen before we get real snow again so let's just go ahead and jump in i want to talk first about story and how this got started can we talk a little bit about the first conversation between your team's between narrative and design and the initial ideas when this happened how we got started yeah i mean i came on in the middle of hot heart of thorns and we had already had this egg at this point so you know we knew sometime in the future we're going to have to pay off this egg so kind of one hot was wrapping up as when we started having our first conversations of ok this thing will hatch at some point what is it going to look like what's going to be and that's when we basically myself and the narrative director who was here at the time went to Ronald and like started opening up that kind of window of conversation of a so you know it's one of Glenn's eggs who was a lieutenant of crockett auric but it at the end of hot absorbed all this mortar month energy so we want to kind of get all these kind of things you know in one tiny little baby in what kind of started and you were telling me it just there was more and more getting pylon and it was super simple and not a problem at all well the 80s always start very simple like we always start with like oh yeah we're gonna make this like a very pretty creature we're gonna make a baby dragon and it's going to baste of this specific dragon which was a plant and so the first thing that we do is look for the previous reference and see you like how much because we need to update the the graphics we can't just go back into the old model for me to make it cooler and more adapted to the new our style so it's like how much do we adapt how do we keep it consistent and recognizable and it was kind of a challenge because my the first thoughts that I had and I was like okay we're going to make a baby a baby drag your sorry ass a dragon and then turn it into a baby dragon but because we didn't have a dragon rig for creatures only a difference of the time i had to design a full-grown dragon and they can shrink it so the process started from then and then it turned into it's going to be a baby dragon to make a cute is gonna be a girl baby dragon to make it female a cute you know and then also make it look like Martin mouth but have elements of cricket or it can have elements of you know for certain that going into this tiny little creature yeah it was yeah and interestingly enough i was blissfully unaware of this fact but we've earned their hands are part of their wings & Dragons four feet wings that was the creature model consideration that you're like oh no we'll just put it on oh yeah they are different this yes they actually had to get a lot more people working on it was gonna be like just another model specifically but now we need it triggers animators and you and its essence whole yeah well we've talked before on episodes of guild chat how we take models take risks that we already have four creatures and just kind of repurpose them for new creatures this is the first time I've heard about us creating an entirely new rig for something so that's interesting to me that attacked on a lot of time i'm assuming did that sounds like it did I took a lot of planning as as I said one of the things that we looked for in the new Dragon rig was we can't just make a brand new rig just for baby dragon because we're not going to have that many baby dragons but if we do an adult dragon we retrofitted to get a baby we can actually get a much more usable reusable break so in case we decide to ever use or ever make dragons we have now a rig that we can use I saw that look don't get me in trouble I mean there's always talks and skilled or so yeah I mean that's her dragons in this oh yeah i have heard I just heard from my room I'm mostly just saving myself at this point you guys are on your own I said nothing that's interesting you said that as far as dragons vs wyverns and the design as soon as you said that it's one of those things that I've never really consciously paid attention to ya soon as you say the same here probably makes a little bit of difference for you so you're you're asking us before like what I'd like that some of the complications so like your design process one of the biggest complications that we had during the process was how to pronounce whimpering nervous where's then I think that argument given Jim are here and ok you can you can have the river and pronunciation argument or you can have the gift vs jeff argument we do not have time for both because I want to go home at some point today and I don't want to sit here until saturday or sunday we we can only have one of those arguments or we can have none of those arguments and I'm fine with that third option and I'm not gotten that great ok so you have mentioned all of these little elements that had to go into this into this baby dragon you have glitches her mom so you've got this crystal dragon element and then there's the mornin goin in there so there's this combination of like crystal and plant that somehow worked out really well I kept after you told me that I spent a lot of time in the personal instance in the precocious for instance just like walking little circles in asking her to please help me around so thanks for that it's adorable but when I want her to hold still it's good for problem back i don't know what you're talking about how did you even find that balance and make it work out so well was it hard so during the sculptor sculpting process actually the different passes there's a couple of renders I think we have oh yeah we can look at those while we're talking to help so there's different treatments that we had for the skin this is when i got the base model kind of working and start working on the rate because you don't want to get too in depth with model before you have it functioning well thank you you can't have just like a specific person the one thing that i particularly like to do for modeling is to post it a little bit to get a little bit of the physicality of the model a native to the mesh but uh yeah the the they were different paths on the leather texture of the skin or the kind of thick wooden kind of quality that order month had and we didn't want to go to the tail we didn't want to go to all we had as you said order month was undead and plants and thorns and then we have the crystal elements and then we had the dragon elements and we had a little bit of a on that element and it was just a juggling act like okay what if we put this how much do we accentuate one thing or another so the main things were it's a dragon comes from Glen's the face definitely resembles more term on some of the that the sculpting that happened in the neck and the tail and a sense of the body has a lot of the elements of more modern itself we decided to remove some of the horniness around because that would just make it way too busy yeah that would there's a lot going on but it's just enough at this point yeah i mean that the most important thing when designing something is just to make it look how you would expect it to look it looks good and it translates the idea that you want to compete with the model like it's you know influenced by mortar month and it is a crystal dragon and it is a baby and hopefully is cute that mission accomplished yeah and I remember like normally we we will go back and forth you know like felt submit like a concept that we go oh maybe a little bit more this because of the story points for this and I feel like this was just like one or two things that we saw her just like oh yeah that's her yeah you got it yeah they look very little content from this one yeah it's just a feeling they just gotta write it was great it works ok so I have to ask speaking of her being cute I've just been watching a lot of player reaction and talking to the community since she hatched back in September and there's been an innocent the majority of the playerbase that I've heard this is totally anecdotal I haven't done like poles or anything the majority of the player basis just oh my god this is the greatest thing this is adorable but there are some players who are like I don't this is a drag why is it cute this is I don't understand why this is this thing is cute this should be a shrunken model of an adult dragon and scary and not how did you come down on the side of yes this is a baby it should look like a baby instead of this is a dragon make it scary um I don't know it's just if you look in nature most even scary things when they're tiny are cute even little tiny squids or anything you're just like oh the little tiny squares nice me and now it's but uh you know we wanted people to have an emotional attachment to her and feel the bond that the commander feels with the Dragon so yeah I mean you're not you know what's the Abraham Lincoln you can please some of the people some of the time but also yeah and not everybody's going to like every not every player is going to like every piece of content we've always said that that's totally fine yeah so we just shot for what we wanted and we as far as I'm concerned like hit it out of the park everybody did a really great job and it's you know even coming from a narrative perspective like it's tough to like say oh this is her character yet because she's so young and undeveloped but you've just seen what she looks like gives her character you know scripting her eighth and the animators doing making her do something in an instance with you gives her character and how it's all like coming together in a really really nice way to think that's true actually big props to the animators I mean there's one to bring everything to life I just make a shell but this isn't it so cute game yeah her information has been incredible I'd like to talk about that a little bit just her set up a movement we talked about her rig some there are a couple of specific postures that I noted right away as i was interacting with her and the last couple story instances that she featured in and though there were few that stood up to me and I didn't know if there were some maybe that I hadn't caught or that i had missed right after she hatched and you know everything was under attack she went into that defensive posture where she had down a little bit hissing tail up over her back and the one that everybody has been freaking out over when she's happy and she sits down and does the little padding on the ground whose idea where did these come from was this kind of collaborative thing truck because they're so much fun yeah I think chuck was doing most of that stuff who if you haven't seen him and had him on he's a large man with a burly beard I had that nose cute I know well I know you chuck yeah we asked yeah we tried to we've been trying to drag me in front of the camera but but he's a he's a he's a master of bringing that stuff out because it apparently worked for the poor thing he asked us what we wanted and we just said we want a short little animation sequence for her to do when she's happy you're pleased and that was pretty much all we told him he was like okay he went off couple days later he came back i have this what does this look and everyone just melted and also yeah and we should also give props to the audio team to because we kind of came with them with this at them with the same request of like we need her to sound like she's happy we need her to sound like she said we need her to sound like she's scared by the way she's not going to talk and you need to make all these sound effects of lately motion yeah yeah yeah yeah and then I ran away as quick as possible and then they actually came back with stuff that I was like oh she sounds sad and that's great yeah the idea team we've talked to them a lot before on the show the audio team works miracles I don't do i go in there and I talked to him I'm like yeah we had this we had this old milk carton and a really big rubber band or not yeah we and we did the whole boss with these two things and it's not like you have a squeaky door so no III don't know what I think they're casting spells yeah once we heard because like when we were developing Kevin's instance once Aaron the other one of the other riders and I like heard the sounds we were like okay we have to do a little bit of rewriting where she really like she talks to you you know because it was just like two great to like miss the opportunity of her took like acknowledge something that you're saying you know so we're like we gotta put that in which part was that do you remember I don't remember it's just like swear you don't you think our rain and you know she like affirmative Lee is like let's go here yeah whatever but it just sounds yeah it just sounds like you're like yeah she's understanding this you i am i'm assuming it's when you're trying to tell her please don't eat the fish it's literally from starving doctor there's a lot of those back and forth with Orion wasn't originally there but then they like he was saying but I put that in after they heard the really great audio that they made yeah they do incredible work so huge shout-out to the audio time because everything they've put out has just been so impressive so um the attack posture i'm assuming was the same came from Jackie just work miracles I need to happen as a cat because i'm seeing I feel like maybe he went home and looked at a pitch was like yeah this is this is the thing that we need to do so I want to talk a little bit about the interactions inside the precocious or in instances like hide-and-seek and some of the training because you talked a little bit i asked you last week about what did you study what did you do to come up with what kind of training and you touched on it a little bit i wanted to have you expand on that some ok how did you decide what are we going to teacher all right well like I'm i mentioned last week i first went and looked at some code of chivalry and prosciutto codes and child development theories and what I learned right off the bat was Bushido is way more strict than I was ever anticipating really yes and it's very it's a little more on unquestioning loyalty than i was when i was expecting but what the two like chivalry codes of chivalry should have a lot in common in terms of in terms of being being loyal and helping people who are less fortunate than you then coming to the defense of people who can't defend themselves and and that's pretty much what kind of got the ball rolling for me and you take the you take the really big points of helping those who are in need and defending those who are in need and that just kind of went from there that's such that such I don't want to see it's like a weird mix it's just such a different mix between chivalry child development but somehow it it's for teaching a baby dragon how to be a hero yeah that was that was the other tricky thing because now that you have these points of all right these are kind of the values and morals that we want to get across then the child development stuff came in and how it how do you present this to a still-developing mind that does not necessarily grasp these big concepts innately and and that's that's primarily why I kind of went down the route of using the the exalted holographic projection type imagery you know so it was it was still playful without there being an actual sense of danger so the the the in this case will the the child Orion was never really in any danger so she never really felt like her life wasn't in threat and that allows them that allows the child to pay more attention or be more more impressionable for lessons that you're trying to teach means they're not worried about oh my gosh we're gonna be hit by this car back at any minute this is true that if they aren't worried about being hit by car more apt to listen to your list right if it's exactly this is a true thing now that I've heard Kevin say that I'm really glad we removed the how to make a pizza haha that sounds super trivial on top of what you're talking about it's good yeah the pizza was a good call yeah have the pizza making it simpler because that sounds incredible and I'd love to I would play that immobilizes are in spinning pizzas on the world crystals on her back out my commits it's not me that's not know now is just committed to data I need to see that you're gonna love you go to check them are probably somewhere going no he's waiting her desk yeah what were you gonna say i was for for those who have gone back into the instance and seeing the plane catch that yes it's a it might not seem like a big deal the surface but there's a really there's a really big difference psychologically between the idea of playing catch with a child and playing fetch with a pet and originally people were saying play fetch play fetch and I it was that was something that I really tried to break because we're trying to were trying to to present Orion as an intelligent creature and one that you're trying to guide and that kind of breaks down if I'm playing fetch with my pet dog you know it's in two completely different mindset but playing catch with a child is something that helps it in that bonding process as well so that that was a really big difference for me anyway I was really adamant about that being not fetch but that is a huge difference that such it's such a tiny little thing in one word and one change to the game that you're playing with her that makes all the difference in how you're interacting with her decide know too well you can't really strongly about this well it's another Chuck thing so that's why I'm excited about this check is awesome and doing the in the plane catch where Orion throws the ball back and she doesn't a little jump to the to throw the ball back to that was something that he did like unofficially on the side went in his spare time because that he we didn't have enough time to get all the all of the animations that we wanted and he was like but he said I feel so strongly about this and I think it's so cute that i'm just going to put this in on my own time and you'll see you try to get this to work yeah so let's check yeah I hadn't noticed that she was I was pretty far away when i first played catch with her and I had noticed I was like wait a minute she's like flattening your head down and her wings are coming out what's going on so I kept throwing the ball and I'd like it a little closer a little closer so calculus gonna get we're gonna get a really good look at this thing yeah so she's also going to be scouted by a major league haha so like it oh yeah haha place and I gonna have to fight with a letter to his head down to see her butt and she's going to be scouted well she's making pizzas well that's like her road to you know like she was just a lowly pizza maker in this village and then she got brought up to the big leagues I'm pitching it's a fox next week's not you are committing some weird stuff today but stores i was very much okay with it i actually had this moment as you said that about episode 4 like it what are you doing is you do know i was mostly like dude that's all you i'm looking at my notes and there's nothing about this year because I'm covered but I do i do like the storyline please let me know how it works out yeah do not look I will from the unemployment line that's how you how that fanfic goes in my head I just want to see her i'm i'm really stuck on the idea of her spinning pieces on either the crystals are the wingtips I'm I'm just not getting past how hilarious that would be if nothing else comes out of this life dragon ate so mama this our entire living world took the weirdest left turn today visited just went super strange so we are i mentioned earlier we are going to take questions at the end so if you've got them put them in chat i want to talk about a couple of extra things that are maybe story definitely precocious serene we are bringing her gifts to put on her little pedestals which is super fun by the way I love filling those out and look at all the cool things have got for her how did you guys decide what to put in there because it's all here stuff from the outside world like Kevin do this alright so it was a night it was an idea that that right so Orion is pretty much locked inside of this area she can't leave because we're mean or no no it's for her own protection you know it's still protecting her and making sure so she can't leave but we still there are two things that kind of went into this first you can't really build a bond with some with someone when you just spent 45 minutes with them one time and then walk away alright see you later oh I just you know you're right here look at that doesn't really happen so we want for christmas see next Christmas so we wanted to make sure that there were opportunities for the player to go back and interact with Orion repeatedly and additionally i was the first motivation the second motivation is she's in this she's interior it's that is this the sum total of her experience his career yeah so if we want her to appreciate the cultures of the world or the the the races of the world and not see them its food importance super important that's what's on our beaches but then I kind of wanted an opportunity to or to piggyback on this wanting to bring the player back okay well she if the player is collecting cultural trinkets from the major races and bringing them back and like here let me expose you to the world in in some fashion at least I mean as we all know souvenirs are not the experience of the world but it is an experience of the world and much more than what she has locked in Tahrir so the player brings these cultural souvenirs and was that artifacts brown word up springer some fridge magnets different and by these these souvenirs we expose her to various the cultures of the at least some aspect of the cultures and so honest I don't growing up my parents used to tell me that way to experience the culture is through eating the culture so maybe we're into something with whole piece of things but it's not Papa we need to bring her food from it's going to be a myth she's just gonna instance understood this and be like I thought you might eat the corporate culture well that was going to be another thing like that if you if you notice in the helping the needy encounter at the very end the your your quest contact gives you some food back saying oh this is so much food thank you very much here's here's something for you yeah there's extra food and that was actually supposed to be kind of a breadcrumb for a larger larger thing of also getting food from around the world and bringing that back to back to read but really yeah that unfortunately didn't get in is that way you make that face yeah i don't know that i was like oh gosh what did I just do the scope face oh that's cool face gotcha okay are you okay do you need a moment there okay that's that's the face when you return from the magical land in your head where everything is possible in love and we have a management technology infinite technology and literal magic powers yes so alright is there anything else about Orion the and her design and creation that you guys want to pass on really oh I do have one more question about precocious ordering that i forgot to write down but her homesick i didn't set that up I don't care that much as i can do that if I went to her hide-and-seek game at the beginning was that just a way of like said she's a little cute of getting her wiggles out and so she can settle down and be series yeah that that ended up being kind of a demonstration of her playfulness she's still she's still a child and a way for the two to show the commander gently leading the child into school time as opposed to just being demanding you play with you play with her a little bit like okay well no we played we played a little bit i did something for you now you can do something ok let's go and you know we didn't want to instantly be like I'm here where's my death machine right get it you know he's ease into that fair enough yeah I kind of wondered about that because I liked her playing around like hey look i can be invisible find me by you're like okay let's do this because as a parent I've experienced that yes ok we will we will play but we really have stuff to do so let's play for a little bit but really really got to do this so that was that was kind of a fun and familiar thing to see and I was sort of hoping that's where that was going like or am I missing an important lesson here haha alright so we're going to take a short break and I'll let you guys ask some questions and we'll be right back in a few minutes thank you login deep everybody while can master remember not to laugh when blogging she's the silly way to swim because it could hurt charge earrings and char Mike's gab walking with pointy metal foo trust you food not all but most are good bubbles [Music] enjoy yourself Oh a friendly human taught me a nice song boop-boop-boop-boop banana fana floopy doop dee 5 boop-boop-boop-boop yourself walkin want to drink human tonic sol quaggan can run around seeing broken logon ok quacking volume is you book Walden would only be pretending to look forward to eat logins nine ish rim cloggin just let it go because it's inside the shark's belly already what is walking going to do tiny shrimp is gone forever please consider the possibility doesn't understand using because no bubbles come out logon thanks sneezing is weird emotions are scary walking doesn't like going into murderous berserker reaches us things shrimp are involved then quaggan thinks certainly be justified [Music] alright we have questions from Lady Oriana why did you choose the name Maureen doesn't mean anything special I think primarily it was based on the coloring that we are kind of landing on because she has this green turquoise green blue gold blue gold anything and that's the there's like Orion glass which is that's kind of the spectrum that it runs well ok so i think that was primarily it right that was a good thing to land on it it kind of works for her yeah how about okay I'm gonna need somebody to have written this down how long has the idea of rnb been around get your calendars yeah that's a specific date I don't know it's upsetting because like you know once we had Glenn's egg you know there's always the notion that it was going to pay off and hatch so when was it like specifically like when we were thinking or green I guess it was just kind of the end of hot when we are wrapping that up and having those first conversations like kind of when she in that general time yeah that's it just you know that down because these conversations go on for a long time and there's a ton of planning yeah in that timeframe that works um why was the shadow rig not reused instead of making a new raid was too old uh no actually well the reason we didn't necessarily have a dragon Rick which was a whole separation of like dragons and women's was mostly because the way that we create creatures are separated between creature rigs and prop creatures or prop bosses and so the shutter is actually a prop which can actually have a lot more stuff on adversus a creature which is controlled into specific directory and specific rigs and so we it turns out all our dragons were like gigantic drives we didn't have any smaller brands for the specific reason we needed a small dragon so what we wanted to reuse the Ray so right we made a brand new array for okay so something actually meant to be small yeah and also reusable yes ok this is an excellent question can or even be made into a ranger pet law not me I can't take this no good going you guys do you want that money or means well okay yes you want that money or not we can't do that i'm asking the wrong questions here we can't do that i'm sorry alright how about a question number six other than being influenced by the absorbed Elder Dragon magic is there another reason why or rain looks cuter as a hatchling than her older sibling gleam did as a hatchling in guild wars one well as you mentioned the nature usually happens that babies are cuter uh kinda like a natural instinct that is booked in the parents to protect this defenseless child so you wanted to be cute you if this fish is looking like wow shows up you're probably gonna be like let's get what we want to protect that you're probably gonna think kill it with fire so it's true it's mostly because of the character design past like if you look at her just by itself she's not pretty like let's be honest she looks like yeah whatever but she's not we were talking about that really aesthetically speaking she's not pretty yeah I just got like magal to the room in like gigantic like i don't recommend headlines yeah like she's still dangerous but her demeanor like the the personality that comes out is childish playful you know nan vicious the thing so you need to translate that I had a little bit and endorse one claims model i believe that was just a really scaled down version of the adult model yes so now we're talking about the technology that we have a departmental resources that we had at the time so now we're actually able to put a little more of an investment into yeah we have better stuff deal alright i believe that is our last that's the last question we have so i will tell you guys thank you very much for spending some time and talking about our new baby dragon in the game and thank you guys for coming and watching the show and make sure you follow us on twitter and subscribe on youtube if you're watching this later we will see you on the next killed Chet have a good weekend by thanks guys sure