Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Community portal

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Community Portal

Lost in a sea of projects, formats, and debates? Look no further! These are the current hot topics, and you can find previous topics here.

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Old topics are archived to these subpages.

Tango icons[edit]

Due to its length, some of this conversation has been archived - see Guild Wars 2 Wiki talk:Community portal/Archive 23#Tango icons.

Profession icon templates[edit]

Basic concept as follows.

1. Created Template:Profession icon sizes - a new equivalent non-tango template to Template:Tango icon sizes.

2. Created Template:Profession icon sizes/documentation - to make the documentation easy.

3. Plan to replace each of the profession shorthand templates (such as Template:Guardian) with:

{{Profession icon sizes|Guardian|{{{1}}}}}<noinclude>
{{Profession icon sizes/documentation|Guardian}}

i.e. I'm going to hide the "big" shorthands and the usage I'll display either includes tango in the size keyword or not.

4. Continue to route most templates through Template:Profession. We could alternatively bake all of this code into the "profession icon" template. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Okay the individual templates are updated. I've also amended Template:Related traits filter/Template:Related skills filter to use the new icons. If you see any tango icons in the mainspace (other than common/some), either fix the template directly or post about it here and we can fix it together.
Nice job everyone. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:32, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Oh and this is obvious, but if anyone has any feedback on individual icons, feel free to voice it - we can still tweak them. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:12, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
The contrast on the revenant, renegade and vindicator icons is pretty low in my opinion. ~Sime 00:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
As Sime said the contrast is pretty low (especially for the revenant icons), the black borders and the shaded black backgrounds make it hard to recognize the according profession/elite specialization at first glance.
As noone has posted a direct comparision, here are the available icons (unfortunately bladesworn, mechanist, untamed are only available in 200px):

Elementalist tango icon 20px.png Mesmer tango icon 20px.png Necromancer tango icon 20px.png Engineer tango icon 20px.png Ranger tango icon 20px.png Thief tango icon 20px.png Guardian tango icon 20px.png Revenant tango icon 20px.png Warrior tango icon 20px.png
Tempest tango icon 20px.png Chronomancer tango icon 20px.png Reaper tango icon 20px.png Scrapper tango icon 20px.png Druid tango icon 20px.png Daredevil tango icon 20px.png Dragonhunter tango icon 20px.png Herald tango icon 20px.png Berserker tango icon 20px.png
Weaver tango icon 20px.png Mirage tango icon 20px.png Scourge tango icon 20px.png Holosmith tango icon 20px.png Soulbeast tango icon 20px.png Deadeye tango icon 20px.png Firebrand tango icon 20px.png Renegade tango icon 20px.png Spellbreaker tango icon 20px.png
Catalyst tango icon 20px.png Virtuoso tango icon 20px.png Harbinger tango icon 20px.png Mechanist tango icon 200px.png Untamed tango icon 200px.png Specter tango icon 20px.png Willbender tango icon 20px.png Vindicator tango icon 20px.png Bladesworn tango icon 200px.png


Elementalist icon small.png Mesmer icon small.png Necromancer icon small.png Engineer icon small.png Ranger icon small.png Thief icon small.png Guardian icon small.png Revenant icon small.png Warrior icon small.png
Tempest icon small.png Chronomancer icon small.png Reaper icon small.png Scrapper icon small.png Druid icon small.png Daredevil icon small.png Dragonhunter icon small.png Herald icon small.png Berserker icon small.png
Weaver icon small.png Mirage icon small.png Scourge icon small.png Holosmith icon small.png Soulbeast icon small.png Deadeye icon small.png Firebrand icon small.png Renegade icon small.png Spellbreaker icon small.png
Catalyst icon small.png Virtuoso icon small.png Harbinger icon small.png Mechanist icon small.png Untamed icon small.png Specter icon small.png Willbender icon small.png Vindicator icon small.png Bladesworn icon small.png

Based on this comparison for me the new icons just look incredible dull while the colours of the old icons are much more lively, especially in combination with skill or trait icons (e.g. skill and trait lists on Might). --Tolkyria (talk) 09:23, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Edit: The wiki is designed for 20px icons, then in my opinion we should use icons that have an effective width/heigh of 20px (whatever dimension is applicable for the specific icon). Taking a look at the current icon sizes (in the right column) there are quite some differences in the size. First, the sizes I figured out (hopefully I got all of them correctly) together with the old icons as size comparison (in the left column) and second, afterwards, some observations.
Elementalist Mesmer Necromancer Engineer Ranger Thief Guardian Revenant Warrior
Elementalist tango icon 20px.png
Elementalist icon small.png
Mesmer tango icon 20px.png
Mesmer icon small.png
Necromancer tango icon 20px.png
Necromancer icon small.png
Engineer tango icon 20px.png
Engineer icon small.png
Ranger tango icon 20px.png
Ranger icon small.png
Thief tango icon 20px.png
Thief icon small.png
Guardian tango icon 20px.png
Guardian icon small.png
Revenant tango icon 20px.png
Revenant icon small.png
Warrior tango icon 20px.png
Warrior icon small.png
15x20 13x19 20x17 19x16 17x20 15x17 16x19 15x18 19x19 17x18 20x20 17x16 20x19 15x17 20x19 20x20 20x20 20x16
Tempest tango icon 20px.png
Tempest icon small.png
Chronomancer tango icon 20px.png
Chronomancer icon small.png
Reaper tango icon 20px.png
Reaper icon small.png
Scrapper tango icon 20px.png
Scrapper icon small.png
Druid tango icon 20px.png
Druid icon small.png
Daredevil tango icon 20px.png
Daredevil icon small.png
Dragonhunter tango icon 20px.png
Dragonhunter icon small.png
Herald tango icon 20px.png
Herald icon small.png
Berserker tango icon 20px.png
Berserker icon small.png
20x20 18x17 20x20 20x18 16x20 18x20 20x20 18x18 20x20 19x18 20x18 19x18 20x20 16x18 20x20 20x20 18x20 18x20
Weaver tango icon 20px.png
Weaver icon small.png
Mirage tango icon 20px.png
Mirage icon small.png
Scourge tango icon 20px.png
Scourge icon small.png
Holosmith tango icon 20px.png
Holosmith icon small.png
Soulbeast tango icon 20px.png
Soulbeast icon small.png
Deadeye tango icon 20px.png
Deadeye icon small.png
Firebrand tango icon 20px.png
Firebrand icon small.png
Renegade tango icon 20px.png
Renegade icon small.png
Spellbreaker tango icon 20px.png
Spellbreaker icon small.png
13x20 14x18 20x20 17x18 20x20 18x18 20x17 18x17 20x20 16x18 19x15 20x16 19x20 17x18 16x20 14x18 16x20 18x20
Catalyst tango icon 20px.png
Catalyst icon small.png
Virtuoso tango icon 20px.png
Virtuoso icon small.png
Harbinger tango icon 20px.png
Harbinger icon small.png
Mechanist icon small.png
Untamed icon small.png
Specter tango icon 20px.png
Specter icon small.png
Willbender tango icon 20px.png
Willbender icon small.png
Vindicator tango icon 20px.png
Vindicator icon small.png
Bladesworn icon small.png
19x20 19x19 20x20 18x17 14x20 14x19 19x18 20x18 20x19 18x17 20x18 17x17 18x20 18x18 20x17
Second, some observations:
  • All warrior icons perfectly use the given 20px.
  • All guardian icons are way too small for me, using around 17px/18px at most, making them look very small especially compared to the old icons.
  • Core necromancer and core thief icon are also kinda small, compare to reaper or daredevil/deadeye which are using their available width/height.
Conclusion: In general some of the icons could be enlarged to better use the given 20 pixels, there's no need to for a 3px border in the larger dimension (e.g. in a 15x17 icon). In my opinion we should exploit the available 20 pixel as much as possible. --Tolkyria (talk) 16:18, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
Ah this is where this conversation was happening - thought it might be here. If I may chime in with my opinion, I actually think the new icons look more consistent with the general visual style of the game. "Tango" icons as a whole kind of harken back to a previous internet era and I think nowadays they read a bit dated. I also think it is pretty apparent that these tango icons have been made by several different artists, which is not meant to be a dig at any particular person but rather a comment that the tango icons don't look particularly cohesive as a collection.
I want to make it very clear that I like the new icons, and I think they go well with the general aesthetic design of both the game and the wiki. My only real gripe with the new icons is that some of them have low visual clarity, mostly stemming from contrast issues. The Scrapper icon could be fixed by just going over the icon with some additional black lines, but the Revenant icons need a lighter color to avoid looking like a blob. I am weakly negative about the rounding out of the sharp tips on icons like Virtuoso, Druid, Renegade, and Catalyst (why do their points get rounded out while Elementalist's doesn't?) but that is a really minor nitpick and doesn't substantially detract from the design. Aqua[talk] 22:29, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
Will those new icons ever get improved? After one week I'm still having problems to recognize them properly, too dark, too small, remarkable details are not fetched out. --Tolkyria (talk) 21:50, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
The new icons don't really 'fit' in the specialization grid. Something bigger should be made available. They also disappear in the mobile version when you scroll past the table, and don't come back without a refresh.
Omitting them from each elite specialization page is not the solution either. The profession icon is more recognizable/more personal to me than the trait icon because my bladesworn is not a giant male norn, but a female sylvari. The gallery doesn't meet this need. This 'identifier' of the profession should be top, (almost) first and foremost. HOT specs currently have nothing to show their profession icon. P.S. I'm on board with all the new icons, except Virtuoso. Turbo404 (talk) 15:10, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Some clarification: EoD added in-game specialization descriptions and in the process of adding those I also slightly restructure the elite specialization pages, for example see this edit. My changes, especially the removal of the tango icon, were based on a bunch of edits which happened in September 2021. They followed this discussion which resulted in that non-in-game-icons should not be placed in the intro at the start of the text.
Indeed, another set of the new icons with a size of e.g 40px would be handy as it would ensure consistent icon usage across the wiki (very few but still some pages would benefit from larger profession/elite specialization icons). --Tolkyria (talk) 16:03, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Agree with both slightly editing the new icons to make the most of the available 20 px, and making bigger versions of them as they would look good at the start of profession articles and the specialization article. Especially because the HoT elite specs don't have a "promotional icon" we can put in the gallery. Warming Hearth (talk) 16:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
Just a small bump, I hope making bigger versions of these icons is not forgotten because although they are great they are too small to be used everywhere. ~Sime 15:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
I like how Sime always adds diplomatically formulated bumps,... but wow this one was added two month ago with no response in the meantime, so...
This section says at the beginning: "Oh and this is obvious, but if anyone has any feedback on individual icons, feel free to voice it - we can still tweak them."
Right now we have:
  • Two editors asking to improve the revenant icons:
    • "The contrast on the revenant, renegade and vindicator icons is pretty low in my opinion"
    • "the Revenant icons need a lighter color to avoid looking like a blob"
  • Three editors asking for another set of larger icons:
    • "The new icons don't really 'fit' in the specialization grid. Something bigger should be made available."
    • "making bigger versions of them as they would look good at the start of profession articles and the specialization article"
    • "I hope making bigger versions of these icons is not forgotten because although they are great they are too small to be used everywhere"
But still there haven't been a single response nor a single adjustment from those who have been so actively participating in the icon change. Time to deliver! --Tolkyria (talk) 08:25, 6 July 2022 (UTC)
I've stretched the vindicator icon and removed several shadows to make it easier to read/identify. No strong feelings about its colour. Vindicator icon small.png
With 20 pixels, things like shadows, or the moon of the druid icon, or gaps in the tempest icons, get too stretched/diluted and there's simply no way to show those details faithfully. Some small, almost imperceptible variations from the official icon are inevitable as details blend together.
That's why I proposed increasing the size of these icons, but I don't think anyone voiced their thoughts about this proposal.
The other icons all seem fine to me, they are easily identifiable, they just need to be brought up to 20x20.
Since there has been no other negative feedback about these icons, it does seem we can move forward with making bigger icons. What size do we need? 50x50? Warming Hearth (talk) 16:03, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Recharge and activation icons[edit]

Okay, now to a different, but similar topic. Should we replace Tango-recharge-darker.png, Activation.png, Energy.png, and Health cost.png with their ingame versions? Recharge.png, Time Until Temporary Services Depart.png, etc. Sunlion (talk) 21:23, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I like it! I think they're still pretty readable and it's nice to use the in-game style where possible. Would be good to post some of the comparisons you made for the Discord here :) Heillos (talk) 21:43, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
I agree. It's the official in-game icon, and that icon (or at least a very similar one) is widely used in external sites like Snowcrows or Metabattle. The only downside is that it looks a bit out of place with the wiki light theme, since in-game that icon is used with a dark background, but that's just getting used to it. Warming Hearth (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Crafting profession articles[edit]

The articles about the crafting professions (Armorsmith, Artificer, etc.) seem to take a while to load, are a bit bloated with recipes that hinder its readability, and some sections seemed to fit better during the first years after the release of the game, such as "Unique armor/weapons". I think it would be best if more sections could be tucked in their own subpages (such as Armorsmith/Novice recipes, Artificer/Potions, etc.) and just linked towards in the main article. Short sections such as "Back items" could stay for the time being. It might be a bit annoying navigating through so many subpages, but I think it's detrimental having such long loading times for a page that gets linked in every other item and recipe article. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas to further improve the article please feel free to share them. Myriada (talk) 14:08, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

While we should strive to have as much as info in one place as possible, I agree due to the load times + it is not like there isn't a precedent already with the pages you linked. On the same note, the Research Note page should be reduced as well since it has one of the longest load times on the wiki I think + Djemba confirmed on discord it is hitting the query limit. ~Sime 16:47, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
Research Note/Salvage research will eventually be nearly as big as the crafting disciplines themselves, so I second the notion of splitting it. It could be argued that reduces the utility of comparing for the cheapest Notes, but I don't think it does very good at that in it's current incarnation either. Maybe something like Portable Composter/Salvage research for each discipline would help find breakpoints in the quantity of Notes? Adeira Tasharo (talk) 22:36, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
P.S. If we can standardize it, maybe we could add to item pages an estimates number of Notes, akin to how food lists the Extracts of Nourishment? Adeira Tasharo (talk) 22:42, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and trimmed down the articles, so now the loading times should be much shorter. For now the enhancement and back item sections were not that long to move onto a different section, but if that changes in the future or we want to further decrease the loading time, that can always be done. Myriada (talk) 09:12, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion to change how locations are organized[edit]

It's been noticed that certain gathering node locations don't appear when Template:Gathering node list is used. An example is the auto-generated list Rare Fish#Locations - the list doesn't include Eastern Wilds. I believe this is due to the top level location being "unset" in the "Located in tree" property for Eastern Wilds (currently appears as "Unset;Shing Jea Island;Seitung Province"). This is due to a mixture of mechanical zones being located within map only "lore" regions which don't have properties set.

Here's a spreadsheet with a full list of how our zones/cities/raids are noted on the wiki (link to spreadsheet).

I'd like to propose something radical, and move the wiki away from the API nomenclature for "continents" being the top level thing as this feels excessively confusing.

  • World (e.g. Tyria (world), or The Mists) -- same as the API continent/1. I'd actually move this page to [[Tyria]], and move the current continent Tyria article to [[Tyria (continent)]]
    • Region -- pretty much as they appear the moment, except using Cantha for all EOD zones per the API.
      • Zone
        • Area

i.e. the following changes:

  1. Rename the type = "continent" option in the infobox to "world" as the type. Adjust the property accordingly.
  2. Move "Tyria" to "Tyria (continent)".
  3. Move "Tyria (world)" to "Tyria".
  4. Change the current "continent" articles "Tyria (continent)" to be "lore only" and remove its infobox).
  5. 1Yes Change the current "continent" article "Elona" to be "lore only" and remove its infobox).
  6. 1Yes Amend the "Cantha" page to be a region within "Tyria" (world).
  7. Due to swapping the content of the top level page, without making any changes we're making regions directly fall under the "world" type, without modifying any of the region pages.
  8. 1Yes Change the "Crystal Desert" (region) to be within "Tyria" (world)
  9. 1Yes Amend the "Elona" page to be a lore continent.
  10. 1Yes Amend the previous lore regions in cantha and remove their infoboxes
  11. 1Yes Change all four of the EoD zones to be within "Cantha" (region).

Ultimately this will end up printing the Has location tree property as "Tyria;Cantha;Seitung Province" for example. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Summarizing a quick talk on discord with some copy-paste:
I wouldn't base myself too much on the API I think since I feel like I remember it doing some really wild associations for some maps. But having Tyria -> (Tyria, Crystal Desert, Cantha stuff) -> (individual maps) seems the most straightforward.
I could see those lore regions being in a map/continent infobox as a "contains, or is a part of X", but that would be it and obviously whatever relevant text on the page itself.
It makes sense to have lore regions separate as "lore" since IRL it's kind of that way as well. A province is within a country, within a continent, within a world and sometimes you have "lore regions" that span across countries and provinces like the fertile crescent in Africa -Darqam 19:37, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
In agreement with Darqam here, I think that describes how most users "think of" the in-game world, thus would make the most sense as the way we represent it on the wiki. Diruuo (talk) 19:51, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
This sounds needlessly complicated. If you're going to do #7 and #10, then there is really no need to do anything else. You're proposing a lot more work than needed. That said, IF they were renamed, I'd suggest Thryia and Central Tyria, personally. Konig (talk) 20:53, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
That would take care of Elona and Cantha, certainly, but the HoT maps are also considered part of the continent of Tyria, and so is the region known as Central Tyria which is the maps unlocked by the core game. So I think the change is needed. Kaele Forester (talk) 21:08, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
From my understanding of Alex's post, the issue isn't that "maps are considered part of the continent of Tyria" but that "some maps are not showing up due to unset parameters in the chain", and suggesting reshaping the entire structure for the issue that seems to be restricted to just Canthan maps because people put the lore regions in place. This is an issue restricted only to the EoD maps by my understanding, because PoF and S4 maps already list Crystal Desert as their region, and there is no unset parameter within the chain. So simply changing Seitung Province to being in region Cantha, like how Domain of Kourna is set to being in region Crystal Desert, fixes the issue that's actually at hand. Konig (talk) 22:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks Konig, so that does fix the template display issue. However now we've got the data stored like this;
  • Tyria (continent) > Ascalon > Iron Marches
  • Elona (continent) > Crystal Desert > Fahranur, the First City
  • Tyria (world) > Cantha (continent) > Seitung Province
I think my proposal still stands in a way; the three above aren't consistently following "world > region > zone". -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 04:53, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Can just change references to Elona and Tyria (continent) to Tyria (world) then, without any actual need to move articles. Doing so would make #1-4 unnecessary and be less work than reshaping several articles from the ground up. #5 and #8 are basically done anyways (just minor cleanup needed), #9 is half-done from the get go too. Konig (talk) 12:01, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Weren't Cantha's regions added (or at least the labels made visible) retroactively (as in after release)? Because if so maybe they'll make some of them mechanical regions for cases where that would make sense (i.e. in case there're more maps in the next Living World Season, so it'd be more than one map per region (though nothing wrong with only one map per region either); not counting the guild hall) later on as well; so that it would only be Cantha the continent anymore and not also a (mechanical) region?
Also, while now the template issue may be resolved, the maps are now missing from the list on map completion/table again. Nightsky (talk) 19:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
They were actually all still missing from the Map completion table except Echovald Forest prior to Konig's edit anyway. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 05:29, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Sticking Cantha as within Tyria has fixed Map completion/table. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 15:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

List of enemies by zones[edit]

How can we see a list of enemies within each zone? -- Shena'Fu (talk) 01:24, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Have a look at each of the area pages. We don't structure the enemy pages in such a way as to pull this information out automatically. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 10:03, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
You shouldn't pull from the enemy page. You could pull from the pages of the sub-areas inside that zone. Collate the data from all areas in the zone. Ideally into a table that can be sorted by enemy type or by area.
If necessary, create a new subpage under the zone's main page, and linked from the main page. -- Shena'Fu (talk) 04:15, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
Area pages do not support this either, and it would be even more complicated to make them do so. DJemba (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

10th Anniversary & Steam Release[edit]

Hi guys, just dropping a note here that I've restored two bits of the original game wiki theme (logo file with red shadows, and red triangular header file) for the 10th Anniversary celebrations.

These changes won't be visible if you're using the vector dark mode theme (the original image contains white highlights which I haven't got the time to remaster). Additionally retention of the EOD background images on the main page is intentional (somehow I didn't think Logan, Eir and Zojja were relevant anymore). -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 12:07, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Normal theme for EOD now restored. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 23:38, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
I do not know, there is still some stuff coming so I would personally keep it a bit longer imho. ~Sime 23:39, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Agreed with Sime that it'd probably be a good idea to keep for a bit longer. Maybe until the 10th of September? Sunlion (talk) 23:50, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
Eh, I think the EoD theme looks much better. Warming Hearth (talk) 10:15, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Graphical bug in coin values[edit]

On the page Map bonus reward/profit the coin icons (gold, silver, copper) appear too large compared to the text, at least on my screen. If I recall correctly, this didn't use to be so. Maybe it has to do with the site theme modifications. The icons are 32x32 pixels and are usually scaled to 20x20 pixels in price information tables. The tables on the page are generated with Widget:Map_bonus_rewards/script.js. The problem could be fixed by adding class="gw2-tpprice" to elements that contain coin images. Kumiponi (talk) 11:58, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

good spot, Sunlion switched the icon files a few weeks ago and we missed this template as part of the update. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:39, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Ledes or introductions for crafting items[edit]

There has recently been some discussion in the wiki, Reddit, and Discord, about a new project for writing ledes for crafting items, with already some work being done with cloth crafting materials. Since there have been disagreements about how to proceed, and considering the number of articles that would be changed, I'm opening a discussion here in the community portal where we can all participate. I'll start:

I like having introductions. Explaining what the item is (although that's already shown VERY clearly in the infobox) and their most common use, such as refining it into a higher quality item.

What I absolutely oppose is listing all of that item's uses there in the introduction. And the Gossamer Scrap page was a good example of why that's a terrible idea.

Bloating the introduction by saying the item can be used to craft a subitem required for a subcollection that rewards a gift used to craft yet another gift that is used to craft a legendary weapon absolutely defeats the point of having an introduction. It goes against what an introduction should be.

Still using Gossamer Scraps as an example, even if you truly believed that listing all its 3 uses in the introduction is the way to go, what would you do when you have to write an introduction for Bolt of Gossamer, which has several dozens uses. You simply cannot list all its uses in the introduction, and you would then have 2 pages in the same category —crafting materials— which follow a different structure and present the information in different ways. This goes against the principles of the wiki of presenting the information in a consistent and predictable manner.

I am also not too thrilled about listing the required crafting level for that item. First of all, that information is already present in the infobox. And second, some crafting materials are used in recipes with different crafting level requirements, so it would be bloating to list all the level requirements. For example, Elder Wood Plank is used in recipes ranging from level 225 to 500.

Adding introductions can be a great change, so long as the introduction does its job properly and doesn't become a copy-paste or rewriting of ALL the information in the article. Warming Hearth (talk) 10:35, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

As I've shared on the discord I see value in having "blurbs" or intros (ledes) to pages for the purposes of functional tooltips, how complex or not that tooltip is can't possibly be generalized, as there's far too many different items to be able to generalize. That said, I feel like we should strive to have all tooltips be functional and to the point to the best of our ability. The example here with Gossamer scrap is too long-winded and unwieldy for such purposes. I've further expanded on this in discord with screenshots, so if needed can view there in the #wiki-editing-help channel Diruuo (talk) 13:50, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Catching up on a week of wiki edits and discussions - I jumped right in and edited the cloth crafting materials without seeing this discussion. Sorry. I shortened the intros - to a for me sensible lenght. I think of these intros/ledes in terms of the link popup previews. One or two sentences to describe the subject in general. As such I reduced the intros to "what is it", "most regular craft" (with craft disciplines - debateable; could be removed) and "most common acquisition". —Kvothe (talk) 18:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
I apologize for adding my thoughts this late. I think every article should have a lede (or a lead paragraph) introducing what it is, absolutely every single one. Not only because the preview is otherwise broken, but also because it does help with quickly explaining what the item/page/whatever is about (and as an added bonus, it helps with Google searches, though we don't really care about that). On the other hand, I do not think that the lede should be longer than a sentence or two, it should just summarize what the page is about and the most important points. ~Sime 20:44, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I second Sime's opinion. You need a short and snappy intro so the reader can quickly discern what a page is about. From my experience with writing documentation, I stick to a simple rule: the longer a text, the smaller the chance someone is going to read or understand it. ~ Sanna Talk page 09:46, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Template errors[edit]

Hi, not sure if this is known already or not but from looking at some pages like Minotaur/Skale/Raptor (same goes for pages about organizations like Inquest) and so on, the template used for categories such as Types and Related Achievements appear to be broken and don't display the intended information. --Looopy (talk) 20:17, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Even after purging the page(s)? They seem fine after a purge for me. Inculpatus cedo (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
Take a look at Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Reporting wiki bugs; it's either goig to be: (A) SMW properties not set correctly on some of the other pages leading to auto-population lists being empty on the category overview pages, or (B) the page doesn't render the SMW bits correctly at all - both of these are known bugs! -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 21:09, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of the purge feature until now (and that it affected things like that). It seems fixed after using it, thanks for the information. --Looopy (talk) 21:18, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) For the formal record, I've created a new abuse filter Special:AbuseFilter/36 - visible to the general public, which is going to prevent all template and property edits. The intention is to prevent template/property edits invalidating the existing cache of a large numbers of pages (thereby preserving working content in most instances and maximising availability to regular users/readers). My suggestion is for this to last as long as it takes to resolve the bugs causing page rendering faults, however lets review in a week's time. I know this sucks, but this has been discussed + endorsed by the sysop team.

I have added a message that appears at the top of template and property pages, as well as a specific notice that appears when the edit is disallowed. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:42, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

(that was a fast 12 days)
We're still getting the same problems, but I think with the reduction in template edits I'm "feeling" an anecdotal reduction in encountering blatantly broken pages. I'm proposing to leave this for another week, but idk if ArenaNet will find a solution .-Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 19:45, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
Template namespace has been out of action for 3 weeks now - shall we revise the rule to target specific high-traffic templates, or perhaps templates with any of the following in the title?
" infobox"
" nav"
" icon"
" table"
" table header"
" table row"
"achievement list"
Would appreciate thoughts. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 16:22, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
For those templates we open up for editing, we'll want our editors to take some extra care when it comes to purging the knock-on effects. For example, this edit of mine instantly broke the three pages which transclude it. Some effects may be delayed due to queuing, but it wouldn't hurt to go through the pages a few minutes after a template edit. Greener (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Opening up some of the templates to editing again'd be great.
A rough search for occurences (Using a regex of [{]{2}([^{|}:]+)[{|}:]. (So won't count, among other things, templates included via templates and templates used as #ask template result format.)) through ~July 15, 2022 namespace 0 data yields the following 75 templates that which are each used on 1% or over of the current total pages (102,637):
Template Pages Pages*100/102637
rounded to 2 places
Item infobox 23787 23.18% 23787
NPC infobox 17186 16.74% 17186
Contained in 13747 13.39% 13787
Sold by 10444 10.18% 10450
Otheruses 9873 9.62% 9880
Skill fact 9349 9.11% 72510
Recipe 8533 8.31% 9307
Dialogue icon 8183 7.97% 91178
Skin infobox 7481 7.29% 7481
Skin list 7477 7.28% 7477
Event 7337 7.15% 19937
Weapon infobox 6239 6.08% 6239
Skill infobox 6221 6.06% 6221
Section-stub 6143 5.99% 9884
Item icon 5757 5.61% 90624
Object infobox 5260 5.12% 5260
Collection nav 5104 4.97% 5106
Redirect 5005 4.88% 5007
Armor infobox 4783 4.66% 4783
Location infobox 4038 3.93% 4038
Teaches recipe 4020 3.92% 4020
Effect infobox 3855 3.76% 3855
STDT 3845 3.75% 7151
Event infobox 3634 3.54% 3634
Version history table row 3633 3.54% 16119
Version history table header 3632 3.54% 3632
Version history 3546 3.45% 3546
Effect 3522 3.43% 7747
Contains 3464 3.38% 41825
Creature nav 3089 3.01% 3089
Recipe list 3065 2.99% 3065
Achievement 2956 2.88% 5399
Event rewards 2946 2.87% 2999
Flavor 2678 2.61% 4099
Event bar 2670 2.6% 3907
Prefix selection 2601 2.53% 2737
During 2413 2.35% 4023
Stolen skill 2241 2.18% 6595
Stub 2232 2.17% 2264
Drops table header 2156 2.1% 2159
Drops table row 2123 2.07% 8365
Skill infobox/historical 2066 2.01% 9994
Rarity 1800 1.75% 6443
Related traits 1703 1.66% 1744
Defiance 1687 1.64% 1752
Sic 1640 1.6% 2253
Vendor query table 1602 1.56% 1910
Gathered from 1540 1.5% 1545
Heart 1532 1.49% 2946
Quotation 1521 1.48% 1807
PvP recipe 1514 1.48% 1580
Bug 1507 1.47% 1564
Environmental skill table header 1455 1.42% 1721
Environmental skill table row 1455 1.42% 5072
Map objective 1397 1.36% 3881
Equipment variant table header 1350 1.32% 1425
Equipment variant table row 1349 1.31% 4625
Trait infobox 1322 1.29% 1322
Trinket infobox 1314 1.28% 1314
Trait infobox/historical 1287 1.25% 4995
Trait icon 1283 1.25% 4748
Anomaly 1279 1.25% 1290
Skill icon 1264 1.23% 6180
Event boss 1259 1.23% 1838
Vendor table header 1244 1.21% 1896
Vendor table row 1243 1.21% 18511
Achievement box 1238 1.21% 1946
Coin 1215 1.18% 13509
Vendor 1193 1.16% 4412
Gathering node 1139 1.11% 5043
Achievement list 1133 1.1% 1159
Area events 1130 1.1% 1130
Waypoint 1107 1.08% 3667
Rewarded by 1033 1.01% 1034
Recipe list by discipline 1027 1.0% 1027
Rows in the above table are shown in red when the template name, as shown in the table, contains one of the terms listed above.
Rows in the above table are shown in orange when the template name, as shown in the table but with all lower case letters, contains one of the terms listed above.
I.e. red rows will match in either case and orange ones only when the matching performed by the AbuseFilter's case insensitive.
Y'all may want to consider to include the templates that which are not highlighted in the table above, or parts thereof, in such a revisement as well. Nightsky (talk) 19:39, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
I don't see the point in relaxing the restrictions yet. If there is a necessary edit to be made, an admin can do it :P --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 21:03, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Yeah that's exactly why I want to slightly relax the restriction. For info, there were only 14 edits attempted in spite of the big red hand message. I've made some tweaks, visible at the filter link I shared above. Most high traffic templates are still locked. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just a quick update about the SMW issue that the wikis have been having since the last update. We've been working with external support and we think that we've nailed down the culprit to a few components of the wiki stack. We're now working on validating the theory and then testing ways to fix that. I do not know how quickly we'll be able to implement and test a fix, but I will update you as soon as we know. --Stephane Lo Presti talk 21:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

That's good news Stephane, thank you for the update. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 17:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Fwiw I've disabled the filters today. Please don't go absolutely crazy with the edits but hopefully nothing should break due to the patch applied earlier in the week. -Chieftain AlexUser Chieftain Alex sig.png 18:00, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Redirect categorization[edit]

Template:Redirect is used to categorize redirects. There seems to be one type that's not accounted for: redirects to official terms that aren't significant enough to warrant their own articles and hence appear as subsections of other pages. For example, Altar Brook Lair redirects to Guild Trek#Altar Brook Lair. Note that redirects to subsections could fall into the existing redirect categories so they probably shouldn't be all lumped together. Currently, some of the subsection redirects are in the "common term" category, despite not properly fitting its description. Altar Brook Lair is not a commonly used variant or alternate name for anything, but it clearly shouldn't have its own page. I can see four options.

  1. Create a new category for these and add it to the template (once the namespace is editable again).
  2. Put them into the parent category, [[Category:Redirects]]. This can be achieved by leaving out the template parameter (which the documentation wrongly states is required).
  3. Put them into [[Category:Common term redirects]] and broaden its description.
  4. Stop categorizing redirects altogether if it's not a good idea to begin with.

Kumiponi (talk) 20:19, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Dropped by issue[edit]

Before I will start talking about the issue first I would like to say what that template is. For those who dont know. Template dropped by pulls information from the enemy page and showing it on the item page. The issue is that there are a lot of regional/map things (items, currencies ect.) that do not drop strightly from these enemies but from any enemy inside that specific map or a region. The best example would be Eye of Kormir that has a chance to drop from any enemy in Crystal Oasis or Unbound Magic . The item page itself doesnt even use the second half of this template to show specific enemies. Insted there is one small sentence telling where it can drop. I've went over these items months ago and deleted them from all the enemy pages but sooner or later editors started to add them back again. To not been forced to manualy clean it every month there were few ideas how to solve this problem. First was to create a Project. Sadly editors would first need to know about this project to not add these items again. Second option was to update this Drops table row template to exclude these items and currencies. Exclude as having just a red warning message apear insted of the items themselfs. Telling the editor that these shouldnt be added or having a link to a page where we would have the explanation writen down. I made a small list of these items and currencies at User:DiegoDeLaHouska/sandbox1 but there might be some items be missing . If you can think of any please add them into the list. Please let us know your oppinion how this issue can be best handled and why you think its the best way. Thank you for your time reading it and for your answers --DiegoDeLaHouska (talk) 21:28, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I do not think a templated solution is the way to go, but at least we could add the list of drops not-to-be-added to the NPC formatting page. ~Sime 01:47, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

The whole firebrand rework with new variable page count costs in tomes[edit]

How is this going to be implemented on wiki? I am not sure where to put the tomes' page information and such so I haven't touched any of the following

    • Justice
    • Resolve
      • Chapter 1- Desert Bloom.png
         Chapter 1: 1 page, no cooldown
      • Chapter 2- Radiant Recovery.png
         Chapter 2: (PvE) 1 page, 4 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 1 page, 8 seconds
      • Chapter 3- Azure Sun.png
         Chapter 3: 1 page, 8 seconds
      • Chapter 4- Shining River.png
         Chapter 4: (PvE) 2 pages, 10 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 15 seconds
      • Epilogue- Eternal Oasis.png
         Epilogue: (PvE) 2 pages, 20 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 3 pages, 25 seconds
    • Courage
      • Chapter 1- Unflinching Charge.png
         Chapter 1: 1 page, no cooldown
      • Chapter 2- Daring Challenge.png
         Chapter 2: (PvE) 1 page, 4 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 8 seconds
      • Chapter 3- Valiant Bulwark.png
         Chapter 3: (PvE) 2 pages, 15 seconds; (PvP/WvW) 2 pages, 20 seconds
      • Chapter 4- Stalwart Stand.png
         Chapter 4: 2 pages, 20 seconds
      • Epilogue- Unbroken Lines.png
         Epilogue: 3 pages, 25 seconds

--Life Infusion «T» 03:23, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps we can do something similar to the thief skills. We can add a pages parameter (and pages wvw and pages pvp) to the infobox which will show the FB pages diamond icon like it does for initiative Initiative.png (not sure if the wiki has the icon already) --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 04:43, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Apparently ingame Arenanet hasn't done anything with respect to page cost indicators besides the tooltip text. Maybe my avoidance of editing those pages is unfounded although the API link for them doesn't have anything. --Life Infusion «T» 04:45, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Oh, then just adding the page cost to the skill facts is probably fine. --BuffsEverywhere (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
Two remarks:
  • The skill fact "Page Cost" has the icon File:Maximum Count.png. In order to avoid confusions with the maximum count skill fact as well as not torturing the wiki with a large scale template edit right now I simply just added the "icon" parameter, namely: {{skill fact|Page Cost|1|icon=Maximum Count.png}}. Of course later on we can add the "page cost" skill fact to automatically take the correct icon.
  • Sure, why not, we could definitely add the page cost in the infobox statistics bar (recharge, activation, etc...). We could extract the icon from File:1636724.png.
--Tolkyria (talk) 19:08, 30 November 2022 (UTC)