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I moved your discussion over here and if you want to discuss changes towards our stance on speculation then you can go here and submit your opinion. Probably easier to register first, though. I think I'm supposed to put up a IP message or something, can't remember...(Xu Davella 03:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC))

hello IP[edit]

Although there aren't any rules per se about deleting comments on your talk page, I don't see why you'd be removing something that you yourself created. Although I agree that it should have been moved to the other talk page as the comment was for the other individual and not yourself. In the future, if you are looking to say something specific to a specific person, try to message them directly on their talk page instead of on the talk page of a main space article. Hope this helps, Cheers. Venom20 User Venom20-icon-0602-sm-black.png 22:21, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Far Far Too Far :([edit]

moved from Talk:Engineer

I have to say this way too far of a depature from GW roots. Yes, the timeline has progressed a bit however; landmines, a handcrank style gatling gun turret, modern looking grenades alongside a mechanized shields that absorbs magic???!!! Seriously, this is GW not HALO, Call of Duty or Holy Glue Grenade Batman! Very disappointed here. From an earthly historical perspective once bullets & black powder came along armor, bows & melee weapons went out of style real fast. So why why why did anet think this one was a good idea??? Personally, I thought the Asuran Golems went a little far. Now this, ugh. Not sure if I'll be purchasing GW2 or not now. The last thing I wanted to see GW2 be was a industrial age shooter. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).

Another one? Geez. 1) Landmines are nothing more than pressure-activated grenades. Grenades are nothing more than timed explosives. Explosives are nothing more than volatile chemicals. Explosives were in use in GW1 via powder kegs, fire oil, Charr Explosives, etc. 2) A handcrank is nothing more than a lever and a gear. A gear is nothing more than a notched wheel. These are all very basic machines/concepts. 3) The cannon was in use long before large-scale melee combat began its decline. 3) In what edition of Halo or CoD have you seen magic/alchemy? I didn't think so. Magic and alchemy are abundant in GW1. Implying GW2 deviates from its roots proves a lack of understanding of those very roots. 4) Nobody is forcing you to play, nor will I personally feel anything but positivity if you choose not to. I'd rather not play with closed-minded people. If you have nothing constructive to add, troll elsewhere. Teddy Dan 20:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Wow, thank you for the personal attacks. Clearly, Teddy Dan, you missed the point of my post. It was a critique of the setting or atmosphere this profession creates within the game, not a discussion of mechanial aptitude. Please follow your own advice.

Please indent your comments. Clearly, you missed the point of the Engineer. Read the quote offered by Leoko, toward the bottom of the page. This new profession doesn't break any atmosphere that wasn't meant to be broken. Your critique is nothing but melodramatic QQing over a subject you haven't researched. On a side note, ignorance makes me irritable and I become quite verbally abrasive because of it. That is neither an apology or an excuse, but an explanation. Also, it wasn't a personal attack because I never actually said you, specifically, are closed-minded. Only that I'd rather not play with those sort of people. The same goes for my "ignorance makes me irritable" comment. :D Teddy Dan 21:15, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
I am sorry to say this Teddy Dan, but your replies to anyone who has anything negative to say about the Engineer class are indeed nothing short of personal attacks. They are frustrating and uncalled for.
I happen to agree with the OP. The engineer class as it stands just doesn't feel right in the world of Guild Wars. Yes, we understand that technology has developed over 250 years since the original Guild Wars. The art of spearthrowing was forgotten and guns made their debut during that time. I can accept that if I have to (spears being my preferred weapon in fantasy RPGs). What I can't accept is the degree to which this Engineer has taken it. It has nothing to do with "explosives" in general. It has to do with the types being used and the vibe they give to the game. Modern-age mines, grenades, etc. feel out of place in the Guild Wars that I know and love in a way that, say, vials of explosive potions would not. 21:46, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) (Edit conflict) (Edit conflict) Teddy, it wasn't a personal attack when it was first called out, but it's starting to become one. (Note this was typed before IPs comments)) Keep cool. Anyways... "once bullets & black powder came along armor, bows & melee weapons went out of style real fast" China invented guns around the 12th century, and the Japanese gave swords to infantry during WWII. "industrial age shooter" The Engineer's actual usage of guns seems to be quite limited. And only two other professions can use guns so far... On a side note however, I don't think neither Halo nor CoD have "handcrank style gatling gun turrets" or" magical shields that absorb magic." -User Eive Windgrace Harbinger of the Deceiver.png 21:51, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
They're plenty short of personal attacks. Short enough that they aren't personal, but general. What's frustrating is seeing multiple sections created just so each individual can have their own section to say they don't like the new profession based on false information or a lack thereof. My negative opinions are of their negative opinions. In so being, they're just as called-for.
A lot changes in 250+ years. Two and a half centuries. How far did you think humans have advanced, technologically, between the 1600s and the 1800s? It was clearly more than an upgrade from rocks to rocks AND sticks. There is nothing any more "modern-age" about these mines than a tripwire grenade. You're trying to take everything but magic out of the fantasy genre to suit your personal tastes. Should we ditch metalworking because it's more technological than magical? How about tanning? Sharpening rocks to use as arrowheads? Technology is present even without electronics. The wheel was a technological advancement. It isn't so out of place to put gunpowder in a tube and toss it. Teddy Dan 22:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm getting a bit dangerous. Frankly, everyone's just repeating the same things over and over and it's making me offensive. I apologize for any hurt feelings. Teddy Dan 22:05, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
"it's making me offensive" if you know this, then just walk away for a bit. The wiki isn't going anywhere, it'll be here when you return. Venom20 User Venom20-icon-0602-sm-black.png 22:08, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
@Teddy Dan: Your second paragraph in the above comment paragraph is more what your initial post should have said to state your opinion without being directly aggressive.
My own feelings are that gun usage is fine. The Warrior and the Thief both use guns successfully. That's not what causes me to refute the Engineer. I'm even fine with the turrets (although it's not my personal style). It's the explosives that go beyond that that get to me. As stated, it's the atmosphere in the game that the Engineer brings that is out-of-place, not necessarily the fact that there's any technology. 22:13, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
But flooded with yet more misinformed "me no liek duz not fit" sections. I'm trying to nip the multiple-sections-for-one-argument problem in the bud, without any help. They need to be merged into one section, either by removing some of the section dividers or by discontinuing their individual sections where they are and continuing each of them in one separate section. Also, being the "just walk away" type is something I'm still working on. This is a relapse. >.> Teddy Dan 22:16, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The charr have a racial skill that uses mines. No sarcasm, but are you opposed to that too? If so, to be technical, an explosive needs only a confined space, a charge and an accelerant. GW1's Flame Trap likely utilized an explosive of some sort. Grenades are simply hand-held Flame Traps/Shrapnel Mines. Again, no sarcasm or hostility intended in any of this comment. Teddy Dan 22:21, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
To be quite honest, yes. However, I can accept a few skills from the charr being more technologically advanced more readily than I can a whole class revolving around such things. 22:30, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
I will admit that it bothered me that such technology would be available to the more natural norn, but then I remembered that Budger Blackpowder was often seen around Sifhalla. There's nothing to suggest that the native norn, as perpetually eager to find new ways to vanquish foes as they were, would not have enlisted his aid or his explosive technology. The sylvari are also, by lore, an incredibly curious and adaptable race. I suppose I'm simply more eager to make sense of debatable concepts. Although, I am admittedly guilty of my fair share of dismissal (as per my buff casters vs. twiggy fighters rants). GW2 is a new game. It isn't supposed to be just like GW1. It's supposed to offer a new atmosphere. Some may like it, some may not. We'll just have to wait and see what the finished product looks like, eh? Teddy Dan 22:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

For any one who thinks this class might be too technologically based, specifically the grenades and mines, did you sop to think these could be more magically based than you think. No where I read states what exactly cause the effects of the grenade. In GW1 we have seen that crystals can have a number of effects, so could these mines and grenades just be a delivery system for the crystal. If this was the case it would not necessarily break the atmosphere of the game. If any one can find a ref to disprove me all the better, as I would not like to be misinformed on this topic. Also explosive grenades could easly been used along side swords, and would be much simpler to make than guns, as they can be made crudely and still work (gun powder in a clay pot) as with land mines, only slightly more complex. Lfreak 04:28, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I honestly don't understand whats so freaking hard to comprehend about a world that already had gunpowder, 250 years later, learning to use guns. They already had canons, bombs, and other explosive items. Technically speaking they should already be landing on the moon, if we applied a real-life timeline.--BriarUser Briar Sig 3.jpgThe Spider 09:49, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Once again, let me reiterate that it's not the using of guns per se that anyone is annoyed about. It's the atmosphere and feeling that this crazy profession brings to the table. As stated, if the profession tossed explosive potions, it would have a different feel to it than "an idustrial age shooter," as the OP put it. We would have looked into a different game if this was the atmosphere we wanted. 22:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Then look into a different game. Anet TOLD US GW2 would be different. I don't see the problem, unless people have forgotten the definition of "different". Teddy Dan 23:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Well my point was that if you felt it ruined the atmosphere and its not stated what for sure makes the grenades have their effect you can say and believe what every you want, I mean if its an MMORPG use a bit more of the RPG and say this is why I am using grenades right next to or against a spellcaster. You could just RP your engineer using arcane technology, as long as you have nothing directly contradicting you no one can argue against it. (By the way this the whole Fable can't feature guns argument all over again). Lfreak 00:11, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Too "different,". I will be giving up on GW2 because of the Engineer. The simple fix would have been to keep the mechanics, but to roll them into a different package. 12:54, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Say what you want the Engineer does not fit into GW 2. A retarded class that only uses 3 types of weapons, runs around plants turrets (BRINK ALL THE WAY) plants landmines, throws granades and bombs and MMMMMM WTF USES FLAMETHROWER?!?!!??!!?!?!? AAAA FUCKING FLAMETHROWER ???? AND U GUYS SAY it fits the gw 2 world. Yeah right....Worse part is most people will play this shit, run around the map throw granades everywhere go in groups of 4-10 engineers in pvp and pve and demolish everything they attack. Warriors,Guardians and the Thiefs wont stand a chance against this shit, he bombs them from huge distance, he can poison them,freeze them,knock them down, and deal huge damage with granades, he can make turrets which shot from a big distance then if they manage to somehow get close to kill the Engineer he just slips oil on the ground rools back and throws more granades and kill you. SO YEAH OVERPOWERED PIECE OF SHIT AND DON'T SAY THAT IT WONT BE EVEN THO MOST OF YOU PROTECT THIS PROFESSION DEEP INSIDE YOU YOU KNOW THAT ITS GOING TO BE OVERPOWERED AND OUT OF PLACE.

Please sign your comments. Also: A necromancer with a staff and a scepter and offhand dagger can apply nearly every condition to multiple enemies at a time, apply a number of boons to her allies, pump out AoE healing, remove every buff groups of enemies have and replace it with conditions...and have a free utility skill and elite skill slot left over. We don't know anything about whether something is over- or under-powered, because the game hasn't been released, let alone the engineer, considering we're missing out of almost all of its skills. Literally all we know about the engineer--and all you're panicking about--comes from skill videos, which make everything look insanely powerful on purpose: look at the Spread Shot video on the ranger page--you don't seriously believe that all it takes is two shots from a bow to kill seven enemies at once, do you? ~Ekko (talk) 19:18, 24 May 2011 (UTC)




2) ALL THOSE WHO MOVE/DELETE the posts of and/or MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS or try to CENSOR those who say so do too. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk).

It was merely moved. Also, personal attacks are not acceptable. - Infinite - talk 17:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Please refrain from insulting users. -User Eive Windgrace Harbinger of the Deceiver.png 17:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)


moved from Talk:Engineer

BECAUSE SOME @#!*% (INFINITE)KEEPS MOVING/DELETING THIS. Two Thoughts Simply Put; 1) THIS CLASS SUCKS 2) ALL THOSE WHO MOVE/DELETE(Infinite & Xu) the posts of and/or MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS(Teddy Dan) or try to CENSOR(those previously mentioned)those who say so do too. If you like curtailing freedom of speech and censorship so much then go to freakin' China or someother tyrannical country. Personally, I am a red-blooded American Veteran who has fought to uphold people freedom of speech as expressed under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. That said I find the arbitrary CENSORSHIP practices of pissants like you intolerable.

I will continue to repost this as necessary. Someone above mentioned you're like the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld. I couldn't agree more.

Heya! I moved this back to your userspace because a couple of things. First: this totally isn't discussing the content of the Engineer page, which is what this discussion page is for. Second: No one is censoring anything--we're moving this to a different place so that everything can be more efficient and helpful to the community as a whole. Third: a couple of wiki policies that are applicable--Assume Good Faith, 1RV, and Avoid Personal Attacks. Fourth: the First Amendment applies only to the actions of US Governmental bodies, not private citizens who may not be affiliated with the US alone. Fifth: The internet does not belong to the US, nor does it follow the laws of America or any other country. Have a nice day! ~Ekko (talk) 18:39, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Please desist with slandering me, as I have made no personal attacks. Calling someone, especially specifically by name (whether in parenthesis or not), a " @#!*% " is a direct personal attack. So is calling someone a "pissant". On a side note, numerous individuals have been and apparently still are telling you that your personal opinion of the profession in question does not belong on the talk page of the article dedicated to documenting factual information about said profession. To add to that, simply saying something sucks, without any evidence to support such a claim, is not a discussion. It is no more than in insult. It offers nothing to build on. Please, in the future, if you have an opinion of something and wish to express it on a discussion page of any sort, provide at least some information to support it. Lastly, if you continue to repost what has been moved numerous times for valid reasons, the chances of you being banned will continue to rise. That is all. My apologies, you've already been banned. I do not intend to salt the wound. Teddy Dan 20:35, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I didn't even move any of the discussions and I'm being included. I feel so special! --Xu Davella 14:26, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
If we are so intolerable, just leave then. Main space discussion pages are to discuss edits to the article, not to discuss your own personal opinion. If you want to do that, hit a forum, but don't do it here. Also, just because you are American does not mean you don't have to follow the same editing and discussion guidelines that everyone else on this wiki does. That's great you fought for freedom of speech; it means close to (or probably) nothing on this wiki. (On a side note, I've met a lot of army veterans, in person or online. They never speak like that.) Aqua (T|C) 15:39, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
He isn't fighting for his freedom of speech, he just wants to push his opinion on us. Freedom of speech is a lot more complicated. Ge4ce-Talk-Contribs 15:57, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
I call on Schenk v. United States!!! .... not quite sure how his forcing his opinion on us presents a clear and present danger to the interests of our safety... but oh well. ;) I just find it funny that he's trying to present American laws (out of context, somewhat) to validate his actions on the internet, where a few more countries are involved... hehe ^^ 16:11, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Come to think of it, this IP sounds very familiar to another guy whom we ran into a while ago... --Xu Davella 14:38, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Let it go guys. - Infinite - talk 14:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

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