Talk:Mini-dungeon

figuring out proper referencing, meanwhile the reference link isn't according to wiki standards, apologies Ee 08:39, 10 March 2012 (UTC) Figured it out. Ee 08:56, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Mini-dungeons from Explorer achievement

Just noting this here, since we now have specific "Jumping Puzzle" and "Bosses" achievement categories, I'm going to be looking at the "Explorer" achievements and adding them to this list as appropriate (as well as visiting them in-game and getting more information for the individual pages). Mini-dungeons come in a variety of styles. The reason I am not just combining these with the Explorer achievement page is because A) not all those achievements are mini-dungeons since exploration and dungeon achievements are also here and B) there are obvious and noted mini-dungeons in existence that do not have achievements (such as Flame Temple Tombs and Provernic Crypt).

Of note right now is that there might be some overlap as some consider any area with any jumping in it to be a jumping puzzle (particularly Vexa's Lab at this moment). I think really that only the ones with a jumping puzzle achievement should be categorized as such, since ArenaNet was nice to add that specific category, allowing the rest to be described as a mini-dungeon. For now, I'll be adding the areas to this list as I find out which ones are mini-dungeons (meaning a whole area you have to progress through to the end, possibly with puzzles or bosses) vs a small cave in the ground with a chest or boss. Vahkris 20:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

We call jumping puzzles with no achievement "mini-puzzles", all jumping puzzles can be considered mini-dungeons. Any mini-puzzles can be adding to the Jumping puzzle page.--Relyk 20:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

That would make some sense for jumping areas with no achievement. However, the two areas I mention above have no jumping areas, so they don't fit what you describe as a mini-puzzle. Provernic Crypt should not be on the jumping puzzle page at all, actually, since there's no jumping section. Vahkris 20:20, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Well of course, Provernic Crypt is a mini-dungeon. I'm saying if the mini-dungeon has jumping puzzle elements, it'll go in the mini-puzzle section on jumping puzzles.--Relyk 22:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The presence of jumping elements at all doesn't exactly make it a jumping puzzle. In fact, I'd say that should default to just being a mini-dungeon unless it's almost entirely jumping, at least until it gets an achievement or is referred otherwise. Vahkris 14:27, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent)

• Players refer to "jumping puzzle" as anything that requires jumping and/or requires special mechanics (e.g. opening gates, avoiding traps, ...), including things like the Vista in the dredge area in the middle of Dredgehaunt Cliffs.
• There is nothing dungeon-like about any of the ones on the list that I have visited/completed: many (e.g. Provenic) are entered by walking from the main instance, all are part of the main instance (i.e. you participate in map chat, you see the loading screen of the zone, you get the world map centered on the zone). Although many include a portal (to enter or exit), they don't take you away from the main map.
• The game has achievements for dungeons and for jumping puzzles, but not for mini-dungeon.

So why are we using mini-dungeon (especially spelled without a space or hyphen) as if it's a term useful for understanding the game? Why not stick with

• Dungeon (there are a fixed number)
• Jumping Puzzle (those that have achievements and rewards)
• Other (those that are not official JPs nor official dungeons, but are notable because they are difficult, time consuming, and often are associated with a minor reward (chest, vista, POI, ...).

Provenic is "other" -- it has traps and a special mechanic and culminates in a special reward, but there's no achievement. Forsake Fortune is a Jumping Puzzle -- it's listed under the Jumping Puzzle achievement.

I don't support the use of the phrase unless it is better defined

75.37.20.27 02:07, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

They referred to "minidungeon" for the first time in recent update notes, so I moved it, but have gone back to "mini-dungeon". Either way, mini-dungeon is an official term and inherently vague. Most of the Explorer achievements take place in minidungeons. The official usage of jumping puzzle refers to the actual jumping puzzles, but people use it to refer to any location with platforming elements. The difference is whether you call it a "jumping puzzle" or a jumping puzzle :3--Relyk 02:21, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

@IP 75.37.20.27: The term "mini-dungeon" actually comes straight from ArenaNet, told to us in description of what is now called the Flame Temple Tombs during the first BWE that Diessa Plateau became available.

Jumping Puzzle refers to what now falls under the achievement category, and previously only what had an achievement (sans the few which were mixed in like Crashed Landing) though since more places got achievements since we can't use "has an achievement" in of itself. Furthermore, at some point were were told that jumping puzzles were a type of mini-dungeon. Basically: if it has an achievement for exploring a location which is finished by only exploring that one location, it's a mini-dungeon, and there are two kinds of mini-dungeons - standard and jumping puzzle. Konig/talk 02:36, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Look at Flanum's comment. He he puts "mini-dungeons" in quotes -- that means he's using the term descriptively -- it's a way to compare things, it's not an official term. Let's not elevate the word to an article. There are dungeons and there are jumping puzzles. There are no mini-dungeons in the game, just parts of the game that have a few similarities with dungeons. 75.36.180.174 19:49, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Do you have an official term then? Mini-dungeon is the only term we've ever seen used by ArenaNet outside jumping puzzle to describe these things. It's the closest to an official term we have. Mini-dungeons have been used to describe these areas since we first learned of them, by ArenaNet even if descriptive. They are not jumping puzzles as there are many which, while puzzles (which some dungeons do contain puzzles and traps), do not contain jumping. They are small dungeons (hence "mini-dungeons" or "miniature/miniaturized dungeons") that exist in the persistent world. Jumping puzzles are a kind of these. Konig/talk 20:03, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

They specifically refer to these areas as "minidungeons" in the November 1 patch notes. "On October 22nd, we added new minidungeons, jumping puzzles, and events to several areas" and then they proceed to note that Dredgehaunt Cliffs and Fireheart Rise had a minidungeon added. The pieces of content added in these areas were Vexa's Lab and Forsaken Halls. Both have an Explorer achievement AFAIK, not a Jumping Puzzle achievement (if they were jumping puzzles the achievement would be there instead). They are distinguishing jumping puzzles from minidungeons. We added Provernic Crypt here because it's a similar setup (traps, puzzle, champion boss, and a chest at the end), despite not having an achievement at all. Flame Temple Tombs doesn't either, AFAIK, but that was the first minidungeon we heard about. ArenaNet officially uses that term to describe this content, and has multiple times. As far as using the hyphen, I think it's interchangeable for now, so as long as they redirect to each other I don't care which one is used.Vahkris 15:05, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

They all but stopped using "minidungeon" after that and everyone else in the world says mini-dungeon or mini dungeon. I think we're safe.--Relyk 15:14, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Difficulty rating

Could the difficulty rating be added to current list? I mean that while some mini-dungeons are designed to be completed solo (with enemies up to Elite), some other have the Champion enemies with Group Event which are supposed to defeat in group. Sure, some champion bosses also can be defeated solo, but it's not a common case. Such additional info (a new column maybe) could be a great help. --213.248.166.94 14:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)