Talk:Legendary Imbued Shaman

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70.82.113.198 (talk • contribs • logs • block log)

Keeps editing the Legendary Imbued Shaman page to make the race an elemental, when it's a demon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frusen (talk) at 16:44, 14 April 2019 (UTC).

I've reviewed the history of the NPC's page and the IP's edits. Based on that, I see that IP simply wanted to document the NPC as it is in the game, either based on the history of the NPC or their own research, which is not vandalism. If you wish to discuss/debate the race of the NPC further, bring it up on the NPC's talk page, but please avoid reverting it back to demon until more extensive research can be done. One other note, please sign your comments using ~~~~. - Do_odleplex 17:32, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Except there is. It basis for classifying it as an elemental. His whole point that demons didn’t exist as a race at launch is completely incorrect. He’s also propagating myths that elemental pots and sigils affect the boss when it’s been proven over and over and over that they don’t work. This is just blinding arrogance and it’s to the detriment of the accuracy of the wiki Frusen (talk) 09:27, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Since you're both being annoying I've removed all information regarding elementals and demons from the page and protected it against future edits for one month until you can agree anything. --Chieftain Alex 10:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

So instead of actually seeing I've provided evidence to say it's a demon, you just remove accurate info from the wiki because the other guy was holding it to ransom? Peak modding 10:11, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

The evidence provided on reddit was a link to a google document which wasn't open access at the time i checked. To kill this argument we need the evidence to be clear and available for future discussion, see below. -Chieftain Alex 13:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

This mob is not an elemental, and is affected by NEITHER the elemental sigil NOR the elemental potion. It IS affected by the demon potion, but not the sigil (since it's bugged), so please stop 'correcting' it when you're making the wiki WRONG —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Frusen (talk) at 14:29, 12 April 2019‎ (UTC).

As I've said before, at the time Legendary Imbued Shaman was put into the game, the actual Demon race wasn't a thing yet. Yes, imps and fleshreavers are considered demonic beings in-lore, but the first actual mechanical demon that made it into the game as far as I'm aware is Deimos (and even there I'm not really even sure 100%). As such, all items referring to Demons, as you pointed out, refer to imps at their very core, and that's it. As well, even contextually, it wouldn't make sense to label this creature a demon since it is simply the transmuted version of the grawl shaman encountered in the fractal, which was never a demon in the first place. 70.82.113.198 23:36, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Demons have always existed lol. And by your logic, it should be a grawl still. At least be consistent in your ignorance. Also, if you don't believe the data that says it is affected by demon pots and unaffected by elemental pots, go test it yourself. It's so annoying having to dispell myths because you can't be bothered to educate yourself on how the game actually works. But feel free to educate yourself here, if you can’t be bothered to investigates it yourself https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/azgpqg/on_the_inaccuracy_of_the_demonslaying_sigil Frusen (talk) 09:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

For the purposes of the infobox, it is describing the mechanical race. As proven below (#Data), the mechanical race for the purposes of Potions is a Demon.

It does look a bit like an elemental, and an elemental slaying potion no doubt helps versus the summoned Lava Elementals, but that isn't what we're looking for the infobox. -Chieftain Alex 13:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Is a demon, not an elemental https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/azgpqg/on_the_inaccuracy_of_the_demonslaying_sigil Frusen (talk) 09:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I'll admit I was wrong about the elemental buffing items affecting this creature. But that's it. I'll stand by everything else I said before. My entire point is that the term Demon used by items that were released at launch was a catch-all term used to cover other creatures such as Imps, Fleshreavers and Nightmare mobs. So by that logic, those naming categories should be scrapped and all replaced with Demon because a couple in-game items say so? Also, lore-wise, despite what you claimed before, this creature is nothing more than a lava-infused transmuted grawl. Last I checked, hurling yourself down into a volcano doesn't magically turn you into a demon. 70.35.211.3 13:21, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Last I checked, performing magical rites and sacrificing yourself is 100% the thing that turns you into a demon. - Felix Omni 14:58, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I guess that can be a viewpoint on that, although I don't see it nor agree with it. Nothing in the fractal really hints at any kind of demon-summoning, except if you consider pushing civilians to their death into a volcano and comitting suicide via submerging yourself in lava to be worthy of that, which I don't, really. But still, that's besides the point I'm making. 70.35.211.3 15:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Data

To put a conclusive end to this disagreement between two editors, I've gone and spent an hour in the fractal testing sigils and potions. I arranged my traits such that I had no bonuses other than my character's base precision (5%), I then ignored critical hits. I selected a masterwork weapon (a hammer) from the Trading Post with a damage range of 811 to 914. This has a midpoint of 862.5 (94.37% of max possible non-critical damage).

Sigil test

I purchased three of the above hammers, and outfitted them with the following sigils:

• Superior Sigil of Centaur Slaying - +3% flat, +7% vs centaurs (evidently this foe is not a centaur, we can agree on that, so only the +3% counts here)
• Superior Sigil of Demon Slaying - +3% flat, +7% vs demons
• Superior Sigil of Elemental Slaying - +3% flat, +7% vs elementals

Test	Sample size (hits)	Max	Min	Midpoint	Midpoint %
Superior Sigil of Centaur Slaying	55	360	321	340.5	94.6%
Superior Sigil of Demon Slaying	83	360	319	339.5	94.3%
Superior Sigil of Elemental Slaying	55	360	316	338.0	93.9%

If I'd kept hitting the target to increase the sample size, then eventually the midpoint percentage would have tended towards the 94.37% indicated by the weapon's damage range.

The three midpoints are very similar. If the slaying Sigil triggered, we'd expect a different Midpoint of circa 364. Therefore none of the slaying sigils have triggered.

There are two possible conclusions here: (1) The Legendary Imbued Shaman is neither a Centaur, Demon nor Elemental, or (2) the Legendary Imbued Shaman is a Centaur, Demon or Elemental, but the Sigil bonus is bugged.

Potion test

I also purchased two Powerful Slaying potions:

• No potion - for comparison, I used the centaur slaying sigil weapon above as the baseline - +3% flat
• Powerful Potion of Demon Slaying + the centaur slaying sigil weapon - +3% flat, +10% vs demons
• Powerful Potion of Elemental Slaying + the centaur slaying sigil weapon - +3% flat, +10% vs elementals

Test	Sample size (hits)	Max	Min	Midpoint	Midpoint %
No potion	55	360	321	340.5	94.6%
Powerful Potion of Demon Slaying	69	396	351	373.5	94.3%
Powerful Potion of Elemental Slaying	62	360	320	340.0	94.4%

The sample size midpoint percentages are also exactly where we want them to be, indicating a good dataset.

The Demon Slaying Potion midpoint is significantly (+9.7%) higher than the other two midpoints, therefore I can conclude that this potion triggered.

Conclusions

• Legendary Imbued Shaman is indeed a Demon.
• Superior Sigil of Demon Slaying is bugged and does not trigger versus Demons.

Therefore a Superior Sigil of Force will deal more damage (2%) than the defective slaying sigil. --Chieftain Alex 12:44, 22 April 2019 (UTC)