Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Requests for adminship/Infinite

Infinite

Infinite (talk • contribs • logs • block log)

I am nominating this editor for adminship. --Lania 04:46, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

After consideration and some advise from users, I have decided to accept the nomination. - Infinite - talk 12:14, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Status

Successful, promoted to sysop. 21:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Candidate statement

Hey there! You probably know me as Infinite (or Tremythar). I have to admit that this nomination does not come as a surprise to me.

I've been on GW2W since December 2009, which is arguably quite a long time ago for this wiki. Where I started out as an absolute newbie, I had some previous wiki experiences and skills that I could apply here. GWW is one of those previous wikis; since December 2008 I've been present on GWW. I must admit that experiences on both wikis are both eerily similar and strikingly different. That said, wiki code is universal in this regard, so I sort of knew what I was doing back then.

I've grown a lot since, I'll be the first to admit. My interest in coding (mainly designs) sparked and I started getting involved with the community on a much larger scale. After that everything progressed rapidly for me. I was getting involved in many discussions: superficial and near-meaningless discussions, actually detrimental discussions, constructive discussions, and even mind-boggling changing-everything discussions. The most important discussion in my earlier days here (from my perspective) has got to be the discussion in Category_talk:Root. I genuinely disagreed with the GW2W category tree (and still do, but unfortunately help is hardly available where hands are most welcomed). I figured the only way to change that was to open the discussion myself. This worked out better than I expected; I had constructive criticism and comments submitted and the restructuring in the basics started being formed. It subsequently resulted in (probably) the most wiki-altering project to date here. It's still open and still active (as stated, we really could use more input and help (or a bot)).

From there on out I started getting involved with the wiki in general. Many other changes followed, which were not always received eagerly. Notably my stance on speculation led to a change in talk page practises; speculation and revision unrelated discussions were cut back to a minimum to reduce chaos and plausibly detrimental content from discussion pages, in the hope they see their actual use anew. I feel this is a positive change, still. There are many more examples of how I challenge the wiki to think with the eyes set on the horizon, instead of the past. You may judge my current presence on this wiki from any of the above, or otherwise. That is not what's directly important now.

What is important, however, is my statement as to why I feel this wiki would benefit from me with sysop tools. Honestly, after much thought I still don't truly know. I have had no administrative experience on wikis before. I was always viewed as a potential power user with a lot of risks (be it due to my attitude, my stances, or even my personality). Of late I don't agree with any of those previous objections. I feel that, if my RfA would be resolved as successful, I would be capable and able of living up to the voice of the community. It's just that I often felt much more useful as a regular user, with regular input.

Now, I'm not too sure of that anymore. I was hoping the new RfA phase would present us with a bunch of nominations. I was secretly hoping I wouldn't need to try to get in a seat myself. Even yesterday I wasn't sure; User_talk:Infinite#I_nominated_you_:D_.21.21. And I'm still not sure if I'm going to live up to the hype (because that's also what this is, frankly; I'm partially nominated because I'm extremely present here). Let it be known that if I receive additional tools, I will be asking questions and help whenever I'm in doubt. I'm not recklessly going to be using these tools to speed up janitorial tasks without eye for the content. Recently my tagging very new deletion tags with a speedy parameter sparked a few discussions to retain, move, or merge the content instead. Some sparked by me, but some started by others. I believe this is vital anyway, so I wasn't surprised (in fact, I was expecting this in some cases).

I can't be a dream sysop from day 1. I don't want to be a dream sysop from day 1, either. Were I to be seated after this, I will need and want the time to learn the ways of sysophood before I'm going to be anything like a dream sysop. Can I do it? I can't guarantee it. I can however promise that I will not change the person and user who I am now. If you (that is the community, or you as reader) support me in that light it is because of who I am as a user now, not for the user I should be instead. I would just be Infinite with sysop tools. I would not use the tools to further any personal agenda.

In short; you probably know me, you know how I work around the wiki, you may or may not trust me in this position, and I can't promise I'll be the perfect candidate in short timeframe. I can however promise that if the community would like me in that seat, I will live that consensus to heart and assure you that I'll try my best.

To support this process of learning, ask me any questions on the discussion page.

Discussion

• Explanation of why the candidate should or should not retain rights/be given additional rights.

• Well, a lot of things I said here about Aqua – that one does not need sysop tools to do good things to the wiki, could be said here, too. Both Infinite and Aqua (I apologize if this will end up as an extension to my earlier comment/rant on Aqua's RFA) are extremely beneficial and popular users, but I feel that Infinite gets more personal (in a good way) when he is dealing with other users. I'm not sure if this is related to the "risks" Infinite mentions in his statement, but I find that merely his participation on a discussion lifts the mood or gives out an attitude of goodwill – I really find this hard to describe, but there is a certain transparency about Infinite's actions on the wiki. He often states his personal opinion on issues when it is appropriate, though I have yet to see (or remember...) where his opinion had gotten into way of rightness and good judgment. I don't trust any administrator (or almost any other human being) 100%, but neither do I have a doubt that they would intentionally cause harm to the wiki and its community or use the granted tools for their personal goals, so I hold their personal views on various matters rather important. It helps me judge their character and whether it is worthwhile to place more trust on their decisions, choices and actions. A perfect example of this is candidate's own words: "I was secretly hoping I wouldn't need to try to get in a seat myself. " which leads directly to my next point.
  I don't think anyone who doesn't really want to become an admin should be put in such a position. It is a role of tremendous responsibility because admins will be depended on a lot. Infinite states that, if he is lifted to that responsibility and authority, he will do his utmost to learn to perform in that role as well as possible, and while I earnestly hope that to happen in such case, I find this statement and what he said about his own feelings about his possible adminship highly contradictory. I can understand why he feels that way, but I really don't think anyone should be an administrator just because of community's wishes. If it was needs that we, the community, had, the situation might or might not be little different, but frankly, I find the current admin team to be sufficiently balanced and capable of doing their job – at the moment. This will obviously change after GW2 release, but that may still be months away, a time I don't think anyone can spend entirely on learning the ropes of sysophood (though, how could I know?) True experience on that field can only come from managing the community that will be sparked by game release or by having the experience being carried from previous adminship in another wiki. Sooner is better than later, but considering the lack of urgent need of more administrators, and the candidate's own, former or current, somewhat or genuine unwillingness to assume an admin role leaves me quite puzzled about the whole thing. Mediggo 16:20, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

• Looking back at history with different “leaders” like MLK, Ghandi, Mother teresa, FDR... they were great leaders but they were also very reluctant leaders where it took a lot of convincing from the community to have them take that role. On the other hand some of the most eager power hungry leaders in the past like Stalin, Hitler, Qhaddafi, etc have been some of the worst perpetrators of crimes against humanity. I firmly believe that reluctant leaders that are thrusted into a top leadership role by the poeple tend to become very good leaders, as opposed to leaders that want the power and status of being a “leader”. There are multiple reasons as to why. Reluctant leaders tend to be always worried about doing a good job, making people happy, and doing something positive for the community as a whole. Power, status, and the prestige of being in a leader role never comes to the forefront of the consciousness, and always places the people over themselves. Now I am not saying that Infinite is like MLK, but he shows a lot of similar qualities that will make him a very good sysop. From his realistic assessment that he won’t be a dream sysop overnight, to his understanding of how the community at GW2W works, he tends to worry, think, and obsess a lot about how to best say things and how things should work out for the good of the community. His worry about whether he’ll do a good job is a good sign, since that almost always mean that he will try as hard as he can to do a good job. We need new sysops that are different from the good old crew that have more than half a decade of experience since I expect that some of the current sysop team will be inactive or semi-active over the long run, and I want someone like Infinite to learn as much as he can from them before they become less active again. Using the sysop tools is easy. Using them for the benefit of the community (like banning and controlling trolls and disruptive users) on the other hand has a steep learning curve... something that even some of the current sysop team lack the initiative and insight to do that effectively. --Lania 17:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

• If we are going to promote any one user for the sake of "representing the GW2W community" and/or "truly knowing how this wiki works/feels", then I would want it to be Infinite. I do worry a bit about the complete lack of administrative experience...even something like "oh I used to be a conflict mediator in high school" is applicable job experience. It's hard to learn to lead people, how to coerce, how to control, how to persuade (and I use those terms in the most positive way), if you've never done it before. And I say that from experience. When I was promoted to admin on GuildWiki, and later to the sole Bureaucrat seat, I had no experience of any kind, and I was reluctant to take the job. I was popular with the people, sure, but what qualifications did I have other than that? Everything was new and difficult to me. Most of the time I was just following my intuition, which I know sounds horrible since it's like I was just gambling randomly with fate. However, even a gambler has to have direction - and I was lucky to have good mentors that taught me how to sysop; I think if not for that, I (and GuildWiki as a whole) would have just floundered and died. Fortunately, there is certainly not a shortage of good role models on this wiki to learn from, and I think Infinite has a great aptitude for learning as demonstrated by his growth as a user over time. So it all boils down to whether he really wants the position or not, and that would be my biggest qualm with the nomination. On the one hand, as Lania rightly points out and as I know personally, sometimes a leader needs some pushing and encouragement before they discover their natural talent. People who "think" they are suited for the job aren't necessarily prepared. On the other hand, for all his positive qualities, Infinite has a lot to learn if he wants to be a good admin rather than a mediocre admin...a memorable admin who accomplishes something, rather than just a janitor who occasionally deletes an article or something. Therefore, it begs the question of whether he is willing to expend the necessary time and effort. If Infinite is willing to commit to this position, then I place my support behind him. Otherwise, I think this nomination is just premature, and Infinite should apply/be nominated again at such a time when he feels more comfortable with the idea. Vili 点 22:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

• I think Infinite, together with Aqua, is our best bet for new sysop. He has been active here for a long time, has plenty of knowledge about how this community works, has the technical knowledge to be able to handle properly the sysop tools, and he is among the users who are "native" to GW2Wiki, as opposed to those who try to mold this place as a mirror to somewhere else. He lacks sysop experience, sure, but all sysops here had to begin at some point. I believe Infinite is trusted by this community, and capable enough to be a good sysop. Erasculio 22:38, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

• I'm a little bewildered by Infinite's hesitance. Rightly or wrongly, I've always felt that he was one who tended to act the sysop around the place, enforcing 'rules', attempting mediation and moderation and so on. I think he'd do okay with the privileges but talk to him first, I'd want to be really sure that he wants the job enough and that the expectations, real or imagined, won't ruin his enjoyment contributing here. -- aspectacle  23:40, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
• It's like a job interview, isn't it? You need 30 years of experience but they want you fresh off school so you don't cost anything. Hogwash. Experience comes from starting somewhere. And if it doesn't work out after all (for him or for us) we're all grownups and we'll talk about it. Other than that, no need to repeat what others have said before me. All for it. --Ee 05:52, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• What I said for Aqua's RFA mostly applies to Infinite as well. This wiki community appears to be yearning for more "native" admins and these are two of the most suitable candidates. There is little reason to oppose given a relative lack of controversial issues and that you'd hardly expect Infinite to suddenly go rogue with the sysop tools. Being in a leadership role is only optional. The definition and role of an admin on GW2W is broad, and with a small team, there's definitely a niche to fill for any type of admin, whether janitorial or otherwise. -- ab.er.rant 09:35, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• Anyone with positive votes from Ab.er.rant, Aspectacle, Erasculio and Vili is obviously the right man for the job. I know Infinite is absolutely going to hate that reasoning ^_^ --snograt 11:46, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• Infinite is a solid choice for sysop. Not because he's good with sysop tools or wikicode or anything, but because his knowledge of wikis and ability to read a community is almost unmatched. He's talked about the gww/gw2w crowds and their conflicts in the past, and having discussed the matter off-wiki, the user showed a fantastic ability to perceive the subtleties and nuances of wiki politics and positions of power. That perception will make him a strong contender for doing the hardest job as sysop - policing the contributors, not the content. Everything else will fall into place over time. -Auron 12:41, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

• Infinite is extremely well-versed in wiki markup and the aesthetic side of this wiki. This is where I've seen him most involved, but I would trust him with sysop tools. Even if he has no experience with them, everyone's gotta start somewhere, and Infinite is qualified via years' positive, constructive involvement with this wiki. His activity/contributions speak for themselves, and if he is willing to become more involved with honing regulations and dealing with detrimental users, then I believe him, and I believe he will have a positive effect given the new position.-- shew|make 12:43, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• I have to admit, I'm not as enthusiastic about this RfA as everyone else seems to be. Lania suggests that the best leaders are those that don't want to lead, an idea taken pretty much verbatim from Plato's Republic. The difference is that Plato's system would force these people to serve in public office or be exiled/executed, while a wiki is a purely voluntary project with no serious repercussions one way or the other. That's why the top bullet point of my criteria for adminship is "must want to do the job." Indeed, my policy as a bureaucrat has always been that if a user says "I don't want" or "I don't need" sysop tools, they don't get them. That being said, I think Infinite certainly is capable of using sysop tools effectively- I simply don't want him to have them unless he wants them himself. 14:53, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
• Ok then. First of all I know you somewhat in person and I'm aware of your qualities which could be effective for an admin. Some of these are a good presence by the current community, above average communication skills, knowledge about how the wiki works and most important: a relaxed approach of things and a will to go in discussion. I would say that are all things that could help you to be a good admin. I sure believe that you could handle the tasks that come with being an admin, even without the experience. I only wonder if you really want this. In your statement above you say that you're not entirely sure, and as I often say (and I hope you know that): if you have doubts don't do it (yet). You have the qualities, so if you can convince me that you really want it I'll support you. Also, you're nice and stuff and I want a Dutch admin. Go figure ;) -- Cyan 06:56, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
• Supportive. Like many/most/all of the other responses, I don't question Infinite's abilities or potential as demonstrated by his considerable presence here on the Wiki in all regards. In my time here, I have seen him as an inquisitive and constructive community member and contributor, and this has built up a great deal of trust. This trust is reinforced by an evident and maturing/mature awareness, a characteristic just as valuable as the assertiveness also needed as part of the general team. As such, I'm personally finding the issue of willingness/want somewhat extraneous in this particular situation: To me, this isn't a question of User Infinite vs. Sysop Infinite--I have simply found that Infinite behaves and fulfills my own expectations of someone who can be trusted with additional tools (and even return those tools if they are found to be unnecessary), and I'm comfortable supporting the provision of those tools. Redshift 15:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Candidate response

As it currently stands, a lot of users are generally in favour save one major detail; the questioning of whether or not I really want this position. I wish I could answer with a resounding yes to take away those concerns, but it's slightly more complicated than that.
Because I have no previous sysop experiences on a wiki, I can't be completely sure of my desires to be in a seat. So to (hopefully) lift some concerns I will give a few examples of previous experiences that may overlap with the actions a sysop can take:

• I have moderated forums before; thread moderating, global moderating, and super moderating (and even being an administrator, to deal with technical issues). This never took away any joy in being on forums. Quite the contrary, I enjoyed catching bots, vandals, and users who were clearly breaking the rules, be it via banning, handing out infractions, or a stern warning (in my typically social ways). Where my approach to warning was usually frowned upon, the communities always commended me for not becoming an overzealous rule-enforcer. I did the job, I just did it my way. It worked on forums and I expect it to work on wiki. I was mostly a moderator in a time zone that is less covered by the general time zones, so I could moderate when others were asleep. This would also be in effect here, though we have capable sysops near my time zone (and I'd still be learning to use and apply the actual tools a sysop has access to).
• I have helped reconcile users (and people in general) before, both on-wiki and off-wiki. Whilst this involves users' personal input and effort, it is occasionally necessary to help users across that hurdle. Unfortunately most users feel that the damage was already done and took their leave anyway. I will go the extra mile to take the bitter taste away as much as I possibly can. The wiki is a voluntary project; it should be fun from start to end. I feel the end for some users is extremely bitter, and I would rather attempt to end their experiences differently. Note that this won't be the case for clear trolls and drama-users (because I do have lines people shouldn't cross, both as user and potential sysop).
• I have developed an interest in coding on wiki. Back in my high school days, code would be just about the last thing I would choose to teach myself (or be taught). Being on the wiki sparked something in me; I had a visual feedback with the code here. This was an incentive to learn. As you probably know my code isn't perfect which is perfectly logical, because I prioritise the visual before the efficient. Other users have greater coding skills to make the code do what it does with less code to make it behave that way. I will be very likely to learn more about code if I can research code that only admins can see. This is just a personal curiosity and should not weigh in with users' opinions. The wiki expanded my interests.
• I have grown part of the wiki. And I mean this in a positive light; I want to open the recent changes whenever it's not already open. I want to see discussions unfold and predict the comment to come. I enjoy being a part of this community, both in the good and the bad times. I want to keep it clean of vandalism, spam, advertisements, etc. to improve the quality of our wiki. I guess I just want to make a difference, something I'm already managing perfectly without tools. But when I see over a 100 articles tagged for speedy deletion, with very clear and incontestable reasons (not all candidates for speedy deletion are such), I want it cleaned up as soon as possible. Maybe it can wait a little longer, but there's no reason to keep it around that much longer. It's ready to be deleted, still just sitting there, waiting for an admin to go through the list and carry out the deletion routine. Something I could've (had I already access to the tools) done at least 50 times by the time it's actually done.

So those are some experiences that may overlap with the requirements of being a sysop. I assume they are anyway. But I still need to answer that important question; do I want this seat?
I don't know.
But I don't know a lot of things;

• I don't know what my most motivating job would be, something I can do for years on end without growing tired. I will know once I end up doing it.
• I don't know what my ideal masters degree is, something I can only find out by enrolling a university that meets my initial interests and expectations. I will know once I end up growing towards it.
• I don't know what my perfect position on this wiki is, something I can experience only by flowing with the community and matching it with my personal findings. I will know once I have been there.

And that basically summarises my "wanting" this sysop seat;

I don't know. I will know once I end up doing it. I will know once I end up growing towards it. I will know once I have been there. But until then, other than accepting this nomination and feeling it is the right time; I won't know until it happens.

This concludes my candidate statement and hopefully any last concerns. - Infinite - talk 12:57, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

If you had said that you wanted to be an administrator, you'd have gotten rid of that del-tagged mess a hundred times over already. I think it's now more clear what you want to do and what you need to do it. Mediggo 13:34, 31 May 2012 (UTC)