Talk:Steel Chest

Location: Tyria vs PvE

I think Mithran is correct here. The Mists is the region given for Fractals of the Mists, and Tyria (world) is just kind of floating around in The Mists. So if we take PvE as a location to mean the entire in-game universe, of which Tyria is just one part, it is the more appropriate term. 14:31, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd prefer not listing a location for this at all, because it doesn't make sense when it's so broad. Instead, we should list the game types in which it can appear, which would be PvE and Dungeon. The counterpart Bag of Loot would similarly not list a location, but list the game type WvW. —Dr Ishmael 14:35, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Tyria does not include the Fractals, but it includes at least one non-PvE map (The Dragon Ball arena activity map is under Lion's Arch, in the sewers). The leaves out Tyria or "World of Tyria" for this. PvE used as location is an metonym of "all locations under PvE rules", and is the only term left that I see can be applied here. When you say "PvE" as a location, players will really understand you mean "all PvE locations". The object infobox does not have a "mode" parameter, but I don't even think it's necessary, as all locations in both Guild Wars are always tied to a mode. There's no one location that may appear with two modes, if that seemed to happen, they'll be actually two locations with the same name. They will still be internally different locations and they'll be listed in two separated pages like "Location" and "Location (PvP)". Location is so intrinsically linked to mode that players will refer to broader location ranges with the mode itself. Because of how the game engine sets areas and how players perceive areas; PvE, PvP and WvW can be used to answer both "where are you?" and a "what are you doing?". As for the Bag of Loot, it appears whenever loot can't be in a corpse, and that includes some PvE events, like when you defeated rioting NPCs in the Southsun Cove, or when chasing the Skritt Bruglar, using WvW and PvE for locations includes where they may appear, and expludes PvP where they may not. MithTalk 15:00, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

But using the label of "location" loses its meaning when we get to such a high level. PvE is not a location, it is a game type (term used in the API) that various locations are flagged as having that attribute. Munging these two mechanics doesn't make sense to me. —Dr Ishmael 15:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Of course it's not a location, but the term it's used as a shorthand for all locations with PvE rules set. Human language works like that. It's lazy. They won't say "I'm in a PvE location" or "I'm in a WvW map" or "I'm in a PvP arena". They'll just say "I'm in PvE/WvW". There's a distinction between the PvE mode and the locations. But there's no better term that "PvE" to refer to all PvE locations. Because how language works, they are often used indistinctly by players as if they were the same thing. If the wiki wants to convey information to players in a way they all can easily understand it, it must use the same language as players and devs are using to name things, and adapt to the use of terms such ways. I'm not saying to force "PvE game mode" as a location when it's not. I'm saying to use it because of its other implied meaning, which is "All locations which have their game mode ruleset set to PvE/PvP/WvW", because it's the only term that will convey the information of where it may appear without conveying false lore. MithTalk 15:47, 20 June 2013 (UTC)