Talk:Signet of Shadows

Maybe we should add a note saying passive swiftness only grants 10% more movement speed? (The active one, being 33%) Lhimez 16:03, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

BWE3

The active description was changed to remove the mention of immobilize, but it was not removed from the effect list. Tested and it does not apply immobilized, i.e. the description is correct. —Dr Ishmael 19:52, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Out of Combat?

Is this an out-of-combat benefit only? --Omasu 00:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

It seems to be Midget chinese 11:53, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

I have also observed that the speed boost ends in combat. Not sure if it is intended, but it happens.relt 03:30, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Not true, unless this was a recent (unlisted) change. It's just that going into combat slows all player characters down considerably, whereas this does not happen to monsters. Try running alongside another player without a speed boost while you are both in combat; the thief moves faster. Vili 点 06:50, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

It's really easy to tell. It does work out of combat, like all other signets which enhance movement speed (that's pretty much the point). Mediggo 08:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

+25% more movement speed, permanently signet ? Not fair

Movement's speed are an important element in fight. Movement's speed in fight aren't great, and any improvement (as swiftness) don't look like it make much difference. But it's still actually is.

In a fight, the one who run faster is the one that can escape the fight when he want (unless he try to flee to late or the ennemi teleport. The first can only be blame to the player's decision, and the last being quite rare, teleporting skill being not very numerous).

The one who run faster, in the opposite way, is the one that can purchased a fleeing player which has, in that case, no more choice than fight to death. (unless he can magically disappear long time enough to fool the pursuer. Aka : stealth access profession ==>thief/mesmer)

Some class being able to run permanently faster than any other, it may look like just an advantage, but it's a decisif one.

What I don't understand, in a fair game, is that some class have like a complete boulevard for leaving easily a fight or chasing when other are doomed to move like a middle-aged jogger. HOPEFULLY, any class have access to swiftness (by a way or another from skills).

But, only 4 on 6 class have access to permanent improving movement's speed skills, in form of signet. (Thief/Ranger/Elementalist/Necromancer ==> http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_speed)

Not only it's already not very fair for gardian/warrior, in the case of movement's speed ability, but it's not even fair between the 4 movement speed signet class themselve.

See : Ranger's/Elementalist's/Necromancer's signets==> passive effect : 10% more movement's speed Thief's signet ==> passive effect : 25% more movement's speed.

What I wonder is why ?... Why giving the thief a skill that make them basicly run faster, anytime, than any other players (not considering other thieves of course). Cause that mean that a smart-enough thief can just don't really bother engaging a 1vs1 against anything different than another thief (and especially a gardian/warrior).

The duel is getting bad ? Okay just leave, not only you can stealth for many second, and teleport with the 5th shortbow's skill, but you can also simply run 25% faster any second anyway.

This is so unfair and frustrating for any people not being Thief to fight thief (in WvW for example, in random encounter). Because, if the Thief is wise enough to see when it's getting bad for him, here are the 2 issue :

1/ The fight is in his advantage, you will loose then and die, or die trying to flee anyway (as he can catch up quickly) 2/ The fight is in his disadvantge, he will run away with a variable sequence of run(faster than you)/Stealth/teleport/stealth again/re-teleport and run (he's already far from your longest ranged attack anyway)

I'm sure ANYONE doing sPvP/WvW already face that case of "hey, don't run away you damn thief !" And just can't do nothing, really nothing but being frustrated seeing him go away, his health bar filling up peacefully... The frustration is at its peak, when, turning your heel to this cancelled fight you were to win, suddenly, the same thief reappear magically, stab you, and with advantage of surprise attack, win this time. And of course, if you have even try to flee, as he does himself, your elephant-like moving character has already being powned anyway.

My point is, due to already being able to teleport and stealth in an excessive way if they want, giving the best movement's speed improvement signet to thief (25% more against 10% more for 3 other class, and not-even similar signet for the 2 last), this class is like "ololol, let's just give thief a +25%more run speed to thief to allow them chasing everything and run away even more easily! So that, if they already can not kill everything they want due to massive cannon glass skill, they just have to run if it doesn't work! trololol"

Why Signet of shadows give a +25% and not +10% like the 3 others class' signet ?.... I don't see any legit reason to that unless it is, like I unfortunately doubt, because..well...thief just have to be stronger...(so much for equity between class).

In GW1, there was an unfair inequity in running abilities between class where Ranger (and more or less Warrior) could spend entirely their time running in +25%/+33% speed if they want and with bonus like "insensitive to damage/projectiles/attack"... I thought GW2 would get rid of this, at least for PvP play... Unfortunately, the "OMG thief have to be killingz machines"'s spirit had its effect in this skill...

It's not whinning against Thief in overall (I don't consider myself enough expert in Thief to make an overall critic of if they're or not a little OP compared to other class abilities), but no class should have the advantage of running faster than any other class..

If asura/norn/charr/human/sylvari run at the same speed (despite what the most simple logic would have imply considering the great height/leg-size/muscular mass difference between ridiculous shape asura and flesh mountain charr/norn) it's for a good reason. So why being a thief wouldn't respect this law of equity in speed capacity ? Cause +25% permanent speed movement's, it's a LOT, even more when you have already the advantage of being invisible on click.

Passive movement increase QQ debunked

Why go through all that trouble to QQ about a skill you know little about? The 25% increase evaporates immediately when you enter combat, so no, it can't be used to evade a battle. Swiftness is better used to that end. Unlike the caster classes with defensive spells and the warrior/guardian classes with heavy armor, thieves rely on mobility and disengage tactics for survival. Signet of Shadows is NOT why thieves are able to get out of combat situations. That's actually called player skill, which is why the thief requires precision and practice to play correctly and to its full potential. (Derenault 13:01, 20 December 2012 (UTC))

Erm, no, it doesn't. Signet of Shadows, Swiftness, and any other speed boost (and speed debuffs as well) still work in combat the same as normal. It's just that movement speed in combat is already significantly reduced, at least for running in a straight line, which is fastest if you're trying to avoid battles obviously. It's a 30% slowdown on base forward speed. Strafing and backpedaling are the same in and out of combat, though. Speeds in units per second, the same measurement that is used for range on attacks etc. So outside of combat it takes about four seconds to run the same distance you can normally shoot a Fireball, while in combat it would take about 5.7 seconds.

Condition	Increase/decrease	Out of combat	In combat	% change by combat
No effects	n/a	300	210	-30%
Signet of Shadows etc	+25%	375	262.5	-30%
Swiftness	+33%	399	279.3	-30%
Crippled	-50%	n/a	105	-30%

I might be wrong on Cripple, since that and Chilled honestly seem to be closer to 80-90% effective speed reduction (they put you in combat automatically), but the rest I'm confident about. There are some other uncommon speed debuffs, like Encumbered, that apply outside of combat.

Also, Stealth is lovely for breaking aggro. Combine that with fixed-distance movement skills like Heartseeker and Infiltrator's Arrow, and yeah, Thieves are still some of the best, if not the best, at evading unwanted combat and getting out of encounters that they do end up in. Vili 点 22:00, 23 December 2012 (UTC)