User talk:SiderFace

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moved from talk:Engineer

I think alot of people look at this so closely that they end up not seeing anyhting in reality. lol

I know life is boring sometimes, but that doesn't mean your new official life purpose is to seek problems that might make you feel like you exist in the world again.

What I'm saying is. Nothing all that new or radical (in terms of gaemplay) is being introduced with this possible engineer class. Its the RITUALIST!

1. He has STATIONERY objects that shoots enemies. there are choices of many different of these stationery sentry like objects that each apply different dmg/effects. Sound like spirit summoning to anyone? 2. He has Stationery objects that heal/resurrect/explode/etc. again... spirits. 3. He has objects that he can carry in his hand that have effects while he carries them, and have specific active effects when he drops them (as shown by the TNT barrel, blinding pod, etc.) 4. He has the potential to be a formidable soloist, while also having options to build as a support, nuker, healer, etc. wide range of builds depending on which spirits (OOPS! I mean, machines) he equips. 5. One of the skill presentations is lengthy in its display of the classes ability to lay down a constant stream of damage and effects while gradually retreating and staying out of harms way. RITUALIST to a "T".

Basically folks, there is gameplay, and there is setting/lore. The gameplay looks to have changed alot in GW2 as compared to GW1, however, the overall concept of the engineer as a calss isnt a giant step from what the ritualist currently does in GW1. The lore however is MASSIVELY different. I attribute this to the many new people that they have recruited over the years to Arenanet; most notably Jeff Grubb. As you can see from the very apparent chagnes he has made in lore and story in EotN; it is obvious that he has a very distinct effect, and a GOOD one at that. Lets all admit that the story and lore of Prophecies is EASILY the weakest point of the Guild Wars game (if any). As the campaigns were released, they got better with the story, and cohesively adding game mechanics that worked hand in hand with the story/lore. But when EotN came out, it is safe to say that the story, character development, and lore made a massive jump in improvement. **SPOILER ALERTS** for instance... "Oh NO! Rurik Died!!" WHATEVER! whats the next missions (screw him). on the opposite side of the spectrum: "Oh NO! Vekk's father died!!" Thats stupid. I liked how his hard shell, general care for the mission and succeeding. I wanted him to join the team! I thought I was gonna get him as a hero!  :( Maybe he'll come back to life. Man, he was mean, but he was a cool guy  :( I wish he hadn't of died!

See, the key difference, is i cared about Vekk's father, both from a character point of view, and for gameplay reasons (hero potential). These improvements have gotten even better i suspect. The idea of gunpowder (engineer) being developed make for MUCH better story and lore than spirits (ritualist). the early days of gunpowder (irl history) is one of the most interesting things you could ever study. It involves many things that can add to a story or character setting: Religious points of view like how the Shogun fought major wars still refusing to wield guns, social points of view like how the conservatives of the world will never trust in a new "counfounded gadget" and can only really trust the elegance of a sword/bow/etc, political effects like does a particular civilization invest manpower and resources into the development/mass production/advancement of the new technology (look into WW2 history if you want your mind blown), and gameplay aspects like how us an explosion similar/different from that of fire magic (this adds MANY avenues of gameplay variation/eccentricities. spirits on the other hand are VERY boring in story: "hey, its a spirit... that gets its power... um... from the spirit world... and the ritualist... ummmm... has the power to summon these spirits... its like... the ritualist POWERS!!" lol no matter how you slice it, any recent creative writing graduate can spit something out from the realm of generic fantasy of this sort. Its so very basic, and when you make something is 100% fictional, you can't lose; you can't win... or lose. Fiction is fiction.. it is whatever the writer says it is. (anyone who wants me to write them a fantasy/fiction short story that is better than the proheices storyline, i will write it in approx 3 hours. all you do is make the fiction relate to things we see and deal with in our real lives, something that is an analogy to our real lives) this is why spirits is nothing more than a random idea of fiction. i don't DISlike spirits as an idea... its just.. bleh. Lore/setting is best when we can relate it to our world somehow; whereas spirits are no more interesting in story as if the ritualist were actually a gardener who lifted flowers from the ground that shot you; would be just as intersting, and might even look nicer with the GW art style. lol

In Summary, from a gamplay point of view, I am willing to play a Barbie playhouse game where you shoot flowers out of a makeup stick gun if the game is fun and competetive. Many aspects effect gameplay, but in PvP competative atmosphere, the lore and the SKIN that is put on an object/weapon/armor does NOT effect it. On the other hand, the lore and game EXPERIENCE is almost COMPLETELY effected and designed from its skin/setting/lore/design. In this aspect, i think we have made a major improvement.

All of that said... I alos think Engineer class has the potential to be fake... We might get a blog post on GW2 sit saying "gotcha!". But that doesn't change the fact that i, personally, would LOVE it as a superior lore/setting variable to that of spirit summoning.

Good points. I agree with you that the Engineer borrows many concepts from the Ritualist. I also agree that tying the Engineer's skills to a race's technological advancements makes for a more interesting character development than having skills that simply conjure spirits out of thin air/spirit world. In the former case, there's a back story, a history, and progressive technological advancement to explain why the Engineer can do the things it does. In the latter case, the Ritualist just makes spirits pop up with no explanation beyond, "Because he can, that's why!" As you stated, that's the key; relate it to things we see and deal with in our real lives. We can relate to the Engineer because it's within the realm of possibility in our own world. A Ritualist, on the other hand, is a complete fiction that we have no relation to whatsoever. But making plants pop up out of the ground...hmmm. Especially if they were giant, man-eating plants that spit acid and had sharp, thorny teeth. Now that would be cool! Maybe it could be a Sylvari racial trait. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 06:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe there is one, quite relevant point that has not yet been addressed yet. I apologize in advance if it has, although I have read most of what's been stated above.

While many took stance on the Engineer profession's impact on the society of the races in general, I believe we lost track that ArenaNet is building a game for the individual. It is your story. So, regardless of what motivations any race would have, and their stance on any profession, in the end it is up to each individual (i.e. we, the players creating our character) to determine what path we take to furthering the goals of our race (or the goals of ourselves!).

As ArenaNet stated countless times on different places, they want to give the player choices, not take them away.