User talk:Lania Elderfire

• Stabs red talk link* Heya Lania, welcome to the Guildwars 2 wiki ^_^ --Neil • 20:21, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

aww damn... I was kinda liking that red-link ^_^ j/k :--Lania 23:05, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Vindictus

You play/ed on NA or EU service? I used to play VindictusEU with some guys pre/post-release, last year, but we hit current level cap of 44 and it got boring pretty soon since they didn't raise it quickly enough. So how's the game these days? Mediggo 23:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

I play on the NA-West server. They just released the Episode 9.5 24-man dragon raid update so there is quite a bit of content to play right now. They also have the 24 man spider and polar bear raids but I haven't tried those yet. The current level cap is 70 now, but it's been 70 for a while now. I think EU's Vindictus is a bit different than NA too, something about premiere version vs extreme version. Right now my Evie and Fiona are level 70, Lann at level 67, and Karok at level 40 :P. I just got my Raider's staff to +10 so I was excited about that :P. --Lania 02:38, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

I see. I think NA is quite a bit ahead of EU, and yeah, EU is extreme version only. Not really sure how premiere is different but from what I've read extreme is faster and I kinda like it that way (it took pretty long to release Karok in EU). We were kinda fascinated with how they used Source engine and physics in instanced MMO. Well, the lag is kinda terrible sometimes, when the host can't get good enough connection to all party members... I tried the game just a little about a month ago, but I didn't bother to start playing again alone. We used to have a small guild, even, but people just went on because of level cap at the time. Mediggo 08:02, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Well from what I heard from korea which has both versions, the extreme version is easier to play of the two. You can see the difference in how someone solos a Titan in Xe here [1] vs in the premiere version here [2]. Main difference is that in the Xe version you can basically spin to win, while in the premiere version you have to actually dodge the hits and you can't spin to win. Though prolly an unfair comparison as Raidhunter is probably the most skilled spear lann in korea. But yeah, these differences make the spear lann the most difficult to play in the premiere version as a spear lann has no invulnerability frames in his dodge skills. There seems to be a pretty big list of differences between the two versions.

You guys don't seem too far behind, looks like Eu is up to EP 8 on the update tomorrow, and your at level 70 cap for at least several months now. --Lania 15:07, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Once again..

I've been beaten by some minutes ;) -- Cyan 20:33, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Which I shouldn't even have the right to since I've been inactive forever \o/. Just edit the timestamps so it looks like you were first >:)... j/k lol. --Lania 20:50, 04 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't even dare to think about something like that. It would harm my reputation, although it couldn't be really outstanding anyway. -- Cyan 20:54, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

BWE

← moved to User_talk:Lania_Elderfire/BWE1

W8

It's not just about change - from what (admittedly little) I have seen, W8 seems to be stripping a good portion of traditional Windows OS usability, replacing conventional computer mouse and keyboard usability with unconventional touch UI. Also, about every other Windows OS has been substandard or genuinely crappy (98, ME, Vista) while every other has been very usable with a couple of SP's (95, 2k, XP, W7). Ultimately, it seems that they're just going to do the same they did with Vista - getting a new OS with new, interesting feature out ASAP (Vista: x64, W8: Touch UI). p: But sure, if it's just W7 with touch UI, then it's prob'ly OK - but I wouldn't buyt a new OS for that function. Mediggo 07:01, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

At the moment, I am unconvinced that the metro UI will bring that much increased usability to the desktop environment, it seems to be completely optimized for the massive tablet market. I haven't tried the consumer preview, but i might try the release preview which is coming next month maybe. There are a few features that I am excited about like a customizable task bar that spans multiple monitors, native USB 3 support, being able to mount ISO's with a few clicks etc. I think it'll still be an improvement over windows 7 once it is released (which I doubt they will hit the october 2012 release date), but I am also afraid that Microsoft won't release the next iteration of DirectX for windows 7, and it'll be W8 only. But once Win8 is released for the tablet market, I might be an early adopter for a windows tablet. I don't like Apple's tablets, and I'm not convinced that the android OS is powerful enough for productivity purposes. The new Asus TF300 with Android ICS 4.0 looks like a compelling tablet but after getting some hands-on time with it, I'm still not convinced even though it's a vast improvement over 2.0, honeycomb, or gingerbread. The Ipad 3 is very fast, but it lacks freedom. Android has a lot of freedom but it was originally an OS built for smartphones, not tablets, and even ICS has some issues with. Maybe the google tablet that in development will be good? That one is supposed to feature Android 5.0 Jellybean which is supposed to improve tablet experience... Well, who knows :P --Lania 14:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm strictly considering Windows as a PC OS - I don't want Microsoft run every device I own, and I'm not really into tablets either, so I just use an Android phone which is enough for me at the present. Being able to mount images would probably be cool, but since it's MS we're stuck with, I doubt it will have neither much freedom, features, support nor security. In worst case, it may end up as another software to restrict usability, by not allowing use of uncertified images, for example. Did you know there's no DVD playback in W8 by default? It's a purchasable add-on for WMP instead, and that kind of monetization is jsut sick IMHO. Mediggo 16:17, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, but who uses Windows Media Player? That's about as bad as if MS Paint no longer opened JPEG. :p Vili 点 17:07, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

No, the problem is not with WMP. The problem is that Microsoft is removing a very standard feature from their OS and will charge for it separately, selling it in your home/family PC bundles, individually to companies who depend on MS products, anyone who wants to create a Windows Media Center PC (there are businesses which sell them and companies and households which use them), and so forth. The option for more conscious users is to download additional 3rd party software, which may or may not include your favorite music and/or movie players, essentially limiting your options on what programs you want to use. TBH, I'm not entirely sure what all features of DVD playback they are removing, but it's still terrible that they are doing something like that just to milk more money from their customers. Mediggo 18:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I think there were several factors that were involved in the decision to exclude native DVD playback support for W8. Playback of physical media on computers and HTPC's is getting less and less popular over the past 2-3 years. Sales of DVD's and Bluray discs are stagnant or shrinking, while digital media sales are skyrocketing. Ofc tablets can't play DVD's or Bluuray and a part of the skyrocketing digital medial market is due to the smart phones and the tablets (which the new ones can interface with a modern TV so that it can act as a HTPC). So instead of providing free support for something that many tech analysts are saying are on their way out, why not make it an option that users of W8 might want to buy. Also the physical media playback support in past iterations of windows has been kinda lackluster and clunky. Yes it was free but a lot of customers ended up using/buying a 3rd party program in place of WMP for their media playback purposes.

I personally don't foresee any time in the future where I will play DVD's or Bluray on my computer even though I do own quite a few of them (old ones). The DVD/Bluray player on my HTPC has never been used other than for the purpose of installing the OS since I built it almost a year ago, and everything we buy/rent has been digital media rather than physical media. I also do not use WMP at all, and Win7's implementation of a digital medial player falls short of many free alternatives. --Lania 18:30, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary discussion

You said that "I had about a dozen names initially and I narrowed them down to the final two, who in my view were the least controversial out of that list Aqua and Infinite" And I think that's quite a lot of users to even take into consideration (of course we have many, many fantastic users with extensive tehcnical knowledge but I'm not sure many of them would make for adequate admins in the end)! I actually wonder whom all you considered to be capable of filling such a role or what kind of qualities you considered fitting for an admin. 0h, and I agree with you on that Infi and Aqua are the best candidates to "represent GW2W" and that both would and hopefully will eventually make for fine admins. I think ab.er.rant made a very good point about possibility of having more content-focused administrators, something I hadn't considered until now. Mediggo 07:45, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

My initial criteria was the ability for the user to interact with other users in a constructive manner and basically play well together because that is probably one of the most important qualities for a sysop. I'd rather not say who matched the initial list but there was quite a few names. Of course additional, more sysop specific criteria was needed so, then i added other things such as interest in wiki politics, ability to mediate conflicts, ability to read other users well, have a strong grasp of the GW2W wiki community, and tends to de-escalate rather than escalate tense situations. That kinda narrowed the list down to Aqua and Infinite. I do feel that Infinite is the stronger candidate of the two as he is better at conflict mediation than aqua is. One thing that is also missing from the sysop crew is also something Auron kinda said; the ability to read the GW2W community at an intimate level. That level of GW2W community feel and knowledge is something that takes years of close interaction with a community... something that even Felix, and Jon might have a hard time matching. --Lania 14:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

People are pretty easy to define, in the end, and at least for me most of it happens inconsciously. There always existed two kinds of people for me on the wiki; those who can be relied on and those who can't. The most important quality of any admin is the trust they recieve from their peers, and you can see how that is taking effect in Dr ishmael's RFA. IMO, all current RFA candidates are reliable enough for me to trust they would not abuse admin tools, and while I have my concerns of all three of them, I hope they all will eventually make for admins. I knew that both Infi and Aqua would receive enourmous support, so I decided to go against the tide and instead provide a counterpoint and analyzing possible results and situations each candidate might get into if they successfully complete their RFA. I wanted to go a lot easier for Ishmael since I didn't believe he would as much support, but we'll see how that will go. I'm eagerly waiting to read on what other sysops will think of the candidates and the whole RFA business as a whole – IMO it was a little too early to start on them, and while it can't be helped anymore, I definitely know who to blame for starting the boom. ;) Mediggo 07:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what others think of me but I tend to think I'm one of those people who can't be relied on or be trusted because of my tendency to disappear from the wiki for months-years at a time, my habit of spewing rambling WoT on to the talk pages, and my intentional/unintentional trolling/fueling the fires of drama.

So yes, I like to stir the pot. I also think the wiki likes to lay dormant and go into a lets watch and see mode too much rather than take a risk and force certain issues. I do think that it is a bit early for the nominations but doing it now instead of a month later helps potential sysops to see what the community wants of popular people who were never sysops before. This also applies to people who were not nominated but may be looking at a sysop position some time in the future. BWE2 is next week, and the release date? is looming closer and the number of new accounts created on the wiki per week is gaining pace. --Lania 18:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Unnecessary discussion (2)

Heya, are you doing BWE3 or have the first two worn you out? --Riddle 16:06, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I might make a silvari and an asura and laugh at how funny they look, and then quit for BWE3 ^_^. --Lania 05:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Hahah really? :P – Valento ^msg 12:41, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

D: Okay. I'll probably pester someone on the IRC this afternoon to play with them. --Riddle 14:58, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Well I was in eternal grove so my character is deleted, and I don't feel like replaying the same content again just to have it deleted again. Sylvari and Asura just don't interest me, and their lack of any progress on balancing engineers and mesmers makes me sad. They did at least improve the character animations quite a bit, no longer looks floaty. Still over-smoothed but oh well. So... only after 4 days of GW2 playing through BWE1&2, yeah i'm kinda already burnt out. --Lania 18:37, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

your rant

is mostly spot on, except water serves a great purpose - you'll notice a vast difference between a dungeon with a (good) ele and one without. With a proper spec (lots of points in water and arcane trees), you can swap attunements every 9 seconds, and *on attune* you provide aoe regen and condition removal, in addition to passive regen ticks to anyone around you while attuned to water, and *then* you start using healing rain and geyser (both of which are pretty damned amazing for mitigating party wide damage). Obviously it isn't enough to keep someone topped when they're standing in ten kinds of fire, but it keeps them topped almost all other times. Instakill mechanics are one of the big exceptions, and I'll comment more on that when I get around to writing my rant (tldr FUCK instakill mechanics, anet is retarded for putting them in so many places). While in water, pop glyph of elemental or lesser elemental (preferably not both at once, stagger them) for additional heals. Once all the water stuff is on CD, swap to earth to provide aoe protection - with eruption to give 6 stacks of aoe bleeding, a cripple line, and a small aoe root/bleed (also, the autoattack in earth applies weakness and is a blast finisher). Swapping between those two provides the majority of ele utility to a party, but swapping to air gives aoe swiftness and opens you up for static field or aoe blind (the only skills worth using as air staff). Fire staff (particularly with the "larger staff aoe" trait) is very solid support for almost any pull - lava font, aoe burn, and met shower are almost always worth casting on a big pull if your other shit is on CD.
All in all I agree, eles got shafted pretty hard (and none of the DPS builds can come close to competing with thief), but I think the class is "designed" to attunement swap constantly in combat, and that folds into the support playstyle very well. Since GW has no dedicated healing, it's a lot more like a bitch rit in GW1 or a "healer" in a moba game - playing it requires a lot of situational awareness and good decision making on when to use your heals and offensive utility. It's honestly fairly engaging, even in PvE dungeons - you can pick up a ridiculously cheap healing set at 80 (less than 1 silver per piece cheap) and get some good vit/condi damage/healing stats to start off the high level content with. Oh. Wait. There isn't any. -Auron 15:56, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

I totally agree that water is actually pretty nice in a organised party. I saw that ele support build and it looks pretty good for dungeons. But being specced for water/arcane isn't terribly useful in the rest of PvE (where it's 1v1 or 1v5, or mob vs mob where doing damage = getting loot) and the cost of resetting trait points isn't trivial either. Why they opted to make us pay to change our build, i don't get. I also never liked playing support roles in any MMO, it just feels like i'm taking the back seat and play the leader role (which I don't like doing) :P. I just wish that water healing is decent instead of why bother with no/little points in water, and become great when maxed. Right now with little to no points in water, and no healing gear, the healing amount is kinda lame and a waste of time in most DE's.

The constant attunement swapping is the reason I do like playing the elementalist over the other classes, it's a lot more dynamic than guardian or warrior, especially when soloing events or mobs. I just wish that elementalists can be competitive in DPS in zerg fests (80% of DE's) without having to play it like a kimikaze suicide PBAoE dive bomber. I do have earth maxed, so I really don't die often so it's not really a suicide but I do get downed fairly often, just not defeated.

Anyway, I'm taking a break from GW2 until they can get more things smoothed out especially since my significant other who has 50/50 in the HOM has opted out from buying GW2 since my SO thinks it looks stupid. Of course my complaining about the game doesn't help to change the mind either. So it'll be back to dragon nest and vindictus for us. --Lania 17:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

>engineer, necro, and mesmer are lame in pvp

Okay, you are comparing them to the two strongest classes in the game bar none (could make some arguments on Ranger at least), although I don't know how strong of an adjective lame is in your vocabulary. But they aren't horrible by any means.

>ele sucks at everything ever

Here's the core issue of your rant that not even an Anet apologist can argue against, because the facts just tell a depressing story. It's largely the same problem that Thief has for PvE - our most effective builds end up being "suicide" against most champs, personal story situations, underwater combat, etc etc etc. So you and I have something in common, we picked really poor classes to start the game with. Sure, the game is beatable, it just takes way way more effort than other classes for the exact same amount of reward. Actually, it's even less reward because we spent more time getting it and also paid bonus armor repair costs. (I'm so glad this game isn't Badlo 3 so at least I still end up profiting from my adventures, but...blah.) Yes, it's true that water/earth/arcana makes for a good support role in a team. But it doesn't help much for solo content, which a good chunk of the game ends up being for one reason or another...and it's also depressing because one of the premises of GW2 as a whole was that every class could play "any way they wanted" and win, at least for the general PvE. So much for that, unless Anet has no conception of measuring actions per minute in their balance tests.

I would tell you to reroll as something else and try again, because playing the exact same content with Ranger has been like 1000x more fun for me...but at the moment there are plenty of other reasons to take a break that have nothing to do with class balance. For example, the glaring fact that ~every single zone in the game has at least one broken skill challenge and/or dynamic event, making map completion a gamble. I can accept dynamic events not working, since those aren't necessary for map completion and the broken ones tend to be the boring ones too. But I'm a completionist, so sitting at 99% map completion for days and days until they decide to reset the servers for something or other is majorly frustrating. Exploring is really the only part of the game that is still rewarding, other than WvW or crafting/playing the Trading Post...they nerfed dungeon rewards pretty hard and also made them harder, they accidentally broke DE rewards so they disappear randomly for some people, the anti-farming code also sporadically kicks in and prevents all drops ever, and PvP earns you nothing of value AT ALL, which gives me no reason to want to play it. Crafting and market games can get me rich but I find them pretty boring. At least in WoW there were a number of non-max recipes that were valued because they made things you couldn't get any other way (rare minipets, mounts, etc), but in GW2 there isn't anything like that as far as I know. I know they're working on fixing some of these issues but for now the game is very limited in what you can do and actually achieve something meaningful for the playtime.

As to the personal story, I think it's not so much that the entire thing is bad, but rather that the quality is wildly inconsistent. Which is really the same as can be said about DEs and renown hearts too. There are some parts which are super fun to play, and have a story that keeps me hanging on to every word. Other parts are a total snoozefest because I feel like nothing that I'm doing actually matters, whether it's in terms of the fight against Zhaitan or just the actual outcome of a mission (slay more Risen, woo). The story definitely gets less and less coherent the further in you get - there's a real sense that Anet was running out of time or something, and I'm not just speaking of how personal story bugs tend to be concentrated in the later missions. As many people on the forums have pointed out, Claw Island and the introduction of Trahearne Twiggy is where everything really starts going downhill. Past this point, none of the "choices" that your character makes actually have any meaning anymore. The story becomes very one-size-fits-all, with your race, background, and even your Order not meaning anything anymore. For that matter, your character stops mattering too. Twiggy gets credit for everything you do and is widely hailed as some sort of mighty hero. Meanwhile, your character pretty much never gets praised anymore, and it's like you don't even exist except as an extention of Twiggy. I don't even personally dislike Twiggy - I think he's amusing - but the contrast is really jarring. But honestly, that feeling of discontinuity is present throughout the entire game, not just the personal story. It feels like every chapter of the personal story, every zone, every dungeon, literally everything, was designed by a separate team that never talked to anyone else. I know that this is probably true overall, and is necessary for practical reasons. But it feels to me like no one ever decided to take a good look at the game as a whole, and say, "you know, there's no good transition from X to Y". That's just basic design philosophy, whether in writing, art, or anything else. When there's no logical connection between the parts, the sum is not greater than the parts because there is no sum. And the parts are pretty bad right now. Vili 点 00:39, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The Order system is really poorly done. The main character should have been in Trahearne's spot, and should have opted out of joining any particular order - especially considering some of the lines the character gives, it almost seems like that was the original intention. In the retake claw island cinematic, <character> berates the three orders for acting like kids and says that they all have to work together to achieve stuff, except by that point the character is already a proven member of one of the orders so essentially you're telling your boss to fuck off and that he's acting like a kid. Every time I did that to my boss, it had dire consequences. I'm not sure why nobody cares when you do it in GW2.

One of the biggest problems with Elementalist play is honestly lack of armor. In traditional games, cloth wearers started out weak, but ended up with long-duration defensive skills to counter the lack of armor - in traditional D&D you had ones to increase saving rolls, increase (or "decrease" for the earlier systems) your effective armor rating, provide resistance to certain conditions or elements, and that carried over even to KOTOR with jedi speed/armor/defense/etc giving bonuses to make up for the fact that jedi robes were nothing more than cloth. In WoW, mages can 1. kill things before they touch you, particularly while leveling or 2. cc the *fuck* out of something, so even if you accidentally pull too much, you can turn one into a sheep, freeze one in place (or apply a nasty movement speed debuff to allow you to kite it) and focus on burning down one target at a time - so the lack of armor was made up for by having very viable survivability options available. In GW2, eles do not have SHIT. Arcane shield blocks a maximum of 3 attacks in 5 seconds on a 75 second recharge? What a fucking joke! Mist form turns you "invulnerable" (except to dot ticks and floor-targeted aoe, because anet is hilariously incompetent and can't even make invincibility mechanics work right) for 3 seconds at the cost of being unable to attack and has a 75 second recharge. Armor of earth is one of the best defensive options, giving 8.5 seconds of -33% damage taken - but again, the recharge kills it (90 seconds!). GW2 eles do not have polymorph. They don't have frostbolt. Chill is an insanely hard to apply mechanic, and eles have a bitch of a time applying it - afaik the only apply-by-choice chill effect is on a terrible signet, the rest are just things like "ice armor" which chill foes who attack (which is useless if you're trying to KITE because it requires them hitting you first - and against champs, that means you're already dead, so the mob being chilled is 100% useless).

The irony of this situation is that, once again, Guild Wars PvE is plagued by balance restrictions placed by the PvP content. Except this time, it's absolutely unacceptable - it's a PvE MMO where the PvP is a massive shitfestival and a joke waste of time, so letting that interfere with the PvE content (by basically relegating one class to eternal bitchroledom because its lack of survivability prevents it from doing any kind of DPS role) is a huge mistake. Either way, the game honestly blows. Pandacraft launches in 2 days, and while I had hoped GW would eat up more than a month of my time, I guess I can say I got $60 of "fun" out of it (and then I hit 80, and had nothing to do aside from get instakilled in dungeons or pvp). -Auron 04:13, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

You totally forgot the part where the brilliant "Unshakable"/"Defiant" mechanic on most champs makes them all but immune to cc anyway. It's a big problem for all classes, not just eles, since half the skills for any given class are cc (apparently utility skills aren't allowed to deal damage in GW2). Also, I didn't tell you this story because I'm not allowed to talk to you, but there's a certain event in Charr lands where some Charr are battling a Flame Legion champ shaman. They're maintaining a bubble of Invunerable, so one of them runs out to attack, gets wounded, limps back to the bubble to regen, and another takes his place. In order to prevent players from cheesing the mob by standing in the bubble, all your skills are disabled while you're in it. Sounds neat, right? I thought I'd stand around for a bit inside the bubble and wait for others to help me with the event. Unfortunately Anet sucks at making things invincible, so the shaman actually managed to hit and instakill me through Invulnerable (wasn't ground targeted either, just one of his basic attacks). I went to Downed, but wait! I'm still in the bubble so all my skills are disabled and I couldn't Bandage to save myself, so I bled out. Needless to say I was MAD.

That reminds me that Invulnerable also has no effect on falling damage, and in this game mobs randomly also get Invulnerable even when they aren't stuck in walls, leashing, etc etc. And it actually works when they get it because I legit can't hurt them with anything, not dots, not ground targeted aoe, nothing. Stupid bullshit mechanics. I wish I had the money to play Pandacraft. That honestly looks legit awful as well, and as usual it'll be super buggy at release, but WoW has plenty of other things to keep me "entertained". Like I could go hunt for a Time-Lost Proto Drake...again. *cough* Vili 点 17:14, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

You know, much as I really, really, really, really don't want to be in the middle of a bitchfest between you two, and I think you're both absolutely retarded for... being on wiki, I can't really stop myself saying that that was pretty fucking nigger. -- Armond Warblade 17:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Cool fact, since the bubble doesn't disable environmental skills, you can sit inside using Conjure Frost Bow and Conjure Fiery Greatsword. It does interrupt the casting constantly but eventually they'll get summoned.--Relyk 17:35, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

About balance... At least the developers of Dragon Nest understood that you can't have the same skills for PvP and PvE from the start, so all skills have different stats and sometimes mechanics between PvP and PvE. It's not balanced by a long shot but it's still good enough for low teir e-sports in korea. PvE in that game is a whole different beast and every class can basically steam roll PvE provided that you have OP gear, OP reflexes, OP hand-eye coordination, and hit 13 different buttons 10 times a second. Vindictus is totally unbalanced and it also doesn't matter because every class can still beat PvE and all classes are competitive with each other when it comes to damage. A lot of people are bad players but at least you can try to practice to get your reflexes/timing/dodges and attacks to work more efficiently. You can't do that in GW2, there is just no way to dodge/avoid all the attacks, or deal more damage by playing more aggressively while stacking armor and defense. There is no way that even a twitchy korean high on a gallon of mountain dew to defeat a champion boss solo, while in games like vindictus and dragon nest you totally can. The difference between the average scrub and the top 1% skilled player is just practice, inherent reflexes&skill, and a dose of better gear. Won't matter how much tricked out your legendary gear is in GW2, no one is going to take down a champion boss solo. The part of the fun in action combat games like FPS shooters, 3rd person RPG, action RPG, is the fun in practicing and feeling like you get better every time you play. GW2 takes that away, and for that I can't call it an action oriented game. It's still a point and click MMO with a dodge mechanic with partial non targeted mechanics. You don't aim anything, you still target enemies, you don't have to memorize the range or aoe range of the skill because all those pretty circles tell you. (I have those AoE cirlces disabled. Honestly, you don't need it for PvE and it really takes away from the "learning" process to avoid visual cues of AoE.) I don't care if the elementalist is the toughest profession to play as long as practicing over time will make the profession as good as or better than anything else. But it is not. It took me just a few hours to get the hang of it and after that I didn't feel like my skill was growing as a player. My only chance at getting loot from mobs in a dynamic event is to play way too aggressively and suicidal, which I am sure that is not the way the profession is supposed to be played. On the other hand, I've been playing Vindicuts for almost 2 years off and on, and my skill in that game is still growing, and I get better every time I play. --Lania 18:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

One thing I do really miss from GW is the ability to customize your skills. The near-limitless combinations that produces have always fascinated me, and that's just... not present in GW2. I spent at least a year on PvX after quitting the game to judge builds off my prior experience and the word of my friends that still played, and I've been known to spend too many hours staying up analyzing combinations in D&D of feats and powers and calculating average damage. Hell, even Diablo 3 had some measure of skill customization, as flawed as it was (since so many of the skills were simply trash because you couldn't afford to get hit in melee). Now, granted, all of those games have devolved into "this is the right way to play and anything else is gimping yourself", but I'd argue that's a natural consequence of the lifespan of a game - even in randomized roguelikes, such as The Binding of Isaac, you eventually learn what items to take, what cues to look for, what strategies to use, and what to avoid. In GW2, I learn all my weapon sets within a few hours of unlocking them, and they're almost entirely set in stone. I can play around with utility skills and elites, but... a lot of elites tend towards the bad end of the spectrum, and your utilities feel predetermined by what your build is trying to accomplish.

Also, Auron, Arcane Shield is good, idk what you're talking about. The recharge sucks, but it's not like eles need more than shield + glyph of dust storm + water ele(s) + ridic toughness and/or vitality to solo the majority of PvE.

-- Armond Warblade 20:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Arcane shield is awful. You activate it, absorb three hits in a quarter of a second from the aoe around the champ mob that you can't slow/pushback/blind, then instantly die to the next melee autoattack. Alternatively, you activate it when running into a pack you know has a penchant for instakilling, watch as they instakill the person next to you, sit around reloading or whatever the fuck they do, and then when your shield falls off, they instakill you. It's a bad skill. Don't mistake "the least shit option eles have" for "actually good," because it isn't even close - and on that topic, it isn't even the best eles have. Armor of earth, mist form and lightning flash are all better options for staying alive. Arcane shield is like mist form lite, sacrificing a great deal of potential damage reduction for the ability to autoattack twice.

The problem with eles in any real content (see also; real content, not silly zone-clearing pve bullshittery) is that they instadie to too many mechanics. Part of this is a flaw in the design of the dungeon - autoattacks from champs should never be that lethal - games like WoW get away with it because tanks exist, and they forsake damage output in order to stack as much defense and mitigation as they can, and reduce the lethal-for-everyone-else damage down to manageable packets that they/healers can work with. In a game without "tanks" or "healers," lethal autoattacks are an absolutely unacceptable mechanic, and the fact that every silver-trimmed mob in every dungeon at every level range has them is a massive fucking joke. The second flaw is the one I touched on earlier - because they *chose* to make a game with lethal autoattacking champs and forgot to put in tanks or healers, it is their job as game designers to give classes suitable survivability utility skills.

At this job, they have failed miserably. Want proof? How about every melee class being required to equip a ranged weapon for any serious PvE fight ever, because the alternative would be putting themselves so close to a boss that 1. they have trouble seeing telegraphed attacks due to proximity to large bosses, 2. if (or more accurately, when) they run out of endurance from dodging the flurry of attacks aimed at melee, they would still be *in melee* and thus be instakilled before being able to retreat, 3. when they inevitably go down from the flurry of instakill mechanics, it becomes dangerous if not downright impossible for other party members to run forward into melee range and res them - partly because of far-too-spammable AoE mechanics, or far-too-prevalent instakill mechanics that start a chain of instakills leading to a party wipe.

To summarize, ANet has made some of the worst dungeons I have ever had the misfortune of playing. I thought Rift's heroics in tier 1 and tier 2 were bad enough, since they attempted to ape WoW's dungeons and didn't cut it, but they were still mechanically completable. Some were difficult, often incredibly so, but it was more about fight mechanics, understanding them, and playing around them than praying to the RNG gods you don't get targeted by the instakill mechanic for a fifth time in a row, because your downed HP has already been reduced so low that another instakill hit would surely mean irreversible death and a run back from the waypoint. And on that topic, what the fuck? Mid-battle waypoints even existing is an absolute fucking joke. The fact that you can run back into a boss battle mid-fight after being killed in it is ANet's own admittance that their content is so terribly designed they're giving players an exploit to get around it by zerging bosses ANet couldn't take the time to get right in the first place. Oh well, Pandacraft is out, and those dungeons have tanks, healers and boss fights that aren't designed like a cow-drawn cart full of shitpickles, so I guess I'll just log on GW2 to... uh... grind DE's. Dynamic engaging content. -Auron 09:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

GW2 really is just a disappointment on so many levels with dungeons nearly topping that list. I like the format and the idea of dungeons... just not when they take hours upon hours to clear with nothing to do other than to clear another cluster of mobs one after another. I only done Urgoz once because it takes too long. I've never cleared the UW or the fissure of woe because it also just takes too long. I don't have the attention span or the time to sit there for like 2-5 hours constantly staring at the pixels on the screen, mindnumbingly trudging through the same thing over and over gain . Why can't the dungeons be short and sweet like Vindictus's format? Even the longest taking 8 man raid dungeons in that game still only takes 40 minutes a run... while other raids about 10-20 minutes most of the time. Dragon nest is similar too, end game nests only take about 30 minutes max with a 2 man clear. Though they did just add the sea dragon nest that takes hours to clear... I never attempted that one. In any case, new update came out on Vindictus, and Season 2 content is around the corner. Level 50 cap and new content coming out soon for dragon nest too. Looks like I won't be back to play GW2 for a long while. --Lania 20:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

For the record, it's possible to solo a few champs with the right build - I've done it. But it doesn't even matter in this game because you don't get anything from it. Champs don't give appreciably better loot, and even if they're guarding a chest it probably just has some blues in it.

As for targeting, I turned off the "auto-aim AoE at the enemy's location" so I didn't know what you were talking about for a minute there. And I guess you're much better than I am at judging distances in a virtual game, because 99% of the time I have no clue at all where even super telegraphed attacks are going to land. (I don't mean the ones that fall from the sky/come up from below, but things with an arc and etc) But I agree that it does make the game a lot easier and overall hurts the community because it doesn't teach new players how to dodge things well. You can't dodge more than 2-3 times usually in GW2 so those dodges really have to count. Vili 点 22:54, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Speaking as one of the bads that can't dodge AoE without a circle on the ground (though I can do melee fairly well, for some reason), I find that the circles help me predict where I should dodge and in what order rather than simply telling me "dodge this now". -- Armond Warblade 23:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I find Signet of Stamina and various other endurance-enhancing skills and traits extremely useful. But yeah, it's difficult to dodge some attacks the very first time you play the thing, and that's how most problems are like in games anyways. However, dungeons are side content and AFAIK they are meant to be barely clearable. I've nothing against eles though, they're just wonderful IMO. Still haven't done a single dungeon with one, but sPvP is good. Mediggo 12:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

GW2 does a bad job at making "hitboxes" make any sense. Instead of the melee range be determined by whether the enemy's mace, sword, or any weapon makes contact with the character 3D model, it just has some kind of arbituary range and a arc. So you end up with situations like the mace is flailing around in the air and yet I'm hitting the enemy or I'm getting hit. I know I keep bringing up vindictus, but I think that game did melee hit boxes well. If that sword, mace, hammer or fist doesn't touch you, you don't get hit. But in GW2, you can be completely behind the enemy, and sometimes you still get hit. Being far enough away that their sword didn't touch me, yet I still get hit, and on the other hand, I apparently hit something with my great sword, and yet I miss even though the 3D model of the sword made contact with the enemy. GW2's combat is in essence the same as GW1 with dodges, and some non targeted skills, minus the tank, minus the monk, minus the innovation. I really don't see how people can honestly think/say that GW2's combat is new, different, and ground breaking. It's just the same mish mash of everything out there... kinda like poorly implemented mix of the combat in blade and soul, Tera online, wow, and GW1. --Lania 20:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll remind you that in most games you don't actually make a contact at anything with your weapon. Vindictus is an action game where each class can only wield their own weapons and there is only one race. That is remarkably easier than in games where same type weapons can be of variable lengths and sizes or where their wielders may be of different sizes in body and have different animation altogether. It's a compromise. Mediggo 06:07, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

It's a compromise, but in this day and age it's a poor one. The Smash Bros games have been doing hitboxes for years - not amazingly (yeah, thrusting my sword upwards hits things on my flanks and scores kills), but they make an effort. Games like Tera have taken the idea even further, where dodging an enemy by a millimeter is enough - and that's honestly a very exciting aspect of the game that I was expecting to get in GW2. We're not working with engines nearing a decade old, like WoW and RuneScape are (where, if you're moving fast enough, you'll take damage from a projectile attack as normal, but the animation will fly after you until it collides with you or you log out/change instances/etc). When you specifically advertise an active combat system that's different from the traditional systems (of, it's implied, games like WoW), people expect you to build off what's out there and make something better.

A better compromise - and I find myself wishing this of a lot of things - would be to borrow from Diablo 3's system. There were five classes with two genders, and each one was a specific (unnamed) hero - you had your story, it had the occassional comment that brought the story back to the class' origin story, and because there were only so many heroes, each animation was designed to, you know, make sense. It was far from a perfect system, but it's the kind of idea that I've wanted games to work with in the past and that I hope games will build off in the future. I would have been perfectly fine with ANet only allowing two classes per race at launch (charr warriors and engineers, asuran elementalists and mesmers, human thieves and guardians, norn warriors and rangers, sylvari rangers and, I don't know, whatever they figured would be easiest) if those classes had been much more polished and better integrated into the story.

-- Armond Warblade 19:17, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I think that's why people say Tera's combat system is better than GW2's. I've never actually played it so I can't really comment on which is better but if what you say is true, then I can understand why people say that. I played blade and soul beta for a little bit and I remember that the combat in that game was quite responsive and you can fly in that game, which is always a plus. I do agree that it's 2012 for gods sake, and any action-type game I've played used hit boxes extensively even back through 2003. Yeah I too was expecting where dodging by a millimeter counted where timing even down to 0.1 seconds can mean making the kill or getting killed. In action games that I've played, milliseconds count, and the controls are very snappy and extremely responsive. GW2's controls on the other hand are not. Everything has a long sluggish casting time... even melee attacks feel slow. GW2 is not a active combat system or even action oriented MMO combat. It's just the vanilla point and click MMO combat with a dodge mechanic, ability to move while casting, and being able to place AoE attacks, minus any kind of real profession role in a party (holy trinity). That's "hardly" action oriented. Another thing that bugs me is that I have to press the right mouse button constantly to move the camera. When playing, I have that button constantly depressed, and it's pretty freaking annoying and makes my hand tired over time. Yeah, I also agree that Anet tried to do way too much initially. 8 professions spread out between 5 races plus all the personal story options.... >_> --Lania 21:28, 02 October 2012 (UTC)

In fairness to ANet, it's hard to make an online-based action-y game and have it be appreciated properly. When milliseconds (or even tenths of a second) count, your servers have to be absolutely perfect and your customers need flawless internet, or else the experience will degrade rapidly. I remember playing D3 and my comcast would lag - something completely outside of blizzard's control - and I'd spend those 0.8 seconds wondering where, not if, I had died. That's just not fun, and the only real way around it is to only support single player mode. (Which, honestly, I would not be too opposed to, I think.) -- Armond Warblade 22:10, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) :From what I can tell from Nexon's online action games like vindictus and dragon nest, it gets around the lag issue by having the client "host" the game, so if you play by your self its basically like playing single player mode, no lag what so ever. If you play with friends you are at the mercy of your friend's computer's connection speed so usually hosts of 8 man raids have to have a pretty decent internet connection. In essence the game is playing real time on the client's system. So whenever you do anything it happens instantly on the screen and that info is then sent to the server. During moderate to minor lag whenever you dont play solo, you have to dodge 1/4 to 1/2 before attacks land because the server side seems to be a little bit ahead of the client during moderate lag. In GW1 and GW2 it seems like whenever you do "anything" that request has to go to the server first then afterwards it comes back to the client and then you see your character activate a skill or whatever. So whenever there is a lot of lag, your character just stands there doing nothing even though you activated a skill --Lania 22:51, 02 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me why I quit Vindictus. :P Mediggo 16:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Placeholder rant

Best name.

Are people really exploding on you for not liking it? I mean... I know I did that a bit to Auron during the beta(s), but that was because my husband and I have communication issues (I was holding high the ideals of the gameplay techniques, he was berating the reality of what was in the beta, I said beta is beta, he said anet is anet, etc). At this point, anyone who tells you you're silly for not liking GW2 is dumb. We've all had a chance to try it out, we've all given it a fair shot, and while a lot of people like it and will put another 5,000+ hours into it, there are those of us who don't. It's especially silly because, as you said, MMOs aren't your thing.

-- Armond Warblade 18:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Not really exploding but more like nagging endlessly. They think that just because I liked GW1 (instanced world MMO) so much that I should like GW2 (open world MMO) as well. GW2 is nothing like GW1. They might as well call it Tyria Online or something for as how different the game is. Maybe if I was more into open world MMO's I'd like it more :/ --Lania 20:02, 04 October 2012 (UTC)

Is it fun anymore?

Don't get depressed. Don't leave. I don't mistrust your code talk understanding or you as a skillful player with a lot of knowledge about how to play. I don't care if you are watching FOX News or vote for republicans or think there's a way to cure cancer by manipulating with DNA. What about a day for those with HIV the like Pink Day in LA? I wish you keep being a common signature here on this Wiki. With best regards --ICBM 10:38, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

It's not being depressed, it's just the game being awful. ANet promised the moon and delivered a half-finished product with an unending stream of bugs and design flaws that kill any joy one might get from playing before the person can even reach level 80 - and when they do, they promptly run out of things to do. When a PvE MMO is in the same market as WoW and it has no endgame... heh. I don't even know what they were thinking when they released it. -Auron 05:12, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't going to say anything but anyway... I'm currently playing a free online game over GW2. My friend has 50/50 HoM and didn't even buy the game. I'm not even bothering with the holiday events, and not really keeping up with the wiki anymore. --Lania 03:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

You should totally log in though - free account bound 15 slot bag for every player, no matter if they participated in Wintersday or not! Because, you know, Anet derped the code and those rewards were supposed to come from an event chest, but it bugged. Vili 点 06:19, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy holiday. I'm sad you don't like the game, because I love it ... and I didn't think I'd like the open-world vs instanced-world of GW1.

Still, I understand why a lot of GW1 fans (and others) don't. There's plenty to dislike about ANet's implementation of their own concepts. For me, none of that takes the shine off the game — I'm having a great time. Regardless, I hope you had are having a Merry this and a happy that and that 2013 is going to be a good year for you and yours. And I hope we find some other excuse to chat about something, if not about GW2 or GW2W. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 09:00, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm soon ready for accommodation for elderly. I will get a walker and Alzheimer's or whatever an old chap gets at age when you can't play Guild Wars anymore. Lania! Play and have fun... --ICBM 18:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip vili, I did log in just to get the free items, lol. The game still seems to be going strong at least, maybe one day they'll fix enough of the issues for me to like it. Have a happy new years everyone! :).--Lania 17:36, 31 December 2012 (UTC)