User talk:Infinite/Rant/Archive

Disregarding a few cases, I feel like this community has continued to be very welcoming. Awhile back, the wiki activity rose significantly, as did concerns about developing the wiki w/o guidance. If we're cutting down on red links, we need to remember to use the {{stub}} tag. Trivia's a good thing, imo, simply for the fact that it's nice to be reading articles & learning about references I may not have known. If trivia is only in user space, how are people supposed to find it? You said that trivia kills the official status, but I have to disagree with this. Given that trivia is at the bottom of an article, hardly any importance is relayed to it. Considering ArenaNet is technically responsible for the trivia since they include in-game references to pop culture, etc., I doubt they're worried about an "unofficial" status being conveyed. This is the Official Guild Wars 2 Wiki. A to-do list would be great.-- Shew 18:00, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I also believe the community is welcoming, disregarding occasional tensions sparked amongst users or tactless notifications on edits that are preferred left off wiki. In general we're a nice community. :)

The red links that are to be added in the nearby future could easily be replaced by a stub tag, but we also have a tremendous amount of red links no one will ever touch or come across. It would benefit the overwiew of the special pages drastically if the useless red links were removed/fixed.

Trivia *is* a good thing, but many contributors forget the main issue with trivia; trivia is not speculation. If it is an obvious reference (that merits no confirmation) or a confirmed reference, we have to add it. If it's not confirmed and/or not obvious, then we need to keep it off the wiki altogether. On GWW, the exact line for trivia was often blurred which led to an x amount of conflicts.

I might start a to-do list in the projects area in the nearby future, after I elaborated most of the topics mentioned on the page. :) - Infinite - talk 18:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

ArenaNet has a basic level of responsibility they need to live up to as host to the wiki - I don't think we should need to "sell our worth" get that.

That aside I agree with your positive suggestions for improving the wiki. I don't especially agree with your stance on trivia, speculation (see how you go trying to delete mesmer ...) and graphical flare but focusing on the good things is good right?

Another thing we could do to draw attention to ourselves is present the wiki as a fansite with a particularly dedicated, OCD community. Rather than passively hoping for information to fill stuff out we can identify and target questions and clarifications in an email interview format - which if we get answers we can post here. That would certainly draw attention to the site. -- aspectacle  22:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Note that the mesmer has been officially used in GoA and EoD, so I couldn't delete those pages even if I did want to. As for my stance on trivia, see my comment above yours. - Infinite - talk 22:41, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I am going to study this over and preach it as gospel. :D (Xu Davella 23:04, 18 February 2011 (UTC))

I'm going to do the same with his current rant. A F K When Needed 13:43, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Gay

I absolutely agree with you. It disappoints me that LBGT individuals think they need to flaunt their sexuality to be taken seriously, when actually the exact opposite is true. When a person I've known for a little while and I've decided is a good person says "Oh btw I'm gay" I say "Oh, cool." When some fag with eleven piercings in his dick creeps up and starts oozing all over me I punch him in the face. 08:01, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I really like this rant. I reckon people have made great strides to make a person's sexuality indiscriminate, and that's an amazing accomplishment. But LGBT? That's a sex community. That's all kinds of stupid right there. If I was gay, I would still want to make friends who share the same interests as I do, and be around those that I would want to care for in the future. Sex is intimate. If I wanted to be communal about it, I'd become a swinger. Sure, people are there to help out if you're having a hard time dealing with life, but apparently you're not gay unless you're LGBT-gay, as though you have to be a qualified homosexual to know how to show empathy towards others. --Xu Davella 09:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

If it helps, I never owned and or otherwise used a purse. I'm at a loss of words for what to say to these particular responses. :) - Infinite - talk 13:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I could have just made a "like" button, but that would mean I have programming knowledge - bam! I believe in indiscrimination, it's the sharp pointy thing at the end of the word equality. Anyway, I wont be the first to admit that I admire you and am a fan of your writing, but that's a little to personal for me, so I'm just going to say - ug ug in a train with a packet of brown yorkshire puddings hanging from olympus, unconventionally. --Xu Davella 14:08, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I found myself to believe that everyone is brainwashed, in one way or the other. Their beliefs fit in a particular society where many topics, like this one, is viewed in a particular way. This society, which can sometimes be in groups like community's, organisations, cults, and such, tend to stand ground on these matters, either not wanting to believe or not capable of believing (lack/none of motivation, interest, knowledge, understanding, or simply just denying or avoiding). Which you can come to a point that there is no actual belief that is correct. As we have our views on politics, economics and society, so does any other. The extend of our beliefs are even more complex. Which we then come at the last point, as I'm tying to make this not a tl;dr, that we have to believe in ourselves. As we cannot push a belief on each other, we can only try to let people know how we think, feel and belief. Try to make them understand a little bit. Ge4ce-Talk-Contribs 16:12, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

LGBT is very similar to the Feminist Movement. Both are very hypocritical and wish not-so-secretly to oppress others with their "freedom". One can be gay without being as "openly" so as LGBT, just as one can be an independent/free woman without being as "openly" so as a feminist. LGBT and feminism are both detrimental to their own causes because the force with which they wish to push "change" causes enough discomfort in the rest of the world as to breed opposition. The most efficient way to hasten the acceptance of LGBT and feminism is not to be stereotypically LGBT or feminist. Don't shove it, share it.

I do agree that we've been bred to perceive certain subjects in certain ways. The masses have been "brainwashed" into thinking that any opposition of a controversial matter is bad and that anyone who opposes the subject is bad for doing so. If one opposes homosexual exhibitionism then one must be homophobic and, thus, a bad person. If one opposes a public feminist rally which advertises males in bondage attire then one must be sexist and, thus, a bad person. I used extreme circumstances to make a point, but this mentality occurs in even the most passive of disagreements. This contributes to the discomfort toward homosexuals and feminists. If that mentality, which views any opposition as "bad", is fixed then it's highly likely that acceptance will begin a much steadier rise. If this doesn't sit well with anyone, enlighten me. If I've completely missed the entire conversation... oops. ^_^; Teddy Dan, yo. 08:16, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I respect you so much more after reading this

"The average heterosexual individual also doesn't label themselves as such. Not because heterosexuality would be a norm, a standard. Instead, it is because no one requires anyone else to shove their sexuality in others' faces."

"You fight for equality, yet whilst doing so you present yourself as unique, special, different. It's only natural you are not making any impact."

"Sexuality is not a prime characteristic."

^words of a wise man

"Speaking of "coming out", I think that is the biggest bullshit on the planet." - One of my gay friends (that seems strange; I normally have 'friends'; not a collection of different types) never told anyone. Well, maybe family; I wouldn't know. One day I just found out he had a boyfriend. It was strange... in a way I respected those who told me and were honest with me. Yet I was, if anything, proud of my friend for not making a big deal out of it. Does this reflect on them; or is really just me being vaguely proud of myself for not giving a shit? Who knows. I think it's just I was grateful to all of them for having a little faith in me; they didn't have to tell me, but they could.

My point is that I don't mind a friend pulling me aside and having a quick (~three sentence long) chat. If they're concerned about the effect it will have on their life, I've no problem with them telling me because they need to see the blatant I-really-couldn't-care-less look from someone they don't want to lose. You seem to have a strong objection to this - it's the one point in your rant where I fail to agree with you.

"I want to be a beacon of wisdom" - Many people in this community seem to. You're one of few to manage it thus far.

"The LGBT community is the stereotype. Has hardly anything to do with being proud of your sexuality. It is there to be different. To make a statement. And I am ashamed to be gay because of it." - This is a very sad, true reality.

Sorry for the colossal response when you may well not have been wanting any replies at all. I just want to add that I think - be it the media or reality itself - this isn't a perspective that's generally encountered. It represents the voices of many not normally heard, to risk being somewhat dramatic. I think it should be. I vehemently believe the core of homophobia is confusing the stereotype for (what I consider) the norm. A F K When Needed 13:09, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

The reason you differentiate on that particular point is very likely because it's partially my personal negative experience with people I thought were actual friends. They genuinely changed their attitude towards me and unfortunately it happens quite a lot, so I choose not to let them know unless it becomes a problem in any way. I wish they cared less, but apparently some people just care too much about this perhaps being a very bad thing (mainly because of the presence of a stereotype in the back of their heads, partially if not fully overriding their natural perspective on me). Needless to say I regret telling these people in the past and still have them behave as if nothing happened. - Infinite - talk 13:34, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I prefer gay friends. Less likely to run away with my girlfriend. A F K When Needed 13:42, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I see what you did there. ;P - Infinite - talk 13:45, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

To be gay isn't special or unique in my eyes, so I agree with your rant. Although I share the opinion of AFK, I understand what you mean and I also know some people who had negative experience with coming out, specially with friends. Last, I do like the fact that you still behave and live like always, because I become always slightly irritated (and I don't want to discriminate) by the stereotypes with the purse.. -- Cyan 14:18, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I wish to clarify my position because I'm all but convinced Cyan mis-interpreted my point, which raises if Infinite (I don't think he did) did likewise.

I think there is nothing wrong with telling people and that it's okay if you wish to or feel the need to do so (which of course, should not be the case). I'm not saying "DO IT", just "go for it if you want to". A F K When Needed 18:19, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I got your point right =) -- Cyan 23:26, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

This could not have been discussed in a more agreeable manner. Personally, I'm of the mind that anyone can prefer anyone so long as my wife is not the target and PDA is maintained at a conservative level. As for how I (would) handle homosexual friends "coming out", if I didn't know before and it isn't something that causes anybody physical or psychological harm then what reason would I have to change anything? You can only gauge a person's reaction after they react. If they're the type of person who would react so negatively about this subject as to distance themselves from you solely because of it then they do not deserve the significance in your life that you had placed on them. Either way, you lose nothing. Sound good? Teddy Dan, yo. 10:25, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Which is why I only "come out" (I hate that term) when things start to get problematic or when I am asked in earnest. It is kind of a loss when your ex-best friend changes his attitude completely, though. - Infinite - talk 12:33, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Understandable. I just have a very cold perspective. I cut off undesirable actions and people rather quickly and easily, because I'm very intolerant of such things as deceit and hypocrisy. But, I also understand and welcome the fact that mine is not a common perspective. "Freedom should be its strongest amidst friends and lovers." (provided mutual honesty and respect are maintained) Teddy Dan, yo. 23:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

"such things as deceit and hypocrisy"

...you don't know what either of those words mean, do you? :/ A F K When Needed 22:29, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I do. Please don't insult me/my intelligence. Teddy Dan, yo. 00:18, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

AFK and Teddy, does this really need to spread to another page? And Infi, respectable rant is respectable. - 00:26, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope. Teddy Dan, yo. 00:30, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

"another page" waaat A F K When Needed 20:28, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyway, I don't think I have anything else to add to Infinite's topic at this time. Teddy Dan, yo. 22:43, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Just want to say...

You win the internet for the post. I would elaborate like AFK above (HI AFK) but frankly it's late and I am tired. ShadowRunner 22:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I prefer procrastination over effort. :] - Infinite - talk 22:52, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Hai! A F K When Needed 20:27, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Fantastic rant was fantastic. --Odal talk 15:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Kudos from me, for what it's worth (I've never interacted with you before I randomly found your user page and your rant, but you seem awesome!). My boyfriend and I have similar feelings toward the LGBT community. We've been together going on three years now, and although we both have our reasons for wanting to keep to ourselves, many of gay peers feel like it's our duty to put on rainbow capes and "prove" to the world that two men are capable of monogamous stability...which is about as bullshit as the concept of "coming out," that it's expected of us to flaunt and parade our relationship, and that we're judged for not doing so. I could go on with our beef with the LGBT community, but my main point was that I think your rant was very well thought-out, and that I was very, very excited to see another Guild Wars fan thinking on some of the same issues as me. Fritzywiggins 06:18, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Indeed

You're asbsolutely right. I should not have allowed the hateful, ignorant BS on the Engineer talk page to goad me into turning it into a forum. Seeing as I was one of the original and biggest accelerants to that melodramatic bonfire, I apologize for letting my nature get the better of me once again. In the future, I hope to remember to simply inform these unfortunate users that their poorly-researched (or research-lacking) ramblings don't belong on article/mainspace talk pages... with as much civility as I can muster. Teddy Dan 05:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Request to Quote/Repost

You put into words perfectly what I've been trying (and generally failing) to explain to people for a long time. Would you be OK with me reposting this, and if so what conditions would you like to place upon me doing so (e.g. (how) would you want me to credit you)? -- Frozzen 09:09, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Now that you mention it, I had some spare time and thought I'd go ahead and compile a very accurate summary of what I think Infinite is trying to convey. Here are my findings:

• A guild wars 2 wiki is: An encyclopedia.
• A guild wars 2 wiki is not: A forum.
• Why should I listen to you?: You shouldn't. But you're a bubble so who cares.
• In conclusion: This is not a forum.
• :D --Xu Davella 09:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

My rants are free to be reproduced. Intellectual property on a collective problem is probably not viable anyway.... :P

Repost wherever, whenever, whatever.

Very accurate summary. Personally I believe the line: "You are in a bubble that we forgot to pop when you arrived here." in itself is a semi-acceptable summary as well. Guess I need to include tl;dr versions in my rants from now on, for good measure. :) - Infinite - talk 12:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

I was actually referring to the second rant on your page... -- Frozzen 22:14, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Applies to them all. Don't sweat the details! :P - Infinite - talk 22:17, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

New rant

You can say that again. And again, if need to be. I know I'm not exactly enforcing this practice, as I end up adding to or discussing about unrelated topics. But I'm still trying. And I think everyone should. Mediggo 13:22, 16 September 2011 (UTC)