User talk:Emelend/Energy Research

Note that armor is likely capable of granting extra energy. - Infinite - talk 20:20, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

There are already discrepancies. We can see that there are 2 level 45 warriors listed, and their energies cannot match up. Venom20 20:21, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry guys, I'm going over all my notes and I don't know where that Warrior information came from. If someone finds a video or screenshot with those numbers, we can put it back up, but I'm taking it down for now. Please don't discount the entire purpose because of that. :) The rest of my information came from the following videos: [1], [2], [3] Also, on a related note-- I haven't seen any equipment that adds directly to energy yet, just to willpower. That's one reason why it's listed. --Emelend 22:14, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I see. I wasn't disregarding it, though. Just wanted to put up the notice. :) Maybe we can even reach some point where we can figure out how much "hidden" energy is gained in some footages of the demo. Might include interesting facts! =] - Infinite - talk 23:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Trends

Pure speculation, of course; from what we can see so far, and energy is a multitude of 5 at all times the:

• Elementalist starts off following a + 4 Willpower, + 25 max base energy trend.
• Warrior has 30 Base Energy and currently goes up 45 per level (45*45=2025), Willpower also goes up + 4 every level and starts at a base of 2 Willpower.
• Other data is unknown at this point.

I think that's correct for what it's worth. - Infinite - talk 23:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I also just realized it seems inevitable there's going to be steeper, though linear parts in the curve, compared. - Infinite - talk 23:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that was my impression after looking at the data. Some sort of graduated system like "elementalists gain 25 energy per level up to level 20, at which point it increases to 35 per level, and so on". Just an example. --Emelend 01:35, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I have on my noteblock right now. Trying to think of possible trends that take curve changing into account. The first 3 Elementalist results got me thinking these linear parts are changed either every 4, 5, 8 or 10 levels, with my mind inching towards a multitude of 8. - Infinite - talk 01:55, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I might try to put my brain in here. I just got through several days of theory-crafting, so my creativity is a bit dry. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 05:13, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for that new data, that makes it possibly much easier! –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 03:49, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Of course. :) I was surprised they showed off a level 10 character. I wonder if they demoed any thing in the 20-40 range... --Emelend 04:27, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I think the upper level of the human demo was around 11-15, according to the ANet Blog (specifically the parts from Writer Scott McGough and Designer Curtis Johnson), not sure on the upper-level content for the charr demo, but it was likely around whatever level the Shatterer was. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 05:33, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Good note, you're probably right. The Shatterer is level 50. I wonder why that's not mentioned on its page. The highest level character I've seen so far was level 48, but I suppose it would be hard getting much higher in such a short amount of time. --Emelend 05:49, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Currently listing all the data we know and full lists based on the trends I can see, then overlapping them slowly as more data rolls in. :) I am putting way more time into this than I should. :P - Infinite - talk 10:16, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Bases

Again, speculation. We can follow the (Human) Ele and (Human) Necro trends back to level 1 and (level 0):

Human Elementalist:

• Base energy at level 1 is 125
• Base Willpower at level 1 is 20
• Base total energy at level 1 is 225

Human Necromancer:

• Base energy at level 1 is 125
• Base Willpower at level 1 is 30
• Base total energy at level 1 is 275

And for level 0, ground variables:

Human Elementalist:

• Base energy at level 0 is 100
• Base Willpower at level 0 is 16
• Base total energy at level 0 is 180

Human Necromancer:

• Base energy at level 0 is 100
• Base Willpower at level 0 is 27
• Base total energy at level 0 is 235

Of course, level 0 is just for documentational purposes. :) For the Charr I will calculate as soon as I find more information. - Infinite - talk 11:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Good job with that so far. I don't know for sure if race alters it at all, that was a "just in case" thing. --Emelend 13:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I would imaging that race should have nothing to do with it. Venom20 14:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Race won't alter it, because they're identical stat-wise, there's no differences in starting stats, base energy, anything. It's purely class-based. Remember all that races are even stuff? Shadowed Ritualist 22:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Race should be irrelevant, but we don't know that yet. I think the base energy is a piecewise function, because it wouldn't make sense for charr to have ^-1465 energy at level 1, but they fit evenly into a linear, just like our human data. I'm thinking that there will be another piece (maybe several pieces) in between our current "human function" (25L+100) and our "charr function" (80L-1545) because a.) there is a nonsensical slope change b.) the lines intersect at repeating decimal values (29.9090 , 847.7272), while all other numbers have been integers (and multiples of five). –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 03:46, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Exactly my thoughts, Sparky. I don't honestly believe that race will have an effect, but I'd like to leave it in the chart. I actually spent some time trying to construct some possible intermediate energy equations, but nothing obvious seemed to fit. I couldn't get it to work with 15, 16, or 20 level ranges, which seemed the most likely to me. --Emelend 12:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

My predictions

In light of all the data that's been collected, I would like to predict that base energy is the same, regardless of profession, and that the energy cost of skills is a set percentage of that base energy. Look at the level 48 elite skill costs listed, as compared to the level 48 base energy. --Emelend 15:16, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Very good point there. If this proves to be true, it will make determining changes in trends more easy. :)

EDIT: At level 11 Elementalist and Necro have the same base energy. After that, the Necro wins. The trends however, disagree with the break being either there or before there. The difference level 10/11 for Necro is 35, whereas the difference 10/11 for Ele is 25 in speculation. There *has* to be a change somewhere inbetween or the sources weren't clear enough. - Infinite - talk 16:00, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I see what you mean. That is troubling. It would all come together so nicely if the level 10 base energy for the Necromancer was 350. Any perhaps it is and I just misread some numbers. In the source video, it is unclear if the player's energy is 625 or 635. Here's a relevant screenshot: [4] Maybe someone else has a better eye than I do. --Emelend 17:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

After closely watching the energy bar in the source video (especially while the player is using skills), I am changing the data in the table. It appears Necromancers have 635 at level 10. Sorry for undoing some of your work there. :) --Emelend 21:17, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Luckily it's all in Excel, so not hard to alter now. :) I will change the bases now. - Infinite - talk 21:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I've calculated the percentage costs of all the skills with known cost values and listed them on the page. The percentages are very clean, and I am pretty much sure this is how energy costs are calculated. So! Perhaps now a proper skill info box can be created, and this information implemented in the skill pages? --Emelend 23:41, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The percentages are rounded up and down and you used bases I'm not even finding in the top table. Care to include the base energy you found for, say level 47 when calculating Elementalist skills? As for the skill infoboxes, it will have to be very clear that the cost is a rough percentage of the base energy and not the total energy, without confusing people easily. I like how the skill costs all make perfect sense in percentages, though. :) - Infinite - talk 08:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it's the other way around. Using these percentages, all skill costs are rounded up. 2295 * .15 = 344.25, 2295 * .12 = 275.4, 350 * .07 = 24.5, etc. The base energy for level 47 is 2215. 46 should be 2135. --Emelend 12:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Assuming the base energy is the same for all professions, I see. I didn't want to assume so just incase, but I will make a extra tables based on that statement now. :) - Infinite - talk 12:37, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sources

Two things about them; sources where we don't know anything about their willpower (base or not, armor is fine) can be left out altogether. There's no use for just maximum energy as there's too many variables to take into account. Also, there's no new patterns I can read at this point. - Infinite - talk 15:49, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

PAX East

I believe we may have a lot of new info coming up. I hope everyone is still thinking about this from time to time! :) - Infinite - talk 23:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I hope so! The only thing I've thought of since the last thing is the game's rounding error, which could easily throw us off. Haven't been able to do anything with it, though. Maybe the secret behind energy is about to not be a secret. –~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) ←♥– 00:46, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

So maybe this needs to start over altogether

Reluctant as I am in stating this; willpower is no longer in the game. I say we collect all upcoming demo footage and start fresh. - Infinite - talk 01:31, 16 July 2011 (UTC)