Talk:Escape from Lion's Arch (living world)

Split

I'm assuming we want to split this page. Firstly it's quite long and secondly the living story only tells you to go to a refugee camp, speak with someone and then enter/leave Lion's Arch, meaning most of the dialogues are not really a part of the mission (unlike when you visit an instance). On the other hand, the camps might be removed in two weeks, do we wait and see what happens? Of course then there's Heal-o-Tron whose ambient dialogue takes place over two areas. Do we split it, keep it in one area? Create landmark pages for the refugee camps and put everything in there?--Sialor (talk) 09:48, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps, but only because the page is getting long. There's a fine line between the dialogue that is part of the mission/story/living world content and the one that isn't. Even instances tend to have certain objectives and some more optional dialogue, but in that case it clearly makes sense to put it all together. Then you have last week's mission, where speaking with Siriam was the objective but Canach wasn't and neither was listening to the ambient dialogue, although it still is part of the story, so should we split those for the same reason? The same goes for Braham and Taimi in the following section. I'm not really a fan of creating different versions of areas to hold the new dialogue, because then you get a lot of pages where the dialogue would be mostly hidden; for instance, regular Lion's Arch has the ambient dialogue on the area pages, so should we create 14 new area pages for Lion's Arch (Under Attack!) to hold the few lines there are in the city now instead? They would be mostly empty, how would you be supposed to find it all then? On the other hand, putting temporary dialogue on the regular area pages can be quite confusing as well, such as Siriam and Canach's discussion on Fort Marriner.

However, when it comes to splitting the page because of the length, it would of course be only natural to group and name them based on the rough location. In any case, I agree we might want to wait for a while to see what happens to LA and the camps in the next few weeks. 10:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

As I see it there's a story and then there's a story. You got the living story content, which is the new refugee camps and all that and then you got a living story mission that takes part within that content but I think what is and isn't part of that mission is defined by the objectives in your tracker. At the very least we should split this into two pages - one for just the mission with objectives, walkthrough and dialogue (which is marked by the yellow stars) and one for the rest, given that most NPCs have a one line of dialogue anyway. The non-ambient dialogue of the major NPCs should be on their pages.

Lion's Arch currently doesn't have any ambient dialogue on its own, I think, it's all part of the events. --Sialor (talk) 12:34, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not at all opposed to splitting the open-world living world dialogues from the mission objectives and potentially walkthrough, especially when there's this much of it, so long as it doesn't get too fragmented. I'm not completely sure how is, say, Rytlock's or Peneloopee's interactive dialogue more relevant to the story of The Origins of Madness: A Moment's Peace than Lawson Marriner's or Healer Halloway's one is on this page, other than the first being an instanced area, but whatever. And I could be mistaken, but I think that at least Marjory's and Kasmeer's ambient dialogue in warzone LA isn't tied to any particular event. (Another question is how to call the two pages. The open world dialogue one could be called just that, but what about the objectives? Maybe, as you started calling it, mission, but that isn't really used for GW2...)

The interactive dialogue should certainly go to the NPC articles as well but I wouldn't consider it a good idea to do so exclusively; not only does it unnecesarily fragment the scenes and remove a lot of the context this collection provides, which might be very important to keep for future, but if we just were to link to the NPCs, it might even be harder to upkeep. For instance, if Lionguard Seraka Jaggedtail returns in a later release, her current dialogue will be moved to a subpage and the link there from this page, which would very likely not be updated in the process, would become invalid. Considering the dialogues make sense on both pages and they won't really ever change after the release ends, we might as well just copy-paste them to both places. 19:48, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Well, you don't get to know what Rytlock has to say unless you decide to take part in the story and enter the instance, relevance is questionable but there's nowhere else to put it. On the other hand if I decided to ignore the Edge of the Mists story I'd still hear Canach and Siriam talking in Fort Marriner.

The thing is: a player looking for information is most likely going to look on NPC and Area pages, and that's what he should do. Then if he wants to know more about what's going on we will give him a link to a summary (i.e. this page). That's how the wiki should work, I think. In the end every page like this is going to be long and if you wanted to have everything in there you'd need to include NPCs from half a world away, just because they have a new bit of dialogue related to the current story. --Sialor (talk) 12:05, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

It depends; if the player is looking for more information on an NPC he already knows is part of the story, he will look there and, yes, then he can follow to the summary page. On the other hand, if he's looking for more information on the story, he will most likely look at the release page and then follow a link to the story/dialogue summary. In other words, it should go both ways.

If length of the summary is an issue, bear in mind that the dialogue summaries on the NPCs like this one are only going to get longer. One day, we'll probably have to split those as well and that would bring even more problems to upkeeping the links there if the dialogues wouldn't be mirrored on both pages. Besides, the interactive and ambient dialogue often go very much hand in hand and it makes sense to keep them together at least somewhere. And for "if you wanted to have everything in there you'd need to include NPCs from half a world away", that's the idea, because where else would you put it?

Anyway, I do actually agree with the split of the mission thingy and the dialogue, I just don't agree with removing the dialogue altogether or just leaving it at NPCs or areas, because that's a sure-fire way to have it forgotten over time. 11:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)