Talk:Defeat the massive earth elemental and stop the Harathi High Sage

If you have information about the respawn of this boss, whether it's on a clock timer, or a time since last kill, or whatever, please post it here! Have seen many people asking for that info in map chat. -47.186.13.210 03:22, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it's either 1 or 2 hours after last kill. If you stand in the area, about 15 minutes (might be longer) the whole area turns reeeeally red. After a bit some centaurs span inside the tower and start to run around in circles. Over time more and more spawn running in circles until eventually the boss spawns. That's all I know. -Darqam 15:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Super late to the party but I did a complete event investigation on the map and this event spawns 1.5 hours after last kill.Horus-ra (talk) 23:50, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

IP 76.19.136.153 suggests the above comment is inaccurate. -Chieftain Alex 16:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It's not a suggestion. Look at the time data table below. Data, rather than Horus-ra simply saying "this is how it is." There's only a few entries actually near the 1.5 hour mark. But feel free to actually hop in the game, ask anyone on the map, it's anywhere from 60-120 minutes. If it spawns at all.

Most likely something changed in the programming since that comment from 2018 and this page needs a bit of love, I'll try to make appropriate updates based on my investigations today. This is Tofu Tofu Tofu Tofu if anyone saw me camping my best friend High Sage in game :) -Caeldom (talk) 23:25, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Tofu, I was chatting with you about the timing. I thought it was last year, but it was 2021, when they rolled out the Prismatic Champion's Regalia and the associated Return to Events. For the 3 hour wait: I have screenshots, showing me stating the last kill was at 3:38 server time...then a screenshot at 6:39, thanking everyone for the run. This was on a map I had camped on for a while, and had been previously successful. A LOT of very angry players. I thought I had screenshots of people complaining, but can't find them. I did around 5 days of runs, 10-12 hours each day, so probably about 45-50 Sages, with data for all of it. I want to say, during that time, the average was 70~ minutes. Truly kicking myself, that I must have thrown it out when the event was over, rather than digitize it. It's great to see folks working on making this page better, though. Players are so accustomed to things being tied to events or timers, that it's understandably frustrating for them to come to this event, and it doesn't follow the norm. If we can't be accurate about time, at least we can give an accurate warning. Strawberry Mouse (talk) 18:43, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Hey Strawberry! Yeah honestly it is pretty wack when the whole Lake Doric map itself is entirely centred around a strict scheduled meta, making it super unintuitive. All geee with the data, probably would be similar to what we're seeing now, for the most part. It just sucks for the players who get to sage at an unlucky timing. I'm still determined to work it out eventually!

I am now rewording what I originally wrote on the page as I have had an increasing number of players on the map informing everyone that the wiki says sage timer is 70-120 or 180 and taking that as gospel, when the extreme waits are outliers and more often than not, the wait is 60-80 mins. Also adding a point about the map instance closure moving to a map where sage is just about to spawn, which I personally experienced and got sage twice. This could give a "second chance" for players who just missed it, and could be a viable strat they may want to try. --Caeldom (talk) 05:08, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

While I agree that the page info should just stick to the known and recorded (min/max) respawn times with a rough estimate for the mean, I don't think the main page is the right place for speculation regarding "giving people another chance". Sure, it can be that way. It can also be pure coincidence and overinterpretation of said coincidence and there are no signs for similar "grace systems" anywhere in the game. I would suggest leaving the map closure conjecture here on the talk page. --BelleroPhone (talk) 08:35, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I know the strategy suggestion is meant in good faith, but I agree with BelleroPhone. Different maps have Sage at different times, so it makes sense that swapping maps would "likely" give you a sooner respawn time. But it might be in 5 minutes, or 60-80 minus 5~. And if it happens to be a 90+ minute map...you've swapped to a potentially longer wait time. I suggest adding a "Recommended Strategies" section on this talk page, and just have a link to it on the main page. I would add, however...this year seems to be significantly less bugged than 2021. I hesitate to say bug-free, but I've been watching map chat a lot, haven't seen anyone mention "bad map" or "bugged" etc...which was overwhelmingly common in 2021. Still hopeful that it can be tied to any other map event. If not causation, at least correlation... Strawberry Mouse (talk) 14:43, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

I think from an informational perspective though, it is not immediately intuitive to a player that sage spawns wildly different times on different map instances because there isn't much information on the wiki about how map instances differ, or regarding boss spawns, mainly because most events follow a schedule across all instances and are more or less synced and it isn't necessary. Most players probably don't realise sage is a dynamic event, and furthermore don't understand how dynamic events work.

I feel the way sage is required for multiple player objectives and subject to such long reset gives reason for the wiki to raise awareness to the fact that he is not synced across all instances (as is the behaviour of dynamic events). It's up to the player what they want to do with the information, which would only apply in a situation where the map has confirmed to them that they just missed sage, and told that they have to wait up to 60-80 minutes, I think many players would try something available to get sage earlier. To be fair, I wasn't saying the wiki should suggest it as a strategy, or that it gives players a second chance, that was just my opinion. So I wouldn't make a section for it, but I think it's helpful for the information to be publicly available for awareness of players in a case such as this. --Caeldom (talk) 18:49, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Interesting comment, I'm starting to think I overinterpreted details in your choice of words, especially regarding the "second chance" - I took your addition to the main page as adding an untested hypothesis ("there is a grace system here, so if you change maps, you are more likely to get it in 10 minutes"). But after reading your change again, especially now that you clarified it here on the Talk page, I believe that was simply a misunderstanding.

My suggestion therefore is the following: I will attempt to reword your contribution to what I now believe was the intended message - with the goal of it sounding less hypothetical and more of a hint/suggestion/strategy advice. If you like it, great! If you hate it - feel free to revert it and let us continue discussion here. If you have any sort of small change in mind, of course don't hesitate to build on my (future from this point in time) change. --BelleroPhone (talk) 05:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Unbound magic orbs

I just did the event, I counted 16 of these orbs on the ground, within the tower walls. Aikan (talk) 16:20, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Bugged?

Does anyone else find this event bugged? I went to the top and found the elemental but it is not targetable and no centaurs nearby. Says High Sages stampeding Centaur remaining: 0 Lucky.9421 (talk) 06:08, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Well, *did* anyone else find that this event was bugged since 2018? The main page still says "frequently" bugged, but given how often Sage gets killed during the current Return to Season 3 event, maybe we should remove the bug notice at the end of the week? --BelleroPhone (talk) 11:21, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Great, I actually thought of asking Support about the event spawn time and they did their research and found... this bug notice, hence suggested contacting the QA team either via the Bugs forum or the /bug ingame menu. They weren't able to help me otherwise. Well, no dice here, but maybe this guy really is bugged and the respawn times are not supposed to be like this? --BelleroPhone (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Removed the bug template and added a reference to this section/topic on the main page. As of 2024, based on comments here, the bug(s) seem to either have been fixed or a least diminished. Especially since we have a very detailed description of the bug here, in contrast to the vague bug notice on the main page. --BelleroPhone (talk) 05:48, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Some spawn times - respawn time research

Times are times between two deaths (as per combat/item drop log), so actual respawn (death -> start of event) will be 2-3 minutes shorter and times were recorded at high player count, so Sage died after 1-2 minutes after the start of the event.

Red aura effect is about 2,5 minutes before events begin.

Sage kills (same instance)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
4:18 UTC	n/a
5:33 UTC	75 min
6:37 UTC	64 min
8:05 UTC	88 min

--BelleroPhone (talk) 09:10, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Sage kills (same instance)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
8:54 UTC	n/a
10:11 UTC	77 min
11:20 UTC	69 min

--BelleroPhone (talk) 11:37, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Sage kills (same instance)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
17:20 UTC	n/a
18:30 UTC	70 min
19:56 UTC	86 min
21:28 UTC	92 min

Sage kills (same instance)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
15:20 UTC	n/a
16:23 UTC	63 min

--BelleroPhone (talk) 21:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Sage kills (after reset)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
(00:00 UTC)	server reset
00:58 UTC	58 min

--BelleroPhone (talk) 01:02, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Sage kills (same instance)

Kill time	Kill-to-kill period
5:17 UTC	n/a
6:35 UTC	78 min
7:35 UTC	60 min

--BelleroPhone (talk) 08:48, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Adding more spawn time info from today

Spawn time intervals

Spawned	Defeated
00:37	00:40
71 mins (from spawn), 68 mins (from defeat)
01:48	01:50
84 mins (from spawn), 82 mins (from defeat)
03:12	03:14
84 mins (from spawn), 82 mins (from defeat)
04:36	04:38
87 mins (from spawn), 85 mins (from defeat)
06:03	06:06
Note: Changed map instance due to closure For ref only: 69 mins (from spawn), 66 mins (from defeat)
07:12	07:14
97 mins (from spawn), 95 mins (from defeat)
08:39	08:42

--Caeldom (talk) 17:50, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Awesome! Thanks for hopping on the timing train! I have a question about your "Kicked from map instance": I assume you mean the map closure "mushroom" timer, are the other times apart from that one on the same IP? Because if you changed IPs/map instances between 6:03 and 7:12, the spawn time between those two timestamps should be removed, do you agree? --BelleroPhone (talk) 00:23, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

🚂 Choo choo! I didn't even know there was a train haha, honestly it was purely out of frustration when I started this new map 2 days ago and constantly missing Sage, asking people and nobody knowing the timer so I started logging times, then checking the wiki and realising this info needed verification. Yeah the map closure only happened the one time, so the data was over 2 map instances, and I still included the calculated difference there just to track what difference changing instances makes, which now I know it certainly does as I had one time that I was able to get Sage twice in a row after an instance change!

Anyway you should check my more recent tests below, I feel like I've almost cracked it, it's actually so exciting. --Caeldom (talk) 08:32, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Theory: Maybe completion/failure of nearby dynamic event may influence when this event occurs?

I want to investigate a theory because the reset intervals seem so inconsistent, and dynamic events tend to run into this issue where they need to be "kick-started" by a nearby event if one wants it to occur/reset. Perhaps all the shorter intervals have been because some other dynamic event elsewhere in Watchtower Cliffs was completed earlier within the buffer time that this event is allowed to reset, inadvertently by others? And perhaps that could explain the instances with waits longer than 90 mins... Since most people waiting for Sage to spawn will just wait at Fallen Watchtower or farm centaurs, and not be aware of the other events happening elsewhere. --Caeldom (talk) 23:45, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

I have some new and exciting data hehe!

So I decided to test an initial theory that MAYBE defeating 3 Legs (after a Sage defeat) in the same map instance was some form of pre for triggering Sage to reset. And to my surprise, this first test actually worked?? I was waiting at the tower after the 3rd Leg died xx:04, hoping 10 mins would be enough for Sage to spawn, though when xx:14 ticked over and nothing happened, I can't say I didn't feel a bit disappointed.. 8 mins later suddenly the red aura appeared, and we all couldn't believe it! I will need to do further testing as this could very well be a coincidence, but it was by far the shortest reset time that I have personally had Sage spawn.

Boss	Time
Sage	xx:20 spawn, xx:22 defeat
Cairn (New Loamhurst xx:45-xx:30)	xx:29 defeat, just before meta end
Immel (Noran's Homestead xx:30-xx:00)	xx:32 defeat
Agatha (All Along xx:00-xx:45)	xx:04 defeat
Sage	xx:22 spawn 60 min after last defeat!!

It may very well explain why Sages take a lot longer to reset because a Leg may have been defeated during or just before a Sage event, which will not count it towards the reset, and so the next 3 Leg spawns will be delayed by the time left on the current meta. In the worst case scenario, this could be like ~43 minute delay if Agatha dies at the start of meta and just before Sage ends, 45 min for New Loamhurst meta to finish (so Cairn would be first to count), 30 min for Norans meta (Immel second), whatever x min to when Agatha is defeated, finally the 10-20 mins buffer for Sage to trigger. --Caeldom (talk) 08:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I was just about to write the following when your comment beneath Round 2 came in:

Hmm, an exciting hypothesis (respawn is 60 minutes if all three Legendary meta bosses were killed), but definitely needs more data. On the other hand, it is easy to see a pattern where there is none, since the meta events *do* happen on a timer and Sage somewhat has a timer now that the Bonus Event is happening. I'm excited to see what more data will show, but honestly I'm ready to see a huge variance, legy kills nonwithstanding :) --BelleroPhone (talk) 11:12, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

ROUND 2

Boss	Time
Sage	xx:01 spawn, xx:04 defeat
Agatha (All Along xx:00-xx:45)	xx:06 defeat
Cairn (New Loamhurst xx:45-xx:30)	xx:45 defeat
Immel (Noran's Homestead xx:30-xx:00)	n/a
Sage	xx:16 spawn, 72 mins after last defeat

Well it was a good theory but this definitely confirms you do not need all 3 Legs defeated. There's something else involved... --Caeldom (talk) 09:39, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

ROUND 3

Boss	Time
Cairn (New Loamhurst xx:45-xx:30)	xx:45 defeat
Sage	xx:57 spawn, xx:00 defeat
Immel (Noran's Homestead xx:30-xx:00)	xx:30
Agatha (All Along xx:00-xx:45)	xx:05 defeat
Sage	xx:22 spawn, 82 mins

--Caeldom (talk) 07:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

ROUND 4 - all same map instance

Time	Event
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:01	Sage spawned
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:16	Sage spawned (85)
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:33	Sage spawned (87)
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:57	(84) No call so I went up and Sage had spawned and waiting, defeat some time after xx01
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:22	(85) UM SAGE HAS A SCHEDULE CONFIRMED MAYBE?? I called a predict of spawn xx22 on map based on past data (if you were there and seeing this, I'm Tofu Tofu Tofu Tofu), they thought I was crazy but holy shit he spawned on the dot (red aura turned on). I mean the chances of that would be incredibly low if he really is based variables. But this has to be tested to double check.

--Caeldom (talk) 09:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Caeldom, could you put in your words what your hypothesis here is? I've read your notes here and I don't think I understand if fully :( You called the xx:22 spawn based on which times exactly? --BelleroPhone (talk) 11:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I was writing it up in a new section just then, hang on I'm fixing the edit conflict now --Caeldom (talk) 11:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I called xx22 based on the spawn times for Round 3, and I have a vague memory of seeing the same pattern of spawn time in some previous instances where I didn't record. --Caeldom (talk) 11:25, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Tofu's Sage Schedule Theory

So my working theory is that Sage always skips the meta event after the one he just spawned in, spawns in the next one after that. And I hypothesise that the times he spawns do have a schedule depending on which meta he spawns in, so I'm going to collect all the data and if the theory is correct, at least there will be a reference rather than some variable range.

"Spawned" refers to the moment red aura goes up and Sage is spawned into existence, coming up the mountain. --Caeldom (talk) 11:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Time	Event
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:01	Sage spawned
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:16	Sage spawned
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:33	Sage spawned
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:57	Sage spawned
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:22	Sage spawned (as predicted)
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:51	Sage spawned (predicted 38 but a bit off)
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:07	Sage spawned (predicted xx10)
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:15	Sage spawned (as predicted)
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:25	Sage spawned (predicted xx32, 7 minutes earlier)*
xx:30	Noran starts
xx:00	Saidra starts
xx:45	Loamhurst starts
xx:30	Sage spawned
xx:30	Noran starts

*plus it wasn't within the meta, but technically happened after the "Attack imminent" message.. Noran's technically starts around 00:28 sometimes.. so not sure anymore. (edited to add more data) --Caeldom (talk) 15:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Super interesting, so to rephrase: Lake Doric has three constantly rotating meta events with no downtime in between. Hence, a spawning High Sage will always either be a "Saidra Sage", a "Loamhurst Sage" or a "Noran Sage". Moreover, there is no Sage every meta, instead the map instance alternates between a "Sageless meta" and a "Sageful (?) meta". Your hypothesis here is then that while the Sage spawn times taken together look randomly distributed, we are wrongly throwing them in one pool. Instead, each of the Sages has its own spawn times, which are yet to be determined - is that a correct representation? Not gonna lie, it does sound exciting!! --BelleroPhone (talk) 12:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)