Category talk:Templates/Archive 1

Because they are a mess

I would like to open a real discussion on templates. It has been stated that there are a lot of templates that are not required and/or not helpful for documenting the game. I agree. These templates should get a new home (in light of the category reorganization). Feel free to discuss templates here. I want to view every template catgory on its own as we judge whether it improves the wiki's purpose (and which ones) or not:

Break down

[−] Templates
 Template:Lookup
 Template:My
 Template:My/local defs
 Template:My/my defs

Personally I have no idea what these templates are/would be about, but they aren't actually used on the wiki. Someone elaborate on their concise purpose? - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Mtew experiments/projects. Redundant by definition. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

When the time comes that the templates are being recategorized, would it be fine to slap deletion on these? I haven't actually seen Mtew is a loooong time. (Moving them into his user space under the names Template_Lookup might be a more user friendly option.) - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, deletion is okay, as those templates never got finished (I guess) and don't serve any purpose. poke | talk 19:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Archival templates (4)
 Template:Archive-box
 Template:Archived
 Template:Archive box collapsible
 Template:Suspended policy proposal

Template:Archive box collapsible is not being used anywhere and quite frankly, it's a cosmetic template. This would require a new location. The rest is widely used, they should stay in main space and be categorized into the new tree. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

They should stay in main template space*. I am planning to categorize templates in two major categories; one being main space templates, which are used directly on the main space; another being other use templates (name pending badly), which are used on user space, user file space, etc (probably with those subcategories in there). - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Disambiguation templates (2)
 Template:Disambig
 Template:Otheruses

These are widely used in main space and will be moved into the new tree. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

[−] Formatting templates (22)
 [-] Infobox templates (6)
  Template:Armor infobox
  Template:Skill infobox
  User:Mtew/Sandbox/templates/Skill infobox
  Template:NPC infobox
  Template:User infobox
  Template:Weapon infobox
 [-] Color templates (7)
  Template:Any-color
  Template:Color
  Template:E-color
  Template:G-color
  Template:N-color
  Template:R-color
  Template:W-color
 Template:!
 Template:Bullet
 Template:Clear
 Template:Guild Wars skill
 Template:Language
 Template:Pagelist
 Template:Pipe
 Template:Quotation
 Template:Quote
 Template:Quote2
 Template:Quote3
 Template:STDT
 Template:See
 Template:TOCright
 Template:3/4
 Template:Dye chart
 Template:Dye color
 Template:Section header
 Template:Skill tier
 Venom20/Template:Minibar

The first encounter with user space templates categorized in main space categories. Mtew's user space template is an inactive skill infobox proposal, which seems to have been abandoned. It should be categorized in user space categories in the upcoming reorganization. Venom's template, the concise variant of my own skill bar template should also be categorized in user space.

The User infobox needs either a massive upgrade/revision or needs to be moved into user space or deleted.

The color templates need massive updating as well, and currently the colours for such updates are being decided on.

The 3/4 template is very nice, but it requires expanding to 1/4 and 1/2 as well.

Section header is not used in main space, I propose moving it into user space. (Or deleting it and editing the 2 user space pages it is used.

That would be my course of action. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I would suggest not touching the color and skill related templates for a while. It is unknown if we can use them the way there are (might be even unlikely), but we can base new templates on them. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Will carefully investigate the use per template and move the vital ones along, whilst keeping the rest in a "sort this out still" category." - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Image templates (14)
 [−] Profession icon templates (5)
  Template:E
  Template:N
  Template:Profession icon sizes
  Template:R
  Template:W
 [−] Flag templates (14)
  Template:Australia
  Template:Brazil
  Template:Canada
  Template:China
  Template:Czech Republic
  Template:Germany
  Template:Malaysia
  Template:Netherlands
  Template:New Zealand
  Template:Russia
  Template:Sweden
  Template:UK
  Template:USA
  Template:Belgium
 [−] Icon templates (2)
  Template:Experience
  Template:Karma
 Template:Bronze
 Template:Cookie
 Template:Gold
 Template:Heart
 Template:Navimg
 Template:No
 Template:Nowub
 Template:Profession icon sizes
 Template:Silver
 Template:Wub
 Template:Yes

Profession icons are not GW2-oriented at all, they should go or we need to find new tangos. I don't know who made them before, but I would base them on the Character Creation profession icons.

The templates not sorted in sub-categories need sorting. Icon sizes is already sorted, let's not double sort. Navimg is the only template that doesn't fit in any sub-categories and can be permitted to stay. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Profession icons need to go completely. GW1 related things should not remain in a template namespace polluting way (i.e. {{W}} should be reserved to the new "W"-pofession); might be good to introduce a legacy/GW1 template category and put GW1-related things in there, including a different naming rule, to make them distinct from the actual new content. Apart from that, I think that category tree is actually quite okay. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

[−] License templates (9)
 Template:ArenaNet image
 Template:Arenanet article
 Template:GW1 image
 Template:Public domain image
 Template:Screenshot
 Template:GFDL image
 Template:Trailer image
 Template:Website image
 Template:User image

All of these are to remain in main space, correct? - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

What exactly is "main space"? They need to be within the Template namespace, and they should stay in some kind of category. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for the lack of elaboration; as per above: "I am planning to categorize templates in two major categories; one being main space templates, which are used directly on the main space; another being other use templates (name pending badly), which are used on user space, user file space, etc (probably with those subcategories in there)." With main space I appoint the templates used on main space, where they are vital. - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

While that makes sense, I would object creating two separate category trees for it. Many templates (that do not belong to that "main space" definition) are still rather important to the wiki (nearly all maintenance related ones for example) and should not be buried to deep inside the tree. In the same way, main space templates shouldn't be put too deep either. I think having a good number of top level template categories that have good names is the most appropriate way to handle this. poke | talk 19:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Main page templates (1)
 Template:News

Can totally go. </sarcasm> Will be sorted along into main space categories, don't worry. :P - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, Main Page/News is a more appropriate way to have Main Page related content templates (works on GWW too). poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

[−] Maintenance templates (14)
 [−] Deletion templates (2)
  Template:Copyvio
  Template:Delete
 [−] Redirect templates (13)
  Template:Abbreviation
  Template:Capitalization
  Template:Common misspelling
  Template:Common name
  Template:Fansite redirect
  Template:General term
  Template:Grammar derivation
  Template:Icon
  Template:Omitted punctuation
  Template:Plural term
  Template:Short name
  Template:Shortcut
  Template:Variant spelling
 [−] Stub templates (5)
  Template:Lore-stub
  Template:Section-stub
  Template:Stub
  Template:Anet-stub
  Template:Under Construction
 Template:Cleanup
 Template:Ifexists
 Template:Merge
 Template:Move
 Template:Not orphaned
 Template:Rewrite
 Template:Split
 Template:List entry
 Template:Unsigned ip
 Template:Unsigned2
 Template:Verify

Redirect templates are being simplified altogether.

Stub templates are fine, save Under Construction. That template is only used in user space and should be moved there.

Ifexists is only used in user space, though it *might* prove useful in main space in a way. Other than that I would move it to user space until it's used in main space. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that redirect templates should be unified (Actually I think those can go completely, as all they effectively do is categorize a redirect, which can be done manually as well; the template's content is not visible on redirect pages). Ifexists is an important technical template that is to be used on things like {{tl}}. Seems that exactly that template wasn't copied over from GWW correctly then. I generally disagree with "move to user space until used in main space", that will just make things messy and possibly lead to duplications when people import other templates from GWW that are using templates that were moved somewhere to user space (for no actual good reason).

See below for a comment regarding the maintenance templates tree in general. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"I am planning to categorize templates in two major categories; one being main space templates, which are used directly on the main space; another being other use templates (name pending badly), which are used on user space, user file space, etc (probably with those subcategories in there)." - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Navigation templates (33)
 Template:Attributes nav
 Template:Books nav
 Template:Category index
 Template:City nav
 Template:Dragon nav
 Template:Dungeons nav
 Template:Effects nav
 Template:Folder tab
 Template talk:Folder tab/DOC
 Template:Folder tab/break
 Template:Folder tab/end
 Template:Folder tab/label
 Template:Folder tab/separator
 Template:Folder tab/start
 Template:Friends nav
 Template:GW2W navbar header
 Template:God nav
 Template:Gww
 Template:Help navbar header
 Template:HoM rewards nav
 Template:Locations nav
 Template:NavBox
 Template:Navimg
 Template:Orders nav
 Template:Pet nav
 Template:Playable races nav
 Template:Professions nav
 Template:Skill lists nav
 Template:Trailer nav
 Template:Trait lists nav
 Template:Voice actor nav
 Template:Weapons nav
 Template:Wikipedia

Folder and its sub-templates are to be moved to user space, they are not useful to documentation in main space.

Friends nav is a user space nav, move.

Navimg should remain in only image templates, as proposed above.

The wiki-mechinical templates are going to be seperated from game-mechanical templates, but both are sorted into main space. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't move templates to user namespace, that will mess things up and lead to duplication when people want to use that actually rather universal template. It's a user template, yes, so categorize it like that. Same with friends nav, and all other templates that are likely to be used by more than a single user. And navimg is actually redundant by the wiki parser. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"I am planning to categorize templates in two major categories; one being main space templates, which are used directly on the main space; another being other use templates (name pending badly), which are used on user space, user file space, etc (probably with those subcategories in there)." - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Organization templates (8)
 [−] Notice templates (22)
  Template:Arenanet article
  Template:Cleanup
  User:Infinite/Sandbox/Demo template
  Template:Disambig
  Template:Disputed
  Template:Historical content
  Template:Manual article
  Template:Moved
  Template:Notice
  Template:Otheruses
  Template:Please do not remove this line
  Template:Rewrite
  Template:Sandbox
  Template:Shortcut box
  Template:Sic
  Template:Spoiler
  Template:Spoilers
  Template:Citation needed
  Template:Official source
  Template:Unsigned
  Template:Unimplemented content
  Template:Warning
 Template:Diffwith
 Template:Ec
 Template:Extension DPL
 Template:Purge
 Template:Ri
 Template:Tl
 Template:User

Unsigned needs to be moved into the Maintenance category or those two unsigned into here. I propose the former.

DPL needs to be upgraded to properly display specifics as they are meant to be listed. Or be reduced in its use in main space and moved if possible. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

One general thing about organization and maintenance templates; I believe it was me who "invented" a distinction like that. I see both categories as very related with the difference that maintenance templates are meant to be temporary (i.e. deletion, cleanup), while organization templates are supposed to be permanent. If possible, I would like to keep that separation.

As such, unsigned templates are maintenance templates. The DPL template is technically required, but can easily be "hidden" somewhere deep in some category.

Formatting templates shouldn't be a subcategory of organization though, and some of the formatting category are more organizational to be in that one instead (like unsigned, notice etc.; in general all non-content related). poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

When the time comes, it would be great if we had your assitence in the reorganization of the templates, to make sure we're doing things in a proper way. - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing, I think I have some excel sheet somewhere around from when I was planning to completely rehaul all GWW templates (I did about the half I believe), maybe I can get back some of my old ideas on this as well :) poke | talk 19:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Skill templates (3)
 Template:Skill animation
 Template:Skill icon
 Template:Trait icon

Will be moved into main space templates. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

The more I read it the more I get confused about this "main space templates" thing. Templates are supposed to stay in the template namespace; and templates should be categorized well. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

"I am planning to categorize templates in two major categories; one being main space templates, which are used directly on the main space; another being other use templates (name pending badly), which are used on user space, user file space, etc (probably with those subcategories in there)." - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Template documentation (12)
 Template talk:Folder tab
 Template:Folder tab/DOC
 Template talk:Folder tab/break
 Template talk:Folder tab/end
 Template talk:Folder tab/label
 Template talk:Folder tab/separator
 Template talk:Folder tab/start
 Template:Archive-box
 Template:Archive-box/manual
 Template:Color/DOC
 Template:Progress bar/doc
 Template:X-color/manual

Folder is moving to main space as per above.

Documentational templates are useless, this can be placed under the templates themselves or in extreme cases, the talk page of the template.

Color templates need to be rewritten accordingly and moved into one collective location, as proposed above.

In essence this entire category is useless and can/should be substituted. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

All those "templates" are not templates and should be integrated into their actual templates instead. Except for the color one, there is no reason to have templated template descriptions. It just adds a layer of complexity when changing the templates. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Will be integrated in the nearby future. - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Templates/Babel (9)
 Template:Babel
 Template:Babel/0
 Template:Babel/1
 Template:Babel/2
 Template:Babel/3
 Template:Babel/4
 Template:Babel/Box
 Template:Babel/N
 Template:BabelMsg

Everything made sense, 'till I realized there is a 0 in there. Who would explain they have no ability in a specific language and what would this add? Also, should be Wiki-only template. It's not game-oriented. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Babel templates are user templates and should be categorized as such. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

[−] User templates (11)
 [-] Userbox templates (88)
  [−] Operating System user box templates (1)
   Template:User Windows
  [−] Users who favor guardians (5)
   User:AdventurerPotatoe
   User:AdventurerPotatoe/Template:Userboxes
   User:Chanw4
   User:Chanw4/userboxes
   User:IcyyyBlue/Amanda Angelkiss
  Template:Userbox
  Template:User infobox userbox
  Template:User Age
  Template:User Am
  Template:User Assassin
  Template:User Asura
  Template:User Asura2
  Template:User Asura College of Statics
  Template:User awesome
  Template:User BearSpirit
  Template:User Campaign EotN
  Template:User Campaign EoTN
  Template:User Campaign Factions 
  Template:User Campaign Nightfall
  Template:User Campaign Prophecies
  Template:User Char Stories
  Template:User charr 
  Template:User Charr
  Template:User China
  Template:Council of Twilight
  Template:User Dervish
  Template:User Elementalist
  User:Infinite/Templates/User Elementalist
  Template:User Eu
  Template:User evil
  Template:User Fan Fiction
  Template:User favorite skill
  Template:User Female
  Template:Findlay Graduate
  Template:User Firefox
  Template:User GFDL
  Template:User CC
  Guild Wars 2 Wiki:Helpers/Userbox
  User:Silverleaf/Template:GWAA
  Template:User GWW
  Template:User Guardian
  User:Infinite/Templates/User Guardian
  Template:User Gunslinger
  Template:User Hasuserboxes
  Template:User Hates Copyright
  Template:User Hatsune Miku Fan
  Template:User Human
  Template:User Human2
  User:Infinite/Templates/Userbox style
  Template:User Male
  Template:Mature Gamer
  Template:User Mesmer
  Template:User Monk
  User:DrogoBoffin/Templates
  Template:User Necromancer
  User:Infinite/Templates/User Necromancer
  Template:User Norn
  Template:User Norn2
  Template:User OriginalGW
  Template:User Paragon
  Template:User PvE
  Template:User PvP
  Template:User PvX
  Template:User Ranger
  User:Infinite/Templates/User Ranger
  Template:User RavenSpirit
  Template:User Ritualist
  Template:User Sylvari
  Template:User Sylvari2
  Template:User Sylvari Autumn
  Template:User Sylvari Spring
  Template:User Sylvari Winter
  Template:User Br
  Template:User Evil
  Template:User GOA
  Template:User Gw2complete 
  Template:User HOMitems 
  Template:User Human Canthan
  Template:User Likes Cats
  Template:User Lyssa
  Template:User Owns Cat
  Template:User Ramei Arashi/Templates/HOM
  Template:User GW2buy
  Template:User age
  User:ZerusDabliu/Template:Userboxes
  Template:User Warrior
  User:Infinite/Templates/User Warrior
  Template:User WolfSpirit
  Template:User guardian
  Template:User guardian2
  Template:User third adventurer
 Template:Friends nav
 Template:Gw2Points
 Template:User Balthazad Navbar 2
 Template:User Neil2250 The Roof Runners Talk Page
 Template:User forgreatsource Colour 2
 Template:User forgreatsource colour 1
 Template:User forgreatsource colour 3
 User:Infinite/Template:Skills
 User:Neil/Question
 User:Y0 ich halt/Templates

Category_talk:Userbox templates. Should userbox templates be terminated? Or just sorted and partially terminated? See that page to discuss it. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

User box templates are fine, as long as the templates are actually used. Every template that could see a possible use for more than a single user, should have its right to stay in the template namespace. Templates within the User namespace should not be categorized, and categories listing users shouldn't appear there at all. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

We'll have to sort out all templates, especially these and determine what and how we take action. Also, the reorganization will take care of bad category sortings. - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Aside with recategorization we maybe should think of some naming guideline for those templates, to prevent them from being highly repetitive; maybe we need to introduce some design-related parameter to make sure that people can still choose their favorite design. poke | talk 19:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

[−] Utility templates (4)
 Template:Progress bar
 Template:Th
 Template:Time
 Template:Timezone

Should also be sorted, or a lot of templates end up here, it's semi-redundant in its use. - Infinite - talk 21:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Are all formatting templates. poke | talk 22:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Response

I like this. On a side note: how long did it take you to sort all this appropriately and at such an in-depth level? Would've taken me a week to get it ready to even propose an idea remotely similar to this. :O - Lucian 5:34, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Not a very long time; composing the opening of this major discussion took me roughly 40 minutes. Feel free to respond with your optics for each section, or just the sections where you see fit. :) - Infinite - talk 09:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

IMO, delete everything that could possibly be deleted, and leave only:

• Templates
  • Formatting templates
    • Infobox templates (NPC infobox, skills infobox, and so on)
    • Color templates (once we settle on a color scheme)
  • Image templates
    • Flag templates
      • Flag images
    • Icon templates (for icons in the mainspace, not userspace stuff)
  • License templates
  • Maintenance templates (borrowing the name from the main GW2 Wiki category)
    • Archival templates
    • Disambiguation templates
    • Modification templates (deletion templates, stub templates, rewrite templates and so on)
  • Navigation templates (exclusively for the navigation templates we all love so much)
  • User templates (for the records, everything Mew did that couldn't be deleted would be moved here)
    • Userbox templates

And nothing more. Erasculio 21:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Erasculio, seems simple and rather straight forward. - Lucian 4:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

We should continue this discussion on the projects page assigned to category reorganization and equally have a good sorting out of the templates (where used, what use they have, dupes, etc). - Infinite - talk 18:30, 24 February 2011 (UTC)