User talk:A F K When Needed/Monk

To be honest, as a Chinese, I hate to see how Blizzard connects pandas with medieval Chinese settings... it's so ridiculous and weird to see. Maybe they just watched too much Kunfu Panda.
While actually, what they did in Diablo 3 is acceptable. Pandarens sound like grawls or dredges. Glastium | talk 05:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, they started as Blizzard's April Fools' joke. Mediggo 07:53, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

No they did not. A F K When Needed 19:01, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh yes they did. -- Cyan 19:28, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

AFK: WC3, long before your time... Back when Warcraft games were actually still good. Was already declining, WC2 was the best of them all, but still :D --El_Nazgir 20:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

WC2 was the best of them all? Two words for you: DotA. Mediggo 07:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

1)that was a mod map, not the actual game. I meant the game itself, not any kind of mod made for/with it. 2) dota is boring. --El_Nazgir 14:37, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

El_Nazgir: I see your link to the wiki abandoned by Blizzard Entertainment, and I raise you a link to a fork of that wiki. Which Blizzard both recognise, and link to from their own website.

The chips are mine. A F K When Needed 23:15, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Erm, just because one wiki doesn't mention it doesn't change the blizzard podcast... It was used as an april's fool initially. Check the first blizzard podcast, starts around 5 minutes. --El_Nazgir 08:02, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and Mediggo, Dota was based on the starcraft 1 Aeon of Strife map :P --El_Nazgir 13:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

You're arguing about when the majority of people first heard of them. It's open to interpretation, I'll grant you. If Samwise began creating them for the purpose of an april fool's joke, I'd agree. He didn't, so I don't. You should know me well enough to know I always attach great importance to the intention; often more so than the result.

I read what Mediggo said more literally than you did. I am arguing how they started - to which I quote "Samwise Didier originally created the pandaren race in his own art. It all started with a picture done for Christmas after the birth of his daughter." A F K When Needed 20:03, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

So I heard

That faction-neutral, multi-role (tank/DPS/heal) melee cloth wearers without autoattack were more balanced than mesmers. Mediggo 08:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think "balance" even remotely applies to the mesmer. - Infinite - talk 09:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Really? I think mesmer nowadays is on the same line with imbagons, necromancers and ritualists. Mediggo 12:37, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

"Imba"gons, *and*. Need I say more? But seriously, the most overpowered profession in the original Guild Wars is by *far* the mesmer. With 3 mesmer heroes, you can drop all defense and support and only need minor healing. The imbagon is just outdated, really. Necros are just balanced in terms of their attributes, but there's too much secondary exploiting, due to limitless energy. Mesmer have endless energy, pro-active defense, support, extreme armor-ignoring AoE damage and more with only 3 skills per bar. It requires a nerf, and quite a massive one at that.

But obviously not prior to a ranger, non-imbagon paragon and monk redesign. Those are even more pressing. - Infinite - talk 13:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I think necromancers and ritualists also have endless energy, pro-active defense, support, armor-ignoring damage with correct setup. Necro is still better than mesmer when it comes to Barbs+MoP damage support or minion mastery defense (or both at same time). And SoS+Ghostly Might ritualists are pretty powerful when it comes to damage, and oft have very strong Rt energy management. Both professions can also provide additional allies, something which mesmer still (fortunately) can't do, and that is most powerful tool in PvE if you ask me. I'm not saying any of those make mesmer unwanted or anything like that, but I think full party of mesmers would be pretty unefficient. You can still do that with primary necros. But yeah, I agree on redesign need. Hopefully we'll still see some improvement to the game before GW2.

Anyway, I think monk in WoW is, while more like a traditional RPG monk class, which is very nice, kinda weird and possibly very game-changing. I hear my friends whine about Druids and Death Knight (pre-Cataclysm) quite a lot, so I can just imagine what another multi-role class will do to the game. Did you know they're removing talent points and adding Pokemon battles to WoW? Mediggo 07:35, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, I was moreso thinking along the lines of Panic (shuts down a ball on its own), Mistrust (massive AoE armor-ignoring damage), Arcane Conundrum (extends activation times on a group, getting a bit of energy back per foe hexed when it ends (easily filling up your energy bar to the max)), the various (AoE) Clumsiness skills (physicals/wanders can't do anything) and Ineptitude (physicals/wanding can do even less). Also don't forget Fast Casting's effect, especially in PvE; you can literally spam anything with no worries of energy problems or interrupts. Whilst the necro can weaken a ball and dish out respectable damage, and the rit can set up turrets and defenses on the go, neither of them can do what a mesmer can. Remember Discordway? Well, Mistrust is basically an AoE Discord, without the condition + hex conditional, but with a must-cast-offense-oriented-spell conditional, whereas Ineptitude/the Clumsiness skills are triggered on attacks. Remember <insert other set-up>? Most of that can be replaced by 2 mesmers with 5 skills each. Neither necro or rit can shut down everything and ruin their day. Playing with 8 mesmers is probably one of the strongest set-ups currently in the game, mainly because they can maintain every detrimental effect on every possible mob. The other strongest monoprofession set-up is 8 paragons, which is even crazier. Neither of them really needs to worry about heals, where 8 paragons often use two copies of "Save Yourselves!" and because the mesmer group can do without it, I'd say it's superior to the 8 paragons set-up.

I am in no way a mesmer fanboy, I just had to face the facts here. If the mesmer is not yet in ridiculously-OP lane for some people, they should really take another look at the last mesmer update. :P - Infinite - talk 08:07, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

You can't spike with mistrust as you can with discord. 5-6 discords on almost any PvE mob (1 casting cycle if you have multiple people/merc heroes, 2 if you only have heroes) and it's dead, but 5-6 casts of mistrust on something in 1 or 2 cycles still only does damage once or twice. I love having a mesmer hero with me, but never more than 2 or they start getting redundant. So far the only monoprofession teams I've seen were necro, and they were pretty effective. Mesmer can't keep up the huge amounts of meatshields, and thus if a HM mob even touches you you're dead. Paragon, I also have my doubts about. I understand the theory, I'm just not convinced it'd be as effective as it appears.

All in all, I think not a single monoprofession team can outclass a well balanced one, unless it's specifically built for a certain area or type of mob you face a lot there or something. Let the necros spike with discord and raise minions. Let the monk heal and res, let the mesmer disrupt and do AoE dmg, let the rits summon tons of defence and offence, and (because I almost always play derv), let the melee tank a bit and do damage. Against a pure mesmer team, the rits could win almost single handedly, because spirits aren't spells, and almost all mesmer spells need a trigger of a spell or attack of some sort. Sure, the others would be shut down, but what little assistance they give will be enough if you ask me. Sure, the monoprofession teams will excel in some places, but will be total failure in others, while my set up there is pretty good everywhere.--El_Nazgir 14:37, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

If you're still spiking in PvE, you're not playing Guild Wars efficiently, though. Prior to the mesmer update, spiking far outclassed anything else. Now it's nuke-all-the-way to win, it just is so much faster. Mesmers don't require the meatshields; they shut down every single mob (the ball, and the stragglers) and they maintain this practise. Don't forget secondaries, either. - Infinite - talk 14:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I admit I haven't been playing a lot lately, and I haven't been keeping up with the metagame at all, but I've seen some builds thrown around the alliance and still found mine better in general. And as a dervish I more or less nuke too with splinter weapon, eremites and pious assault (fuelled by Mystic Renewal), so I still got a mix of nuking (me as derv, my mesmer and some rit skills too) and spiking (spirits and necro's).--El_Nazgir 15:05, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I bet! Most people use PvX as if it was their Bible. Half-arsed meta doesn't mean it's most efficient. ;] - Infinite - talk 15:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Depends on what you're judging. Their time spent copying from PvX in 20 seconds is more efficient than spending perhaps hours throwing together some Mesmer / Ranger buid. :P

No, I'm not stupid. I got your point, I was just trolling my own tal- ... knvm. :P A F K When Needed 23:15, 31 October 2011 (UTC)