Talk:Riannoc

I am wondering if this was the Silvari, the only one, that journeyed to Orr. That could be how he died, and perhaps that's how the Nightmare came to infect the Dream. Perhaps when he journeyed to Orr the dragon's influence corrupted his mind and with him being a firstborn, his link was still relatively strong with the Tree and other Silvari, and thus the corruption spread. Just an idea I came up with just now as I was browsing Silvari lore Nay the One and Only 00:21, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Retcon?

Judging from the new dialogue in the first instance from Seeds of Truth (paraphrased): "Three of the newly awoken have died already", and "I am worried about Riannoc going out alone", it seems that Riannoc being the first to die is not quite the truth anymore? Serbaayuu (talk) 22:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

More likely that the writers flubbed up since it's a minor line and let's be honest, they've been making a lot of similar mistakes. They no longer have their pro continuity designers (Jeff and Ree) it seems. Or at least they aren't working on S2. Konig 00:10, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Hum, nothing in the dialogue indicates that Riannoc is not already dead, but that the other sylvaris are not aware of it. He's not here while it's a very important meeting after all. --Gwethelyn (talk) 01:31, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

At first glance, yeah, you can argue that. However:

• "We all felt it when he died. It was like a part of the Dream was torn away--but we never knew why. Or how."
• "When he died--the sun dimmed, and the Dream wept."
• "They gathered by the Pale Tree, and rain swelled upon her upturned leaves, dripping in slow sparks to the earth below. Her roots cradled the firstborn that lay among them, his body covered in a dark blanket like moss over a grave. Malomedies was only sleeping, struggling against exhausting nightmares. From time to time, he called out, and Kahedins soothed him, placing a damp compress to his forehead in the hope that he would find rest. The healer looked up to the others, face filled with worry.

“Will he survive? Or will he…die? As Riannoc did?” The question whispered in every heart, but it was Niamh that gave it voice. "

First two come from Caithe and Pale Tree respectively in both Bramble Walls and Sharpened Thorns - they both mention that Riannoc's death greatly affected the Dream, and Caithe mentions that every sylvari felt his death, knowing he died, but not why or how; the third is from Dream and Nightmare#The Dream of Dreams, an old blog post and the first real bit of non-interview sylvari lore we got (it should be as canonical as any short story they put on the web, as well as the novels), is when Malomedies returns from being experimented on by sylvari (an event mentioned in The Newly Awakened), during said event they mention Riannoc being dead.

So yeah, major lore flub there. Konig 08:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit: To clarify, if there's a retcon, it'd be of those three statements more than Riannoc dying first. But in all honesty, this is too obvious a contradiction that it is most likely a mess up. But given how they arbitrarily retconned the age of the Secondborn from 6-7 years after the Firstborn to 2 years after the Firstborn ('without knowing' as Angel put it, despite it being up on the wiki, despite being 3 clicks from checking sources for the statement by Ree Soesbee from the Secondborn page) just to fit Scarlet's own completely messed up timeline (not that it fixed anything)... I honestly wouldn't put it past them to make this massive-yet-minorly-stated retcon. In all honesty, at this point I'd say it's right up their alley to mess up their own lore. Konig 08:53, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

It can also be explained by the attitudes of the firstborn: they are prone to hyperbole and often paternalistic towards or dismissive of the secondborn, even though they are only a few years older (two or six, depending on whether you believe Ree or Ms Soesbee). The lines quoted by Konig above might be the same sort of thing people on Earth say when someone beloved of the community dies, e.g. "when MLK died, the sun shone less brightly over America;" this fits particularly well considering Riannoc was, at minimum, the first of the original dozen to die. And similarly, on Earth, there are cases of history books citing a particular white man as the first to do something, when the truth was the first was a woman or a person of color. In other words, Riannoc's death might have been the first death that "really" mattered to some or all of the firstborn.

Of course, it's much more likely that Konig is correct that this was sloppy copyediting. My point is simply that it could be consistent with pre-LS canon. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 10:15, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Nice subtle hint that you don't believe McCoy. :P

But anyways, it was also said in an interview that all sylvari felt Riannoc's death, iirc, I didn't include such because Angel and Bobby recently basically said "fuck all interviews, we go by what's in-game" - so I provided only in-game lines.

On an aside, I'd like to note that the OP here was very mistaken in his paraphrasing. All that's said is that Riannoc has been gone for a long time, and Malomedies fears for his safety given that three Secondborn had died already. Nothing hints or implies Riannoc lives. The continuity error is not in order of death, but in when sylvari found out of Riannoc's death. Konig 22:08, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Retcon take two: it may be possible now that Caithe could have killed Wynne before Riannoc died, now? At least this is something worth asking devs about the next time they do a QA. ---- ᴥ GreyGhost (talk!) ᴥ 19:41, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Late but: Bobby Stein said that QA missed this line in E7 about Riannoc and that they'd fix it. Dunno if it has been, but it's still that Riannoc died first. Konig 23:33, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Relevant update by Angel McCoy --zeeZ (talk) 06:16, 21 January 2015 (UTC)