User talk:Astronomy/2011

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Holy $#*!, what a welcome![edit]

Late but welcome to the Guild Wars 2 Wiki :D just yell if you need any help! :) --you like that don't you..The Holy Dragons 18:28, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks mate, not only for the welcome but also for removing that nasty red link! — astronomy User Astronomy.png 18:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
haha no biggy! (P.S. if you don't like red links (write something on your user page)) ^^ --you like that don't you..The Holy Dragons 21:23, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Hah! That I will do. Once I know what to write, that is... — astronomy User Astronomy.png 21:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

A helpful helper[edit]

You seem to become unhappy with any amount of content you conjure on your userpage? May I ask what your issue is? I'm just genuinely curious, if not slightly concerned. I rather liked where and what you were doing with the three characters you had at one point. And I also hope you are keeping whatever story or info about your characters in an outside text editor, so you can come back to them? I'm not trying to tell you how to do things, or push you to recreate your page--I just want to be helpful.

I've yet to publish anything of my characters, but I've kept it in a text editor. Almost every day, or whenever I have spare time, I open it and look for some place or some thing I can tinker with or add details. In the beginning, I didn't worry about conforming to GW2's character creation fluff. (Like Warrior's helmet choice, etc.) Now, I have around 120 lines devoted to describing story details and character attributes of 8 characters. (Its a start.) Most importantly, I gave each of them qualities. My Sylvari Elementalist, for example, dreamt of Riannoc's death, and thus is terrified of dying. This character now has something that drives him: He is afraid of death, and will do anything to avoid it. However, if you recall, Sylvari can be empathic towards others. And who does not fear death? It is a triple threat. (Or, you know, what have you.) If you would like, I can blabber more, but I have to go to work now. Good luck! --Quiesce 14:17, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Discontent, I guess, would be the proper term of my affliction and even though I have tried to force myself into a state of satisfaction, I have yet to succeed. One could say I need variation, which I do, yet most of the times I push the edit button, it is because I have found flaws or perhaps I have imagined a new and hopefully better design.
About the characters: I am keeping the three which I have created. The quotes are, so far, the only thing I have written down on them, but they act as guidelines on their ways of thinking and ambitions. Furthermore, I do have a larger storyline, kept safely in the walls of my head, but your advice might have pushed me to write it down on paper. And whenever you publish your characters, I will be sure to read them thoroughly and with great interest!
To wrap this up: Your help and advice are massively appreciated, and feel free to toss them my way when you wish. Thank you. And please, blabber on as you see fit. I enjoy it. And thank you again. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 15:38, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Blabber on, I shall. Although you may have heard this before: give your characters flaws. This goes hand-in-hand with assigning qualities. You might even call these "qualities" and "drawbacks" if you will. Qualities are generally positive--whereas drawbacks are, well, duh. Everyone has flaws, undesirable attributes, weaknesses--its what makes us interesting and allows others to relate to us.
Like I mentioned above, I gave my Sylvari Elementalist the drawback of thanatophobia, the fear of death and dying. Originally, I had this drawback on another character, my human male mesmer. However, when it came down to assigning drawbacks to my characters, my Sylvari Ele didn't really have any. So, I simply reassigned--and it was a great success! (This is where having your ideas down in a text editor shines. Cut/paste works wonders.)
Don't be afraid to go outside the box. I shall reveal another of my characters for this example: a Charr Guardian named Grimoilt Soulmender. When he was but a cub among the Fahrar, he accidentally caused the death of a female Charr clan-mate--whom then literally haunts him. This evolves into "Grim," as she likes to call him, conversing with her--all the while trying to keep up the attitude of seriousness within his unit. On a comical note, I figured it would be cute if the spirit would assume possession of his spirit weapon, making cute/strange faces as the hammer ultimately wallops his foes. (Perhaps also mewing odd sounds upon impact, that of course only ol' Grim can percieve.)
Grimoilt's possessed spirit weapon is both a quality and a drawback. How? Other Charr avoid him. He hates his spirit companion, for haunting him, for existing, for what it has done to him. However, it fulfills his need, his desire, for a true companion--and thus is one of his only comforts in life. At any rate, I can spew out more examples and stuff should you want. :) --Quiesce 00:50, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
You have given me much to ponder over mate. I tried to create both good aspects and bad, such as my sylvari engineer who has become insecure as of how to act because of a dangerously increasing amount of nightmares that dwell within his mind. He stands on the edge between Ventari’s teachings and the Nightmare Court, and thus seeks a higher power to guide him to what is right and what is wrong. Though now that I have read your advice, I might just rewrite most of my material, including the other two characters that I have.
I like the way your characters are coming together. Your skills in writing seem to be a level above the others which I have read, and your character stories are most intriguing and quite advanced. I would love it if you were to reveal more about them, but only if you truly want to. I would hate myself if I forced you to divulge something you would rather keep for yourself at the present moment.
Once again, I thank you. You are indeed a most helpful helper. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 09:40, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
You give me too much credit. I wouldn't call myself a writer. I've only learned what little I'm passing on to you from various sites scattered across the web and a few seminars of writers giving tips on this and that. I have a whole bookmark folder full of links! Like this one. (I haven't read all of these, and if you look to the "related titles" section on the right you'll see there is more to read.) However, one of the most significant sources I've come across yet is this. I don't know if you would find it as helpful or interesting--but it is quick to point out that your characters also need goals, among the other things I have already mentioned.
Whenever I ask myself what my goal is in life--well... I would like to draw, and draw better. Perhaps, even someday, illustrate card art for Magic: the Gathering. I'm nowhere near good enough at the moment. I'm lazy and I barely draw once every few weeks, at best. And that's when I have time. But see, I do have a goal. And then there's my drawbacks looming over it, and thus, conflict. (Although not very compelling, I admit.) Not every character needs to seek their goal so eagerly. They can be short-term or long-term goals.
On topic of seminars... At GenCon in Indianapolis this year, I attended a seminar called "Why your story needs an invisible orangutan." It was basically about how otherwise insignificant characters, much like Grimoilt's Spiritual Companion example I gave above, can help your story. Whether your idea of it is a talking fish, an Asuran golem with a fondness for cats, a sentient weapon, or what have you. (Feel free to use any of those examples, by the way. (Not that they're great.)) Though, I have to say, not every story requires such a character--yours may not. The key is to make it believable. What if I were to offer--that Grimoilt's Spirit friend wasn't a spirit at all. What if he were hallucinating it all? Certainly, the trauma of causing the death of another could do that. That, I leave up to the reader's perception. --Quiesce 13:05, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Indeed, it never hurts if your character is a bit obsessed or affected by something in a negative way. Makes them much more realistic. But you needn't make the faults too obvious either, like "her parents died and it has left her with severe trauma and inability to form social relationships" (well, that's little too emo to make a good example but there it is). IMHO, stereotypical qualities and drawbacks aren't quite enough either (that's what I think about sylvari having nightmares, they all have them). They should be mentioned, but not exaggerated in a manner such as one human character's unwavering faith in their gods which gives him guidance and strength to carry on. Every character is a person driven by their own motives, and a writer should keep that in mind. If you give your character an interesting motive it should rise questions and debate among readers. Even if the motives your hero or main character types aren't the best, they can still be good characters. People are ignorant and self-centered, so there's no problem in giving them such motives and desires. In other words, imperfect characters are perfect. Mediggo 13:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps I have given you too little credit. The last section, about "invisible orangutans", is brilliant, and your example with Grimoilt proves that. Great links by the way, I will definitely read them and try to learn from them as well. But just by reading this which you have written on my talk page gives me inspiration, and just now I came up with a “drawback” for my norn mesmer. Thank you.
I am just about to publish a rough sketch of my characters' story on my user page, and feel free to criticize and discuss it should you wish. Bear in mind though, it is very rough and perhaps quite cloudy. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 13:27, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
EDIT:I agree Mediggo, which is why I am scratching that part of my sylvari. And I like that sentence: Imperfect characters are perfect. I will keep that in mind next time I try to write. Thanks! — astronomy User Astronomy.png 13:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I absolutely love the scroll-down effect! As for the textual content, I had to re-read the first line several times. "Did I read that right? Space explorers?" You mean travelers on land, right? And what exactly is so 'valiant' about their quest? What could possibly be forcing them to travel across the three continents? You leave me with questions!
But, before you lift a finger to answer me--don't! It is a good thing that the reader has questions. That is what you want! It is what compels them to read more--to solve the puzzle, to experience your story. If you lay everything out for your reader, they become bored, as there is no mystery and nothing to compel them.--Quiesce 15:20, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Hah, I will clarify just a little then! Across various cinematics I have seen blimps and aircrafts, possibly built by either asura or charr. And as seen in both Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 astronomy mixed with astrology exist. Mix then an astronomer with a norn's heart, and what do you get? You get someone who wishes more than to just look upon the stars. Someone who literally wants to reach their vicinity and see them up close. But perhaps there are other reasons as to why he wants this? Is the technology available enough? And will he succeed? — astronomy User Astronomy.png 15:37, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Oooo! Shiny! I love it! I'm jealous I didn't think of it. :) Hmm. The Kodan, they also have a respect for the stars...--Quiesce 16:07, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I am glad you liked it, it's a keeper! And if you ever need a sounding board, I am here if you want to discuss something. I owe you that much. Though from what I have read of the above, you might not need one, hah. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 16:36, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I would like to impart upon you another helpful technique. You may have read of it: Interviewing your characters. After you have a good portion of their attributes fleshed out, but need something more, ask them questions, and have them answer. (It helps if you can answer in their voice, tones and inflection, to get into character.) I had read about it a while ago, and it was always something I recalled, but never utilized.

I must say it has helped me to fill in gaps and smooth out a majority of my characters. I've taken to doing this whenever I can and think to. If you must, bring a little notepad with you to help with remembering whatever you conjure.

I shall disclose an example of my own, where I simply asked "What is your name?" to a yet unrevealed character: (This isn't "as is." I doctored it up and added flavor and altered it from the original. (As you should.) But, I hope you get the idea?)

(In a chilling whisper.) By the Raven... I do not believe you consider the severity of such an otherwise mundane question. For were you aware of my name, child, those around us may brand you equally a betrayer and intend to wipe you away like filth. For your sake, I trust you will return from whence you came, bothering this old woman no more. (under her breath) Or darkness doom you.

— An unnamed Norn witch, interviewed in a gloomy corner of a quiet bar in Hoelbrak, by an unseemly scribe

From this, we gather that this older Norn woman is a betrayer among her people. You may wonder why? Hopefully, some inflection of character impressed upon you? (A chilling whisper, and calling others "child." Although she is untrusted, she is not uncaring to a complete stranger. She may even harbor the wish to redeem herself. Additionally, why does she suggest that the scribe leave? And what "doom" does she speak of? Is she the source, or could it be something else entirely?) We are again left with questions. --Quiesce 01:35, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

I have read of it, but perhaps with an underestimating eye seeing as how your interview caught my attention and has yet to let it go. It made me ask almost all of the questions which you so conventiently listed below, hah! While it is indeed an interesting method, I must admit that I have all too little character information on paper to utilize such a technique.
The truth is that I have begun to question what I am doing from a literature perspective, but simply by reading your guidance above and by trying to conjure a thoughtful reply to you I am managing to somehow apprehend my own intentions (which to me is an unfathomable feat!).
I would also like to apologize for my delayed answer. Things have been dark around here. And at last, and once again, thank you. I hope you are not growing tired of hearing that. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 13:32, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
I too, once asked myself "What am I doing writing all of this?" in reference to a whole new video game world I was dreaming up. I came to the conclusion that it was simply fun creating. (In fact, some of my GW2 character elements originated from what I had already imagined.) And why shouldn't I create? Exercises in imagination, creativity, and writing are never a bad thing to do. Even if none of your efforts come to fruition, you have not wasted your time. You learned new things, gained experience, and left possible artifacts for future revisits and reflections. (No matter the genre, characters can be plucked and placed wherever you want them.)
As long as you ask for help, I shall lend it. Or, if you ever grow tired of it, let me know, either way? --Quiesce 14:17, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Growing tired of your help? Never! Your advice has proven invaluable, if not only for fictional purposes but also everyday life. Almost every single line you have bestowed upon my mind has granted me motivation and inspiration, two emotions rarely found in my life nowadays.
Yet if you want to hear it, here it comes: please, help me. Whenever you feel like it. I am ridiculously grateful for everything. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 17:13, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Glad to hear it. Although, would you be inclined to help me, in turn? You see, as I keep my writing to myself, I have not shared anything with anyone but you. And I'm rather reluctant to, to be honest. Not for fear of story theft nonsense, but just a silly insecurity of quality. (Well, and my shyness and introversion.) (You seem to have your e-mail unavailable here, otherwise I would have asked more personally.) I figure, if you wanted, we could bounce our ideas around. However, if your plate is too full at the moment, with life and your writing, or simply wouldn't be up to it, feel free to say so. :) --Quiesce 00:00, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
I would be honored to help you, but I fail to see how. Yes, I am able to give my honest yet slightly flawed opinion, but I possess no peculiar techniques or tips in writing (besides the ones you have given me!). I have a passion for wordplays, in both English and my native tongue (Swedish) but I am still learning. Yet, if you want my help, I will try with my fullest dedication to do so. :) — astronomy User Astronomy.png 08:42, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
My email attempt to you failed? :( --Quiesce 23:26, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
It appears as if it did. If you haven't already, try this. :) — astronomy User Astronomy.png 05:41, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Will you help?[edit]

copied from User_talk:Quiesce#Will_you_help.3F

I have the basic character portraits in my head, yet I am unable to put it to paper. I was wondering if you would share how you organize your details (qualities, drawbacks, goals etc.) about you characters in your text editor because I cannot seem to figure it out? — astronomy User Astronomy.png 10:15, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I do it very simply. I use Notepad++ currently, and list these attributes on a line-by-line basis. However I have given thoughts to switching over to a spreadsheet program to begin sorting my story and character events in a timeline kind of thing. (You could use Windows Notepad/Wordpad, OpenOffice programs, whatever you are most comfortable with.)
There are many ways to go about it. And there is no "correct" way. As long as it suites you and gets the job done. I've also toyed with the idea of putting all of the content I have into an offline website, that I can interlink with hyperlinks and ease of navigation. I also have a small personal wiki that I've yet to utilize that is an option. You might be able to see if you find some free personal offline wiki of your own?
But, if you are not familiar with web design, this may not be for you. Then again, you could look up various free website templates (I could point out a few for you) and just edit n' go from there. However, using the offline web medium may be distracting, when you go about coding.
So, in the end, perhaps the best option is also the simplest: Text editor or spreadsheet program. Or heck, use them together! Put all of your character and story content into a text editor, and leave the timeline to the spreadsheet?
By the way, I have more yet to tell you about writing, but maybe you would like to solve this first? --Quiesce 16:21, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Oh, in all of that, I never shared "how"--only "what." Well, I put their name (full name if applicable) and any nickname they may have first. You could then put race/profession should you choose, but I put that into my first line, which will describe them briefly. Here is the best of my first-liners:

An outspoken extroverted Asuran warrior that goes against everything "normal" to the average Asura. Plump and food-loving, she flaunts an abnormal fondness for attractive male "bookah."

— Excerpt from "Biography of Silzza"

See, although it is rough, it sums up the character in one line, and details their race and profession, and even hints at one of her crafts! Cute, eh? After more character/story fluff lines, I go on to give each a line for 'Qualities,' 'Drawbacks,' 'Goals,' and finally 'How to beat the living crap out of this character.'
Its true, you want your character to suffer, because then your reader will suffer too. Perhaps they will hate you for it, but either way, you invoked emotion from your reader, and that is what you want. Also, the reader will feel better about that character after he or she achieves victory or cheats death or whatever negatives you throw at them.
And how do you figure out how to "beat the living crap out of them?" Why, take a gander at their drawbacks, and sometimes qualities. Then, you extort and warp them into malicious plots, twists, and hooks that ultimately hamper them from completing their goals. (Gosh, writers can be so deliciously evil, whilst having fun!) Here is Grimoilt's "crush" line: "Reveal his secrets; Disgrace him among his warband or others; Enforce solitude (even without his "spirit friend");" Its quick, its dirty, nothing is set in stone--ripe for editing.
Understand? Feel free to ask more! --Quiesce 16:50, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I do understand! I now have a structure and once again I have you to thank. Although I am rather versed in the ways of web design I prefer to keep it simple (at least in the beginning). I like the thought of a spreadsheet program, and I will most likely make use of it once I have written a more detailed bundle of text.
Your character stories continue to amaze me! There seems to be so much thought and soul behind every single line that you assign them and I can’t wait for you to publish your work. So once again, thank you. I hope you understand what a fantastic helper you are. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 09:35, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Icon template[edit]

Hey, I noticed that you're using my icon template for your biography answers; there's a biography template that you may find more efficient if you're planning on doing this for multiple characters. Cool page btw!-- Shew 14:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Shew! I tried Template:Biography-Icon at first, but the corresponding text to Snow Leopard Spirit didn’t generate, it just links to said spirit. I am not sure whether or not that is an intended action, but I am not confident enough to meddle in the template code anyway. Though I probably could have used that template for the other four... Hah! Well, thanks for the advice! — astronomy User Astronomy.png 14:40, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Woops! That was a mistake on my part. Fixed.-- Shew 14:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks mate! — astronomy User Astronomy.png 14:47, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Nicely done[edit]

I like the way you implemented that HoM title to your character/story. I was thinking about doing the same while back. Mediggo 06:19, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Well thank you mate! I myself am rather content with the character sections, but the overall user page design is much more displeasing I am afraid. — astronomy User Astronomy.png 11:44, 30 August 2011 (UTC)