File talk:Norn 01 render.jpg

If that's a norn scholar....frikkin' awesome! --Xu Davella 23:10, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

And now I can safely say I will be rolling 9 mains, instead of the current 8. - Infinite - talk 23:13, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

he's epic O.O and I thought norn would all be barrel-bellied-brawlers! --The Holy Dragons 23:18, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Norn don't get barrel-bellied they get taller upon consuming mass quantities of alcohol and meat, it's common knowledge--Elemental Phantom 23:59, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Norn. - 00:55, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Muscular casters... That's just stupid. What's next, spindly fighters? Too much WoW, not enough common sense. I am disappointed. Teddy Dan 10:37, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I am sure Arenanet is sorry for letting people have more choices than the standard twig caster and brute warrior. Those options are available for those who want them, there is no harm in doing this. Just because you like something your way does not mean it is "WoW" like and should not be in the game. Open your mind. - Giant Nuker 11:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Norn physiology is explained by the extreme conditions of the area they grow up in and the fact that they are mostly on their own like always. I sure as @#!*% would prefer brawn over brain for primary survival issues and then later on also add magic to my arsenal. Or maybe I am just biased towards THOSE ABS. - Infinite - talk 11:21, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't dislike it merely because it's "WoW-like". I dislike it because it's illogical. Based on typical fantasy lore, mastery of magic is not simply stumbled upon while out hunting deer and chopping wood. Much like combat mastery isn't stumbled upon while reading books in a library. If you have a muscular caster then it sucks at both casting and fighting because, to master anything worth mastering, you need to devote time to it. A lot of time. Years of time. In those years of devotion to one thing, your mastery of the other would inevitably suffer. That's why Guardians aren't Warriors or Elementalists. Their hybridized role is worse than both at what each of the two excels in and there's a logical reason for that. It's not a specialist. It's a supporter. Much like a muscular caster or a twiggy fighter could not possibly be specialists. They would be hybrids. It's simple logic. You want your caster to look like a Strongman competitor, that's fine. It's just illogical and, thus, stupid. Before telling me to open my mind, perhaps you should actually use yours.

@Infinite: The picture shown depicts a norn with a physique which, even with an incredibly high/fast metabolism, would require his whole life to maintain. Time not devoted to mastering magic. Based on typical fantasy lore, magic is mastered through the mental training rather than physical. To master either, one would have to allow the other to suffer. In so being, that norn caster would either not have that physique or not have mastered his arcane art. Teddy Dan 12:21, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Improving physical fitness directly improves mental capability, and it's a norn. I don't mean to repeat the obvious, but ANet is known for their not-so-typical approach to the fantasy genre. If they want to become a fire-slinging, bone-cursing magician while maintaining a physical appreciation to boot, then by damned they're the race that would do it. But you also have to consider that all of the other classes have to go through the same level of dedication towards their profession. Warriors have tactics; a major component is taught theoretically, Rangers would have been shown which plants to eat, and which ones would kill you. Just because a scholar happens to be big and hulking doesn't mean he knows how to use it offensively. --Xu Davella 13:27, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Also, character customization; you (very likely) don't *have* to make norn scholars this buff. - Infinite - talk 13:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

What I'm getting at is, while that norn caster would be devoting his time to practicing raining balls of fire or even so much as making snowmen with his mind rather than his hands, his firm physique would be softening. He wouldn't experience a sudden epiphany one day while out hunting and suddenly have completely mastered Static Field. Much the same as his body wouldn't suddenly bulk up while trying to stop a drop of water falling from an icicle with his mind. Again, these things require maintenance. Although, I do now see how it would be theoretically possible to balance the two. Even though a norn raised in the wilderness would have learned tactics/strategy through experience, since it would have little else to learn from, that doesn't mean the other races are similarly limited. Humans and charr especially would have studied written accounts of historical battles. I suppose it would be wrong to assume that very same studying couldn't be about the arcane arts. However, once one possesses the means to wield magic to conquer obstacles, one typically neglects physical power. Well, I'll leave it at that, then. The very idea of having the option bugged me, as it didn't make sense to me, but it's starting to. Underdeveloped fighters are still unforgivable, though. Teddy Dan 14:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

For the sake of argument, though, I'll just think of it as bulky casters use magic to bulk up and skinny fighters are blessed by some sort of ridiculous magic that allows them greater strength and endurance to lift, wear and use heavy things. Irrational, but it's a compromise. Teddy Dan 14:57, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Well it's completely put me off a main character of a Norn Mesmer, that's for sure. Sylvari Thief main it is. --Odal talk 15:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I just find it funny that none of you considered the fact that it very well could be a son of svanir... :) 75.90.147.12 16:22, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

It's not. Look at the symbol on his chest. Also, the face paint is in similar style of that of missy norn thief. - Infinite - talk 16:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Magical norn steriods? Thats... a good point I guess. :S --Xu Davella 17:53, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Hey, if I could study and use the arcane arts, magic roids without the negative side-effects would be my second favorite spell. First would be an intelligence modifier. I have a list. Don't laugh. In fact... Teddy Dan 19:50, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Also, this is not a caster because it is the male version of the armor of this armor: [1] - Giant Nuker 20:02, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

So we're just completely ignoring that, as a race, the norn are born and bred to be huge, hulking brutes and saying it's magic? 199.126.37.214 20:42, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Well maybe some asuras long long ago used magic to transform some humans in the northern shivers into what we know of as Norn. So maybe it is magic.--Elemental Phantom 22:34, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Good point Nuker: This appears to be a norn adventurer armor set. Very bare stomach for an adventurer, though... - Infinite - talk 23:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

@IP#199: Babies, no matter what race, are never born with six-packs and practically bulletproof pectorals. Teddy Dan 05:19, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

And beings, no matter what race, are never born with magical powers and the ability to shapeshift into animal forms. Does it really matter so much that this guy is muscled? A non-muscular Norn would be gangly and horrific :[2] 199.126.37.214 07:33, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Norn aren't born having mastered the shape shifting ability, so your comparison is still off. It is a common theme in typical fantasy lore that unborn/young children are blessed by some magical/divine force. Thus the "Chosen One" cliche. However, it is not typical fantasy lore for children to be born looking like an adult Lou Ferrigno. A non-muscular norn would likely look like a tall non-muscular human, considering regular muscular norn look just like tall muscular humans. Teddy Dan 08:30, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

This conversation is very intersting, but I think it should be moved to a userpage. I vote Dan's talk page since his looks way cool and stuff. =) --Xu Davella 10:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree that this should be moved, since we now know this picture no longer represents the norn caster this conversation is/was about. My talk page, though... From what I've experienced, talking on my own talk page(s) has raised many an unreasonable threat against me. Since I raised the issue, I should take responsibility through my own talk page. I'm just cautious. Once bitten... Teddy Dan 11:28, 5 May 2011 (UTC)